Posts posted by claude0001
8 hours ago, EskeRahn said:
I can not agree with you there.
You have every right not to do so. However I fail to see clearly where your comment actually disagrees with what I wrote. 🙂
Essentially, you write that, while the default OS (which received next to no support from FxTec) works so-so, the community OS's (which FxTec actively supports) do a better job already now. And -- if I understood you right -- you expect official Android updates to stop completely with the switch to the next-generation device, leaving community roms as the only way to run up-to-date software on the Pro1 (I, too, expect this to happen).
Isn't that at least quite close to the definition of an "enthusiast device"?
On 3/11/2021 at 5:33 PM, _DW_ said:
I decided to order one and give it a try 🙂
I have had mine for more than half a year now and am quite happy with it. I hope you will be too.
There is one more modification I made: I figured the "stand" feature is useless with the Pro1, as the keyboard mechanism allows to incline the screen anyways (e.g. for watching movies or having video conferences), so I glued the soft shell to the leather cover over the full area of the back.
You may or may not choose to do this, but, for me, it made the case more useful in everyday life.
19 hours ago, daniel.schaaaf said:
That may be, but as a customer, I couldn't care less. Sorry for those harsh words, they are not directed at you. It has been a year now, and I hate my Pro1. The only reason I still use it is that "moving" to another phone is a time consuming and cumbersome process. I felt betrayed by Motorola, when they screwed up their mods and dropped the whole thing. I feel even more betrayed by F(x)tec, because I expected them to be closer to the community and care more about us customers. F(x)tec makes me feel naive and stupid for having trusted them.
I can completely understand your point of view. You bought an expensive phone and expect it to just work out-of-the-box. Essentially, you compare the Pro1 to other top-range phones by major manufacturers. You have every right to do so. Unfortunately, it seems pretty clear to me that FxTec is (and always will be) unable provide a phone that is polished to the level "normal" customers (no offense!) will expect, given its price tag.
I think FxTec could have prevented that kind of disappointment by stating more openly that the Pro1 is (at least primarily) intended as a device for tech enthusiasts. Because that's what it is in my view: it is meant to be unlocked, it is meant to be rooted, it is meant to run on community-driven custom roms to truly shine. The practical absence of support for the default Android 9 OS, combined with the way FxTec always emphasised alternative OS's (Lineage, Sailfish, UbuntuTouch) for the Pro1 (and now the Pro1-X) tells me this is what they always had in mind.
People like me, who love to tinker with their phones, see the Pro1 very differently: I proudly run a rooted, Gapps-free LineageOS 16 with a Linux-Chroot on the phone. I was not driven there by the flaws of the stock Android 9 software: I never intended to use that in the first place! I always wanted to use the Pro1 like a full-featured computer, and I was ready to invest time and effort into setting it up that way. And -- while of course hoping for the best -- I always expected there would be a few bugs or rough edges I would just need to accept. Hence, no disappointment here.
That said, I have not encountered any real problems using my Pro1 as an everyday communication device. Maybe my expectations are just too low. 🙂
15 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:
What are the external dimensions with a Pro1 inside?
The primitive fake-'leather' ones I have been using are
- 156x79x21mm (83mm including the magnetic)
...BTW. Would be nice if some law required the sellers to call this so called "PUke-leather" for what it is: Plastic
It is significantly thicker than that.
With the Pro1 inside (but no credit cards), I measure outer dimensions of approximately 158 x 79 x 26 mm³ at the thickest part of the flap, but not including the belt and magnetic button. Including the latter it is more like 158 x 79 x 32 mm³ so you better have large pockets. I prefer work trousers anyway ... :-)
The material is either truly leather (as claimed in the ebay shop) or a very good fake. The look-and-feel is certainly not "cheap" in any way.
3 hours ago, _DW_ said:
@claude0001does that close fine? I mean a lot of the others need the credit card part removing from the case otherwise it doesn't close properly.
It closes fine and without effort. There is no strong tension on the small magnetic belt and it keeps the flap closed reliably.
However, the Pro1 being quite thick, it does not actually leave much space for many credit cards. I normally have only a photograph of my little son in there, and maybe one or two banknotes for buying coffee on the go.
20 hours ago, EskeRahn said:
I do recommend turning it around so it open like a Japanese book though, as this both protects the key AND have the flap away with the keyboard open, both handheld and on a table.
I did consider that, but finally decided against, as I did not want to cut a second (large) hole for the camera lenses and flash into the back. Considering my limited craftsman skills and tools available I estimated that would look like sh*t in the end. 😄
Also, I got quite used to using the open flap as a kind of palmrest: I often type with the phone sitting on my knees (like a small laptop). Then, having my palms rest on the flap secures the device from falling off my lap, even while not pressing any keys.
While an official flip case for the Pro1 would be nice, I do not think that it is strictly necessary.
I bought a random flip case for the Huawei P20 Pro (this one), and it is a perfect fit for the Pro1. I cut the required apertures for USB, headphone jack, power, shutter and volume buttons into the soft shell (not using fingerprint). Done.
28 minutes ago, Rob. S. said:
Sounds good, with the caveats you mentioned, of course – but I guess it's not an option on a non-rooted device 😉
You are right, of course. The solution above implies root access to your LineageOS. Also, since LineageOS 14.1, the scripts in /data/local/userinit.d/ are not executed automatically by the OS anymore: you have to install a 3rd-party App enabling that feature, e.g. runuserinit [F-Droid].
I cannot imagine using an un-rooted device (I actually refuse to do so), and tend to wrongly assume anyone using an alternative ROM thinks the same. Sorry for that.
1 hour ago, Rob. S. said:
At first, it seemed like the SD card would work after being formatted to ext4 on my laptop. But at some point it stopped being writeable for apps even after explicitly giving them write access. Apps didn't report not being allowed to write, they reported being unable to. Some tried forever until I killed them.
I too have an ext4 partition on my SD card. I do a lot of work from a chrooted (Debian) Linux OS that runs in parallel to Lineage (see here), syncing my data with my other Linux workstations. I therefore much prefer a Linux filesystem on the SD card.
Access of the ext4 partition from the Linux Chroot was never a problem. But like you, I ran into cryptic write access failures from Android apps, even when setting access permissions of the SD filesystem to "777". After some frustrating attempts to understand Android's safety mechanisms in a way that would allow me to properly grant access to the Apps, I gave up.
I now have the following startup script in /data/local/userinit.d :
#!/system/bin/sh # # Disable SELinux, it prevents write access to our EXT4-formatted SD-Card # partition. # /vendor/bin/setenforce 0 # # Re-mount data partition of external SD-card read-writable by all apps # mount -o remount,mask=0 /mnt/runtime/write/24a37a95-5429-4d2f-b98d-27fccea25e17
With that, write access to my SD-card's ext4 partition works from every App I have tried.
Of course you may want to think twice before setting SELinux to "permissive" at every boot. I think I can afford this as I very carefully select the Apps I install on the phone. But clearly, Android security is there for a reason ...
28 minutes ago, flx said:
Oh and yes I'm not a lawyer but as part of my Engineering training I've followed ITC laws courses and as parts of my jobs I regularly had to implement them (mostly GDPR but also some consumer laws). So yes I'm not an expert but please don't call me stupid.
And I have posted a lot of sources in my previous post with cases and analysis about Crowdfunding and consumer laws in Europe, I'm not just stating things out of my pocket.
I did not perceive that anyone was called stupid here.
@Rob. S. is right that keeping up the fantasy that all IGG backers could get a refund is not leading us anywhere.
Fxtec have stated that they paid the SoCs already in December. The same will be true for other components of the Pro1-X. I.e., the money from the backers has already gone up the chain of suppliers and Fxtec could not repay all backers even if they wanted so. Increasing pressure on Fxtec through massive refunding claims would simply lead to them needing to file bankruptcy -- with the result of everyone here getting neither their money nor their ordered phone ...
I repeat myself: Please try to cool down, everyone. 🙂
2 hours ago, 3zet said:
Maybe not the IT itself,
@3zet is right that the spectrum of possible choices in the poll omits one important option: many people (like myself) have jobs that require extensive use of computing without IT being their primary subject. Such people generally have good knowledge of IT and are fully capable of many administrative tasks without those things being formally part of their paid work.
On 2/23/2021 at 9:48 AM, 3zet said:
OTA updater crashed during 20210222 update. Most likely file was corrupted, after reboot it shows 20210222 version and no need to update. OS is not crashing at all. Should I be worried?
If you want to be sure, you should be able to re-flash the same update via sideload. Take care to re-flash also Gapps (or alike) after that in case you use those.
@flx is not totally wrong, actually.
It is true that crowdfunding pools like IndieGogo provide a kind of smoke-screen protecting small companies from customer rights they would otherwise need to fulfil. That is indeed something that should be discussed politically.
The question is: would small start-up companies be able to get a foothold without that kind of protection? After all, they try to compete in a market dominated by players with virtually unlimited funds. So, if crowdfunding in the present form were to be abolished, public interest would probably dictate to find other mechanisms allowing small companies to survivie in the shadow of the giants.
28 minutes ago, flx said:
Each of everyone backed this project for its own personal reason and that why there are laws and not "common goals" to live in society
But the Pro1-X backers *chose* to invest in a crowdfunding campaign instead of ordering a phone through the normal Fxtec web shop. Doing so they -- according to IGG rules -- provided money to Fxtec and, to a certain degree at least, freed them from the obligation to finally deliver the product. That is investing in a "common goal".
That also direct FxTec orders are cancelled and transferred to Pro1-X's now is a different story. However IGG investors knew (or should have known) they took additional risks from the start.
I really believe that this kind of discussion is fruitless. If we agree on the common goal of keeping keyboard phones alive, there is no choice but to back the (few) companies like Fxtec. However, there being no choice sadly does not mean there is a guarantee of success: not every transfer of money is a purchase whose object can be claimed.
Think of it like this: If I donate money to WWF to help them save the Amur leopard, and then the cat goes extinct nonetheless, would I get refunded? No, of course, I wouldn't. And I still donate every year.
"By contributing to a Campaign, Contributors are supporting an idea, project, or cause they care about and want to help make happen. Like anyone getting in on an early-stage project, Contributors accept the risk that the Campaign may experience changes, delays, and unforeseen challenges, or that a Campaign, and its Perks, might not come to fruition."
That seems pretty clear and honest to me. What are you complaining about?
22 minutes ago, flx said:
Here we have fxtec (EU/English company) selling products to EU consumers (and also non-EU off-course), what tool was used in the middle to do this sell does not matter at this point.
Again, being no lawyer, I doubt this.
Backers have a well-defined contract with IGG, see here.
IGG is a US company, so its contracts with customers are bound to US law only. IGG may choose to cooperate with international partners on a project, including partners from the EU or Britain (Fxtec). However that does not mean that backers have any direct contract with that partner.
I think the picture that Fxtec is "selling" the Pro1-X through IGG is wrong. They gather money though IGG in the hope that it will be sufficient to actually build the phone and then (and only then) deliver it. Providing that money is the essence of your contract with IGG (not with Fxtec).
18 minutes ago, flx said:
And with all of that we are all protected by EU consumer laws on remote orders. So even the 14 days return on reception applies if you don't like what you receive.
On IGG we pay a precise amount of money in exchange of a service or product with a delivery date. It's the definition of a contract like any other.
I am no lawyer (and am happy about that). However, what you write is the opposite of what IGG promises to their partners. They explicitly state that backer's money does not need to be refunded in case of a project failure.
Also, despite of being a proud European myself, I do not see how (or why) EU law should be applicable to a California company.
10 hours ago, namikiri said:
Hello. Is there any chance to get a refund? I've contacted the Fxtec team via IGG on February 11 but still got no response.
As you read from others, you will not get any official reponse on this forum.
IGG rules (as far as I understand them) allow Fxtec to either choose to refund backers or keep the money nontheless in the case their project (the Pro1-X) fails.
Now, they seem pretty serious about not letting the project fail, but modifiy the Pro1-X such that it can still be delivered. So (again, as far as I understand those things) the "project" (the Pro1-X) is still alive and well, and refunding (all) backers is not even in question.
As I have previously stated, I believe the Pro1-X will be the best keyboard phone on the market in spite of a less powerful SoC compared to the original Pro1. So, personally, I advise you to just wait for your device.
If you think the design change is such that you cannot support the project any longer, ask Fxtec to please (!) undo your backing of the project by sending your money back. I doubt that you can legally enforce a refund.
The downside is that you have to make a set of identical session profiles in advance. I mostly connect to the same server and I know that I very rarely need more than 3 connections simultaneously -- so it is a viable solution for now, but it is not perfect.
Ideally, the app would automatically spawn one more identical session if you activate the same profile a second time (say by tapping your home screen shortcut twice). However ConnectBot cannot do that -- in contrast to JuiceSSH as I understand.
On the N900 one could just spawn an unlimited number of terminals via the Fn-Ctrl-x shortcut, and Maemo's UI made switching between the windows so convenient ... ah, the good old times ...
14 hours ago, claude0001 said:
I have read suggestions to simply set up two (or more) distinct session-profiles to the same host in ConnectBot. However, that does not seem to work ...
Turns out I just underestimated ConnectBot! It can indeed open multiple sessions at once, and even makes switching between them really simple: one just needs to swipe the screen to left or right to jump between open terminal windows. Awsome but (seemingly) undocumented feature.
I now made three shortcuts to my server, so I can comfortably open up to three different terminal sessions to it.
JuiceSSH seems nice, but unfortunately it is not FOSS, so I do not want to use it. I am a little picky about that. Thanks anyway!
13 hours ago, claude0001 said:
Of course I know that I can create detached sessions on the remote host with the 'screen' command. However, that is not what I want.
I should probably have said that I do have a GNU/Linux running in a Chroot that allows me to start a full X11-desktop if I really need it.
However for simple CLI-work, I want to have a lightweight Android app around that allows me to spawn an SSH session via a shortcut on my homescreen with a single tap (I use PSK authentication).
Up to now I thought termux was too heavy for that purpose and that it would simply duplicate features my Chroot provides anyway. Maybe I should give it a try after all, thanks for the suggestion.
As probably many do, I regularly use my Pro1 for logging into remote Un*x machines via SSH. I use ConnectBot for that purpose and am in principle quite happy with it.
Sometimes, however, I would like to open several SSH sessions to the same remote host in parallel. Of course I know that I can create detached sessions on the remote host with the 'screen' command. However, that is not what I want. Ideally, I would like the app to spawn several terminal instances side-by-side, so I can switch between them from the home screen. Essentially, I want the equivalent of multiple SSH sessions running in distinct xterms. Alternatively, a concept of "tabs" (or alike) within the app would be acceptable too. I should say that for such a security-critical task as SSH-logins, I accept only FLOSS software.
I find myself unable to achieve that with ConnectBot (or its derivatives) and also have not found any alternative app which explicitly features this possibility. I have read suggestions to simply set up two (or more) distinct session-profiles to the same host in ConnectBot. However, that does not seem to work: as soon as I open the second ConnectBot session, the first one somehow disappears in the background, and can be accessed only after I close the later one ...
in Pro1 - Thoughts & questions
Posted · Edited by claude0001
Yes, that is exactly what I mean.
The way how FxTec pushed alternative OS development since the development phase (remember all the early videos showing Sailfish and Ubuntu running on pre-production units) tells me they at least suspected that keeping their official Android software polished and up-to-date would get difficult.
Still, they kept up the image of a "standard" high-end consumer device that just-works (tm) out-of the box and receives its OTAs for a few years, without users having to care about these things. Like an iPhone or so.
With the Pro1-X, they now honestly (and officially) admit how much they rely on community-developed OS's, mainlining the kernel, and so on. Had they done this earlier, experiences like that of the OP could have been prevented (or at least damped).