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fxtec5

Alternative to wireless charging

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As we are all to aware, the pro1 does not support wireless charging. What do you guys use for charging?

I am working on a laser cut stand inspired by my tylt Qi charger with the intention of adding a magnetic breakaway charger in the base of it.

I am investigating the readily available usb-c magnetic breakaway adapters. Currently I am using one from ebay which supports quick charge but not data transfer. Interestingly, the device that actually arrived was branded "Baseus" and looks similar to the original kickstarter by the same name, but uses a different layout of the contacts. The pictures in the listing shows a 5 pin arrangement, but the device that arrived has a 6 pin arrangement. I ordered the one labeled "for other ucsb-c device" and it fast charges both from the stock charger and a RAVPower 61w usb-c charger.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/401933899627

So far it seems to work fine, but is an expensive solution since it means that all of my charging spots need a $15 adapter in addition to a usb-c capable charger.

 

20200102_152847.jpg

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11 minutes ago, fxtec5 said:

As we are all to aware, the pro1 does not support wireless charging. What do you guys use for charging?

I am working on a laser cut stand inspired by my tylt Qi charger with the intention of adding a magnetic breakaway charger in the base of it.

I am investigating the readily available usb-c magnetic breakaway adapters. Currently I am using one from ebay which supports quick charge but not data transfer. Interestingly, the device that actually arrived was branded "Baseus" and looks similar to the original kickstarter by the same name, but uses a different layout of the contacts. The pictures in the listing shows a 5 pin arrangement, but the device that arrived has a 6 pin arrangement. I ordered the one labeled "for other ucsb-c device" and it fast charges both from the stock charger and a RAVPower 61w usb-c charger.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/401933899627

So far it seems to work fine, but is an expensive solution since it means that all of my charging spots need a $15 adapter in addition to a usb-c capable charger.

There are a lot of cheap(er) cables available if you need charge only. But if you want data too, it is more limited.

Also note that most extends quite a bit, actually adding a risk for the USB-port when not charging. Especially if used without a case. (A case also protects the protruding plug somewhat)

I have not found any very tight either. @kashif has reported here that some that protrudes less are available in Australia.

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Considering that the Pro1 has a reported battery life of well over 18 hours of pure torture @netman I plan to use a cord at night. I sleep, it sleeps, we both recharge. Even on my old tired overworked Droid 4 I can generally make it all day and charge at night. I don't foresee a use case scenario where conventional cord charging will be a problem.

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6 minutes ago, silversolver said:

Considering that the Pro1 has a reported battery life of well over 18 hours of pure torture @netman I plan to use a cord at night. I sleep, it sleeps, we both recharge. Even on my old tired overworked Droid 4 I can generally make it all day and charge at night. I don't foresee a use case scenario where conventional cord charging will be a problem.

I have since done it worse:

image.thumb.png.5cb307e582c3c4ca695dc22eef667786.pngimage.thumb.png.42b68a1a763301c6cfc2cc839e443b8c.png

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7 minutes ago, netman said:

I have since done it worse:

image.thumb.png.5cb307e582c3c4ca695dc22eef667786.pngimage.thumb.png.42b68a1a763301c6cfc2cc839e443b8c.png

24h runtime and 7.5h screen time? That's a battery I won't generally get below 50%. Well done, F(x)tec!

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2 hours ago, silversolver said:

Considering that the Pro1 has a reported battery life of well over 18 hours of pure torture @netman I plan to use a cord at night. I sleep, it sleeps, we both recharge. Even on my old tired overworked Droid 4 I can generally make it all day and charge at night. I don't foresee a use case scenario where conventional cord charging will be a problem.

I think leaving it to charge overnight is not the best thing because over charging the phone kills battery life in long term.

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1 hour ago, kashif said:

I think leaving it to charge overnight is not the best thing because over charging the phone kills battery life in long term.

Overcharging a li-ion battery is catastrophic usually, but phone will stop charging when it's full. It can save the battery a bit to stay below 100% tho, but not knowing when a day will be like the pictures I posted I like to have it fully charged when i start the day 😄.

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5 minutes ago, netman said:

Overcharging a li-ion battery is catastrophic usually, but phone will stop charging when it's full. It can save the battery a bit to stay below 100% tho, but not knowing when a day will be like the pictures I posted I like to have it fully charged when i start the day 😄.

Ive been told by my phone repair guy that while its said that phones stop charging after charge full, but every phone actually still do keep charging and it heats and swells battery

i had that happened to my E7 and when he showed me the battery it was really swelled

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5 minutes ago, netman said:

Overcharging a li-ion battery is catastrophic usually, but phone will stop charging when it's full. It can save the battery a bit to stay below 100% tho, but not knowing when a day will be like the pictures I posted I like to have it fully charged when i start the day 😄.

Sony and Apple are using "Adaptive Charging" technology and it is working very well on my Xperia XZ1 Compact. The phone will learn your usage over time and estimate the time you wake up. Also, you can turn it off (permanently or single day) any time you want. It would be great feature for Pro1 also.

xperia-xz1-08-e1j-battery-care-104e586fa

Smarter charging cycles
Leaving a fully-charged battery plugged in can damage it. Battery Care charges your phone to 90%, waits, then charges to 100% just before your wake-up time.

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I use the app "Battery charge limit" from XDA, which allows you to limit the battery percentage. I usually set it to 85% except if I'm going for holidays or so.

I think it could already work with the Pro1, but maybe we need to wait (and ask) for the support.

 

According to the magnetic chargers: I use a couple of mobile devices for work and have not yet found a reliable charger that does also charge quickly. And I'm not even talking about quickcharge or data transfer. They all are flimsy, have a stupid LED (and some further electronics to prevent burning them out) or break after a couple of uses.

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I think this discussion is as old as li-ion batteries in phones. It was a common sense habit to discharge completely and then recharge fully anything with Ni-Mh batteries inside, i.e. early mobile phones among other things. With the dawn of li-ion batteries people were told this habit no longer makes sense, and there's even some who claim it's harmful. 

I have that habit baked into my phone usage patterns so deeply, that even now I still do it that way. If my phone has a few % battery left in it in the evening, I just drain it with a game or some video, and then leave it to charge overnight (in flight mode if it's next to my bed). I can't tell You how many phones I went through since the last one that had a Ni-Mh battery, but what I can say for sure is that none of my phones' battery lives have been negatively impacted by this habit. My 3+ year old Mi Max still lasts as much as on day one, some older devices I still have are also ok. I have an 11 year old Dell laptop with it's original battery that still lasts a 2-3 hours, and it has been used this way (if on battery, discharge so that OS switches off, recharge fully) as well most of the time.

Of course battery performance will degrade overtime but I don't buy the story about this habit damaging them. The electronics in any phone prevents it from "deep discharge", where the voltage drops below technically safe level for a given battery. So unless You discharge fully and leave the phone in a drawer like that for a month, You're probably ok. 

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8 hours ago, silversolver said:

24h runtime and 7.5h screen time? That's a battery I won't generally get below 50%. Well done, F(x)tec!

Not to mention the battery so easily replaceable that it can even be swapped out during a marathon session if it was that critical.

@silversolver  I still get about two days on my D4, BUT I never keep it trickling on the charger after a full charge, and I replace the battery about every 18 months.  They are so inexpensive and so easy to swap I figure why not?! Lol.  Of course the design of the D3 was even better as one could practically hot swap those! 😉

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It is MUCH more important NOT to use quick/fast charging in daily usage. Use an old say 0.5A charger, or a USB output from a pc or radio. It will be able to charge the Pro1 while we sleep, but does it slowly, and thus with marginally heating, and that really matters for the overall battery life.

Use the quick/fast charging when in need only. It is like eating junk food. Occasional usage is not an issue - but don't do it every day. I have a lot on charging on my blog, e.g. start here

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6 hours ago, kashif said:

Ive been told by my phone repair guy that while its said that phones stop charging after charge full, but every phone actually still do keep charging and it heats and swells battery

Maybe when they used NiMh batteries, it was true... but Li-Ion batteries are really sensitive of deep-discharge and overcharge. They are even dangerous in those circumstances and may be later on...

It has a defined maximal charging voltage depending of chemicals but let's say 4.2V

The charging method should look like this:
- Constant current mode (while the specified voltage level has not reached)
- Constant voltage mode (maybe it starts around 80% of charge)

Constant voltage charging stops when current goes below a specified level.

There are charger ICs which manage this also without the need of any interaction with other parts of the electronics.

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4 hours ago, VaZso said:

The charging method should look like this:

- Constant current mode (while the specified voltage level has not reached)
- Constant voltage mode (maybe it starts around 80% of charge)

The keyword above is should!  I have seen numerous phones, including the one I'm using now, that still allow small amounts of current to the battery after a full charge.  Many don't just turn off completely (as they should).  This can be partially due to using the charger as a power supply to keep the phone from draining the battery, but in real life it happens.

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I'll preface this by copying the warning on the page I'm linking:

Quote

ACC manipulates Android low level (kernel) parameters which control the charging circuitry. The author assumes no responsibility under anything that might break due to the use/misuse of this software. By choosing to use/misuse ACC, you agree to do so at your own risk!

So with that out of the way, has anybody tried https://github.com/Magisk-Modules-Repo/acc

It seems to have a bunch of functions to extend battery life, but it does require root via Magisk. One specific function that seems to work on a very limited number of devices is to limit the charging current via applyOnPlug=usb/current_max:MICRO_AMPS . 

This seems to accomplish what most people here would want, without needing to use a specific charger.

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On 1/4/2020 at 12:46 PM, Zamasu said:

I'll preface this by copying the warning on the page I'm linking:

So with that out of the way, has anybody tried https://github.com/Magisk-Modules-Repo/acc

It seems to have a bunch of functions to extend battery life, but it does require root via Magisk. One specific function that seems to work on a very limited number of devices is to limit the charging current via applyOnPlug=usb/current_max:MICRO_AMPS . 

This seems to accomplish what most people here would want, without needing to use a specific charger.

I can never work out how to download and install apps from github. It's probably simple and idiot proof, but you know what they say about anything that's idiot proof. 😝

Just ordered one of these.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324023691195

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49 minutes ago, MickH said:

I can never work out how to download and install apps from github. It's probably simple and idiot proof, but you know what they say about anything that's idiot proof. 😝

Just ordered one of these.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324023691195

I have looked at that type as well, but I fear it will be so thick/wide you can not place it flat on a table.... I know this is an issue with the round connectors...
ADD: Unless you use it in a case, that lifts it a few millimetres.

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4 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

I have looked at that one as well, but I fear it will be so thick/wide you can not place it flat on a table.... I know this is an issue with the round connectors...

I'm actually using one of the round connectors in the Pro1 and it sits fine on a table when connected. The MacBook Pro is quite a thin laptop (probably not as slim as the Pro1), I'll post an update when the connector arrives.

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5 minutes ago, MickH said:

I'm actually using one of the round connectors in the Pro1 and it sits fine on a table when connected. The MacBook Pro is quite a thin laptop (probably not as slim as the Pro1), I'll post an update when the connector arrives.

Ah I see in the other thread that you are using it with a case. Yes then it will almost certainly work, as this adds a few millimetres.

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So, not to sound like Grandpa, but how on earth does wireless charging help anyone and why is it considered desirable under any circumstances? I see absolutely no advantage to it at all, and some pretty serious drawbacks in efficiency and longevity, to say nothing of the high probability of massive additional EMR exposure at some point. What is it about wireless charging that makes some of you sad that the Clack doesn't do it, and what does it allow you to do better than what you could do without it? The adapter pad seems to be the worst of all worlds, in that it has all the drawbacks, but loses the one minor advantage I see, which is keeping the USB port available for other tasks (although USB-C can definitely charge and deliver data simultaneously with the correct adapter.)

So what then is the motivation for any of this?

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4 hours ago, silversolver said:

So what then is the motivation for any of this?

Because it sounds and looks cool, and we all know style is so much more important than function!  😉  Look ma no wires!  😁

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4 hours ago, silversolver said:

So, not to sound like Grandpa, but how on earth does wireless charging help anyone and why is it considered desirable under any circumstances? I see absolutely no advantage to it at all, and some pretty serious drawbacks in efficiency and longevity, to say nothing of the high probability of massive additional EMR exposure at some point. What is it about wireless charging that makes some of you sad that the Clack doesn't do it, and what does it allow you to do better than what you could do without it? The adapter pad seems to be the worst of all worlds, in that it has all the drawbacks, but loses the one minor advantage I see, which is keeping the USB port available for other tasks (although USB-C can definitely charge and deliver data simultaneously with the correct adapter.)

So what then is the motivation for any of this?

Well there is reduced tear to the usb port. But the long shot might again be in advantage to the manufacturing. Cheaper water proofed devices. Just one slab glued together. No ports at all. No repairability at all. The same reasons they prefer a device without a keyboard. It is again something big marketing campaigns try to force into our habits.
Luckily our planet has inexhaustible resources for battery, so it does not matter that it literally fries yours ... Oh wait!

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6 hours ago, silversolver said:

So, not to sound like Grandpa, but how on earth does wireless charging help anyone and why is it considered desirable under any circumstances? I see absolutely no advantage to it at all, and some pretty serious drawbacks in efficiency and longevity, to say nothing of the high probability of massive additional EMR exposure at some point. What is it about wireless charging that makes some of you sad that the Clack doesn't do it, and what does it allow you to do better than what you could do without it? The adapter pad seems to be the worst of all worlds, in that it has all the drawbacks, but loses the one minor advantage I see, which is keeping the USB port available for other tasks (although USB-C can definitely charge and deliver data simultaneously with the correct adapter.)

So what then is the motivation for any of this?

The motivation: Convenience and less tear on the plug. Especially in a car a magnetic holder with wireless charging is really convenient.

But it sure has its prices too, as it heats everything, and the worst possible scenario for a battery is charging while heated. So in reality we should avoid it on any device that does not have an easy user replaceable battery. Everything are sait to be held together by screws, but we are yet to see how easy it actually is to swap a battery.
This is also why fast charging should not be used in everyday usage. I tried to rant a bit on the whole thing here.

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Back on magnetic cables, this arrived yesterday.

https://amazon.com/gp/product/B07WRPXXNW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It is the thinnest adapter I could find in terms of how far it extends past the back of the phone.  Here are some quick shots with a not great camera (apologies for quality).  The hardest one to make out is my attempt to get a level shot over the back of the Pro 1 to see there is just the tiniest bump poking up. The straight on shot from the bottom almost makes it look like it is even with the back and it may be even with the highest elevation of the back (There is an abrupt slope down ti the edges all around the back of the Pro 1. By the way, that slope is why, viewed from the back, there seems to be more adapter neck sticking up.

 

So not bad.  And because of the back slope, it does not actually hit the ground when you set it down, unlike my round ones earlier.  The only thing I'm not completely thrilled with is that the edges around the adapter are a little sharp making m wonder if something could snag on it going in and out of the pocket, although, so far it has shown no tendency to do that.

I think I'll stick with this one.  A magnetic adapter is important to me because it not only saves wear and tear on the port, it keeps lint out of the port while traveling in my pocket.  😉

bottom.jpg

fromback.jpg

fromside.jpg

peekoverback.jpg

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