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Erik

On the production status and delivery

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12 hours ago, Hook said:

Well, if the third batch is shipping this week, there are only 7 weeks and that's the third week in January,

I guess the production will stop for a couple of weeks in January because of the Chinese New Year, so it's probably more realistic to target on February for the last pre-orders. The production of regular orders will start after that. 

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1 hour ago, raphaelcno said:

I guess the production will stop for a couple of weeks in January because of the Chinese New Year, so it's probably more realistic to target on February for the last pre-orders. The production of regular orders will start after that. 

I was already prepared to receive the device in February, because there is no way they could possibly ship all of them before Christmas, despite telling people otherwise. And if for some reason I'm not in the 3rd batch I will request a refund without thinking, because it's starting to get annoying (and I'm very patient by nature)

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2 hours ago, netman said:

keep contact cleaner far away from lcd screens is my additional advice on this (it can get between the screen and backlight (and the layers of the backlight itself) and make those all ugly).

I used it on a lcd screen once had about 20 lines that no longer worked after, shorted the circuit inside the screen was porous lol.  You don't have to worry about porous screens on phones ofc they expect water on them (rain drops)

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2 hours ago, netman said:

Oh shit.. also microphones!! I remember a certain disaster talking about this xD. Had to replace screen and a microphone and the front "glass" (polycarbonate, actual glass would have lived probably).

Well, guys, stop that! 😄  I really apreciate all of your advices, but going further at this speed it won´t last a long time to remember me putting all screws to a magnet - before losing them!! 😄 😄

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I just read the update that US orders are being sent internationally with duty unpaid.

My understanding from the beginning is that fxtec planned to pay the duty, by importing them into the US in batches, then shipping to customers domestically.

Is this a mistake in Erik's post, were they actually sent duty prepaid?  I really hope so. Or are Americans now expected to pay an additional cost?

(I realize the sales tax is being refunded, but that is irrelevant, that money would have gone to the state (not fxtec) and we are still legally required (at least in California) to submit the sales tax for stuff we obught online that wasnt already taxed.)

 

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I have to say, I'm really surprised they didn't send a single phone to all remote warehouses many months ago, to work out the bugs in the shipping process (such as customs issues).  Good lesson for the next version of the phone and for other start-ups.

Edited by david

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36 minutes ago, Craig said:

I just read the update that US orders are being sent internationally with duty unpaid.

My understanding from the beginning is that fxtec planned to pay the duty, by importing them into the US in batches, then shipping to customers domestically.

Is this a mistake in Erik's post, were they actually sent duty prepaid?  I really hope so. Or are Americans now expected to pay an additional cost?

(I realize the sales tax is being refunded, but that is irrelevant, that money would have gone to the state (not fxtec) and we are still legally required (at least in California) to submit the sales tax for stuff we obught online that wasnt already taxed.)

 

He said you will need to pay the additional cost.  But they are going to pay you back the money.

 

@Erik "we will, of course, refund the state sales tax that our US customers had to pay for "

Edited by _DW_
Adding eriks comment
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37 minutes ago, Craig said:

I just read the update that US orders are being sent internationally with duty unpaid.

My understanding from the beginning is that fxtec planned to pay the duty, by importing them into the US in batches, then shipping to customers domestically.

Is this a mistake in Erik's post, were they actually sent duty prepaid?  I really hope so. Or are Americans now expected to pay an additional cost?

(I realize the sales tax is being refunded, but that is irrelevant, that money would have gone to the state (not fxtec) and we are still legally required (at least in California) to submit the sales tax for stuff we obught online that wasnt already taxed.)

 

I'll preface this by saying that I know nothing about US import costs. Why is it irrelevant that F(x)tec will refund the sales tax? How I read the situation is that you'll need to pay some sort of sales tax to get the device, then you'll ask for a refund to F(x)tec for those costs, and then F(x)tec pays you? In that situation the sales tax is still paid, so legally it's all right, and you didn't need to pay anything in the end.

In the previous situation F(x)tec prepaid the sales tax, so you didn't need to pay anything. Same results?

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You're both missing the point.   The sales tax they collected was in addition to the base price, and only collected for US orders.  They are refunding that, but that isn't their money anyway, that's the states money.   The post suggests we now have to pay import duty, something fxtec was going to pay for before.  It's unrelated to the sales tax.   They didn't imply they're going to refund us for the import duty, but if that's the case, then what I'm saying is a non-issue (although still would have been easier for the customer if fxtec had shipped it  duty prepaid).

Edited by Craig
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Think of it this way.  If you lived in a state with no sales tax (Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, Oregon), fxtec didn't collect anything to refund.  But you now will have to pay import duty, a completely new cost.

Edited by Craig
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I dont know why Fx Tec need to refund a tax applied by US customs.

it will be a loss for FX Tec.

cant we pay a bit more to help FX Tec?

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33 minutes ago, Craig said:

Think of it this way.  If you lived in a state with no sales tax (Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, Oregon), fxtec didn't collect anything to refund.  But you now will have to pay import duty, a completely new cost.

I agree with you.  Refunding sales tax that we are still ultimately responsible for whether FX refunds it to us or not to make us feel better or something about now having to pay even more to get the phones delivered does anything but make me feel better about the process.  

 

In honor of the Star Wars Saga conclusion this month....

Darth Vader:  "I'm altering the deal.  Pray I don't alter it any further"

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1 hour ago, kashif said:

I dont know why Fx Tec need to refund a tax applied by US customs.

it will be a loss for FX Tec.

cant we pay a bit more to help FX Tec?

I'm also wondering if there is a way for us to help paying for the increased shipping cost.
I used my IGG code and would be very fine with returning the discount.

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2 hours ago, Craig said:

They didn't imply they're going to refund us for the import duty,

I think they did. Just that now they're refunding the portion you paid for sales tax because you're getting extra costs for the import costs. Doesn't necessarily mean they didn't pay the sales tax or anything. Then again, I'm not sure about how US customs work, I was conflating them before. Honestly, my input here is probably not that useful.

2 hours ago, kashif said:

I dont know why Fx Tec need to refund a tax applied by US customs.

it will be a loss for FX Tec.

cant we pay a bit more to help FX Tec?

The terms of the sale were probably something along the lines of not having to pay those customs costs. And it's also just a feel-good move, after all the delays I'm sure there are some people that wouldn't absolutely hate getting extra costs like that. You could probably refuse the refund for those costs if you contact them, but I think it's a smart move to default to refunding for those costs like they did.

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33 minutes ago, Zamasu said:

I'm not sure about how US customs work

I think it's US Sales Tax that you're not sure how works.  But unless you live there, why should you?  

 

But incase you're curious.... Every state in the US can have sales tax if they want.  The rate varies from zero to ~10% in some states.    FxTec collected this from US customers to pay the state for us, so early preorders paid $649+tax, the tax amount shown as a separate line item on our invoice.  (Now 699+tax).  FxTec submits the collected tax to the state we are resident of on our behalf, otherwise we are supposed to do it ourselves.

This has nothing to do with duty / import taxes, which are something much more complicated and done at a national level, different goods taxed at different rates, depends where it comes from, etc, crazy rules.   Average American doesn't have to deal with this unless they order something direct from overseas, in which case if the seller doesn't send it duty prepaid, then the shipping company pays it and charges you for it usually, but not necessarily at the best rate.  [Also some sketchy sellers may mark things as gifts or samples that arent subject to duty, etc.]

The only correlation to state sales tax is now Fxtec doesn't have to collect it since they're shipping from overseas.  They didn't necessarily have to do it before, as some states only require out-of-state companies to collect sales tax if after they do certain amount of business in the state (i.e. I think California is 1/2 million dollars), but it seemed like Fxtec were preparing to handle it like big company who collects tax everywhere with the assumption of high volume sales.

It would not make sense to refund the amount they paid in state sales tax as a gesture to pay the import duty, as some people didnt pay any sales tax, and some people paid $50.  It would make more sense, if they wanted to do something like that, to give each person a fixed amount, not give people in high tax states more than people in low/no tax states.  

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10% Import Tariff on Cell Phones imported from China into the U.S.A. goes into affect December 15, 2019

https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/press-releases/2019/august/ustr-announces-next-steps-proposed#

 

According to FedEx (see below), that additional 10% Tariff will increase the current 5% Chinese import Tariff Rate to 15%

 

I pre-ordered February 28th (#593X) at "$686.32 (includes $37.32 VAT)"

I paid that pre-order July 31 at "$686.32 + $10.58 Shipping = $696.90 (includes $37.90 State Tax)"

 

Now, apparently, In order to take delivery of the Phone, an additional $105 (Import Duty/Tax/Tariff), plus whatever surcharge FedEx adds for their collection service, will be required.

 

Is this correct?

 

... since Erik stated that FXtec is direct shipping phones to USA buyers and that said US buyers will now be responsible for payment of the Import Duty/Tax/Tariff.

===

FedEx:

Regulatory Alert: China – U.S. Tariff Actions September 2019

September 10, 2019

BACKGROUND

In August of 2017, the U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) commenced an investigation under Section 301 of the Trade Act of 1974 into the Chinese government’s acts, policies and practices related to technology transfer, intellectual property and innovation.

In a memorandum signed in March of 2018, the president directed the USTR to take a range of actions in response to China’s acts and practices. The USTR has proposed to utilize additional tariffs on certain products of China. There have been four tranches (lists) of tariffs implemented upon China-origin goods thus far:

  • The first list of tariffs was implemented on July 6, 2018, and impacts 818 Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States (HTSUS) subheadings at a rate of 25%.

  • The second list of tariffs was implemented on August 23, 2018, and impacts 279 HTSUS subheadings at a rate of 25%.

  • The third list of tariffs was implemented on September 24, 2018, and impacted 5,745 HTSUS subheadings at the initial rate of 10%. The tariff rate was increased to 25% effective May 10, 2019.

  • The fourth list of tariffs was announced by the USTR on August 13, 2019, and implemented September 1, 2019 with the total impacted articles divided into two lists: 4A and 4B. List 4A became effective on September 1, 2019 and list 4B is scheduled to commence on December 15, 2019. The tariff rate announced at that time was 10%.

    WHAT HAS CHANGED?

    After the fourth list of tariffs on China products was announced by the USTR on August 13, 2019, China announced on August 23, 2019 that it would impose tariffs targeting $75 billion of U.S. products in two increments. The first increment of tariff actions on U.S. goods was effective on September 1, 2019. The second increment will occur on December 15, 2019.

    The U.S. then raised the tariff rates on $550 billion worth of Chinese imports on August 23, 2019 with these actions:

    • For the 25% tariffs on approximately $250 billion worth of articles, the tariff rate will be increased to 30% effective October 1, 2019.

    • For the 10% tariffs on approximately $300 billion worth of articles covered in the fourth list announced August 13, 2019, the tariffs will be increased to 15% effective on the scheduled dates for Lists 4A (September 1, 2019) and 4B (December 15, 2019).

 

RegAlert_20_015_China_U_S_Tariff_Actions_September_2019_1816927747.pdf

Edited by sasha
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I would imagine this is based on a wholesale price, not its retail selling price, but it's hard to say. It might be applied to the wholesale price when a reseller is importing them, and the retail price when buying direct.

All I can say for certain is that the government of China is evil, and anything that incentivises building things elsewhere is a net good for humanity (although arguably bad for the Chinese people) and I'm willing to pay a little extra to facilitate that. I can also see where F(x)tec got backed into a corner by timing on this one and found themselves facing significantly higher import duties than initially expected.

It's not good news in my book, but it doesn't change a great deal.

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If it's really going up from 5% to 15% in another 9 days, that would be a reason to get as many phones into the states ASAP!  I hope FxTec is aware of that date, regardless of who ends up paying it...

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FXtec is surely aware, as they export from China and these tariffs were announced in August - same time everyone here was paying their pre-order invoices. If their product had shipped in a timely manner, pre-orders would not have been affected by the US tariff increase one week from today.

Is it coincidence that US orders are now being shipped direct, so the buyer must now pay the Import Duty/Tax/Tariff, while our "Sales Tax" is being refunded? The current 5% import duty rate is roughly equivalent to most state tax rates, so the buyer breaks even.

After December 15, the buyer will have to pay an additional $105+ to receive the phone from FedEx. Net additional cost will be ~$70 after refund of "state sales tax" from FXtec. But that State Sales Tax still needs to be paid, c.f. Wayfair v. South Dakota. So Net additional cost to US buyers is still $105+ .

When FXtec was importing in bulk, then distributing once inside the continental US, FXtec handled all the Customs and Import Tax. Now that they are shipping direct, the import tax is being shifted onto the buyer.

Some may say, 'another $100 to get a qwerty phone? no problem' ...

But this additional charge needs to be acknowledged by the manufacturer. Because: Informed Consent. As buyers, we need to know of additional charges that will be levied BEFORE the phone ships. We need to have the option of cancelling BEFORE the phone ships. We need to know that we have to fork out ANOTHER $105 to [finally] take delivery, BEFORE the phone ships.

We had a poll asking who was going to cancel if their order was not received by Xmas.

Now - who will cancel knowing that they have to pay an additional $105+ to take delivery?

 

And still, I am asking if this is the case with the tariffs and surcharge. I suspect it is. But it needs to be made CLEAR, so US buyers can make an Informed Decision.

 

Edited by sasha
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Another $100 to Uncle Sam is definitely not going to talk me out of my Pro1. It might talk me out of my second one, or at least into waiting a little longer. I understand about informed consent; the problem is that no one expected manufacturing to take as long as it did. That is what it is, and no one can change it at this point. $100 doesn't stand between me and anything I truly wish to have at this point. I'm not rich but I have enough to get what I need and some of what I desire. The Pro1 is definitely on my "desire intensely" list. :)

Edited by silversolver
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Yes, I understand the production and shipping issues/delays.

At this point, it is an issue of TRANSPARENCY.

 

I suspect FXtec knows of the imminent increase in import cost and that is why they are modifying their shipping model, in order to off-load the extra expense onto the buyers.

It will be a rude surprise to hear from FedEx that we must fork over a C-note to take delivery, after FINALLY receiveing a Tracking Number.

 

TRANSPARENCY.

 

This is becoming a Case Study in how NOT to launch.

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