GeekOnTheHill
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Posts posted by GeekOnTheHill
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25 minutes ago, Hook said:
I think the others above have been making this point, but while I understand this thinking (I also remember JFK), I think smartphones have hit the same CPU plateau computers hit in the mid 2000s. Succeeding generations of chips get faster on the benchmarks, but in real life, performance isn't getting that much better and, in fact, battery consumption may be getting worse for what little performance benefit you get. I don't think there is a lot that an 835 SD CPU and 6 Gb won't be able to handle for some time to come. For the same reason, I don't even care if I have the latest version of Android. You aren't getting major innovations between versions. My going on 6 Year old Samsung tablet does fine performance wise running on Android 7 via Lineage OS and even gets the latest security patches.
I like LineageOS and installed several builds of it on the V20 I used for navigation, but none of them did everything I needed it to do. 17 ran the nav and mapping programs fine, but not the BT. 16 had problems with the GPS. And none of them worked the fingerprint scanner.
I could have hacked them, I suppose; but I was actually looking for a solution more than a hobby at the moment. So I wound up flashing stock Nougat back onto it, taking the OTA to Oreo, and removing as much AT&T and LG crapware as I could with ADB short of rooting the phone again.
If I replace the first V20, it will probably become a hobby platform. It's still a capable phone save for the tired GPS. The problem is the demands I'm placing on it, not the phone itself.
Richard
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10 minutes ago, CornholioGSM said:
...maybe i know where is problem...it is not about cpu/chipset performance...it is about phone price vs hw specs. BUT...i mean that 90% of users cannot see any difference between qc 835 and 855 with 6GB RAM...maybe it is visible on antutu and maybe will be littlebit less battery consumption...but thats all. On 835 you can still play latest games, record 4k videos atc.
QUESTION IS...for what is needed really last chipset with XYZ RAM? 95% of users have phone only for facebuk, mesenger, wacap and maybe for camera...thats all.
...AND security ?...yesss that is user problem
SOO ony VISIBLE problem is fx1 price vs latest hardware...but you will have KEYBOARD PHONE!!!
btw...i have at home PC with old 2gen i7 2600K (approx 8years old processor!!!) with nvidia gtx1060...and yes - i can play latest games in full resolution and details 🙂
...and my laptop is Vaio VPCZ1 with 1st gen i7! 😄
Actually, I don't even know the price...
Richard
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1 minute ago, EskeRahn said:
I can absolutely follow you, BUT it much depends on whether you can feel reasonably certain that you can buy another in a couple of year or not.
I mean the approach make a lot of sense for a device like the Pro1 where we do not know if/when there will be another. But If I was in a market for an ordinary slab, I would most likely be looking at say yesteryears flagship, As I would feel certain that I would have upgraded to something different before it even got close to it's theoretical end of life, So Buying the very newest here would just be a waste of money.
I tend to work my devices hard, especially with the navigation, mapping, and aviation-related apps I use. Three to four years is about all I can expect if I buy them bleeding-edge. They still work after that time, but they start to get overwhelmed.
In the case of my first V20, the GPS radios are also tired and have a hard time holding a fix these days; but that's a hard use-related problem, not an obsolescence problem.
Also, although I do like keyboard phones, I'm okay with the BT keyboard when I have to do things like manage a server via SSH. Termius works great with my BT keyboard. So a keyboard phone would be a "nice" rather than a "must have" for me. I'm not even sure that it would work as well as the BT keyboard because I don't know how it would handle the key combinations needed for shell operations.
What it comes down to is that I'm interested, but not yet sold. There's a lot to weigh on both sides of the scale.
Richard
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Also, my V20 with the Snapdragon 820 is starting to struggle under the load of all I'm asking it to do. But I've had it for more than three years, and I have a spare V20 that I pressed into service for navigation- and mapping-related tasks, so it's no emergency. It's just another SIM card to pay for every month.
Technically, I don't even need the second V20 to be activated. I have a Verizon Jetpack account with unlimited 4G that I could feed to the second V20 for traffic updates. But my other number is starting to get overwhemed by robocalls, so I'm debating keeping the "temporary" number that I got for the second V20.
Sooner or later, though, I'd like to have one phone shouldering the whole load again.
Richard
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19 minutes ago, silversolver said:
My daily driver is a Droid 4 running Android 7.1 (LineageOS) and it's fine. It is a 2012 chipset at the latest. It is a little laggy sometimes, mostly because of limited RAM. It works well enough that I'm posting this from it. I also have a BB PRIV I use mostly as a TV, and sometimes as a satnav device. It works flawlessly with no lagging for everything I do on a 2015/16 chipset. I have absolutely no concerns about the "2017" chipset, especially on a device that is almost 100% open, including the bootloader. I still have a Dell laptop with a 1998 chipset that I still use for real work on a regular basis......it's slow, but reliable.
I have no understanding of the obsession with the latest chipset. If the older one is still adequate for the task at hand, what difference does it make if the manufacturer still cares about it? Security vulnerabilities are not a thing IMO; the only REAL security vulnerability is the user.
It has to do with the immutable fact that software developers will always exploit hardware to its maximum capabilities; so at some point, every chip no longer performs as well in terms of user experience. It may be counting to one just as many times every second as it did when it was young, but it's starting to fall behind software that's pushing it to count faster.
That's why my policy with electronics that I can't easily upgrade post-purchase is to buy bleeding-edge. It delays the onset of obsolescence. A phone with a 2-year-old chip will obsolesce two years sooner, meaning I'm paying for two years less use of the device. Unless there's some compelling reason to the contrary, for another hundred bucks or two, I'd rather buy bleeding-edge and get the extra years.
This phone is different enough that I'm waiting for either a hardware upgrade or a compelling reason to make an exception. But I'm not sold yet.
With stuff that I can upgrade, I'm not so obsessive. I once used the same home-built desktop computer for 12 years. But by the end of that 12 years, literally every part of the machine except the case had been upgraded, piece by piece, right down to the mobo, and including the OS. I have no problem with rolling upgrades when they're practical. I'll save some gelt up front and upgrade when I need to. But that's not very practical for a phone. It's possible, I suppose; but it would be impractical and probably illegal.
Richard
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7 hours ago, glumreaper said:
To me this is the ideal: get keyboard phones popular and mainstream again. I'd love for the Pro1 to do really well and convince other manufacturers to also bring back the side-sliding hardware keyboard form factor.
However, I've come to realise that I don't really want to buy the Pro1. It's got too many niggles right now, and I don't really trust FXtec. However, I'm willing to get one and support them because it's the only option at the moment in this form factor.
I'm also on the fence and leaning toward the "no" side, for some of the same reasons; but I'm interested enough to stay informed, also for the same reasons.
The downsides of my buying this phone right now (were that even possible) are many. The most important is that it doesn't have full support for AT&T bands. I haven't checked the VZW or TMO bands, however. VZW, if fully-supported on all bands, would definitely be an option for me. They have good signal here. TMO or one of their MVNO's might be an option for me. I haven't tested TMO's 600 MHz signal where I live. I know their other bands won't work. I happen to like AT&T, however; so unless I were fully sold on the phone and the company's survival prospects, I wouldn't want to change.
The delays are a mixed bag with regard to the company itself. Delays can be signs of disorganization, or they can be signs of a commitment to getting things right. I hope the latter is true here.
As I mentioned elsewhere, the 2017-era chip also bothers me. It would be four generations old by the time I got the device if I were to order it today.
So I'm on the fence. I have no need for a new phone right now. Electronic gadgets are a lifelong hobby for me (I got my first FCC license when I was 14), so it wouldn't be the first device I bought more because I liked it than because I needed it. But this is a brand-new device from a brand-new company. Maybe the second version will address my hardware concerns, or maybe there will be no second version. Either way, my present stance is watchful waiting.
Richard
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2 hours ago, EskeRahn said:
Ah, you mean the airport? 😇🤣
As well as the man. I miss the man. The airport, not so much (although it beats LGA).
Richard
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2 hours ago, Polaris said:
This is not entirely accurate. Verizon won't activate any device that doesn't support VoLTE; however, once they activate a VoLTE device it it will work on their CDMA networks. I know this to be a fact because I have done it, and, last weekend, a friend just activated an older LG G3 with them and never even turned on VoLTE. All his SMS and voice calls are taking place on the CDMA network.
Correct.
With VZW, I find it's often a matter of who you talk to. Their technicians vary widely in their knowledge of the company's policies and their network's capabilities; and the people on the account side of things know even less.
I have a MiFi device on their service that shouldn't work with the plan I have (or so they told me), but it works spectacularly and required zero configuration. I inserted the SIM, it activated, it updated its firmware, and it worked. No intervention required. It even registered itself and shows up as itself on my account. But if I ask them if it will work, they'll say no -- at least as of the last time I asked (which was before I took a chance and bought the device). I no longer ask because it's a grandfathered unlimited plan that I know they'd love to cancel because I abuse the shit out of it. I don't want to give them a reason.
The store employees tend to know even less; but because there's often a sale connected to get a device working, they'll work a little harder. The last one I spoke to told me emphatically that no new CDMA activations would be processed as of January 1st, even of their own devices. Perhaps what he meant was no CDMA-only devices would be activated. The official policy is vague enough that either could be officially correct.
As anyone who's dealt with VZW for a long time knows, however, there's often a canyon between what's official and what works in the real world.
Richard
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46 minutes ago, Craig said:
This is no better than the way people have done it already, it's still not using the CDMA bands the device supports. Verizon needs to activate Pro¹ with all the radios including 2G/3G, not just 4G.
This isn't a device-specific limitation. VZW is no longer activating even their own CDMA devices. All new activations will be VoLTE.
https://www.verizonwireless.com/support/knowledge-base-218813/
CDMA also can't be swapped to new devices, so muling won't (or at least shouldn't) work with CDMA. It might, because CDMA has nothing to do with the SIM card, so it might carry over from the account settings; but I wouldn't count on it.
Existing CDMA devices will still work for at least another year.
Richard
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52 minutes ago, silversolver said:
OK, so I'll ask the question everyone is wondering...how old are you? Fair's fair; I'm 36, but as previously mentioned was born old. I've been telling my daughter I'll be 81 in February. 😉
I like maintaining an air of mystery on the Interwebs. Would it be enough to say that I remember JFK very well?
Richard
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Just now, EskeRahn said:
Though you of course technically are right that a more complex process is more expensive. The strange thing is that curved displays have become so widespread that they actually sell cheaper. I guess simply due to being produced in larger quanta.
Thanks. I wasn't aware of that.
Richard
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10 hours ago, Rob. S. said:
I don't mind whether the phone has a screen like the Pro1 or a flat screen with a bezel. When I had the PRIV, I thought the rounded edges were stupid, but then again they rarely got in my way, and there was the nice feature of a battery indicator on one of the edges that could be seen even if something was lying on top of the phone. I guess it's just a software thing to make it more usable, and something F(x)tec might want to improve by exempting the edges from reacting on touch...
I've always considered rounded screens without bezels an unnecessary expense that provides little or no added functionality, an increased screen damage liability (edge impact is added to the things that can easily break the screen), a more expensive repair if that happens, and a complication in finding a hard case to prevent that from happening if one's lifestyle makes that protection prudent.
Or to put it more simply, I have no use for them. Rounded screens add expense, and increase the risk of damage and the cost of repair, while providing zero functional benefit.
That being said, a rounded screen is not a deal-breaker if the rest of the phone meets my definition of perfection for my mission. But it's an added negative if I'm on the fence about the rest of the phone, and it definitely would break the deal if an equivalent phone with a flat screen and a bezel were in the running for my money.
Admittedly, I'm a function-over-form guy. I'd use a brick phone if it were the best performer. I'm too old to give a rat's ass about status symbols or having the coolest toy. I want the most functional device, not the prettiest one. But I'm also old enough to know that there is no such thing as perfection. Sometimes one has to compromise.
Richard
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6 hours ago, Doktor Oswaldo said:
While I agree with most thing you are missing, I can only say "ok boomer" to that statement.
People around here are not as old as you think.
Have a look here:
And note that the poll is flawed, 40+ is by far the biggest group spanning 20 years of persons in here.
So most here are between 25-30. Me included.
This is a classic case of assuming without data.Not really. A 30-year old probably has been using mobile phones for at least 12 years (since 2008) and quite possibly before then. My goddaughters, who were living with me temporarily in 2008, both had phones, and they were pre-teens at the time.
In December of 2008, six of the top 10 most popular phones in the United States had physical keyboards. If current 30-year-olds liked them, they might very well long for a new keyboard phone with modern hardware and capabilities. One might say they are prematurely middle-aged, at least in the mobile phone context.
Also remember that generations older than yours have a lower rate of Internet use, so the sample itself may be skewed toward younger users. I emphasize may because presumably users who were using prior Internet-enabled keyboard phones were more tech-savvy than average, but that may not be the case. They could have been handed BlackBerry phones by their employers, learned to use what they had to, and ignored the rest of the phones' capabilities.
Nonetheless, I think it's safe to say that Millennial and Gen Z users are more likely than Boomers to be using Internet forums, even though we invented the Internet, for which we seldom receive any thanks.
I'll graciously forgive you for that, however, as well as the "ok boomer" pejorative, because you are, after all, a Millennial and don't know any better. 😁
Richard
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2 minutes ago, silversolver said:
I'm happy to be a dinosaur. According to a certain snotty reviewer, anyone who considers a physical keyboard device is already a dinosaur, so I'll own that and take my bezel, thank you very much. 😉
I also prefer flat screens and bezels. It's not a deal-killing thing, just a preference.
As for the keyboard...
I think it's important to remember that excellent BT keyboards are available, some of which are designed for typical smartphones and come with cases to hold both the phone and the keyboard, for ~ USD $30.00.
What that means to me is that for a keyboarded phone to be successful, it should be more than a keyboarded phone. Start with the demographic who like phones with physical keyboards, which is overwhelmingly middle-aged and older people. Most youngsters laugh at phones with "buttons." So what else do we dinosaurs miss? Removable batteries, for one. So add that feature. The phone's not waterproof or dustproof, anyway.
Also equip it with the fastest chip and more RAM. Yes, it will raise the price. But most of us in the target demographic can afford it. We also tend to take care of our toys and keep them for a long time, so make the phone bleeding-edge hardware to delay obsolescence.
Keyboards are nice; but a keyboard alone won't make the phone a success -- and I want it to be a success. There are people who won't even consider a phone with less than the latest chip, despite the fact that they don't need one, so use the latest chip. And there are people who won't even think about buying a phone with a non-removable battery; so at the very least, change "non-removable" to "user-replaceable" in the marketing materials.
In other words, cast a big net and bait it with all the features middle-aged and older users miss. If you're going to target us old farts, then go all in.
Richard
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1 hour ago, Hook said:
That's pretty much what I did, as described in my earlier post in this thread:
The tricky part is that they won't officially activate the Pro 1 on their network because it isn't certified by them. This was working with them in the shop. So my pro 1 has the sim from my Moto G6 and the network thinks my Pro 1 is my Moto G6 (which Verizon is fine with-- they know). It's something to do with, until they convert fully over to LTE and ditch the CDMA network, the phone has to be certified on the CDMA network still, but only certified phones are allowed. But, yes, the phone works fine as a VoLTE and ViWiFi phone as long as the old SIM is from a VoLTE enabled phone.
It really doesn't have to be certified by Verizon anymore. It has to be certified as meeting the Open Development LTE requirements. The problem is that the idea of Verizon-certified phones is so ingrained in their system and their culture that it has to be done manually, and very few Verizon employees know how to do it (nor even that they're allowed to).
The easiest way for a manufacturer to avoid hassles is to get their phone certified as meeting OD LTE requirements first, and then submit it to Verizon for approval. If it has the right radios, it should be a rubber stamp approval that will get the model in the database so IMEI / MEID checks work. In theory, at least. In practice, who knows...
Even some unlocked phones that are Verizon-certified have to go through the manual process described above unless the SIM was muled from a phone that had VoLTE activated. They've been using their own phones exclusively for a long, long time. It's going to take them some time to transition to a more open system.
Richard
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You can get any device that is certified as meeting the Open Development LTE requirements (which also presupposes FCC approval) activated on VZW as long as it supports the bands and VoLTE.
The problem is finding someone at Verizon who knows how to do it. You may have to do it for them, which is why I think it might be easier to do it from a store than over the phone. If you're opening up a new account conditional on getting the device working, the salesman has some extra motivation.
The basic process is to make sure your billing account and your network account are in sync (which one would think would always be the case, but in which assumption one would be wrong), at which time a new option will magically appear on the provisioning menu to activate the device as a CDMA-Less (LTE-Only VoLTE) device.
Once that's done, the device should start working almost immediately. It may or may not require a reboot.
Richard
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On 12/22/2019 at 5:07 AM, Zamasu said:
I don't know of any other device I'll use that'll have a keyboard that I use with my thumbs. It's a completely different muscle memory. I don't have the Pro1 yet so I'm speculating, but I don't think the muscle memory will collide with regular keyboards. I didn't have any significant issue with the Desire Z even though that merged and moved some things around because of the small keyboard.
I haven't used (nor even purchased) the Pro 1; but I've used about a bazillion keyboards over the decades and never found that any of them took more than a few hours to get used to. Usually a lot less than that, truth be told.
I guess part of the reason is because I was an on-site computer/network tech for a long time, so I used a lot of devices. You get pretty good at shifting gears. The old-school BB keyboard was my favorite because the smile shape and other tactile cues seemed to aid muscle memory acquisition. But I can't say that I "hated" any physical keyboard on any phone I've ever used. I've hated a few on computers (the "ergonomic" ones most of all), but not on a phone.
Richard
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On 1/1/2020 at 9:14 AM, EskeRahn said:
I think there is a deeper worry beneath this: The fear of this being the last real slider keyboard phone, perhaps forever, and not unlikely for many many years. And If so, the newer the specs at launch, the less outdated it will be in say 10 years. Many of us are replacing really old phones with the Pro1.
That's how I feel. I tend to keep phones for a long time, so I want them to have bleeding-edge hardware when I buy them. A two-year-old chip effectively shortens the device's useful life by two years.
On the other hand, an easily-replaceable battery that doesn't require breaking the phone in order to fix it is a powerful plus that I am balancing against the 2017-era chip in deciding whether to purchase this phone. The 6 GB of RAM is also a plus, but 8 GB would have been more so if it were powered by an 855 or 855+.
The unlockable bootloader is also a plus, of course, even though I probably would stick with stock ROM. Knowing that I have the option to experiment with leaner ROM's also to some extent mitigates my concerns about the 835 chip, since alternative ROM's tend to be leaner and less resource-hungry than stock.
Another downside for me is the lack of B14 and B30 support, which is not something firmware can fix if the radios don't support the bands. B14 in the USA is prioritized for public safety use, but can be used by others on a de-prioritized basis. But it also should have the most extensive coverage of any band once it's fully rolled out, making it a real plus for rural users. B30 is an important (but not strictly necessary) AT&T band that's useful for extra bandwidth in many places.
B14 is very new, so I understand why so few phones support it. But B30 has been around for a while and is owned by the USA's biggest GSM provider, which makes it kind of puzzling why this and many other unlocked phones don't support it. Surely the lack of B30 is a deal-killer for millions of users in one of the world's biggest markets. It's not strictly necessary in order to use a phone on AT&T, but the lack of it does reduce the phones' usefulness and performance in many places.
As for me, the lack of B14 and B30 aren't deal-killers, but they're certainly concerns. They're scale-tippers, one might say. I might have taken a chance and purchased this device if it supported them, despite my lack of enthusiasm for the 835 chip and the fact that the Pro 1 is a first release of a first product by a brand new company with a very narrow target market.
I've been in tech in some capacity or another since the 1970's. Being an early-adopter for the sheer joy of it got old a long time ago. Now I'm more inclined to wait and let others stomp the bugs, especially when even if the device performs as designed, the design specs are not as good as they could be for my own use case.
All of these factors are why I'm on the fence. But as I said, the keyboard, the unlockable bootloader, RAM that should be adequate for a while, and what is reported to be an easily-replaceable battery, are powerful-enough inducements that I did register for this forum in order to keep up with the progress and early real-world reviews of the device. I'm just not ready to buy one just yet.
Richard
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Selling my Pro1
in General Discussion
Posted
Total agree on the gimmickry, especially as touching upon cameras. Three-quarters of the page on most manufacturers' model pages are devoted to the camera. I could give a rat's ass about the camera. I'm interested in the guts.
Richard