[On the pre-production status]

11 minutes ago, agent008 said:

That. We do know one backer with orderd number #4XX still didn't get his/her device. What dishonest people, selling 3.500 devices while early birds such as backer #4XX are still in the dark. </sarcasm>

EDIT: Although, I agree, Planet communicates better than Fxtec. I think it is difficult to disagree with this point.

Yeah the fact that planet is apparently shipping regular orders is awful, though we don't know if they are maybe just shipping the layout combinations that are in surplus (though this would mean they didn't just produce all the backer units first as expected). I would be more concerned with the backdoor in the cosmo, at this point even if you get your device you just can not use it because any app can use the backdoor service to exfiltrate all your data.

Which is why I'm hoping someone takes apart the adups stuff to see if it also includes some kind of C&C and backdoors on the pro1...

[On the pre-production status]

34 minutes ago, Doktor Oswaldo said:

Yeah but there were not a lot updates at all 😄 So there could be a lot more issues we don't know of. If you follow other sources there are hints that this may be true.
However we don't know. That is exactly the worst part of this project, we don't know anything at all!

Yeah, not to mention issues that are not related to shipping... the cosmo turns out to have a 3rd party OTA provider too, and they have baked in a backdoor android service that allows any app on the device to do anything it wants, see https://wuffs.org/blog/pulling-apart-the-cosmos-systemfota-updater .
There planet hasn't provided any public information yet, but on the other hand fxtec's Chen has come forward and at least written something (not really acked the problem, unfortunately) regarding adups.

I hope the adups stuff is just the app that was found (but until some whitehat pulls apart the ROM I would not expect it to be different from digitime's stuff, they both have bad reputation)

[On the pre-production status]

2 minutes ago, Doktor Oswaldo said:

While I absolutely agree that the updates are a waaaaaaay better way of handling a product like that, some assumptions in this post are not certain.
We do not know how many they started to produce, we do not know if they had to redo thousands of devices.
 

That's true, but the screen issue update IIRC was worded in such a way that it wasn't a huge deal. I don't remember there being any other delay update, aside from the screens and shipping taking longer, but shipping should be orthogonal to production.

Edit: in one of the updates Planet Computers came forward and said they had a lot of QA rejections in one of the factories, so it seems to be possible to give information on the subject (just in case you think fxtec has some kind of NDA with the factories that prevent them from giving proper updates)

[On the pre-production status]

14 minutes ago, agent008 said:

Sounds familiar! So now conspiracy theorists, in order to keep consistent, will have to say that not only Liangchen/Fxtec, but also the people behind Cosmo are pulling a stunt on all their backers, they are dishonest, and will leave all of their supporters to die in thirst of keyboard awesomeness while having a wild ride on backers' money. Right? Ah?

And... the brave fine folks from Cosmo Communicator (I admire them as much as the people at Fxtec for the boldness of making such small-volume gadgets against all odds) have already launched an earlier product. Still, they are delayed even having a prior experience. Food for thought.

You guys must be living on another planet, the cosmo updates are light years ahead of fxtec's abysmal communication: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cosmo-communicator#/updates/all

They have delivered over 3500 cosmos, whereas fxtec regularly promises that "all pre-orders will be shipped by X" and doesn't even ship much stock at all. You remember when Erik wrote mid november that all is on track for completing all pre orders by christmas with surplus stock? Do you realize now that they hadn't even STARTED producing 3/10th of the stock at that time (since we are told that this batch was completed now)? That is not a bad estimate lmao, that is a straight up lie.

BTW, according to planet their factories missed quite a few deadlines, I wonder if it's the same for fxtec but for some reason they decide to take the blame themselves.

[FX Tec response time on emails requesting a refund.]

4 hours ago, silversolver said:

I agree that delivering to resellers in any quantity before all preorders were filled was inadvisable, though perhaps it was unavoidable and necessary for good reasons.

We all make our own choices. To me, to do what you did was also inadvisable from the standpoint of giving F(x)tec and the Pro1 the absolute best future possible. I sincerely hope that the future is so bright for both that my concern proves utterly unwarranted. I am very conservative by nature, and do not like to take any unnecessary risks with the things which are truly important to me. I think cheating was a poor choice of words earlier, because it relates to morality and ethics. I don't think what you and some others did is immoral or unethical, only that it was not in the best interest of the Pro1's future.

You know you can just paypal fxtec some money if you so badly want to go above and beyond to help them? Taking a net negative (waiting longer AND paying more AND giving them a zero interest loan in the meantime) is literally the same as giving them money, so you might as well just do that.....

If you want to give fxtec the "absolute best future possible" just give them all your money. You can't put out absolute statements like that and then not follow it up. There is no line in the sand if you want the "absolute best future possible". Why not work for them for free, too?

[Selling my Pro1]

@fxtec5

Regarding your point 5. according to evildragon's setup guide at

https://www.dragonbox.de/index.php?fc=module&module=ybc_blog&controller=blog&id_post=9

If you install the app Edge Null it should be solved (not the color issue though and yes the decision to use a curved screen was weird at best)

[High volume when speaking]

7 hours ago, basel said:

So, no solution?

I think you need to shoot a mail to customer support. It's been stated many times that these forums are for the community only and nobody is reading them "officially". In that light it seems really dumb to have sections like "bug reports" and "support" in here, but what do I know. Either the forums are community only or they aren't but as with everything else fxtec wants the cake and to eat it too..

Contacting support would for sure at some point get an issue open for the developers to fix, so that's what you need to do for every bug imho.

 

 

Edit: there is also this topic

but it was the usual fire and forget move. Dropped by someone official and then never updated (it's over a month old, there have been a lot of other bug reports). So I believe support is the only place to go that makes sense for things that don't have workarounds or community contributed fixes.

[What's the highest serial number in the wild? Post yours if yours is higher]

8 minutes ago, adidas88 said:

Thank you very much. Apparently I have the number 22

bought from Dragonbox 3 days ago. oO

But that doesn't make sense right? How can it be batch 1 when EvilDragon told us it was shipped directly from the factory early december? Maybe the serial number is... not serial at all?

[On the pre-production status]

1 hour ago, cmar said:

I thought that maybe you would be interested that for me it does not work anymore. Unofficial updates, "tiny updates because everything is according to plan", "one batch has left the factory - guess nr and size".. Nope. I do not like to be treated this way. However it is not a drama. There are indeed other problems on this planet.

 

To be fair you have to recognize that Erik is an utter badass if he is doing this on his own initiative. The alternative (if he was not doing this) is nothing but the update emails and support. That would be terrible!

I think fxtec's communication strategy makes sense given the intent of having actual pre-orders as opposed to crowdfunding. They might have been better off doing actual crowdfunding or recognizing early that the "real consumer order" thing wasn't going to work well without hiccups, but who am I to judge.

 

Edit: honestly imho the entire conflict in the community is due to some of the members feeling like they are crowdfunders, and others feeling like they are regular customers. It's kinda fxtec's fault for having gone with the regular customer thing while the background is more akin to crowdfunding. But if you realize and think about this dichotomy it should be very easy to understand each other and stop being so aggressive!

[FX Tec response time on emails requesting a refund.]

39 minutes ago, silversolver said:

Boo! Selling your soul to the reseller devil for a buck that takes 100 out of F(x)tec's not deep pockets. This is short-sighted.

I think it's not that black or white. While it sucks that fxtec mostly lost pre orderers to the resellers (which is honestly their fault at this point) at least with how fast the reseller stock was sold out this should send out a good signal that there is demand for the pro1 which bodes well for keyboard sliders in general (hopefully). Also I wouldn't expect the deal with the resellers to be so bad compared to production costs, what is the point of dealing with them in the first place then?

[On the pre-production status]

2 hours ago, Val said:

@fxtec Seriously? How about the real IGG backers?!? We've supported you for how many months, soon to be years? This has nothing to do with production, logistics and such, but with a simple promise. Simple as a man's word.

This isn't really new, support also offered to jump the queue when I told them I wanted a refund (no IGG and late pre-order). So I think the people without IGG who received a unit "by accident" might have been prioritized that way. TBH it kinda makes sense anyway... if they have cash flow problems, getting new orders might make the difference between you getting a unit or not getting a unit at all. And more customers is better for the long term support (does anyone know what android security patch level is on the pro1 right now?)

[AdUps software installed for OTA?]

3 hours ago, silversolver said:

Do you do business with other companies based on the perceived morality of its staff, or based on the ability of the company to deliver a relevant product or service? In other words, are you consistent, or just venting? Amazon, Apple, Walmart, McDonalds, Samsung......do you evaluate every manufacturer and vendor this way, or just the ones who don't give you your cookies as quickly as you expected?

You have a really good point, especially given that Chen's reply is actually stellar (have you ever seen Jeff Bezos reply to you saying that if you report issues they will work with you personally to resolve them?)

There's just one part that is really bad, and that is
 

Quote

If you don't trust us DON'T buy it!

For a device that literally has all of your digital life in memory (if you use a password manager) this is not a very nice statement. Sure you need some trust unless you want to audit the entire stack yourself, but being concerned about 3rd party software isn't "not trusting", it's just doing your home work.

I mean the opposite is trusting that "bank manager" that wants to transfer you $1,5bn from Kenya? I'm a bit into opsec myself, and putting down people who are legitimately concerned is an awful practice that needs to stop.

It's like noticing a hole in your front door and the construction worker starts spewing out "DON'T YOU TRUST ME GO FIND ANOTHER CONSTRUCTION WORKER LOL". I think the reply was perfect without that last part.

[On the pre-production status]

I got a stock assigned mail on friday, despite having cancelled weeks ago (and gotten my refund). Lol. I contacted support (since I'm not an asshole), and now my order is finally marked as cancelled (today). So pretty sure this means that someone will get a stock assigned email today!

[On the pre-production status]

10 minutes ago, ttodd said:

If this goes wrong now, I wonder where I stand getting my money back off the credit card company 😕

It's very easy to get a refund, you almost certainly don't need to go through your CC. Especially before christmas they're almost certain to find someone else to ship the stock to, so it's not like if you refund they will have tons of pro1s on their hand and no buyers.

[On the pre-production status]

1 hour ago, glumreaper said:

It was specific to my second-batch order.

FYI asking for a refund will result in all sorts of proposals, including "prioritizing" your order. At that point I just wasn't comfortable letting them hold onto my money anymore.  Some of the shenanigans sound like cash flow issues. And given the small amount that was shipped and the deviation from the original estimate, I don't get how the factory hasn't built all the units so far. Like I get the shipping and logistics delays, but how hasn't the factory at least finished producing all the batches in the months that have passed?

 

The phone really seems to be stellar in quality. Not like the cosmo that apparently has a ton of software and hardware issues. So I will be first in line to get a pro1 once it's actually in stock. But it currently looks like this will take way more than christmas. The yield from the factory must be abysmal ( I guess the QA is also really good from what we've seen so this probably slows things down even more)

 

Note: My refund was processed without issues though. So all this is just speculation. I don't think it would be so easy to get a refund if the project was in imminent danger.

[On the pre-production status]

4 minutes ago, Rob. S. said:

Sorry if this has been answered already, but this thread is getting ever harder to search through –

• If all pre-orders are expected to ship until christmas, as I read in community.fxtec.com/topic/2461-pro1-pre-orders-updates, does that mean that regular orders now probably won't? 
• Is it still a thing that QWERTZ keyboard orders might ship earlier than others even if they were regular orders, not pre-orders?

Cheers and all the best,
Robert

Regarding your first point all orders at this time are pre orders apparently. You can't have a regular order. It's just a wording thing in their software.

[On the pre-production status]

1 minute ago, A Dude said:

They are definitely sequential, but not consecutive. If you got a 35xxx order number, it's highly probable, there will be around 30k orders. And current oder numbers might already exceed 40xxx.

Right, that's what I meant, sorry!! My point is that an order number in the 30k range doesn't imply that there are 35k orders.

[On the pre-production status]

3 minutes ago, A Dude said:

My order number is bigger than 30,000. So I'll go for "at least 35k orders".

It was said multiple times here that order numbers are not sequential, so all of your calculations are unsound.

[On the pre-production status]

To me the interesting part is the thursday the 14th. That is tomorrow. If you want the phone before christmas (special deal between fxtec and dragonbox). And note how it's still just "almost" guaranteed before christmas if you order by tomorrow.

 

Which really sounds like the general availability before christmas gospel has gone to smithereens. But as a corollary, everyone who has an order right now should get their phone before christmas still 😅

Or they are creating pressure for people to order fast, because they have a huge batch before christmas but don't want to sit on the stock. But this is just speculation.

[On the pre-production status]

Here is an interesting bit of information. I am subscribed to the dragonbox newsletter due to pre ordering the pyra years ago:

 

Grab your new smartphone with physical keyboard now!   It took quite a while since the last keyboard-slider phone, the Droid4 had been released! So many fans out there were anticipating the release of the Droid5 which sadly never happened. Then there was the Gemini clamshell phone, which was pretty good as well - but not everyone liked the keyboard and it had the issue that the screen was hidden when the phone was closed. Thankfully, there's a new phone coming to you: The F(x)Tec Pro1.  The manufacturer did everything right: High-End CPU (Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 MSM8998) Lots of storage (128GB) and RAM (6GB) DualSIM (two nano SIMs can be used) Unlocked bootloader, Android 9 Pie is preinstalled Backlit keyboard (QWERTY and QWERTZ available) Beautiful 5.99" AMOLED screen (2160 x 1080) with Corning® Gorilla® Glass 3 NFC, HDMI over USB, all kinds of sensors, GPS, etc. 12MP Sony Camera Wide range of frequencies, can be used worldwide AC Adaptor comes with US, EU and UK plug. It's a high-end phone with a high-end backlit physical keyboard! Every reviewer who received the unit praised it. The demand is expected to be high - but we made a special deal with the manufacturer and are happy that we can almost guarantee a delivery before christmas (unless a delivery service messes things up or similar). You need to be fast though - as christmas is close, the deadline is Thursday 14th. You can still preorder it later, but the later the order, the less likely is a christmas delivery (you should receive it shortly after though). For full technical specs and more information or to preorder it, check the link below.     Here is the dragonbox order page: https://www.dragonbox.de/en/handhelds/handhelds-running-android/fxtec-pro1-dualsim-smartphone-with-keyboard-qwertz-preorder?newsletterpro_source=newsletter&id_newsletter=35&SubmitCurrency=yes&id_currency=1

[On the pre-production status]

2 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

...that is one possibility, or the (poor) communication have been interpreted wrongly.

It is a bit like before the wall came down, where all kind of things was attempted deduced from the scraps of information that came out from the Kremlin. Would we have preferred much more information? Absolutely!! Are all the things we deduce/guess from what we can scrape together correct? Most likely not!!

I for one (mis?)read their earlier communication as if there would be TWO "Fulfilment warehouses", one for the the EU and one for the US, but that the rest would be sent directly.

We later understood that there will be THREE. That is an additional one for "the rest of the world". And that the first batch was sent to these warehouses on the 29.

So either they changed plans by adding a third warehouse to the distribution chain, or that had been the plan all they and we had misinterpreted their intentions - I don't know.

Direct quote from Eric:

 

"Yes and no. A percentage of the first batch, proportional to how many orders we have in Asia has been shipped from our Hong Kong warehouse to customers at the same time stock left on it's way to our UK and US warehouses. This is a very small quantity, so the earliest I expect (and hope) people will share some pictures of arrived devices would be next week."

 

It's quite specific. So might be internal communication error (I know Eric is not a public relations person) but especially the past tense makes it very very hard to believe that they shipped to another warehouse before shipping to asian customers.

[On the pre-production status]

Just now, Doktor Oswaldo said:

As said, the critic on their communication is valid.
Where have you requested your refund? Directly at the fxtec support or over you CC company?

FXtec support. And yes, I have asked about it several times since then. They also proposed/claimed some fishy stuff that I am not going to start spreading, but it was quite weird. I haven't gone through my bank or a lawyer yet because I don't want to hurt them.

[On the pre-production status]

1 minute ago, Doktor Oswaldo said:

Yeah I understand that it can make someone angry when you want the device but don't like what the company does. That is the real world. You must decide if you will buy it anyway or not. Nothing will change if somebody post the same stuff every 3 days

In my case this is untrue. I didn't sign up for the pre order experience. Look at their shop page and tell me where it says so?

If I had backed the project on indiegogo or kickstarter sure, I'd be cutting them a lot of slack.

And I can't even get out 🙄. My refund has been pending for almost 2 weeks now. In IT we have a saying, if it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, then it's probably a duck...

[On the pre-production status]

7 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

Maybe most of us got tired of saying the same thing over and over to the same people:

This is a startup, with a lot of things out of their control, doing a device of a type no one has offered for many years.

Why is it that people do not find it odd that a company as huge and experienced as Samsung could announce their foldable device to come "next year" for five years, and when it finally was announced it took half a year for it to become available, after cancelling all their pre-orders. And on the other hand expects Fxtec, to predict every obstacle, and work smoothly by the plan?

Sure their communication has not been stellar, but get real.

If you want a finished product, you might save your self a lot of grief, by not doing pre-orders

Ok but what about the units that allegedly shipped to asian backers on the 29th? How is there not even a twitter mention? Did the units get lost in transit? Were the lucky asian people suddenly kidnapped? Or did they not ship?

 

How in the world do you classify that as "not stellar". It's becoming hard to not see it as a straight up lie.

[On the pre-production status]

2 minutes ago, A Dude said:

Kinda funny, how "parallel" the Cosmo Communicator "forum" is 🙂

Except that when they said they shipped people actually got tracking numbers and devices within days, so complaining about the cosmo really is whining at this point!