Number keys on right-shifted QWERTY

[EskeRahn 5,459]

I know this have been mentioned deep inside other threads, but would like to have it isolated, to hear what others feel.

 

For languages like English and American English only using A-Z and no additional nation letters, I do get the idea of logically right shifting the keys to get them more centred, making it easier to let the left/right thumb do what the left/right hand do an a normal keyboard, without too much stretching from the right.

 

However in the current layout the digits and dash keys are not shifted in the same way.

 

I personally think that digits and dash should follow the letters, what do you think?

 

I would suggest that a shifted layout should look like

rather than

 

That is the keys for 1,2...0 and dash/minus also shifted into their normal relative positions to QWERTYUIOP, moving the = key left.

(cosmetically moved the apostrophes up a bit so they do not look like commas, and extended the underscore to make it stand out from a dash)

 

YES I know this would move + and = to the 'wrong' side. But do many need those that often on a phone? I would claim that the potential users in general is MUCH MUCH more likely to use a dash and the digit-keys with their symbols much more often than + and =, and would find it really inconvenient to have 22 symbols left-shifted relative to the letters for no important reason.

For those (I assume very few) using it for coding the move of the brackets and braces would be almost as bad as + and =, so they would most likely prefer a non-shifted layout anyway, i.e. ROUGHLY like

(sorry did not insert all)

So these few could use an international print like the QWERTZ proposed here by Waxberry

[Doktor Oswaldo 904]

Hard to decide without trying it out. But tend to the non-shifted layout, just because we are used to that.

But without any hands-on testing we have to trust fxtec. If a non-shifted layout leads to holding the phone always on the left side, close to tipping over... well I would prefer the shifted layout.

[EskeRahn 5,459]

Hard to decide without trying it out. But tend to the non-shifted layout, just because we are used to that.

 

But without any hands-on testing we have to trust fxtec. If a non-shifted layout leads to holding the phone always on the left side, close to tipping over… well I would prefer the shifted layout.

 

Agree. My point was if the numbers should follow the letters or not. Currently the layout we see has shifted the letters only, leaving the two parts 'misaligned' compared to what we are all used to, and that is what I think could be problematic.

 

(Tried to edit the OP to make it more clear)

[VaZso 1,998]

For those (I assume very few) using it for coding the move of the brackets and braces would be almost as bad as + and =, so they would most likely prefer a non-shifted layout anyway, i.e. ROUGHLY like

 

I would prefer that layout anyway... as I would not need to learn another placement of my modifier keys for áéő etc and there are also correct placement of keys for working conveniently on a terminal like doing ssh to another machines.

 

So I would vote for an unmodified version of QUERTY layout.

[EskeRahn 5,459]

I would prefer that layout anyway… as I would not need to learn another placement of my modifier keys for áéő etc and there are also correct placement of keys for working conveniently on a terminal like doing ssh to another machines.

 

So I would vote for an unmodified version of QUERTY layout.

 

Just to be sure: You mean you prefer unmodified to standard, and not unmodified compared to what the Pro¹ images we currently see, right?

 

My suggestion is that IF the letters should be shifted THEN the numbers should follow. (That is either all four or no rows shifted, not a mix)

[IraSeigel 0]

I would also agree with some of the commenters here: Knowing that Eske is one of the few people with hands-on experience with the keyboard, I would trust his intuition and suggestions. I would agree with him that his suggested modified layout to the keyboard would be best.

I'm an American English-speaking pre-orderer.

 

Thanks,

 

[EskeRahn 5,459]

I would also agree with some of the commenters here: Knowing that Eske is one of the few people with hands-on experience with the keyboard, I would trust his intuition and suggestions. I would agree with him that his suggested modified layout to the keyboard would be best.

 

I’m an American English-speaking pre-orderer.

 

Thanks,

 

Sorry to disappoint, I have not had the chance to have my hands on the device yet. So my suggestion is from a purely theoretical viewpoint.

[VaZso 1,998]

Just to be sure: You mean you prefer unmodified to standard, and not unmodified compared to what the Pro¹ images we currently see, right?

 

My suggestion is that IF the letters should be shifted THEN the numbers should follow. (That is either all four or no rows shifted, not a mix)

 

I don't know if the numbers should be shifted together with letters as I don't know which method is more convenient (in practical use).

 

...but I would like to have a standard keyboard instead of shifted letters and / or shifted numbers.

So, for working in a shell (by ssh for example), an unmodified standard keyboard would be highly the best thing to have.

Otherwise typing characters like / \ : - would be hard which reduces the usability of the keyboard itself (for working).

[Doktor Oswaldo 904]

doktor.oswaldo wrote:

Hard to decide without trying it out. But tend to the non-shifted layout, just because we are used to that.

 

But without any hands-on testing we have to trust fxtec. If a non-shifted layout leads to holding the phone always on the left side, close to tipping over… well I would prefer the shifted layout.

Agree. My point was if the numbers should follow the letters or not. Currently the layout we see has shifted the letters only, leaving the two parts ‘misaligned’ compared to what we are all used to, and that is what I think could be problematic.

 

(Tried to edit the OP to make it more clear)

 

I (now) understand your point. But I would not shift the numbers. It seems like a good idea. But I imagine, that since you are typing with your thumbs, it does not really matter if the numbers are above the correct keys. I image it is easier to find them if they at their normal places. I just think it would be good to shift as few keys as possible. But that is again only based on my Imagination. Could be dead wrong if you finally had the keyboard in your hand.

[EskeRahn 5,459]

I (now) understand your point. But I would not shift the numbers. It seems like a good idea. But I imagine, that since you are typing with your thumbs, it does not really matter if the numbers are above the correct keys. I image it is easier to find them if they at their normal places. I just think it would be good to shift as few keys as possible. But that is again only based on my Imagination. Could be dead wrong if you finally had the keyboard in your hand.

 

My thought is that if the top number row follow the letter rows it will feel like it was four keys at the right side that was moved to the left, but all the rest kept their usual logic (relative) positions.

But sure you could be right that the experience is so different from a standard keyboard, that it does not really matter either way.

[raphaelcno 21]

@waxberry

It would be nice if you could publish a flat image of the keyboard (with outline of the device) as a PDF file that we can print at exact scale, so that we can test it, Thank you :-)

[foxfreejack 60]

Hi,

 

If it was a full size keyboard, my response would be that numbers should absolutely follow letter position, since using standard finger positions would ruin accuracy (at least for the time it take to learn the new layout).

 

However, I will hardly use all fingers to type on the device, so my choice would be to keep the standard layout and keep the = and + on the right.

 

[Doktor Oswaldo 904]

Hi,

 

If it was a full size keyboard, my response would be that numbers should absolutely follow letter position, since using standard finger positions would ruin accuracy (at least for the time it take to learn the new layout).

 

However, I will hardly use all fingers to type on the device, so my choice would be to keep the standard layout and keep the = and + on the right.

 

Exactly what I meant. I would guess this is easier to remember and should not be a problem for your muscle memory since you are typing with your thumbs

[EskeRahn 5,459]

@waxberry

 

It would be nice if you could publish a flat image of the keyboard (with outline of the device) as a PDF file that we can print at exact scale, so that we can test it, Thank you :-)

 

Oh, you never got this, but here is a photo with a Pro1 on a piece of A4. Please note this is NOT the final keyboard, there are several minor adjustments, but for finger tests it will do just fine.