Gon009
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Posts posted by Gon009
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Finally Fxtec wrote something and it seems that delay isn't because of Fxtec at all but because of external things. They really need someone to take a role of PR guy, even when it comes only to simply informing people because currently the communication is just insanely bad.
From the mail it seems that hardware and software is completely finished. I hope Fxtec will use this time to further improve keyboard software, mainly function key remapping and right alt(AltGr) for people buying QWERTY keyboards, especially because they said that quality in their priority. I don't mind any day-one update once I get it out of the box.
I hope that we will get phones early-October and not mid-October.
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I wouldn't be disappointed if Fxtec team openly talked about delays giving us a clear reason for it. Now we are getting informed by people who received answers only because they wrote directly to Fxtec. Seriously, what the hell is happening? Will it be only given to a small number of people/testers? Will it be delayed again and again? We are almost in mid-September now, they should be starting sending soon and many people expect the device to come any day, if there was any chance for delay Fxtec team would know it at least since beginning of the month, they could inform us. If there was any bad thing that happened unexpectedly forcing that delay, why weren't we informed? Did that "second batch" ever happen? Is it going to be another Nokia N950?
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Just seen that the homepage has changed to say that shipping will be early October. I really hope that’s for new orders and not for existing orders!
Hmm, it says "Order your Pro1 today", not pre-order, also the website doesn't even mention pre-orders anymore. One of Fxtec guys also confirmed in Berlin that Pro1 will be generally available from October so it's definetly about normal orders.
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I will definitely take advantage of having function keys on both sides, however I think that an option to have a toggle between sticky and non-sticky should be a thing in my opinion.
Different people will use the phone, some won't need sticky modifiers, some will need it. There's really no choice currently when it comes to landscape keyboard phones and in my eyes, Pro1 should be as universal as possible. It's not that we can buy a phone with keyboard we want because there will be only Pro1. Because of that keyboard should be as much customizable as possible so everyone wanting a physical keyboard can adjust it to own needs. Sticky modifiers or not, function key remapping, altgr and other things. Only this way Pro1 can be a king of physical landscape keyboards that will be a good replacement for all old physical landscape sliders so everyone wanting a physical landscape keyboard can buy Pro1 without any worries. I don't know however how much freedom Android gives over the hardware.
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In Poland we use US QWERTY and use right Alt(AltGr) for special characters. Polish QWERTZ is unpopular. Personally I’ve never met anyone using Polish QWERTZ and also I don’t want to be forced to use it if I want special characters without getting my writing extremely slowed down to be able to write special special Polish characters. Even if there was a Polish QWERTZ keyboard option, I wouldn’t buy it. Actually I’ve never seen Polish QWERTZ physical keyboards to buy in shops here. Honestly the decision to make it “hold to have special characters” instead of some kind of AltGr-like button defeats huge part of the reason to have a physical keyboard, I would accept it in BB Key2-like keyboard when there’s no space for this, but when there are 64 keys available it should be a standard. It surprises me that it wasn’t a major point when creating the existing QWERTY layout. I still want to have Pro1 but I’m sad that the keyboard will be handicapped when writing in my language.I ask again, will there be an option to remap yellow arrows into AltGr without rooting the phone?
I mostly agree with you, just some minor points:
1. The layout you use in Poland is probably what is called the US-International layout (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltGr_key#US-International).
2. This is only useful on a smartphone if the phone is on a table or the keys are sticky (sticky means the key stays pressed until another key has ben pressed, so pressing altGr and releasing it and then press another button would have the same result as pressing altGr and the key together).
But this has to be done, using the android style “hold the key” is bad on a touchscreen, but having to switch between keyboard and touchscreen… I can’t imagine that this would be comfortable….
1. Looking at this: http://kbd-intl.narod.ru/english/layouts I can say for 100% that the keyboard we use is US Standard. There's a photo of my laptop's keyboard bought in Poland: https://imgur.com/a/zgIxdHP . Sorry for the bad quality but my phone camera is not really good. We all have keyboards like these here.
2. Yes, the sticky key would be enough and it would be acceptable for me. I had a phone years ago with something like this, it was good. However, I'm wondering if making both yellow arrow into AltGr could make it usable without having it to be sticky, you would use right AltGr for keys on the left side and left AltGr for keys on the right side. I wonder how would it work. It would need some of practice but it's difficult to tell anything at this point.
Anyway, having only the options to use "press and hold" or QWERTZ would make impossible for me to encourage anyone here buying Pro1. QWERTZ layout, nobody uses it here, I don't want to learn it anyway and anyone trying this phone would just give it back to me instantly. "Press and hold"? Anyone seeing it would burst into laughter. Phone with so many keys and you still need to use touchscreen and "press and hold" feature that greatly slows down writing. Honestly, if Pro1 ships with something like that I would probably be sure that physical keyboards can't make a comeback, ever. I write in Polish 95% of time on my phone, I currently skip special characters just because entire "press and hold" is not enjoyable. Wasn't physical keyboard meant to improve writing experience and functionality?
My suggestion is to allow people remap keys. Personally I would give these useless yellow arrows an option to remap them and a toggle to make them sticky or not. It would solve the issue.
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Hi all,Now, this is just a feature I’ve been pushing internally – it’s likely coming but it’s not confirmed yet.When you hold a key like O (and many others), a slim horizontal bar at the bottom of the screen (on the screen edge and right on top of the physical keys) will popup showing the accent characters corresponding to the letter in question. With this implementation, users will be able to type in most European / Scandinavian languages with only one physical layout – standard QWERTY.To my knowledge, this exists within the Android firmware by default, so we just need to configure and adapt it for use on the Pro1.We’d likely stay away from the Ctrl, Alt and Sym combinations for accent characters, as that can be uncomfortable when the device is in your hands and not on a flat surface.ErikOuch, that a very bad information. I hoped that these yellow arrow would be like AltGr keys but on both sides to make it comfortable. My old physical keyboard phone had a key that after pressing activated AltGr for next pressed character and it was quite good, didn’t slow down writing. Having to hold a key was a reason for me to not use special characters at all on Android because it drastically slows down the writing, especially on words that have many special characters.Will it be possible to remap somehow these yellow arrow keys without rooting the device?
The combination option for accent characters will still be available on our non-QWERTY layouts, or if, for example, you enable the QWERTZ layout with accent characters in software on a physical QWERTY device.
The idea is that “hold to select accent letter” will only be available when the software is configured to English with a QWERTY physical layout.
But again, this is all subject to change until implemented, and rest assured, we monitor your feedback and reactions on the forum :).
Erik
In Poland we use US QWERTY and use right Alt(AltGr) for special characters. Polish QWERTZ is unpopular. Personally I've never met anyone using Polish QWERTZ and also I don't want to be forced to use it if I want special characters without getting my writing extremely slowed down to be able to write special special Polish characters. Even if there was a Polish QWERTZ keyboard option, I wouldn't buy it. Actually I've never seen Polish QWERTZ physical keyboards to buy in shops here. Honestly the decision to make it "hold to have special characters" instead of some kind of AltGr-like button defeats huge part of the reason to have a physical keyboard, I would accept it in BB Key2-like keyboard when there's no space for this, but when there are 64 keys available it should be a standard. It surprises me that it wasn't a major point when creating the existing QWERTY layout. I still want to have Pro1 but I'm sad that the keyboard will be handicapped when writing in my language.
I ask again, will there be an option to remap yellow arrows into AltGr without rooting the phone?
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Hi all,
Now, this is just a feature I’ve been pushing internally – it’s likely coming but it’s not confirmed yet.
When you hold a key like O (and many others), a slim horizontal bar at the bottom of the screen (on the screen edge and right on top of the physical keys) will popup showing the accent characters corresponding to the letter in question. With this implementation, users will be able to type in most European / Scandinavian languages with only one physical layout – standard QWERTY.
To my knowledge, this exists within the Android firmware by default, so we just need to configure and adapt it for use on the Pro1.
We’d likely stay away from the Ctrl, Alt and Sym combinations for accent characters, as that can be uncomfortable when the device is in your hands and not on a flat surface.
Erik
Ouch, that a very bad information. I hoped that these yellow arrow would be like AltGr keys but on both sides to make it comfortable. My old physical keyboard phone had a key that after pressing activated AltGr for next pressed character and it was quite good, didn't slow down writing. Having to hold a key was a reason for me to not use special characters at all on Android because it drastically slows down the writing, especially on words that have many special characters.
Will it be possible to remap somehow these yellow arrow keys without rooting the device?
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Saying that Pro1 has 3 years old spec is a really wrong statement because the screen, RAM and storage is completely fine. SD835 is a 2017 CPU, which isn't 3 years old. Pro1 camera is used also in 2019 phones.
Anyway, the price isn't that bad if you compare it to BlackBerry Key2, the only current physical keyboard alternative, which costs even more than Pro1 and it had only 64GB memory and SD660 which is weaker than SD835. Also, Key2 isn't made for video watching and is meh in landscape.
When it comes to SD835, you only need better one if you need 802.11ay for getting max speed offered by 5G, 4k @ 60fps video capture, being able to playing most GPU hungry android games at max details for a long time, VR or you want to use phone for AI. If not, then SD835 is completely fine and it won't be that different from newer ones.
Another thing, comparing Fxtec Pro1 specs to Xiaomi is really unfair. Xiaomi got popular because it offers the highest specs for the lowest price possible, the probably have strategies to cut the manufacturing price where possible. Expecting that a small company that will only create few dozen thousands of phones should put the same price tag as Xiaomi is just unfair.
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I paid for the phone within 4 hours of receiving my email (which I got at 4:00AM).That was on August 1st.Over 2 weeks later and it’s still “processing” and not marked as “completed”.What does that mean?
Send a mail to them (or click the floating support link). as this does sound like a bug. There is no guarantee that they will see your post here..
If my pre-order is "completed" but order is at "processing" state, should I also write a mail?
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Manufacturing begins! Nice, the wait is slowly coming to the end.
I wonder how many devices will be manufactured, how long it's going to take and when they will arrive to UK for final shipping.
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It is clearly stated in the FAQ that the Pro1 does not have a removable battery:However, a man who went to the recent hands-on event says that, and that it merely requires unscrewing to gain access to it.It would be in the best interest of F(x)tec to be explicit in stating that, while not hot swappable, the battery is removable as this being the case is basically just as rare as hot swappability; the discrepancy between glass slabs that require you to break something in order to access the battery, let alone remove it, and phones with removable batteries at all is muchgreater than the discrepancy between phones with batteries that require a screw driver to be removed and phones with batteries that just require your hands to be removed.
Removing the screws possibly voids the warranty though, so I am not sure they are free to advertise that as a selling point. Also they might not be wanting to make official statements until the device is released… Those are just guesses though.
Yeah, I guess that opening the phone voids the warranty but they could still advertise it as an answer to predictable lifespan of the device. The answer could be something like "After the warranty expires, replacing screen, battery or the USB port to prolong the lifespan of your device doesn't require special tools for gluing/soldering because these parts are accessible by removing screws. Remember that removing screws before warranty expires voids it.". So it says that the phone is expected to work ever after warranty and any malfunctions past the warranty period won't turn it into piece of electronic trash. I think it's especially important because I'm sure that most of small, local phone repair services will see that phone for the first time ever after someone brings it to them after the warranty expires. People will know that the Pro1 isn't some kind of devilish phone that nobody will try to fix for them because of complexity or because it's exotic phone and also will know that with enough skill they can repair it by themselves and save some money. I'm sure that in 5 years Pro1 will still be used by people who bought it.
I guess that for many people Pro1 will be their most expensive phone ever bought, however when looking at the fact that Pro1 is a phone made to work for a long time then buying it or few budget 250 euro phones that are made to survive only 2 years means practically spending the same amount of money over all these years, suddenly 650 euro doesn't seem like that huge price.
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It is clearly stated in the FAQ that the Pro1 does not have a removable battery: https://www.fxtec.com/product/fxtec-pro1-pre-order/#toggle-id-9
However, a man who went to the recent hands-on event says that the battery is removable , and that it merely requires unscrewing to gain access to it.
It would be in the best interest of F(x)tec to be explicit in stating that, while not hot swappable, the battery is removable as this being the case is basically just as rare as hot swappability; the discrepancy between glass slabs that require you to break something in order to access the battery, let alone remove it, and phones with removable batteries at all is much greater than the discrepancy between phones with batteries that require a screw driver to be removed and phones with batteries that just require your hands to be removed.
Well, not having "removable battery" doesn't mean that the battery can't be removed at all, it means that you have to disassemble the phone to do this instead of replacing it like an AA battery by opening the case. What you call being "hot swappable" is what "removable" means. If you check for example "phones with removable batteries in 2019" you will get only results of phones having what you call "hot swappable".
When it comes to non removable batteries, there's no further classification of complexity of it from what I know. One could be so integrated with the phone that replacing it could be almost impossible, other could be easy to replace like it will be in Pro1. Removable is not the same as replaceable. The Pro1 has clearly non removable battery but it will be not that difficult to replace. So everything in FAQ is correct, they just could add that replacing it is easier than in usual phones. I think they could add also the information about phone being made for easier repairs for other parts.
https://www.maketecheasier.com/removable-vs-non-removable-battery/
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I have a question, I saw the discussion about the yellow arrow keys but I'm not 100% sure, do they function like AltGr key? I was wondering because my country language has special characters and they are some of them are at far right and far left side of the keyboard(AltGr + A and AltGr + L) and just a single AltGr key on phone's keyboard wouldn't work well for setups like that. Is this a function of these yellow arrow keys?
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It sure would help the phone industry (and us consumers) if Google’s Project Ara would be re-born and we could upgrade the components of the phone instead of having to get a whole new phone every time. That was my last best hope for a keyboard phone, as I figured some company would make a keyboard add on.
That was my hope too. But I guess there are too many money in planned obsolescence to allow for a user and environmental friendly idea like Ara to fly… ;(
I had no hopes in Project Ara from the beginning, a company of that size wouldn't release a device that could be just upgraded for a less money than buying new one. While it sounds amazing, no big company would do something like this because, as you said, money.
I myself, had lost my two side buttons in my 2-year old Samsung phone, each button was holding on a two 1mm X <1mm X ~0.3mm plastic pieces and these just broke off, probably by not pressing the button exactly on the middle so there was more stress on one of these pieces. Here's how the broken button looks compared to micro-USB(for imagining size of it): https://imgur.com/a/ioi7gkE , notice the small piece on the bottom and lack of it on the top. How to fix it? It seems that it needs to be inserted from the inside, how to get to the inside? Only by removing the screen which is glued to the phone. I'm 100% sure that this was not a design mistake but an intentional one.
The fact that the Pro1 is built for being durable(hinges) and easy to repair is really a huge thing for me. Yeah, big companies would think that Fxtec is naive but on the other hand by doing phones like that, if Pro1 will be really that good as shown in all these YT videos, Fxtec will secure a small but extremely loyal community that will want nothing but a Fxtec phone as the next one. One could also say that Fxtec will be fighting to get BB users on their side. However many of these people are more fans of portrait keyboards than landscape ones, also some BB users prefer not having an Android phone. Another thing, there are people wanting an Android phone that can be used as a normal smartphone and because of BB screen sizes the only BB phone for that was a BlackBerry Priv. Finally, I didn't see so far on this forum anyone who's buying Pro1 after using exclusively BB phones from always, if there are people like that buying Pro1 then I'm sure that there aren't many of them. I see that people wanting to get Pro1 are people, like me, who just want a landscape physical keyboard again and were using either old qwerty phones or current touchscreen-only ones.
Still, I wonder what will be the future of Fxtec after Pro1 gets fully released. There are >24k preorders but I wonder how many of them will pay. Also, I wonder how many people would like to get a landscape keyboard phone but just didn't hear about Pro1 yet. Finally, I wonder how many people are there who are waiting for a phone to release and then decide to buy it or not after read reviews of people who preordered it.
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Someone else from the forum pointed me to this rather captivating intverview with Doug Kaufman about the decline of qwerty phones, thought it was worth a share on the forums :). It ends on “If you could have a Galaxy S4 with a QWERTY, I think people would buy that.”, and I guess we’re about to find out if people would buy an S9 with a keyboard :).
Little did he know that there *was* an S4 with a physical keyboard at the time he wrote that article. It was called the Galaxy S Relay 4G. I just did a brain transfer from the one I was using for the past couple years to my last backup, identical phone. I’ve gone through about 5 or 6 since 2012, with one being dead on arrival (keyboard to screen ribbon cable only worked for a day and that is what has failed on just about all of these, with the exception of one being a broken screen). I sure hope the Pro1 comes before this one decides to die too! :-)
But the problem is that physical keyboard phones had sub-bar hardware and the article says about having a valid option of buying a flagship phone with physical keyboard. Galaxy S Relay 4G isn't a valid option, it was released many months after Galaxy S III but everything from screen to internal storage memory is inferior to S III. That's the problem. Same with for example HTC Desire Z, which was one of the most known QWERTY phone in my country, released almost a year after Galaxy S but with worse specs.
Pro1 will be probably a first phone that will give top-tier specs(except for chip which is still really good and the best I've ever had) and a physical keyboard. The only reason why I found Pro1 was when searching for valid options of having physical keyboard phones in 2019. Still, completely unknown company and the Pro1 has >24k preorders, I think it's quite a good result. The phone that should exist mentioned in this article is a Pro1 in my eyes.
Just my personal opinion, I think that in times of Galaxy S or Galaxy S II, hardware was much more important than now, I had many friends with cheaper Samsung smartphones in these days and these phones were running awfully, the Galaxy S was a completely different experience, much better screen and much better performance.
Though I hope it will, I really really doubt it will be a smashing success selling millions.But I definitely think there is a niche for it also in 2019.
On one side old dinosaurs like myself, that texts/mails a lot will welcome it as a long awaited return..
The big question if it will be manage to catch others that use their device a lot for entering text.
Apart from the obvious benefit of typing text and mails, I also see the Pro1 competing with tablets with keyboards and ultraportables, for those that enters a lot of text info, but do not need to also use it for e.g. sales presentations. I imagine doctors, and sales representatives visiting existing customers registering renewed orders and stuff like that. Or people inspecting various stuff, where they rarely do drawings but register text wise. Think e.g. health inspectors.
For me it's not only writing texts and mails but also being able to command a phone with buttons again. I see that system integration with the phone is very solid and gives a room for using keyboard for things like unlocking stuff, opening apps etc. It's not really a big deal now like it was in times on WM6 because android is made for touchscreen-only but still a nice thing to have. Also, I'm sure I will install PSX and GBA emulators on Pro1 again.
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Unfortunately I can't edit my post. Writing to [email protected] helped and I just got the payment email. Thanks!
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I also got no notification after 48 hours, already wrote an email.
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The reaction of the screen on keyboard being opened/closed is great now, huge improvement can be easily seen on the video. I see that the phone can switch between landscape and portrait mode based on the keyboard being open instead of senor readings, I love it.
Also, I love the fact that the phone is not just permanently glued/soldered like current phones so screen, battery and even USB port as said in the video can be replaced without bigger problems.
It's definitely not a phone that reaches its end of life after two years like most of current ones, it's clearly designed to be a worthy successor for all these old landscape keyboard sliders which can work even today. For a phone offering that much, despite having quite old chip, I think that the price is fair, especially because it seems that we won't have to change the phone for many years.
Can't wait to get it in my hands.
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unfortunately they didn’t share any numbers, I asked for them. But it was pretty clear, that the first units will be shipped out then. They will not be able to fulfill all the pre-orders within the first weeks.
Thanks for info, all of this gives quite clear view on the status of the project. I hope that they will be able to fulfill all preorders in reasonable time. I preordered extremely late because I didn't see that preorders are "pay later" ones so my order is 22xxx. I wonder if current manufacturing plan even assumes producing so many devices, having to wait for Winter 2019 or even year 2020 would be quite too long.
Another thing, I wish that the Fxtec team would share all that information on some kind of news feeds. There are still no official announcements after Düsseldorf but it seems that they shared quite a lot info there.
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The first units are planned to be shipped until mid-september. This is the status Adrian shared during the Meeting in Düsseldorf on 23rd. As said elsewhere, expect an official announcement and a newsletter next week!
It's good to know that.
Did Fxtec team shared any info about how many devices will be shipped per week?
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https://www.ustream.tv/channel/8wtQe37JPYH
think they said that they would start tsking money next week and a first pay first ship schedule and aiming to ship first week in september.
Where is that scandi qwerty?
It would be great, but on the second thought, why would Fxtec Team organize beta test if they would be shipping devices anyway?
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Thanks for reply.
I have a phone with 2.5D screen with Gorilla Glass 3 and it's indeed very scratch resistant. I'm using it without any kind of protector and there only ~5 almost unnoticeable scratches after 1,5 years, never had so good results with any other phone when it comes to scratches. However protective foil can prevent scratches, tempered glass and curves together are problem so the only way to improve impact resistance will be a case.
I guess that side drops won't be much dangerous because the phone is thicker and there will be more surface to take the impact, what I am afraid of are glass-first drops, either corner or flat drops and curved screen means more chance for glass to hit the surface directly compared to flat screen. I really don't trust curved screens. I really hope that Pro1 case will address this.
I wish we could get some data from durability tests of the Pro1.
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After seeing from the posts above that the screen is actually the same used in Elephone U Pro I would like someone to clarify on the glass of the screen itself. It is said that Elephone U Pro uses Gorilla Glass 5 but on the Fxtec website it is said that the Pro1 uses Gorilla Glass 3. Does the Pro1 uses Gorilla Glass 3 or 5? Looking at the fact that the protective foil is the only way of having any screen protection because of curves I think that clarification is pretty important. Flat screen is simpler and easier to protect and I'm afraid of the durability of that curved screen especially because the phone will be probably heavier than average so any impact will be more powerful for the glass.
Anyway, I wonder if that upcoming protective case will also protect the screen.
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I had two qwerty phones, first was Nokia 9500 Communicator that I wasn't using for a long time and the second one was SPV M3100(it's a HTC TyTN variant) which was a landscape slider similar to Pro1, except it wasn't angled. The SPV was my favorite phone, not just favorite qwerty phone(still sitting somewhere in the closet) and that device made me love qwerty in phones. What I liked in SPV was the ability to fully control it without even using touchscreen. SPV was built for Windows Mobile 5.0 but mine had WM 6.0(it was second-hand one and it was like that).Still, I really enjoyed that system, however for current time it's extremely outdated, hardware cannot handle new websites and after longer use WM 6.0 was working smooth anymore. Tried reviving it but it's just too old.
Writing messages was amazing with it, I could type without watching the screen. I also used it as GameBoy console.
I'm looking forward for Pro1 being my new favorite phone.
If I order today, when will I approximately receive the device?
in General Discussion
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Don't forget that there are Chinese holidays beginning from 1st October for entire week so I guess that factories won't work during that time. There are two working days left(because 29th is also a working day before holidays). For this moment it should be clear if there will be delay another or not. They should give us information that devices left factory and they will prepare for shipping them. I expect an announcement no later than Monday. If we don't get an announcement then probably another "silent delay" is on the way because if devices won't leave factory before the holidays then early October is just impossible.
My personal opinion is that there is a delay already that they didn't announce yet and we should expect pre-orders to arrive not earlier than late October. Orders even later. I won't ask for my money back only because there are no alternatives, also "order" price of Pro1 is over 20%(with current currency rates 23%) higher than it was during pre-order in my country. Key2 is an overpriced "always there" portrait keyboard phone that is just laughable in landscape mode so it's not an option for me. Key2 LE is just a joke for that hardware. Unihertz Titan is also a "always there" portrait keyboard phone, the price seems quite good until you see that it runs on MediaTek. So, I will have to wait for the Pro1.