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I agree my analogy isn't quite right, because this is not really an investment. But I don't think yours is either.the name of the perk i give money in exchange is "Pro1 X Early Bird". And yes shares can lose value but when you buy them they never promise you any return on investment. Trying to say that a reward base crowfunding is an investment is really trying to fit a square in a circle, no analogy will ever fit perfectly. Oh and a big company like Thinktankphoto using crowdfunding as a marketing tool to preorder their newest bag which production has already started, ca

And did it occurs to you that that you simply might not know shit about even just the basics of European laws ? Seriously, it's pretty insulting that you call me naive for defending what is our rights in this public forum. Stating how it falls legally is a complete different things than saying that I'm going to go alone like Don Quichotte fighting against them. Oh and yes I'm not a lawyer but as part of my Engineering training I've followed ITC laws courses and as parts of my jobs I regularly had to implement them (mostly GDPR but also some consumer laws).

Crowdfunding does not exist in Europe, as of now. A law is in preparation to regulate it but it's not yet in place. In the meantime it falls in whatever laws exist. You can't just invent a word and say it does not fall in any current laws. Or I will create my business doing zuchzmouech and say, "as it's not defined in the law I can define mine". (But yes, credit card chargeback in Europe should not be used to settle a commercial dispute and it's not an easy process like in the US.) But to comeback to the investment argument. Let's go back to the base of the base of

This articles make an interesting analysis and differentiation of all kinds of crowfundings : https://p2pmarketdata.com/crowdfunding-explained/ Crowdfunding can be used for investment (either with shares or a loan) but not all crowdfunding are investment. And very surprisingly, even if the reward-based crowdfunding is the most known of the general public it's only a very small portion of all the crowdfundings :

Please read everything else that I have posted.

If an Azerty keyboard was available on the Pro1 I would have ordered directly on the website trusting the delivery date indicated, but that's a different story 🙂 Oh and I just checked, even on fxtec website they state "Pre-Order" on the button that redirect on IGG. Really I think fxtec never claimed it was an investment, they never said to anyone that they would not apply the EU consumer laws and up to now they always did (even if slowly). So why us, the community, should we tell each other "you should be happy if you get a refund because you are high-risk-angel-inve

A donation is not the same as a purchase. And I'm sorry but you can't claim "we agree on the common goal of keeping keyboard phones alive" for everyone. Each of everyone backed this project for its own personal reason and that why there are laws and not "common goals" to live in society. I just did a few search and off-course we are not the first to discuss this point, some law professors even have published about it (and made proposition for specific laws for crowdfunding). https://kluwerlawonline.com/journalarticle/European+Review+of+Private+Law/28.3/ERPL2020004

That does not say the that the vendor as no responsibility, it only says that there are risks. Responsibility and risk are 2 very different things. I'm complaining because I see here people throwing their rights and the ones of everyone to the toilet in saying that we have none because we would be "investors". Even fxtec is not claiming that and never said something about not respecting EU consumer laws.

I can go again with my example : I want to sell furnitures online to French consumers, being myself based in France. 1) I make my own eshop website hosted on a French server. 2) I make my own eshop websote hosted on an American server. 3) I sell them on Etsy. 4) I sell them on IGG but I say "no no it's not a sell it's an investment" All 4 of theses make no difference and it's very fortunate otherwise it would be far to easy to not respect any consumer/local law in any country in this world...

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/shopping-consumer-rights/index_en.htm#bought-outside-eu "EU consumer rules cover goods and services that have been bought in the EU. However, if you buy from a non-EU online trader who has specifically targeted EU consumers you should also be covered by EU rules (...)" And on IGG terms you have : "3. Campaign Owner Obligations (...) e. If you have received the Contributions from your Campaign, issue refunds to Contributors if you cannot deliver Perks . f. Comply with Laws. Comply with all applicable

Actually EU law applies to any website that sells and delivers directly to EU consumers. Here the selling company is (was ?) also a EU company so the EU laws applies to them also by this way. The platform in the middle used to sell change nothing. Otherwise Amazon would not have to respect EU laws when they sell here (and they do), that would be crazy. Or for another example, if I, French, create my eshop on Squarespace (American platform I believe) to sell things to other Frenchs. It's obvious I can't avoid EU/French laws only because I used an oversee website... H

No, you all have to stop supporting this IGG bullshit. IGG can write whatever they want (like that we can cancel from them up to 2 weeks after the end of the campaign 🙄) it does not override EU laws. The only way for fxtec to not fulfill their side of the contract or refunding is to file for bankruptcy of the company. And with all of that we are all protected by EU consumer laws on remote orders. So even the 14 days return on reception applies if you don't like what you receive. On IGG we pay a precise amount of money in exchange of a service or product with a delivery date

I'm in the same boat, I have to chose something else. Still no answer for me either but before that you had to wait 1 month for an answer so I'm not hoping for better now... if someone got an answer from fxtec since the last announcement, let yourself know.

In some ways I hope it too but maybe this small niche needs some emptiness to be filled by a good company... Anyway for this year I think the only possibility will be the next Blackberry planned... I hope it will be good and released soon.

No they were options with higher price available with no limit of backers, it was never a question of availability. The principle of the pre-early birds, early birds is that to start the campaign the X first to back get a better price, and the X next a little less better price, etc. and then you only get the pre-order price (that should be lower than the future selling price of the product). Trying to make believe a category of price is almost gone and if you want it you have to back now to then add a few extra slots every time it's necessary to just keep it close to the end, is defi

Yeah and when the campaign ended they kept the order open on IGG indefinitely and it may never end... That a way of playing on words of that promise... Like playing the game of "only 5 pre-early available" to in fact contentiously adding a few available each day. Also the order we were supposedly able to cancel up to 14 days after end of campaign and in fact they set it in a way it's not. (I think the only way to do that is to pass on every order one by one to say a perk has been sent...) Like the slap in the face of the cybermonday offers long after the first backers supported

This answer makes no sense relative to the previous one...

This answer from Fxtec onIGG is very weird : "We have only found out in mid-January that the Snapdragon 835 is no longer available for our use - we never denied that it was EOL. Since then, we have been working on finding an alternative that doesn’t significantly affect our production timeline. There are still suppliers who have this chip in stock, but designing our PCB once again with another supplier would require significant, costly efforts." I don't get the link between their supplier and their PCB and why they are tied like that with a bad supplier...

If what they say about their supplier is 100% true I would start by changing supplier and asking compensations from the previous one.

I have worked on hardware, produced devices and PCB (on far smaller quantities), worked with suppliers and sourced various chipsets and CPUs. The first thing you do is signing an engagement with the supplier of how long the product will be available and that they have to warn you at least 3 months priori any change/revision to the product. Come'on this kind of thing don't fall from the sky. I'm sorry but between the unprofessional handling of the sourcing here, the always new excuses for delays and the complete lack of communication I'm done with fxtec. I don't trust them anymore.

Mhhh, I edited hope it works now.

It's a higher end sensor that the one before, it doesn't mean it's the best that could be for this value. But as everyone accept and buy smartphones considering the more pixels the better, all the high end smartphones sensors end up having a lot of pixels... 10 years ago it was the same trend on dedicated cameras but now everyone went back from that. On APS-C and 24*36 cameras you have a lot of excellent ones that stays at 24mpx for better sensitivity and pure quality. (Yes there are also a lot of 24*36 that went to 48mpx to handle big prints.) And I have looked to a lot of ph

And for an AZERTY Shinobi ? 😉 I also got (and mostly used up to now) its little brother, the Yoda2 but back then no AZERTY option (at least it's ISO). (For the switches I went transparent on both.)

For me a 48mpx camera is a downside. All smartphone camera are crap and rely on heavy postprocess smoothing to look good. On the other hand it's a real pain in the a** to manage the huge files you get from a 48mpx sensor. In a lot of place you need to resize before upload, etc. I prefer a good 12mpx, at max a 16mpx.

It's a joke at this point 😕 I think I'm good to cancel and find myself whatever I can order in the 1-2 months to come... Probably a used Key2 I'm guessing.