Small update for those only following the forums.

[MortisAngelus 2]

If they could get a license agreement for an official dbrand skin it would solve two issues: it would counter the fatty fingers marks, and it would probably reduce/counter any wobble from the small camera bump.

 

I really hope for dbrand, since a traditional case might be difficult for this slider-form factor.

[Doktor Oswaldo 904]

If they could get a license agreement for an official dbrand skin it would solve two issues: it would counter the fatty fingers marks, and it would probably reduce/counter any wobble from the small camera bump.

 

I really hope for dbrand, since a traditional case might be difficult for this slider-form factor.

 

Then submit a Request on the website:

https://dbrand.com/contact

I did.

[MortisAngelus 2]

MortisAngelus wrote:

If they could get a license agreement for an official dbrand skin it would solve two issues: it would counter the fatty fingers marks, and it would probably reduce/counter any wobble from the small camera bump.

 

I really hope for dbrand, since a traditional case might be difficult for this slider-form factor.

Then submit a Request on the website:

 

https://dbrand.com/contact

 

I did.

 

I did that for the Nokia 9 PureView. No acknowledgement from dbrand about my request.

 

I do, however, believe (educated guess) it is fxtec that needs to form a proper license agreement with dbrand, not something we can really affect - especially since fxtec is such a small brand. dbrand won't reach out to them, unlike with perhaps Samsung, Apple, Huawei, LG and OnePlus etc. as it would be bad for dbrand not to partner with such big companies.

 

 

[EskeRahn 5,460]

If they could get a license agreement for an official dbrand skin it would solve two issues: it would counter the fatty fingers marks, and it would probably reduce/counter any wobble from the small camera bump.

 

I really hope for dbrand, since a traditional case might be difficult for this slider-form factor.

 

A back skin would be a nice alternative to a case. No matter the brand.

Preferably one with a little more grib than the smooth metal back.

Cleverly it is NOT a back rounding smoothly into the side though, it has an edge that improves the grip (got my hands on a pre-production unit)

I tried to make a sketch:

 

[attachment file=14910]

[netman 1,424]

MortisAngelus wrote:

If they could get a license agreement for an official dbrand skin it would solve two issues: it would counter the fatty fingers marks, and it would probably reduce/counter any wobble from the small camera bump.

 

I really hope for dbrand, since a traditional case might be difficult for this slider-form factor.

A back skin would be a nice alternative to a case. No matter the brand.

 

Preferably one with a little more grib than the smooth metal back.

 

Cleverly it is NOT a back rounding smoothly into the side though, it has an edge that improves the grip (got my hands on a pre-production unit)

 

I tried to make a sketch:

 

<span class="image-overlay overlay-type-image" style="left: -5px; top: -115px; overflow: hidden; display: block; height: 128px; width: 405px;"><span class="image-overlay-inside"></span></span>

 

whoa you so lucky! are you at liberty to tell us more? how does it feel to type on?

[netman 1,424]

Wow you so lucky to get to see one already :)! Are you at liberty to tell us more? How does it feel to type on?

[EskeRahn 5,460]

Wow you so lucky to get to see one already :)! Are you at liberty to tell us more? How does it feel to type on?

 

I believe I am. It is an awesome device, hardware-wise, but the software still need some ironing out, but it is surprisingly bugfree. But the keyboard driver/app definitely need some work. I plan to compose some sort of mini-review over the next few days, when I find the time for it. also comparing it with some older devices.

 

[netman 1,424]

netman wrote:

Wow you so lucky to get to see one already :)! Are you at liberty to tell us more? How does it feel to type on?

I believe I am. It is an awesome device, hardware-wise, but the software still need some ironing out, but it is surprisingly bugfree. But the keyboard driver/app definitely need some work. I plan to compose some sort of mini-review over the next few days, when I find the time for it. also comparing it with some older devices.

 

It certainly looks awesome from all that's to see :D. The software isn't in a hurry i guess as even when the device is out OTA updates can be offered, etc. I'm really looking forward to see your mini-(p)review of it :). It'd be nice to know how the key-feel compares to older devices you have on hand, and how the form factor feels in the hand, even though I'll just be jumping up and down until Juli anyway xD.

[EskeRahn 5,460]

The software isn’t in a hurry i guess as even when the device is out OTA updates can be offered, etc.

 

Exactly my thoughts! The worst issue being if there are severe bugs that can affect reviews from influential sites and initial buyers damaging the reputation in ways influencing the sales. But overall the software/experience is very close to stock android, so that means a lot of potential bugs have already been handled by others. ;)

[MortisAngelus 2]

EskeRahn wrote:

netman wrote:

Wow you so lucky to get to see one already :)! Are you at liberty to tell us more? How does it feel to type on?

 

I believe I am. It is an

awesome

device, hardware-wise, but the software still need some ironing out, but it is surprisingly bugfree. But the keyboard driver/app definitely need some work. I plan to compose some sort of mini-review over the next few days, when I find the time for it. also comparing it with some older devices.

It certainly looks awesome from all that’s to see :D. The software isn’t in a hurry i guess as even when the device is out OTA updates can be offered, etc. I’m really looking forward to see your mini-(p)review of it :). It’d be nice to know how the key-feel compares to older devices you have on hand, and how the form factor feels in the hand, even though I’ll just be jumping up and down until Juli anyway xD.

 

Not to sound condescending - I really appreciate and admire all the amazing work that you do atm, but why is there (both here on the forum and in the live stream interview) such a huge topic/discussion about "optimizing apps for landscape" and "getting good keyboard support/navigation"? Why is this even a problem?

 

I ask this because:

 

1) I don't know about you, but I use my regular phone like 90 % of the time in landscape. I cannot type in portrait mode anyways; feels too small to type on a portrait touch keyboard. And apart from only a few apps (can't even remember one now) I have never felt that it wasn't optimized well enough for landscape mode - even with on-screen keyboard. So someone enlighten me what all these apps are that need so much landscape optimization.

 

2) My latest physical keyboard phone was a Sony Xperia Pro Mk16i back in 2013. It rocked Android 4.0 I believe. I never had any issues with the keyboard implementation on that device. This is just a personal opinion, but as long as the Pro1 works as good as that old phone, I am happy; meaning pretty much only that A) when keyboard is slid out, the phone locks itself into landscape mode, B) when slid out, the on-screen keyboard gets disabled. Anything else is just a luxury imo. And it also had key-arrow navigation of the OS.

 

Point is, if it was possible to make a fluid experience back in 2011 with something as clunky as Android 4.0, it shouldn't be that difficult in 2019, should it? Just get those two basic things (point A and B) to work properly at launch, and otherwise make Android 9 run smoothly (like any normal phone), and any special fancy stuff can be added on in updates.

 

@EskeRahn: What phones are you gonna compare the typing experience to?

[EskeRahn 5,460]

Not to sound condescending – I really appreciate and admire all the amazing work that you do atm, but why is there (both here on the forum and in the live stream interview) such a huge topic/discussion about “optimizing apps for landscape” and “getting good keyboard support/navigation”? Why is this even a problem?

 

I ask this because:

 

1) I don’t know about you, but I use my regular phone like 90 % of the time in landscape. I cannot type in portrait mode anyways; feels too small to type on a portrait touch keyboard. And apart from only a few apps (can’t even remember one now) I have never felt that it wasn’t optimized well enough for landscape mode – even with on-screen keyboard. So someone enlighten me what all these apps are that need so much landscape optimization.

 

2) My latest physical keyboard phone was a Sony Xperia Pro Mk16i back in 2013. It rocked Android 4.0 I believe. I never had any issues with the keyboard implementation on that device. This is just a personal opinion, but as long as the Pro1 works as good as that old phone, I am happy; meaning pretty much only that A) when keyboard is slid out, the phone locks itself into landscape mode, B) when slid out, the on-screen keyboard gets disabled. Anything else is just a luxury imo. And it also had key-arrow navigation of the OS.

 

Point is, if it was possible to make a fluid experience back in 2011 with something as clunky as Android 4.0, it shouldn’t be that difficult in 2019, should it? Just get those two basic things (point A and B) to work properly at launch, and otherwise make Android 9 run smoothly (like any normal phone), and any special fancy stuff can be added on in updates.

 

@eskerahn: What phones are you gonna compare the typing experience to?

 

on 1) Well a lot of apps out there are done by lazy programmers/designers only thinking of Portrait, Some do landscape, but just widening things with a lot of 'white space', scaling or even stretching, not even changing the column-width of their texts, An example is the Danish national broadcast app "DR Radio", only supporting portrait (their DR TV does support landscape though) - see below. The app from the national railways as well as the largest Danish bank, has similar issues... with no alternatives.

So you have to seek out apps that works well, or rethink the design of the app if it is something you got control off

 

on 2) I got an SE Xperia (Neo) Pro from 2011 too. So this, the BB Priv, and the Samsung S8- with a click-on keyboard is my plan.

 

The below are unsharp shrunken images not taken with a real camera, just the S8-, but you can enjoy the backlight none the less :)

And YES I've put a flat screenprotector on it, not a perfect fit, I did not dare risk this hard to get to device...

 

[attachment file=IMG_20190516_181339_HDR~01.jpg]

 

[attachment file=IMG_20190516_181318_HDR~01.jpg]

[Nadsanm 8]

@eskerahn

 

how do you feel about scrolling for example websites with the device, do you have to use the onscreen-keyboard for example while browsing and writing something to the address bar?

 

How do you feel the phone feels on your hands? Are the sides curved so that it would feel comfortable? Or are they like a slab that is very unergonomic to hold? Both closed and opened (holding landscape and portrait)

 

What about the notification LED? Do you feel it is visible from a far distance away? Is the LED big and customisable one? I especially love the LED on my Samsung S3. It is big and easily visible´from all angles and even far away. Hate the LG G5 for such a small notification LED that you can't even see.

 

Is the phone experiencing any heating or extreme warming with the usage you have?

[MortisAngelus 2]

@eskerahn:

 

I guess I must have been lucky to only have used well-made apps then, since I cannot remember running into such an issue. Now that I think about it, I might have had some less important apps that have been locked to portrait. I believe my Espresso house app is locked into portrait mode, but there it doesn't matter, because you usually do not write in that one, just point and click. And for that, portrait is actually better

 

Just because it has a keyboard doesn't mean you should/must use keyboard everywhere and always, does it? :P The radio app you show seems very similar; very well optimized for a touch interface. Do you need to type a lot of text in that one? Is it like spotify where you must search for songs or something? Because then I understand the annoyance.

 

 

 

@eskerahn

 

how do you feel about scrolling for example websites with the device, do you have to use the onscreen-keyboard for example while browsing and writing something to the address bar?

 

 

A) Why would you not scroll with the touchscreen? For scrolling, touch is obviously better suited than arrows. On a computer, do you use page up/down too, or do you use scroll wheel on mouse? Of course you should be able to scroll with the keyboard too, but I would expect it to just jump between links. But considering you can scroll web pages with a game pad (e.g. I connected my xbox controller to my phone and web page scrolling works) I have no doubt this device can do it too.

 

B) As long as they get android to recognize the keyboard (again, already achieved back in 2011 and before), it should work as any other keyboard for a phone. The same as when you connect a bluetooth keyboard to your phone.

 

And if it doesn't do that now, I am very sure they will have it fixed by launch.

 

p.s.

I am sorry if I sound a bit rude, but I mean nothing bad. I just think it is interesting that these two things are worrying you.

 

 

[VaZso 1,998]

A) Why would you not scroll with the touchscreen? For scrolling, touch is obviously better suited than arrows. On a computer, do you use page up/down too, or do you use scroll wheel on mouse? Of course you should be able to scroll with the keyboard too, but I would expect it to just jump between links. But considering you can scroll web pages with a game pad (e.g. I connected my xbox controller to my phone and web page scrolling works) I have no doubt this device can do it too.

 

I really miss the feature in my current phone of scrolling by keys instead of touchscreen.

I still remember how convenient was to read something on my N900 and use arrow keys for scrolling down the text.

That way there is no sidewise movement of the screen content by mistake, no unwanted zoom modifications, no unwanted popup menu of copy text, etc. I often run into these issues in my current phone or at least more often than I want. :)

 

Also, several webpages has mobile view of fixed size which is good sometimes, but not in every case - for example by using it in a car on a bad road.

If I switch the browser to desktop mode, I can zoom in, can get the correct zoom, want to move up/down which is easy on a keyboard, but harder on a touch screen if X and Y direction can also be changed, especially if the seat is moving under you a bit on a not well-made road...

 

So, in such a situation I really miss this keyboard navigation which my old N900 had years ago.

It also makes reading more convenient in steady state, at least for me - so it is a very good function.

 

...and yes, if I read a PDF on a computer, there is also sometimes more convenient to use arrows and/or page up / down buttons, the same as in a phone while browsing a web page or reading a document.

[EskeRahn 5,460]

@eskerahn

 

how do you feel about scrolling for example websites with the device, do you have to use the onscreen-keyboard for example while browsing and writing something to the address bar?

 

How do you feel the phone feels on your hands? Are the sides curved so that it would feel comfortable? Or are they like a slab that is very unergonomic to hold? Both closed and opened (holding landscape and portrait)

 

What about the notification LED? Do you feel it is visible from a far distance away? Is the LED big and customisable one? I especially love the LED on my Samsung S3. It is big and easily visible´from all angles and even far away. Hate the LG G5 for such a small notification LED that you can’t even see.

 

Is the phone experiencing any heating or extreme warming with the usage you have?

 

In FF (have not tested with other browsers) you can scroll with arrows or traditional touch. And YES the good old Tab and Shift-Tab is indeed supported - at the least in some apps and to some extent. I used it to jump through fields in setting up the details of my mail-accounts in my K9-mail.

 

Despite it (for my hands) is clearly a two handed phablet, it feels quite comfy to hold, As a slab, the 'edge' mentioned and the extra thickness give a good grip, But I'm not going to operate it as a phone with one hand.

 

The notification LEDs are very bright, I got no idea how the LED can be used

 

Surprisingly very little heating, even at the most intesive things i have done so far. But I\m not a gamer, so are not a heavy user.

[VaZso 1,998]

@EskeRahn:

That sounds good, thank you.

 

Although it may still have some modifications, what is your opinion about the current image quality of the rear camera?

Does GPS reception work well - if you know, what are the supported GNSS / GPS systems?

[EskeRahn 5,460]

@MortisAngelus

Oh i do not mean that every app HAVE to be in landscape, but if you primarily use it for typing, it would seem silly to change to close the keyboard, change to portrait, switch to the internet radio app, switch channel, and then open and turn into landscape to continue what you were doing.

 

But SURE if you take the phone from the pocket just to use one of these portrait only apps with touch only, it would not be an issue, that the program designers were lazy/incompetent.

 

But frankly only for very special apps I see good reasons to NOT offer both portrait and landscape - and that is primilly like TV-apps where you do not really need portrait. But sure there are rare stuff out there that naturally cries for portrait only, e.g. something emulating an old standard pocket calculator. as the visual emulation would be broken rearranging stuff in landscape.

 

on the a) you could turn the question around and say why not offer both options? I'm sure there are scenarios where one are more convenient than the other. But I bet that for the majority of websites, it is easier to navigate with touch. But if you are to read a long text, just use an arrow to move is quite conveinient.

 

on b) yes luckily they have not removed support for real keyboards in Android, but its clearly touch-oriented. Just as it is hard to operate Windows with keyboard only so is Android.

 

[EskeRahn 5,460]

@eskerahn:

 

That sounds good, thank you.

 

Although it may still have some modifications, what is your opinion about the current image quality of the rear camera?

 

Does GPS reception work well – if you know, what are the supported GNSS / GPS systems?

 

The images looks better than I expected, but I have not done any real testing, and anyway it would not be quite fair to conclude much currently, as they are clearly not done tuning stuff. The apps I have tried only use one of the cameras.

[VaZso 1,998]

Thank you.

 

Naturally, image quality can change a lot and it depends on the current state of implementation, but basically RAW data should be good enough to provide appropriate end result. (It also depends on hardware implementation like wiring, the noise / filtering of power line and also other possible noises. Also, noise in the image may also depend on configuration or actual settings.)

 

So, mainly if you feel image quality is not bad, that is a good news for us. :-)

[netman 1,424]

netman wrote:

The software isn’t in a hurry i guess as even when the device is out OTA updates can be offered, etc.

Exactly my thoughts! The worst issue being if there are severe bugs that can affect reviews from influential sites and initial buyers damaging the reputation in ways influencing the sales. But overall the software/experience is very close to stock android, so that means a lot of potential bugs have already been handled by others. ;)

 

Fair point that reviewers will probably be more critical about the software than we would :D. Hopefully it's all nice and polished by the time the critics come along, as this is the first time in a loooong time mainstream phone users will have an opportunity to even consider a physical keyboard device and join our camp :).

[Doktor Oswaldo 904]

A) Why would you not scroll with the touchscreen? For scrolling, touch is obviously better suited than arrows. On a computer, do you use page up/down too, or do you use scroll wheel on mouse? Of course you should be able to scroll with the keyboard too, but I would expect it to just jump between links. But considering you can scroll web pages with a game pad (e.g. I connected my xbox controller to my phone and web page scrolling works) I have no doubt this device can do it too.

 

This has nothing to do with the phone itself, it is a browser feature, but navigation with the keyboard can be way superior. As a heavy vim user I use the keyboard for almost all navigation:

gt -> next tab, gT -> previous tab, t -> newtab, o -> new address in the same tab. j -> scroll one line down, J -> Scroll a page down... and some dozen keybindings more for the rest.

 

This will be possible on the phone since the add-on (tridactyl) is compatible to the mobile Firefox Browser.

 

But my point is: Only because you are used to the mouse as navigation device, it does not mean it is superior.

Most people are used to a touchscreen as typing device, but we all know that the keyboard is better.

 

So while not a lot of people will use the keyboard to navigate the browser with a few dozen shortcuts, there still are plenty of people who will use the keyboard to navigate the browser in some form.

 

 

 

[MortisAngelus 2]

But frankly only for very special apps I see good reasons to NOT offer both portrait and landscape – and that is primilly like TV-apps where you do not really need portrait. But sure there are rare stuff out there that naturally cries for portrait only, e.g. something emulating an old standard pocket calculator. as the visual emulation would be broken rearranging stuff in landscape.

 

on the a) you could turn the question around and say why not offer both options? I’m sure there are scenarios where one are more convenient than the other. But I bet that for the majority of websites, it is easier to navigate with touch. But if you are to read a long text, just use an arrow to move is quite conveinient.

 

on b) yes luckily they have not removed support for real keyboards in Android, but its clearly touch-oriented. Just as it is hard to operate Windows with keyboard only so is Android.

 

Oh don't get me wrong; I also find it odd that there are such apps that don't support landscape; as I mentioned before, I use my phone 90+ percent in landscape. But I also have not had any real issues with such apps apart from the occasional exception.

 

So yes - it is great that fxtec offers to fix this, but I also feel like it really isn't their task to do that, instead of optimizing their own hard- and software and to implement it in a fluid way to apps already supporting landscape.

 

 

[EskeRahn 5,460]

So yes – it is great that fxtec offers to fix this, but I also feel like it really isn’t their task to do that, instead of optimizing their own hard- and software and to implement it in a fluid way to apps already supporting landscape.

 

It is not that FxTec can fix it, but I think they plan to have some apps like a mail client.

 

PERSONALLY it sounds like a waste of time, as mail clients like K9-mail that works great landscape and with keyboard already exists. But i'm sure they got their reasons, and we will see what apps they will offer and what special treats these will offer over 'standard' apps.

[Doktor Oswaldo 904]

MortisAngelus wrote:

So yes – it is great that fxtec offers to fix this, but I also feel like it really isn’t their task to do that, instead of optimizing their own hard- and software and to implement it in a fluid way to apps already supporting landscape.

It is not that FxTec can fix it, but I think they plan to have some apps like a mail client.

 

PERSONALLY it sounds like a waste of time, as mail clients like K9-mail that works great landscape and with keyboard already exists. But i’m sure they got their reasons, and we will see what apps they will offer and what special treats these will offer over ‘standard’ apps.

 

I am only guessing, but one reason may be what apps they are allowed to preinstall. For the reviews and the masses it is important to have a software installed which works. I could imagine that they can't just preinstall an app from the store. But in the podcast they said, that the google mail apps works well in landscape, so I don't get the case of the mail app either.

[MortisAngelus 2]

EskeRahn wrote:

MortisAngelus wrote:

So yes – it is great that fxtec offers to fix this, but I also feel like it really isn’t their task to do that, instead of optimizing their own hard- and software and to implement it in a fluid way to apps already supporting landscape.

 

It is not that FxTec can fix it, but I think they plan to have some apps like a mail client.

 

PERSONALLY it sounds like a waste of time, as mail clients like K9-mail that works great landscape and with keyboard already exists. But i’m sure they got their reasons, and we will see what apps they will offer and what special treats these will offer over ‘standard’ apps.

I am only guessing, but one reason may be what apps they are allowed to preinstall. For the reviews and the masses it is important to have a software installed which works. I could imagine that they can’t just preinstall an app from the store. But in the podcast they said, that the google mail apps works well in landscape, so I don’t get the case of the mail app either.

 

I use both gmail and outlook mail app, and both work flawlessly in landscape. As does the SMS app, whatsapp, discord, twitter, skype, and slack (damn I have lots of communication apps...)

 

Twitch app is the only one I am not happy with, but most things with the twitch app is really bad imo, so landscape mode is the least of my concerns there...