A bit of qwerty phone history

[DieBruine 397]

As long as it's safe to use the Pro1 I will use it. I went from Photon to S6+ with keyboard cover to Priv. The Photon was way too slow. The S6+ did not have backlighting and was prone to malfunction. The Prive went to my daughter when her phone broke down. Now I bought four of these phones. Me, my wife and two kids. A discount on Pro2, of Pro3 would be nice. Untill then, these will not be sold. They either stay in my (our) collection. Or they are sent back for a discount :D .

I waited a long time on Livermorium. I however did not backup via Indiegogo (because of Livermorium). But after Düsseldorf I decided to take the plunge and order the additional phones. This will be their birthday and christmas present for ow, let's say the next 5 years :) .

 

Nobody in my vicinity will be surprised to see me with a slider. They will however be surprised to see how brand new it looks. I'm guessing that goes for all forum-members and/or visitors.

 

[_DW_ 628]

Spotted this article https://www.techradar.com/news/project-ara-not-dead-this-google-patent-hints-at-a-modular-smartphone I don't expect much of it but you never know what's going on behind the scenes :)

 

[netman 1,424]

Spotted this article https://www.techradar.com/news/project-ara-not-dead-this-google-patent-hints-at-a-modular-smartphone I don’t expect much of it but you never know what’s going on behind the scenes :)

 

I've always though project ara is kinda doomed because of two reasons:

 

- Almost any manufacturer capable of doing this is likely to just release an incompatible next version a few years later, and I can't really conveive of very useful modules they could add (other than a keyboard, camera button etc, and pro1 is a much better idea in that way just adding everything you'd want off the bat as an integrated solution).

 

- Technically it's quite challenging because of software, cost and the way hardware is integrated with phones being mostly centered around a SoC, adding a display, storage, camera etc and in the last few years only the SoC is really what gets much upgrades over generations of phones, and changing that would likely mean a whole kernel is needed. Nevermind the difficulty of engineering something like this to be reasonably strong, and making it still modular without adding a lot of extra bulk by packaging things like the camera and battery separately.

 

They're not insurmountable issues, but I find it hard to imagine it's an economically viable plan as in the added cost just not being worth the benefits; I don't really see the advantage of it other than the device being a lot easier to repair for non-technical people. But maybe I'm just a pessimist, anything not a boring old slab coming to market is a good thing still :).

[EskeRahn 5,453]

EskeRahn wrote:

Well I see it from another angle: The more we can get to buy a Pro1, the higher the chance there will be a Pro2, Pro3,…. when we want to upgrade…

Also, it would be nice to get a discount if we buy a second Pro1 ;)

 

I bet they do combined shipping... ;-p

 

How many I will buy depends on the future of the whole project. If it is the end of the line for qwerty sliders I expect to buy more than if there is a good chance for a pro2, pro3, ... I think I will start with just two....

[david 929]

Spotted this article https://www.techradar.com/news/project-ara-not-dead-this-google-patent-hints-at-a-modular-smartphone I don’t expect much of it but you never know what’s going on behind the scenes :)

 

Yes, I saw that this winter too. I'm still holding out hope that it will happen some day. Modularity is the reason the PC industry took off the way it did in the past. People overspending in the present seems to have allowed the phone makers to get away with not doing this, but hopefully people will wake up and start pushing back.

[VaZso 1,998]

Also, it would be nice to get a discount if we buy a second Pro1 ;)

 

I am with you. :-)

 

For me, I am thinking of buying another Pro1 if I receive my preorder and I still like it after a few weeks. If we may have some discount, it would help in the final decision - even the existence of additional layout options may help in it. :)

 

A discount on Pro2, of Pro3 would be nice.

 

You are true. :-)

[david 929]

DW wrote:

Spotted this article

https://www.techradar.com/news/project-ara-not-dead-this-google-patent-hints-at-a-modular-smartphone

I don’t expect much of it but you never know what’s going on behind the scenes :)

I’ve always though project ara is kinda doomed because of two reasons:

 

– Almost any manufacturer capable of doing this is likely to just release an incompatible next version a few years later, and I can’t really conveive of very useful modules they could add (other than a keyboard, camera button etc, and pro1 is a much better idea in that way just adding everything you’d want off the bat as an integrated solution).

The point of it was that there would be standards and certifications so that you wouldn't have incompatibilities at that level. It also didn't start out with just modules. CPU, memory, storage, camera, screen, etc. should all be modularized. They were wimping out near the end of the project, where it became just modules and not core elements, that could be replaced, but I'm guessing the hope was that was just a stepping stone.

 

I'm sure people couldn't conceive of all the peripherals that PCs could have added before they were conceived too. By opening it up, we'd find out what is possible.

 

I agree that SOC does affect all of this, but there is no reason they couldn't have a way to override some of that vertical integration with external equivalents, provided the standards are in place and the communication pathways can handle the bandwidth.

 

If the Pro1 has everything exactly as someone wants it and they don't need anything different in X years and it doesn't wear out or break, then yes, it is nice to have it all together like that. But the reality is that most people don't like *every* feature of the pro 1 (curved screen and physical size to name a couple of the more prominent ones) or any phone, for that matter. And I'm hesitant to believe that parts of it won't wear out over time, given experience with other phones.

 

And we, as a society, spend way too much money on phones (and cellular service...at least in the USA) than is probably warranted. I think it would be nice to get back to reality, where you can replace the parts as needed and with what is available at the time. It would definitely change the landscape, but I think we've reached the point where the phones are mature and there are diminishing returns on hardware advances. Getting back to economy, functionality, and longevity would seem to be a good path for consumers.

 

[netman 1,424]

The point of it was that there would be standards and certifications so that you wouldn’t have incompatibilities at that level. It also didn’t start out with just modules. CPU, memory, storage, camera, screen, etc. should all be modularized. They were wimping out near the end of the project, where it became just modules and not core elements, that could be replaced, but I’m guessing the hope was that was just a stepping stone.

I get that, but I think it's an incredibly difficult challenge to do properly both mechanically (modules doubtfully could all be the same size so you'd need a tiny backplane that is still strong) and electronically (you'd have to route either all interfaces all over the place, or conceive a multipurpose high speed bus and the hardware+software to back it), and drivers would be a major challenge too if more than one manufacturer became involved as OS updates would mean new kernel modules are to be built every time.

 

That said.. I think the way to such a thing is probably trough stepping stones, the moto z is probably the closest thing to that which happened, I think that one had the right idea and we need more of such.

 

I’m sure people couldn’t conceive of all the peripherals that PCs could have added before they were conceived too. By opening it up, we’d find out what is possible.

This is true, especially if the concept would be open for other manufacturers it would be an opportunity for new concepts to be born.

 

I agree that SOC does affect all of this, but there is no reason they couldn’t have a way to override some of that vertical integration with external equivalents, provided the standards are in place and the communication pathways can handle the bandwidth.

 

If the Pro1 has everything exactly as someone wants it and they don’t need anything different in X years and it doesn’t wear out or break, then yes, it is nice to have it all together like that. But the reality is that most people don’t like *every* feature of the pro 1 (curved screen and physical size to name a couple of the more prominent ones) or any phone, for that matter. And I’m hesitant to believe that parts of it won’t wear out over time, given experience with other phones.

 

And we, as a society, spend way too much money on phones (and cellular service…at least in the USA) than is probably warranted. I think it would be nice to get back to reality, where you can replace the parts as needed and with what is available at the time. It would definitely change the landscape, but I think we’ve reached the point where the phones are mature and there are diminishing returns on hardware advances. Getting back to economy, functionality, and longevity would seem to be a good path for consumers.

Just standards isn't everything, over the course of like 10 years you would end up with perhaps a CPU that can only run older versions of android and perhaps a few broken and replaced screens over time where the newer super ultra 16k magicled screens exist but nobody willing to write the drivers to make it work on the older android etc. Comparing to PCs for example though... If the ecosystem surrounding these things would adapt to this somewhat it it's not unrealistic to actually maintain this (and if modular phones become a mainstream thing that'd certainly happen). As for the money point though, I would think something the likes of the original vision of project ara would not end up being much cheaper than replacing a phone every few years due to the need for a standard interconnect and individually housed components. Over time this could probably catch up with the strategy of not getting the cheapest phone and having it repaired when it breaks, but the beginning would be hard.

 

I do plan to use the pro1 for as long as it'll realistically last me, and if I like a phone it most definitely gets repaired if the screen breaks or the battery wears out. I'm sure there are plenty of people here in the forum who know you can cling to a phone for well over 5 years :D.

[Doktor Oswaldo 904]

The modularity is a nice dream. But the reality is, that it is huge we can change the battery on the pro1 without using a hot air gun.

Releasing a modular phone would mean going in the exact opposite direction than the market is going. Sure the pro1 does the same, but the keyboard offers an instant benefit. The modular phone has just disadvantages in the beginning (design, thickness etc..).

If a small startup would do this, I would never buy it, because I doubt that there will be any modules at all.

Sure google could do that, just to disrupt the market.

 

I think it would be better to focus on repairability first, with project like the pro1 and shiftphones (https://www.shiftphones.com/).

 

I would be glad when the market could go back to 2010 where batteries where exchangeable, smartphones where 5", keyboards a normal thing and prices where human. Just revert the massive stupid iphone impact.

If we are back there, modularity may be a next step...

[david 929]

Agreed that it would be difficult for a small company to build their own modularity framework. It wouldn't be feasible for 3rd parties to jump on board with building modules. Even with Motorola, that's a challenge. However, if google did it and made it part of the ecosystem, then it should start off just fine.

 

It is funny how everyone is so concerned with thickness of phones, but the world is okay with monster width and height. I guess you do get more screen in those dimensions, but it still seems funny how obsessed they've become with thickness.

 

I do agree that, in the meantime, companies that focus on repairability are good for consumers. Hopefully fxtec can make some modifications in future versions of the phone, where the battery replacement is as simple as popping off the keyboard or something equally as simple, such that the battery can be replaced easily when it wears out, but also can be replaced during an extended time away from a power source. This would allow someone to carry fully charged spare batteries with them and swap them out after discharge. We do have external battery packs now that didn't exist before, so that does help fill this gap.

 

It will be interesting to see if fxtec publishes repair guides for the screen, battery, hinge, whatever cable connects the screen to the base, and maybe even the keyboard. Oh, and another really good thing to be able to fix easily is the damn USB port. Hopefully USB C ports will hold up better than the awful USB Micro ports, but it would still be nice to be able to easily swap out that component. Maybe I'll start a topic to ask them their intentions.