E-sim support?

[acoppens 45]

So I'm posting this in General because

1.  this is purely a matter of curiosity on my part, and
2. I'm still (im)patiently 😉 waiting for all the logistics and production issues to pass so I can receive my device, so wouldn't really call it a support item.

Does the Pro1 have esim support? And if not, is this something that could be enabled at a later stage with a software update?

Some phones with the Snapdragon 835 SoC support esim, but not all of them:

https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=8733&idPhone2=8647&idPhone3=8523#*,*,g955u

https://www.manninfotech.net/lenovo-launched-miix-630-with-a-qualcomm-snapdragon-835/

- Would this be because

1. They are variations on top of the same base SoC? i.e. SD835 is compatible with eSim it but its not part of the SD835 SoC as such.
2. The Soc is capable of it but not all vendors/oems choose to implement it on the software side?  (Possible motivations below)
   1. Development costs outweigh the perceived benefit or value of the extra feature.
   2. Staying friendly with Telco's, who as I gather are not too keen on eSim - because it will effectively lower the transaction cost of changing providers for consumers. Effectively contributing to reduction of perceived value or benefit as mentioned in the above point.

The following code snippet shows part of the software implementation, I think, but I don't know to what extent this is dependent on the underlying hardware (see the first possible explanation above)

    <!-- Number of physical SIM slots on the device. This includes both eSIM and pSIM slots, and
         is not necessarily the same as the number of phones/logical modems supported by the device.
         For example, a multi-sim device can have 2 phones/logical modems, but 3 physical slots,
         or a single SIM device can have 1 phones/logical modems, but 2 physical slots (one eSIM
         and one pSIM) -->
    <integer name="config_num_physical_slots">2</integer>

Source: https://review.lineageos.org/c/LineageOS/android_device_oneplus_msm8998-common/+/237480/1/overlay/frameworks/base/core/res/res/values/config.xml

I'm completely fine with regular sim so at this point in time the issue is purely academic to me, but I'm curious anyway 😁.

 

[netman 1,424]

And if it does, can you have an esim, a normal sim, and a microSD card at the same time?

Edited December 5, 2019 by netman
i was typing faster than my brain

[acoppens 45]

Then you could maybe even go crazy with the Frankenstein solution suggested by @Swond and @EskeRahn in the speculation thread and have 

esim + dual sim + microsd 😄. Really have no idea what you would use it all for or why you would want it, ... because you can? 😋

 

[EskeRahn 5,460]

I'm pretty sure eSim is a separate chip, not in the standard chip-set. And no I have not heard mentioned that the Pro1 should have it. Could be cool, and would have helped those that need more than one carrier AND even more than the 128GB storage.

 

[Swond 120]

2 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

AND even more than the 128GB

Gonna try to ad 512GB and sync it with our company data what I need 👹😈😈😁

[VaZso 1,998]

1 hour ago, Swond said:

Gonna try to ad 512GB and sync it with our company data what I need 👹😈😈😁

I will also try it (512GB card is here and tested now), however, I should put somehow my own card and the company one simultaneously with microSD so it will not be easy. :S

[Swond 120]

30 minutes ago, VaZso said:

I will also try it (512GB card is here and tested now), however, I should put somehow my own card and the company one simultaneously with microSD so it will not be easy. :S

Thanks god I have only one number.. Will you try to remove the sim chip and split it with the SD? Let me then know how that works :)

[VaZso 1,998]

6 minutes ago, Swond said:

Thanks god I have only one number.. Will you try to remove the sim chip and split it with the SD? Let me then know how that works 🙂

I may try it but I really do not like that idea.
...but I am afraid that is the only potentially working method... 

I really hate the idea as then I will not really able to use that SIM but only in Pro1.
As far as I know, it will cost about 20 USD sooner or later to replace the card when I have a phone in which I would like to use the SIM.

...also, I have to do it in a working day when the service provider has open office in case something went wrong and they may have strange look at me when I will "lost" my card second time in a day. 

[EskeRahn 5,460]

1 hour ago, VaZso said:

I may try it but I really do not like that idea.
...but I am afraid that is the only potentially working method... 

I really hate the idea as then I will not really able to use that SIM but only in Pro1.
As far as I know, it will cost about 20 USD sooner or later to replace the card when I have a phone in which I would like to use the SIM.

...also, I have to do it in a working day when the service provider has open office in case something went wrong and they may have strange look at me when I will "lost" my card second time in a day. 

I would suggest to start with some out-dated sim and a small SD, so damage by destroying either would be very limited. Then you are more certain to do it right on the real cards.

I do not know if dual slots are identical for different vendors, but I would guess so. So most likely the created dual-card could be used in another device - but that is purely theoretical, as you of course will not want anything but the Pro1 for the next many years, unless they make a pro2 😜😜
...And by then the devices will have eSim, and 512GB will be considered small....

[Swond 120]

I guess that the basis should have been the same. Anyway, mostly it is about the preparation technique and that would be tried on any vendor and then working around all cards - eventho the chip system used by anotherone should be slightly different. And indeed, its a drastic method, but nothing better was found out for this case. Show me if I am wrong..

[VaZso 1,998]

13 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

I would suggest to start with some out-dated sim and a small SD, so damage by destroying either would be very limited. Then you are more certain to do it right on the real cards.

I do not know if dual slots are identical for different vendors, but I would guess so. So most likely the created dual-card could be used in another device - but that is purely theoretical, as you of course will not want anything but the Pro1 for the next many years, unless they make a pro2 😜😜
...And by then the devices will have eSim, and 512GB will be considered small....

Yes, first I will try with non-working cards before trying to do it on my own card (I have some pre-paid cards which I bought for testing purposes but were timed out before refill)...

I hope next time I will have a phone which will have two real SIM slots and a microSD card slot separately - maybe also eSIM support but currently I don't think it will become widespread in the next few years (at least not in my country). I don't know if other solutions of hybrid slots are identical or not anyway.

In addition of the above, I hope Pro2 will support two SIMs + uSD card simultaneously. 🙂
I think 512GB uSD cards may be a general thing in a few years, but I don't think they will be considered small for a while. 🙂

[Swond 120]

23 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

And by then the devices will have eSim, and 512GB will be considered small....

....and then possibly 512GB will be obviously used as an inner memory. Maybe even more that time. Ive seen 1TB microSD, so its only question of time.

[VaZso 1,998]

6 minutes ago, Swond said:

....and then possibly 512GB will be obviously used as an inner memory. Maybe even more that time. Ive seen 1TB microSD, so its only question of time.

Yes, internal memory will definitively grow up to this range and also 1TB microSD cards are available, but they are quite expensive now.

...but 512GB cards are definitively came close to a reasonable price range and only one year ago 256GB cards were in the same price range where 512GB cards currently are.
So that means 256GB cards are currently cost about half the price of last year's.

Edited December 5, 2019 by VaZso

[EskeRahn 5,460]

4 minutes ago, Swond said:

....and then possibly 512GB will be obviously used as an inner memory. Maybe even more that time. Ive seen 1TB microSD, so its only question of time.

Exactly my point. In three years we do not care if we in 2019 made a tiny ½TB dedicated to some purpose. And a Pro2 or 3 are likely to come with eSim (or something new) so the sim we got in 2019 will not work with 6G anyway 😇😜

[Polaris 423]

2 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

Exactly my point. In three years we do not care if we in 2019 made a tiny ½TB dedicated to some purpose. And a Pro2 or 3 are likely to come with eSim (or something new) so the sim we got in 2019 will not work with 6G anyway 😇😜

I'm happy with the current dual SIM setup; however, as a user of a phone that's almost eight years old now (Droid 4), it's nice when the manufacturers pack in the latest and greatest so that the devices can withstand the passing of time.  Also, I've never been one to just get a new phone strictly because a newer model is out (although this might be because there haven't been many newer physical keyboard phones released recently, and my stance might change with the release of the Pro2, lol).

[EskeRahn 5,460]

26 minutes ago, Polaris said:

I'm happy with the current dual SIM setup; however, as a user of a phone that's almost eight years old now (Droid 4), it's nice when the manufacturers pack in the latest and greatest so that the devices can withstand the passing of time.  Also, I've never been one to just get a new phone strictly because a newer model is out (although this might be because there haven't been many newer physical keyboard phones released recently, and my stance might change with the release of the Pro2, lol).

My point was that if people needs dual sim AND an SD, then the mechanical damaging of the Sim and SD to make a merge is not a big deal, as we are likely to be using the Pro1 for a number of years. And when we want to change, the sim as we know them today are history, and ½TB is likely to be cheap (if still available).

[Polaris 423]

1 hour ago, EskeRahn said:

My point was that if people needs dual sim AND an SD, then the mechanical damaging of the Sim and SD to make a merge is not a big deal, as we are likely to be using the Pro1 for a number of years. And when we want to change, the sim as we know them today are history, and ½TB is likely to be cheap (if still available).

Oh, I read it too quickly and thought it was in reference to an eSIM support.  I agree about with your statement in reference to dual SIMs and SD.

[Swond 120]

11 hours ago, VaZso said:

1TB microSD cards are available, but they are quite expensive now.

In my country it costs exactly twice a price of 512Gb, sooo.. Yes, it is not cheap, but at a time it has reasonable price. Would be much worse when it costs 3x more for double memory 😄

[Swond 120]

8 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

My point was that if people needs dual sim AND an SD, then the mechanical damaging of the Sim and SD to make a merge is not a big deal, as we are likely to be using the Pro1 for a number of years. And when we want to change, the sim as we know them today are history, and ½TB is likely to be cheap (if still available).

Yep, totally aggree. Just one thing is unclear. Nobody knows about durability of this solution. Of corse, wen you have no other chance, you have to merge two cards in one, but for sure the plastic surroundings is not only for making a shape, but also to hold stressing, bending, temperature changes and so on.. Nobody knows how the durability will be decreased by this solution. I was searching about that some time before, but did not find anything.

[EskeRahn 5,460]

37 minutes ago, Swond said:

Yep, totally aggree. Just one thing is unclear. Nobody knows about durability of this solution. Of corse, wen you have no other chance, you have to merge two cards in one, but for sure the plastic surroundings is not only for making a shape, but also to hold stressing, bending, temperature changes and so on.. Nobody knows how the durability will be decreased by this solution. I was searching about that some time before, but did not find anything.

Interesting perspective. I had no idea of the power consumption of either a SIM or an SD-card, and thus no idea if heat dispersion could be an issue. Definitely a potential issue with this hack/solution. Anybody with experience with hot or just warm cards after intensive usage? (And I do not mean if the entire device gets hot).

A little googling on SIM: 200µA in idle state 60mA during operation. from ETSI TS 102 221.

But SD cards seems worse, them seem to be on 200mA at the worst, so in worst case we would have about 0.9W heating combined.

[Swond 120]

3 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

Interesting perspective. I had no idea of the power consumption of either a SIM or an SD-card, and thus no idea if heat dispersion could be an issue. Definitely a potential issue with this hack/solution. Anybody with experience with hot or just warm cards after intensive usage? (And I do not mean if the entire device gets hot).

A little googling on SIM: 200µA in idle state 60mA during operation. from ETSI TS 102 221.

But SD cards seems worse, them seem to be on 200mA at the worst, so in worst case we would have about 0.9W heating combined.

Well, heat of the traffic itself is IMHO insignificant, I think more temperature diferences comes from pocket/outside/table/pocket/jacket/charging/pants etc etc. These changes would be much more diferent. But of corse, traffic is also issue, but I guess with no impact in this case.

3 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

But SD cards seems worse, them seem to be on 200mA at the worst, so in worst case we would have about 0.9W heating combined.

isn´t the device itself producing much more heating power? Means that the SD wil be always heated?

[_DW_ 628]

29 minutes ago, Swond said:

isn´t the device itself producing much more heating power? Means that the SD wil be always heated?

Depends on the proximity to the CPU but I would suspect that would be the case.  (There is a picture somewhere of the motherboard as I recollect)

[Swond 120]

Seems like China is preparing something convenient for us :) https://www.mobilmania.cz/clanky/supersim-vyresi-problem-se-sloty-a-pametovkami-dostane-se-i-mimo-cinu/sc-3-a-1347937/default.aspx (sorry for czech language) Cannot find any english written issue. And also cannot find any product in china-shops yet. Anyone knows more? :)

Edited April 1, 2020 by Swond

[Hook 3,021]

23 minutes ago, Swond said:

Seems like China is preparing something convenient for us 🙂https://www.mobilmania.cz/clanky/supersim-vyresi-problem-se-sloty-a-pametovkami-dostane-se-i-mimo-cinu/sc-3-a-1347937/default.aspx (sorry for czech language) Cannot find any english written issue. And also cannot find any product in china-shops yet. Anyone knows more? 🙂

Here's the source in English:

https://www.gizmochina.com/2020/03/31/supersim-combines-a-memory-card-and-sim-into-one-is-this-the-future/