Charging a Pro1 battery when the USB port doesn't work

[david 929]

Background:

My Pro1 USB port failed a little after a year of use.  I ordered a replacement port online, took the old one off, and soldered the new one in its place, using very rudimentary tools.  It worked better than the failed old one, but still wasn't as good as new.  I don't remember the details.  I think it required the USB cable to be inserted with a particular side up. 

Shortly after doing that, I received a replacement port and PCB from fxtec (it took a month and half to reach me after reaching out to them, I believe).  The new one worked perfectly.  I used that for over 2 years, and then it started failing too.  I reached out to fxtec, but they said they don't have any of those parts anymore.  It finally reached a point where it wouldn't work, no matter what I did, about a week ago.

I received my Pro1X in Fall of 2022 (8/10/022).  I hadn't opened the box yet.  I figured I'd keep that as a spare in case the Pro1 failed in some way.  I wasn't overjoyed with the blue color and the slower CPU either.  (as it turns out, I'm not noticing much of a slowdown with the CPU, after having used it a little, but hard to compare without them side by side)

I took the Pro1X out of the box and started using it.  I wasn't happy that cellular and wifi problems reported 8 months ago still haven't been addressed.  The Pro1 was never great with signal strength of cellular or wifi, but it was better than the Pro1X.

My plan was to get all the files off the old phone and transfer them to the new phone.  Some apps don't have built in backup/restore features, so it is a bit of a pain to do this.  At least it was when I went from my pre-Pro1 phone to the Pro1.  But now I have an additional problem of a depleted battery on the source phone.

The first thing I did was take apart the Pro1 and clamp the usb port to the PCB with a vice grips, hoping that would make better contact between the two.  That didn't help.  Next, I heated the bottom of the PCB directly under where the pins mate on top, hoping to re-establish connections.  No luck with that either.  I could take the port off and do another soldering job with a new port, but I wasn't completely successful the first time I did that.  I may end up sending the board to a repair shop, where they have the proper tools, to see if they can fix it.  I have no idea what I did with the original PCB that semi-worked after I replaced the port.  I am sure I thought I was putting it somewhere for safe keeping, but wherever that is has been lost to the sands of time in my organic flash memory.

Continued in next post....

[david 929]

Purpose of topic:

In the course of doing the above, my battery became depleted fully.  This meant I needed a way to charge up the battery so that I could get the files off the phone.  I looked online and found various gizmos that repair shops use.  These generally consist of a USB powered board, often with LEDs showing the voltage and current, and a bunch of the wonderful (/sarcasm) proprietary connectors they started putting on these batteries after companies stopped making easily replaceable battery phones.  I ordered 2 different makes/models of these boards.  I didn't know which connector might work, so I thought I better buy a couple.  I also bought a USB PCB board for a Motorola Moto E4.  It has a 40 pin connector on it, as does the Pro1 PCB.  I thought if I couldn't charge the battery through the external charging boards, I could plug a different USB PCB into the Pro1, and charge it that way.  I wouldn't be able to get something that would screw in place and line up with the opening in the case, but at least I could charge the battery with the phone taken apart.

The first charging board to arrive was this one ("Kaisiking Professional Battery Tester Battery Activation Charge Board, Phone Battery Repair Circuit Board with Power Current Cable Compatible for iPhone X 8 7 Plus 6 Plus 6S, iPad, Samsung, Oppo etc."):

The Motorola Moto E4 board arrived at the same time:

One other thing I should mention about these external charging boards.  They often have an "activation" feature.  If the battery has been depleted below what the "smart" circuitry will allow to start charging it, this feature allows you to to still charge the battery.  This could possibly be valuable for Pro1/ProX users who haven't set their phone to allow charging when the phone is powered off, and powering it on to charge it puts it below this threshold, or if the battery has simply lost charge when in non-use and gotten below the threshold.

I took the battery out of the phone and tried to match it up with the ports on the charging board.  When I first did this, I thought the metal strip that holds the connectors to the motherboard was glued to the battery connector.  This made it difficult to mate up the connector with the ports on the charging board.  I knew the board had reverse polarity correction, so I could flip the battery around to avoid the metal bar getting in the way.  I could have sworn I read that it had reverse polarity correction, but now I can't find that written anywhere.  Be careful if you plug the battery in when the battery is sitting on the side of the charger instead of in the middle of it.  Now, as it turns out, the metal bar is not glued to the connector.  It was just stuck there from years of pressure.  So if you are doing this, you should be able to separate the two parts and make your adventure easier.

Continued in next post...

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by david

[david 929]

I was comparing the ports with the naked eye, and had to do some trial and error.  I first tried the MI 8 port (this is for a Xiaomi MI 8 phone battery).  That didn't seem to fit.  Next, I tried the MI 6 port.  The bar got in the way, so I flipped it around and when I was trying to figure out if I had gotten it connected, I noticed the charging board LED had lit up, showing voltage!!

I grabbed an old USB charger that is limited to 1 amp.  This charging board allegedly has an overcurrent protection mechanism where it will shut down if the current goes over 2 amps, but I didn't want to push it.  I should also mention the port is a micro USB, not USB C style.  I plugged everything together and got this:

That photo might have been taken after it was charging for a while.  I don't remember.  As mentioned above, the LED on the right is the voltage (4.00 volts in the second photo) and the LED on the left is the current (0.55 amps).  I'm not sure what is limiting the current to only half an amp.  I tried a variety of chargers to power the board and ended up with half an amp each time.  This is consistent with a lot of old USB ports on laptops and car chargers, but I know the board can support more than this.  Either the way this is hooked up is being limited in the electronics in the battery or that is the max the board will draw from a regular USB charger.  You can get DC power generators (the board comes with cables to plug into one) where you can control the voltage and current.  My guess is I'd be able to push up to 2 amps at this battery with one of those.  But since I don't care so much about speed here, and simply wanted to charge up the battery to get my files off the Pro1, this was good enough.

The voltage slowly climbed up to 4.2 volts and then the current draw stopped.  I plugged the battery back into my dismantled Pro1, booted it up, and got this:

Technically, it showed 65% when I first powered it on.  The photo was taken a few minutes later.

My best guess at why it wasn't near 100% is because the board is assuming standard lithium-ion batteries.  Those have a charging limit of 4.2 volts.  The Pro1 battery is a lithium-ion polymer high voltage battery (LiHv).  It can go to 4.4 volts.  This may not seem like a big jump in voltage, but it has a larger impact on the capacity.  This is only a guess, but if I had an external charging board that could go to 4.4 volts, I bet I could charge the Pro1 battery fully.

For my purposes this was a successful outcome.  I should now be able to copy the files off the phone.  If I deplete the battery in the process, I can use the external board to charge it up again.

Regarding the Motorola Moto E4 board...  I did try plugging this into the 40 pin cable that comes from the main motherboard to the Pro1 USB PCB.  It didn't fit.  The middle, black bar in the plug is thicker than the one on the Pro1.  I've ordered another one online (for a Nokia 7 Plus).  We'll see if that fits.

Lastly, I've ordered a Xiaomi MI 6 battery (model BM39).  I know the connector will mate up with the Pro1 motherboard.  The battery seems to have a slightly higher capacity, and is physically smaller.  The cable isn't perfectly positioned and oriented.  But the first step is just to see if it will power the phone.  If it will, then I may look into creating an extension cable if the battery can't sit properly in the battery compartment when plugged into the motherboard.

I can find the MI 6 style connectors online.  What I'm not sure of is how to attach those to a ribbon cable.  I'm guessing it would require sourcing the right type of cable, hopefully with tinned ends, and soldering to the plugs, carefully.  If anyone has any ideas on how to connect the connectors to a cable (and a place to source the cable, or what to look for), in a way that is durable, please let me know.

The price of the battery was roughly $15, and includes some tools too.  The purpose of this is in case my original Pro1 battery dies.  Until I can get the USB port working, I can't really use the phone in a normal sense.  However, if this other battery works, then I could still power it up if I need to, even if the original battery dies.  The original battery has lost some capacity over the years, of course, so this could represent a boost in that area too.  It may help others who want to replace their batteries, if I can figure out how to make the new battery work with the phone all put together.

Here is the battery:

David

Edited June 4, 2023 by david

[EskeRahn 5,460]

This is awesome news! David. Tanks.
The big question is what connector the Pro1X uses, as they say the batteries are incompatible - but that might be the physical shape or the position of the connector, not the connector it self.

We really need something to fairly easy charge the Pro1X, unless they by firmware can fix that the Pro1X does not shut down in time, but can deplete it self.

[EskeRahn 5,460]

BTW tried looking at ebay and aliexpress, and this worked as search term: Battery Activation Charge Board phones

(I tried to see if I could find one with a switch for if it is LiPo, but did not find any).

[david 929]

50 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

This is awesome news! David. Tanks.
The big question is what connector the Pro1X uses, as they say the batteries are incompatible - but that might be the physical shape or the position of the connector, not the connector it self.

We really need something to fairly easy charge the Pro1X, unless they by firmware can fix that the Pro1X does not shut down in time, but can deplete it self.

Has anyone taken their pro1X apart yet?   

So we know the batteries aren't compatible, but not what makes them incompatible?  Has fxtec stated why they made them incompatible?

If the pro1X shuts down when the battery is low, will it not charge when off?  It goes past the battery threshold?  If so, I'll have to be very careful to never let it run down that low.  This is frustrating.  Does it happen every time someone let's it run down or rarely?

The external chargers, with an activation feature, should be able to revive those batteries.  But that would be a pain to take the phone apart every time it happens, if it happens most of the time the battery runs down.

[EskeRahn 5,460]

(And no , we have no info on what the difference nor why there is a difference. Could be as simple as a supplier stopped producing one or the Pro1 Parts.)

[david 929]

8 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

BTW tried looking at ebay and aliexpress, and this worked as search term: Battery Activation Charge Board phones

(I tried to see if I could find one with a switch for if it is LiPo, but did not find any).

The sunshine ss-909 model, which is what i originally wanted, but was going to take too long to arrive, does have two different input ports, and I believe one set allows for fast charging.  However, I think you are supposed to only use that side if the pcb containing your battery port is made to be used with it.  I did order one, but it will take some time to arrive.  Note:  No idea if it has a port that is compatible with the pro1 or pro1X.  I will report back when I get it.

Edited June 3, 2023 by david

[david 929]

Also on this topic, I saw somewhere that people were soldering wireless charging receivers onto their USB PCB boards.  That might be an option for pro1/1X owners whose USB port dies.  I might consider doing that if I can find a USB board for another phone that has the same kind of 40 pin connector that the Pro1 board does.  That way I don't risk ruining the Pro1 board completely if something goes wrong.

I don't know how well the signal could be received through the Pro1 case, however.

There are also antennas on the Pro1 USB board.  I haven't looked up what they are for yet.  I do know wifi works fine on my Pro1 with no USB board installed.  The mic is on the board too, but my mic hasn't worked for years.  I have to use the phone on speaker mode if I don't have a bluetooth headset connected.

It sure would be nice, if fxtec isn't going to get another batch of boards made, if they would put the design files on here, so we could approach some shops to see what they would charge for a run of boards.

@Casey - Any chance of that happening?

[EskeRahn 5,460]

8 hours ago, david said:

I don't know how well the signal could be received through the Pro1 case, however.

You will need to put the coil on the outside of the Pro1, as the metal back will not let the signal through, but if you mean a shell case for the Pro1, it should not block the field with normal materials. I do not know how much effect will be lost by heat generated by electric current induced in the back-plate, But apart from the coils themselves you will have an extra heat source. So though possible, it is unlikely to be recommendable, unless done for slow charging with low current chargers, say 0.5A, and preferably with the phone vertical, to have simple conductive air flow help dispersing some of the heat. Remember that about the worst you can do for Lithium batteries is charging them when above about 30°C

[Casey 321]

Thank you @david for this insightful post! I'm sure this is going to help a lot of people who have similiar battery issues on the Pro1.

On 6/4/2023 at 12:18 AM, david said:

It sure would be nice, if fxtec isn't going to get another batch of boards made, if they would put the design files on here, so we could approach some shops to see what they would charge for a run of boards.

Unfortunately, we do not plan to make any additional boards for Pro1 and Pro1-X. Though, we do have Pro1-X antenna boards in stock for repair and replacement. 

On 6/3/2023 at 11:59 PM, david said:

So we know the batteries aren't compatible, but not what makes them incompatible?  Has fxtec stated why they made them incompatible?

 

On 6/4/2023 at 12:03 AM, EskeRahn said:

(And no , we have no info on what the difference nor why there is a difference. Could be as simple as a supplier stopped producing one or the Pro1 Parts.)

The batteries on the Pro1-X have different connectors and protection boards compared to the Pro1. 

[david 929]

2 hours ago, Casey said:

Unfortunately, we do not plan to make any additional boards for Pro1 and Pro1-X. Though, we do have Pro1-X antenna boards in stock for repair and replacement. 

That's great news, @Casey.  By antenna boards, do you mean the USB port boards?  How do we order those?

2 hours ago, Casey said:

The batteries on the Pro1-X have different connectors and protection boards compared to the Pro1. 

Good timing on this.  Right before your message came through, I was able to piece together what I think the Pro1X connector is from a photo in another topic on here.  I'll reply to that topic and include the information in this thread too.

[david 929]

From another topic on here, and thanks to @Whitey and @claude0001, I am guessing the Pro1X battery connector is the same as the OPPO R17 phone.

Here is where I make my case for that match:

 

[david 929]

On 6/3/2023 at 2:34 PM, david said:

Lastly, I've ordered a Xiaomi MI 6 battery (model BM39).  I know the connector will mate up with the Pro1 motherboard.  The battery seems to have a slightly higher capacity, and is physically smaller.  The cable isn't perfectly positioned and oriented.  But the first step is just to see if it will power the phone.  If it will, then I may look into creating an extension cable if the battery can't sit properly in the battery compartment when plugged into the motherboard.

I got my numbers mixed up.  It is physically smaller in the long direction, but bigger in the width direction.  I don't think it will fit in the Pro1 enclosure.  It might still be usable to power a Pro1 if the original battery dies, but it wouldn't work with the phone all put together.  We'd need a battery that is long and skinny, like the Pro1 battery, and then convert the cable to the right connector.

This explains how they were able to cram so much power into such a small battery.  They weren't! 🤣

Edited June 5, 2023 by david

[Casey 321]

19 hours ago, david said:

That's great news, @Casey.  By antenna boards, do you mean the USB port boards?  How do we order those?

The 'main' antenna is the PCB that has the USB-C port and there's also a diversity antenna on the headphone jack PCB. Here's a photo of both of them. The actual antennas are the tiny metal pins stuck with red glue, do be careful not to snap them off when assembling/dissembling your Pro1/Pro1-X.

We normally don't sell these, it's only for repair purposes. But I am happy to ship one to you if you're okay to cover shipping 🙂

Send us an email at info@fxtec.com, include your shipping address and provide me with the ticket ID. I'll be able to issue you an invoice. 

[david 929]

3 hours ago, Casey said:

The 'main' antenna is the PCB that has the USB-C port and there's also a diversity antenna on the headphone jack PCB. Here's a photo of both of them. The actual antennas are the tiny metal pins stuck with red glue, do be careful not to snap them off when assembling/dissembling your Pro1/Pro1-X.

We normally don't sell these, it's only for repair purposes. But I am happy to ship one to you if you're okay to cover shipping 🙂

Send us an email at info@fxtec.com, include your shipping address and provide me with the ticket ID. I'll be able to issue you an invoice. 

Thanks, @Casey.  What would the ticket ID be?

Edited June 6, 2023 by david

[Hook 3,020]

2 hours ago, david said:

Thanks, @Casey.  What would the ticket ID be?

When you email them, the zendesk autoresponder will will assign you a ticket ID.

[david 929]

@Casey, I have ticket 19555.  I've direct messaged you my other details that I included in the original email to info@fxtec.com.

 

Thanks!

David

[Noob 158]

@davidHow did you go with the MI 6 battery?  I may be having battery issues (see my other thread) and I'm wondering if this would be the fastest way I can get my phone back online.

[david 929]

On 7/27/2023 at 10:43 PM, Noob said:

@davidHow did you go with the MI 6 battery?  I may be having battery issues (see my other thread) and I'm wondering if this would be the fastest way I can get my phone back online.

It did power up with the MI 6 battery plugged in.  The battery doesn't fit in the case, so no way to close it up with that battery in place, but you should be able to boot the phone with that battery.  The battery plug overlaps the plug next to the phone motherboard battery connector.  You would either have to hold it in place or you might be able to put the bar over the top of it and screw it in place and that should hold it.  I'm not sure if you could trim the edge of the plug without damaging the wires going to the plug.

[John Veness 57]

Hi, I hope this doesn't count as a hijack, but I'm in a similar situation where I need to get some files off my old Pro1 as a one-off process but the USB port is dead.

I see that I can buy a Mi 6 battery for about £7 - do you think they're likely to come with some charge (as I won't be able to recharge it!)? If it did, I would hope it would last long enough for me to do the retrieval, and also do a factory wipe afterwards.

Alternatively, is anyone willing to loan me a replacement Pro1 USB PCB? Happy to pay a few GBP for postage to me and back again!

[MonCon 125]

10 hours ago, John Veness said:

I see that I can buy a Mi 6 battery for about £7 - do you think they're likely to come with some charge (as I won't be able to recharge it!)?

I'm pretty sure lithium-ion batteries are generally stored and shipped with a reasonable level of charge, as they can be problematic to recover when they go flat.  

[pebert 98]

On 8/20/2023 at 3:20 PM, John Veness said:

Alternatively, is anyone willing to loan me a replacement Pro1 USB PCB? Happy to pay a few GBP for postage to me and back again!

Hi

I guess you coul do it the other way around, send your PCB to me and I can replace your USB-connector

[pebert 98]

regarding chargeing the battery, I did it by soldering wires directly to the connection tabs on the battery cell.

 

the hooked it up to a lab PSU, 500mA @4.2 V

 

do requires soldering skills and and good knowledge on how to treat Lithium cells though.

[John Veness 57]

2 hours ago, pebert said:

I guess you coul do it the other way around, send your PCB to me and I can replace your USB-connector

Thanks very much for the offer. I managed to get the Pro 1 to charge a bit by holding the power cable at a particular angle, for long enough that I could get my data off it, so I'm OK now.