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11 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

You lost me there. What app are you missing? One to freely customize the keyboard or? There are offers of alternative layouts like FinQWERTY but that is limited to predefined layouts. So a limitted number of languages supported.

I am missing an app that provides keyboard customisation (re-defining keys/characters), predictions, possibly a bar with special characters for quick multilanguage use, a dead key to quickly type foreign characters or letters with accents, sticky modifier keys or the possibility to configure whether modifiers keys should be sticky or not, ...

There are apps like FinQWERTY that provide some of the missing functionality. But they are (very) difficult to use and I would have to combine several apps to get what I want. F(x)tec asked if we wanted a hardware keyboard, we threw money at them, and now ... we have a hardware keyboard of sorts ... end of story. Well, "end of story" for F(x)tec, and "painful smart"phone" experience" for me/us.

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7 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

Interesting, are you on stock? I have seen others with the same complaints as me. It could be that it is a matter of usage pattern.

If I use it in hands-free mode, and talk loud an clear as I would in a meeting it works fine. BUT if I talk in a normal voice I often get complaints from the other end that they can not clearly hear what I'm saying.

Also in hand held calls the proximity sensor teases me. (the sensor has to be quite close to be considered in 'near', would have nice if it was say 5cm)

Do people complain about an echo? That's the feedback I get when I use the speaker and my Pro1 is lying on a flat surface. A simple fix would be to use the upper speaker, instead of the lower speaker, which sits next to the microphone. Instead, I feel reminded of how Apple treats their customers: You are holding it wrong! ūüėČ

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5 minutes ago, daniel.schaaaf said:

Do people complain about an echo? That's the feedback I get when I use the speaker and my Pro1 is lying on a flat surface. A simple fix would be to use the upper speaker, instead of the lower speaker, which sits next to the microphone. Instead, I feel reminded of how Apple treats their customers: You are holding it wrong! ūüėČ

Could be that it is echo I have not asked for details, nor have I tried to experiment with someone else talking in my phone.

I think there is a huge difference in not fixing a bug, or aPple style claiming that it does not exist.

As to the WHY it has not been fixed is anyone's guess. Maybe they tried the swap and it did not help, or had other side effects, Maybe it never reached so high on the ToDo list that it was even attempted fixed.

 

14 minutes ago, daniel.schaaaf said:

I am missing an app that provides keyboard customisation (re-defining keys/characters), predictions, possibly a bar with special characters for quick multilanguage use, a dead key to quickly type foreign characters or letters with accents, sticky modifier keys or the possibility to configure whether modifiers keys should be sticky or not, ...

I actually had plans (and started the skeleton) for such an app before I even had the preproduction unit in early 2019. I intended it as a PC-app, and then planned to transfer the resulting file(s) to the phone.
All Android keyboard configuration are in plain text files (see this and this), Unfortuately it requires root privileges to add&modify, and at the tie I was unaware that we can actually get temporary root access through ADB.
The workaround for priviliges is (like FinQWERTY do) to have an app presenting these files logically to the system. But as I never have made an Android app AND FinQWERTY for 99% solved my needs, I dropped the project.

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30 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

Interesting, are you on stock? I have seen others with the same complaints as me. It could be that it is a matter of usage pattern.

As I said, I never intended to use stock, so I had it for a grand total of 5 minutes before switching to LineageOS. I did not try any phone calls in it.

I do not believe that the telephony stack is changed between stock and LineageOS (I think @tdm even confirmed that at some point). So, either I am just lucky with my Pro1, or it is indeed just a matter of usage pattern.

Maybe I also simply have too low expectations: with all the AV-conferences we do these days, I have by now made so many bad experiences with audio connections (phones, laptops, microphones, ...) that I've come to the conclusion that humanity forgot how to properly implement telephony somewhere around 1970 ... At least that old phone in my grand-ma's house always worked fine ... ūüôā

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1 hour ago, EskeRahn said:

All Android keyboard configuration are in plain text files (see this and this), Unfortuately it requires root privileges to add&modify, and at the tie I was unaware that we can actually get temporary root access through ADB.

Don't you have to remount \system rw for that? I thought that would break the (OTA) update process because even just remounting \system will change the partitions checksum.

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6 hours ago, EskeRahn said:
6 hours ago, claude0001 said:

I must say that I never had issues with voice calls. And do not even own a head set so I use only the built-in audio, either holding the phone to my ear or in hands-free speaker mode.

Interesting, are you on stock? I have seen others with the same complaints as me. It could be that it is a matter of usage pattern.

When I got the first call on my new used phone recently, I was surprised after all I had read that call-in audio was perfectly normal and ok for a smartphone (and the caller, while I didn't ask him about it, at least didn't complain about what he got from me, either). 

Several days later I got a phone call that was so loud I had to hold the phone away from my ear (on the lowest volume setting). Ah! I thought, so that's what everyone was complaining about. Now I see.

Now my yet unproven theory is that the difference depends on the specific technical properties of the call, and my suspicion is (I wouldn't even know what other properties there might be) that this is whether HD voice aka wideband audio is used or not by the caller, as the loud call's audio was also exceptionally clear and high-quality.

To test¬†my theory I've just switched off the¬†4G calling¬†option in my mobile network's settings, which should disable wideband audio. I'll report back how it goes, but this might need some time to test, a few days minimum, maybe even a few weeks to be really sure. Then again, I guess this would be too easy ūüėȬ†

Edited by Rob. S.
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On 3/11/2021 at 5:39 PM, daniel.schaaaf said:

one thing F(x)tec could have done to stand out, besides the actual hardware keyboard, would have been their software support. Dear F(x)tec, you disappointed in so many ways, it is boggling the mind.

Anyone with a bit of experience in the industry could have told you from the start that software was going to be a problem. FxTec knew that too and that is why they made sure open source solutions are available.

Projects like the Pro1 where a handful of people can deliver such an advanced device are made possible today because we have hardware platforms that are available with ready to use software platforms. That is very convenient for both small and large smart device manufacturers as they can get started with their project very easily. The keyword here is 'started'. Cause once you boot your OS on your hardware you still need to bring its feature to production quality level. That fine tuning of the software with your specific hardware is known to be 80% of the project time and expenses. Companies like FxTec just can't afford to get it done so you get more or less just off the shelves software which has rough edges indeed.

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4 hours ago, daniel.schaaaf said:

Don't you have to remount \system rw for that? I thought that would break the (OTA) update process because even just remounting \system will change the partitions checksum.

Could well be, I have not experimented with it, but it would make sense if it broke the checksum.

Most likely it would be a more safe way to have it delivered through an App, the FinQWERTY way.

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21 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

Could well be, I have not experimented with it, but it would make sense if it broke the checksum.

Most likely it would be a more safe way to have it delivered through an App, the FinQWERTY way.

Changing the checksum of the system partition only breaks OTAs when they actually patch the partition itself, and not individual files within the partition. I tried to find out how LineageOS updates work, but I did not manage to get any useful information. I remember original Motorola OTAs failing to install on Moto Z phones that had a modified system partition.

When it comes to safety, there is no difference between me remounting /system, or an app doing so. If FinQWERTY does its job without root, then it is safe to use and won't/can't modify /system.

 

21 hours ago, Slion said:

Anyone with a bit of experience in the industry could have told you from the start that software was going to be a problem. FxTec knew that too and that is why they made sure open source solutions are available.

Projects like the Pro1 where a handful of people can deliver such an advanced device are made possible today because we have hardware platforms that are available with ready to use software platforms. That is very convenient for both small and large smart device manufacturers as they can get started with their project very easily. The keyword here is 'started'. Cause once you boot your OS on your hardware you still need to bring its feature to production quality level. That fine tuning of the software with your specific hardware is known to be 80% of the project time and expenses. Companies like FxTec just can't afford to get it done so you get more or less just off the shelves software which has rough edges indeed.

Nope. You make it sound as if foresight has been part of the decision making. I disagree. F(x)tec bought Android because this is what is available on the marked, and because it is not the most expensive OS out there. There is a huge difference between F(x)tec using open source and making information available to the community. There are enough closed source binaries intermingled with Android to make things difficult. And even the open source part of the OS can be worthless without basic documentation.

I don't remember F(x)tec communicating that they "just can't afford to get it done". Should this not have been the first sentence on their project announcements?

No, I did not expect F(x)tec to provide "the best Android experience ever" from the get go. Yes, I know how much manpower costs and how big projects work*. But we are talking about a phone that has been with customers for over a year now. There are many things that are easy to fix, thanks to all the bug reports. My complaint is not just that only little have been done, but that nothing has been done! When we talk about open source, why not employ a coder for a few months? Get basic things like TWRP running, so that the community can mess with their phones without having to re-install everything. Fix the biggest issues to make the Pro1 at least work as an ordinary phone. You want the community to fix your product? Give us more than a free device for a few selected people! Because, obviously, this is not working out at all.

(* One thing that happens in bigger projects is that you reach a point where you have to decide whether to proceed with "good enough", or chancel the project. If you proceed with "good enough" and you actually mean "people will still buy the product, even though it does not deliver on it promises", things get ugly. Very ugly. We have gone past ugly now. F(x)tec is developing new hardware as we speak. I understand that they have to do so because they depend on what Qualcomm delivers. Time will tell if this strategy works out for them. It did not work out for me.)

 

22 hours ago, Rob. S. said:

When I got the first call on my new used phone recently, I was surprised after all I had read that call-in audio was perfectly normal and ok for a smartphone (and the caller, while I didn't ask him about it, at least didn't complain about what he got from me, either). 

Several days later I got a phone call that was so loud I had to hold the phone away from my ear (on the lowest volume setting). Ah! I thought, so that's what everyone was complaining about. Now I see. ...

I found that the caller volume can be lowered somewhat by increasing it to its maximum, and then lowering it again (during a call). At least on LineageOS this seems to help ... sometimes. I too have to experiment some more with this. Unfortunately, the (lower) volume doesn't seem to stick.

Edited by daniel.schaaaf
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2 minutes ago, daniel.schaaaf said:

If FinQWERTY does its job without root, then it is safe to use and won't/can't modify /system.

I'm almost certain that FinQWERTY does not copy in files, it offers them to the system as resources not as 'physical' files, as I understand it. But I could be wrong.

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10 minutes ago, daniel.schaaaf said:

No, I did not expect F(x)tec to provide "the best Android experience ever" from the get go. Yes, I know how much manpower costs and how big projects work*. But we are talking about a phone that has been with customers for over a year now. There are many things that are easy to fix, thanks to all the bug reports. My complaint is not just that only little have been done, but that nothing has been done! When we talk about open source, why not employ a coder for a few months? Get basic things like TWRP running, so that the community can mess with their phones without having to re-install everything. Fix the biggest issues to make the Pro1 at least work as an ordinary phone.

We MIGHT be in a situation that it is the same swindlers that developed the pcb that also holds the source for the software to it, and if so we are unlikely to see things corrected on stock, at the least until some court ruling freeing it so someone else can fix stuff.

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2 hours ago, daniel.schaaaf said:

I don't remember F(x)tec communicating that they "just can't afford to get it done". Should this not have been the first sentence on their project announcements?

You don't mean that, do you? That's not how business works. Nobody would have ordered anything anymore, and other business players would have stopped doing business with them.

2 hours ago, daniel.schaaaf said:

why not employ a coder for a few months?

My guess: because they might not have had enough money left for a coder for a few months, after so many months of COVID-19 and other factors having stopped production again and again, reducing sold quantities to a fraction of what they hoped to produce. If they would have been fluent enough for that, they probably wouldn't have needed to resort to IndieGogo to fund new batches of devices in the first place.

2 hours ago, daniel.schaaaf said:

reach a point where you have to decide whether to proceed with "good enough", or chancel the project

Would you have been happier if they'd cancelled the project? Which might very well have been the only alternative, while many of the other customers who have received their phones actually do find it "good enough", with the prospect of getting an even better (as in¬†better-debugged) device after¬†exchanging it for a Pro1 X (by buying one and selling the Pro1) when it should arrive. It should be¬†obvious¬†to you, too, that you're more critical towards the Pro1¬†than many others who bought it¬†‚Äď while I repeat that I grant your reasons are all valid.

Anyway, things are as they are, and at some point we simply need to accept a reality we can't change, unless we want to risk becoming diagnosed with an adaption disorder or something like that...

 

Edited by Rob. S.
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There is absolutely no excuse for the state stock is in right now. If I knew it would turn out like this I would have went with Lineage from the get go. Right now my phone is just too "lived in" and I can't be bothered to wipe / install and set everything up again. ūüėē

 

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21 minutes ago, Tsunero said:

There is absolutely no excuse for the state stock is in right now. If I knew it would turn out like this I would have went with Lineage from the get go. Right now my phone is just too "lived in" and I can't be bothered to wipe / install and set everything up again. ūüėē

I feel exactly the same way on the second part. If I knew a way to trouble free move to AICP (or Lineage) as well as back (if I should regret), I too would have made the jump long ago.

I do not have enough knowledge on what is going on behind the scene to know the explanation on the why. But no matter the why, the outcome is still annoying for us as users. Personally I have simply stopped expecting an update (and even stopped and disabled the OTA services with adb shell pm disable-user) . Should it arrive anyway, it will be a nice surprise.

Luckily (for me) the most severe bugs I have had, has long been fixed. But I would still be very happy to hear if the top five most common issues were fixed.

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I've thought a few times about how it might have made more sense to NOT have any stock at all. I mean if you're going to half-ass something and have a good alternative, why not skip the half assed solution anyway?

But I think that GMS certification was a big part of it, including safetynet. I hope in the future fxtec will have the balls to skip the google stuff from the start, one could interpret the pro1x shipping with lineage as a hesitant first step in that direction.

But there should definitely be a biohazard splash screen if you're using stock. It's a paradox to me - you would be using stock for "important" stuff like banking with safetynet. But at the same time, with stock you're using outdated software with missing fixes, features and security patches. And not to mention all the business-y stock photos from fxtec. I don't know any IT admin who wouldn't get a heart attack if they knew that folk working at the company are using a phone that's running a patch level from early last year or something.

 

The availability of alternatives is the one huge difference between fxtec and planet computers, BTW. I have a cosmo sitting in a drawer somewhere. It seems mind boggling that some people are using the cosmo as a daily driver. Do you really want to install your password manager on a device that is missing critical security updates and has an OTA updater with arbitrary code execution backdoors??? Never mind the fact that you're running the most popular/widespread operating system on hardware/software that's made in china.
In all threat models I can think of a compromised device is always the end of all things, that's literally the worst case.

Edited by eldarion
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I agree that a clarification by Fxtec on what to expect as android user would be useful.  What I had understood so far is that Fxtec and their subcontractor do not bother fixing the android bugs in the current version, but go straight to the next android version???  But now that I am thinking about it, it was probably just a forum user speculation. Or am I wrong? Does any of you remember an official communication on the software issue? When can we expect an update?

Edited by OKSun
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