How to type Unicode characters on QWERTY keyboard?

[lcsaszar 0]

Is there any option to type special characters (like á, é, ó, ú, , ö, ü, ő, ű, í) on the standard keyboard? I don't mean AltGr+some key, but some more intuitive solution. For example, long press on the key A should offer a selection between á, à, â, ã, ä, å, æ. Selection could be done by touch or some other way (left/right arrow highlights, then enter).

[EskeRahn 5,350]

I'm also eagerly awaiting to see how some more finished keyboard software will be. I have only tried the pre-production thing, it is really limited in accessing anything interesting outside the most basic letters and a few symbols. But they must have put the Alt, Ctrl, Sym keys there for a reason, so I guess we just have to wait and see....

 

I hope we can soon have some information on the files controlling stuff, so we can make it fully customizable, And hopefully it can be altered without rooting,

I have tried to ask for info on that since spring, and has optimistically started a minor program for customizing stuff. But am stuck until I get info on what files controls it and info on the format of these.

[Erik 1,487]

Hi all,

 

Now, this is just a feature I've been pushing internally - it's likely coming but it's not confirmed yet.

 

When you hold a key like O (and many others), a slim horizontal bar at the bottom of the screen (on the screen edge and right on top of the physical keys) will popup showing the accent characters corresponding to the letter in question. With this implementation, users will be able to type in most European / Scandinavian languages with only one physical layout - standard QWERTY.

 

To my knowledge, this exists within the Android firmware by default, so we just need to configure and adapt it for use on the Pro1.

 

We'd likely stay away from the Ctrl, Alt and Sym combinations for accent characters, as that can be uncomfortable when the device is in your hands and not on a flat surface.

 

Erik

[phix 14]

Why did they not choose the "QWERTY US-International", a far more complete solution than the 'QWERTZ" for a second layout during the first release...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#US-International

[Gon009 70]

Hi all,

 

Now, this is just a feature I’ve been pushing internally – it’s likely coming but it’s not confirmed yet.

 

When you hold a key like O (and many others), a slim horizontal bar at the bottom of the screen (on the screen edge and right on top of the physical keys) will popup showing the accent characters corresponding to the letter in question. With this implementation, users will be able to type in most European / Scandinavian languages with only one physical layout – standard QWERTY.

 

To my knowledge, this exists within the Android firmware by default, so we just need to configure and adapt it for use on the Pro1.

 

We’d likely stay away from the Ctrl, Alt and Sym combinations for accent characters, as that can be uncomfortable when the device is in your hands and not on a flat surface.

 

Erik

Ouch, that a very bad information. I hoped that these yellow arrow would be like AltGr keys but on both sides to make it comfortable. My old physical keyboard phone had a key that after pressing activated AltGr for next pressed character and it was quite good, didn't slow down writing. Having to hold a key was a reason for me to not use special characters at all on Android because it drastically slows down the writing, especially on words that have many special characters.

Will it be possible to remap somehow these yellow arrow keys without rooting the device?

 

[Erik 1,487]

Erik-FX wrote:

Hi all,

 

Now, this is just a feature I’ve been pushing internally – it’s likely coming but it’s not confirmed yet.

 

When you hold a key like O (and many others), a slim horizontal bar at the bottom of the screen (on the screen edge and right on top of the physical keys) will popup showing the accent characters corresponding to the letter in question. With this implementation, users will be able to type in most European / Scandinavian languages with only one physical layout – standard QWERTY.

 

To my knowledge, this exists within the Android firmware by default, so we just need to configure and adapt it for use on the Pro1.

 

We’d likely stay away from the Ctrl, Alt and Sym combinations for accent characters, as that can be uncomfortable when the device is in your hands and not on a flat surface.

 

Erik

Ouch, that a very bad information. I hoped that these yellow arrow would be like AltGr keys but on both sides to make it comfortable. My old physical keyboard phone had a key that after pressing activated AltGr for next pressed character and it was quite good, didn’t slow down writing. Having to hold a key was a reason for me to not use special characters at all on Android because it drastically slows down the writing, especially on words that have many special characters.

 

Will it be possible to remap somehow these yellow arrow keys without rooting the device?

 

The combination option for accent characters will still be available on our non-QWERTY layouts, or if, for example, you enable the QWERTZ layout with accent characters in software on a physical QWERTY device.

 

The idea is that "hold to select accent letter" will only be available when the software is configured to English with a QWERTY physical layout.

 

But again, this is all subject to change until implemented, and rest assured, we monitor your feedback and reactions on the forum :).

 

Erik

[phix 14]

The idea is that “hold to select accent letter” will only be available when the software is configured to English with a QWERTY physical layout.

 

Please remind you that Android is not the only OS available for the device ;) Select an accent only by software is definitely not reliable...

[Doktor Oswaldo 901]

Why did they not choose the “QWERTY US-International”, a far more complete solution than the ‘QWERTZ” for a second layout during the first release…

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#US-International

 

I am saying the same for nearly half a year here in the forum. But this layout should be available on most OS. It is a pity that there is no international print though.

 

We’d likely stay away from the Ctrl, Alt and Sym combinations for accent characters, as that can be uncomfortable when the device is in your hands and not on a flat surface.

 

This is only true if the key is not sticky. The N900 had accents behind a sticky key and it was working fantastic. Sticky modifiers are a must on a hwkb-phone for me!

[EskeRahn 5,350]

 

Erik-FX wrote:

 

We’d likely stay away from the Ctrl, Alt and Sym combinations for accent characters, as that can be uncomfortable when the device is in your hands and not on a flat surface

 

This is only true if the key is not sticky. The N900 had accents behind a sticky key and it was working fantastic. Sticky modifiers are a must on a hwkb-phone for me!

 

Exactly. and I would suggest to let the user select these sticky or not. Perhaps with some easy swap between the two states.

Or even an automode, that detect if it is still and horizontal. If so it is likely to be on a table, and thus sticky is not needed...

But I would happily settle with some plain key-combo to switch sticky/non-sticky.

[Gon009 70]

Gon009 wrote:

Erik-FX wrote:

Hi all,

 

Now, this is just a feature I’ve been pushing internally – it’s likely coming but it’s not confirmed yet.

 

When you hold a key like O (and many others), a slim horizontal bar at the bottom of the screen (on the screen edge and right on top of the physical keys) will popup showing the accent characters corresponding to the letter in question. With this implementation, users will be able to type in most European / Scandinavian languages with only one physical layout – standard QWERTY.

 

To my knowledge, this exists within the Android firmware by default, so we just need to configure and adapt it for use on the Pro1.

 

We’d likely stay away from the Ctrl, Alt and Sym combinations for accent characters, as that can be uncomfortable when the device is in your hands and not on a flat surface.

 

Erik

 

Ouch, that a very bad information. I hoped that these yellow arrow would be like AltGr keys but on both sides to make it comfortable. My old physical keyboard phone had a key that after pressing activated AltGr for next pressed character and it was quite good, didn’t slow down writing. Having to hold a key was a reason for me to not use special characters at all on Android because it drastically slows down the writing, especially on words that have many special characters.

 

Will it be possible to remap somehow these yellow arrow keys without rooting the device?

The combination option for accent characters will still be available on our non-QWERTY layouts, or if, for example, you enable the QWERTZ layout with accent characters in software on a physical QWERTY device.

 

The idea is that “hold to select accent letter” will only be available when the software is configured to English with a QWERTY physical layout.

 

But again, this is all subject to change until implemented, and rest assured, we monitor your feedback and reactions on the forum :).

 

Erik

 

In Poland we use US QWERTY and use right Alt(AltGr) for special characters. Polish QWERTZ is unpopular. Personally I've never met anyone using Polish QWERTZ and also I don't want to be forced to use it if I want special characters without getting my writing extremely slowed down to be able to write special special Polish characters. Even if there was a Polish QWERTZ keyboard option, I wouldn't buy it. Actually I've never seen Polish QWERTZ physical keyboards to buy in shops here. Honestly the decision to make it "hold to have special characters" instead of some kind of AltGr-like button defeats huge part of the reason to have a physical keyboard, I would accept it in BB Key2-like keyboard when there's no space for this, but when there are 64 keys available it should be a standard. It surprises me that it wasn't a major point when creating the existing QWERTY layout. I still want to have Pro1 but I'm sad that the keyboard will be handicapped when writing in my language.

 

I ask again, will there be an option to remap yellow arrows into AltGr without rooting the phone?

[EskeRahn 5,350]

Hi all,

 

Now, this is just a feature I’ve been pushing internally – it’s likely coming but it’s not confirmed yet.

 

When you hold a key like O (and many others), a slim horizontal bar at the bottom of the screen (on the screen edge and right on top of the physical keys) will popup showing the accent characters corresponding to the letter in question. With this implementation, users will be able to type in most European / Scandinavian languages with only one physical layout – standard QWERTY.

 

To my knowledge, this exists within the Android firmware by default, so we just need to configure and adapt it for use on the Pro1.

 

We’d likely stay away from the Ctrl, Alt and Sym combinations for accent characters, as that can be uncomfortable when the device is in your hands and not on a flat surface.

 

Erik

 

I'm quite surprised (bordering on shocked) to read this. As the keyboard is THE main thing on this device I am(/was?) expecting some super perfected software for this specific hardware keyboard, and not something just adjusting whatever Android happens to have build in. I REALLY hope to get a MUCH MUCH better keyboard experience than what a random BT keyboard can offer on any device.

 

Sure the sliding mechanism in it self is a plus, but PLEASE let us benefit from the great keyboard.

 

Let us remap things freely for any language or special usage, including all sort of combined modifier keys. And let us nerds build the layouts and share them to who ever might want to use them.

[Doktor Oswaldo 901]

In Poland we use US QWERTY and use right Alt(AltGr) for special characters. Polish QWERTZ is unpopular. Personally I’ve never met anyone using Polish QWERTZ and also I don’t want to be forced to use it if I want special characters without getting my writing extremely slowed down to be able to write special special Polish characters. Even if there was a Polish QWERTZ keyboard option, I wouldn’t buy it. Actually I’ve never seen Polish QWERTZ physical keyboards to buy in shops here. Honestly the decision to make it “hold to have special characters” instead of some kind of AltGr-like button defeats huge part of the reason to have a physical keyboard, I would accept it in BB Key2-like keyboard when there’s no space for this, but when there are 64 keys available it should be a standard. It surprises me that it wasn’t a major point when creating the existing QWERTY layout. I still want to have Pro1 but I’m sad that the keyboard will be handicapped when writing in my language.

 

I ask again, will there be an option to remap yellow arrows into AltGr without rooting the phone?

 

I mostly agree with you, just some minor points:

1. The layout you use in Poland is probably what is called the US-International layout (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltGr_key#US-International).

2. This is only useful on a smartphone if the phone is on a table or the keys are sticky (sticky means the key stays pressed until another key has ben pressed, so pressing altGr and releasing it and then press another button would have the same result as pressing altGr and the key together).

 

But this has to be done, using the android style "hold the key" is bad on a touchscreen, but having to switch between keyboard and touchscreen... I can't imagine that this would be comfortable....

[Gon009 70]

Gon009 wrote:

In Poland we use US QWERTY and use right Alt(AltGr) for special characters. Polish QWERTZ is unpopular. Personally I’ve never met anyone using Polish QWERTZ and also I don’t want to be forced to use it if I want special characters without getting my writing extremely slowed down to be able to write special special Polish characters. Even if there was a Polish QWERTZ keyboard option, I wouldn’t buy it. Actually I’ve never seen Polish QWERTZ physical keyboards to buy in shops here. Honestly the decision to make it “hold to have special characters” instead of some kind of AltGr-like button defeats huge part of the reason to have a physical keyboard, I would accept it in BB Key2-like keyboard when there’s no space for this, but when there are 64 keys available it should be a standard. It surprises me that it wasn’t a major point when creating the existing QWERTY layout. I still want to have Pro1 but I’m sad that the keyboard will be handicapped when writing in my language.

 

I ask again, will there be an option to remap yellow arrows into AltGr without rooting the phone?

I mostly agree with you, just some minor points:

 

1. The layout you use in Poland is probably what is called the US-International layout (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltGr_key#US-International).

 

2. This is only useful on a smartphone if the phone is on a table or the keys are sticky (sticky means the key stays pressed until another key has ben pressed, so pressing altGr and releasing it and then press another button would have the same result as pressing altGr and the key together).

 

But this has to be done, using the android style “hold the key” is bad on a touchscreen, but having to switch between keyboard and touchscreen… I can’t imagine that this would be comfortable….

 

1. Looking at this: http://kbd-intl.narod.ru/english/layouts I can say for 100% that the keyboard we use is US Standard. There's a photo of my laptop's keyboard bought in Poland: https://imgur.com/a/zgIxdHP . Sorry for the bad quality but my phone camera is not really good. We all have keyboards like these here.

2. Yes, the sticky key would be enough and it would be acceptable for me. I had a phone years ago with something like this, it was good. However, I'm wondering if making both yellow arrow into AltGr could make it usable without having it to be sticky, you would use right AltGr for keys on the left side and left AltGr for keys on the right side. I wonder how would it work. It would need some of practice but it's difficult to tell anything at this point.

 

Anyway, having only the options to use "press and hold" or QWERTZ would make impossible for me to encourage anyone here buying Pro1. QWERTZ layout, nobody uses it here, I don't want to learn it anyway and anyone trying this phone would just give it back to me instantly. "Press and hold"? Anyone seeing it would burst into laughter. Phone with so many keys and you still need to use touchscreen and "press and hold" feature that greatly slows down writing. Honestly, if Pro1 ships with something like that I would probably be sure that physical keyboards can't make a comeback, ever. I write in Polish 95% of time on my phone, I currently skip special characters just because entire "press and hold" is not enjoyable. Wasn't physical keyboard meant to improve writing experience and functionality?

 

My suggestion is to allow people remap keys. Personally I would give these useless yellow arrows an option to remap them and a toggle to make them sticky or not. It would solve the issue.

[vlycop 38]

I also seconde the sticky modifier. As a french user, not having an azerty keyboards at launch don't bother me, but i do need accents a lot, and really don't want to use the touch screen for it.

 

On the other hand i did order it knowingly ... So i'll see how it end up

[VaZso 1,988]

The combination option for accent characters will still be available on our non-QWERTY layouts, or if, for example, you enable the QWERTZ layout with accent characters in software on a physical QWERTY device.

 

The idea is that “hold to select accent letter” will only be available when the software is configured to English with a QWERTY physical layout.

 

But again, this is all subject to change until implemented, and rest assured, we monitor your feedback and reactions on the forum :).

 

Erik

 

I use accent letters frequently as in my language almost every words has one or even more accent letters. The Android original solution is bad as pressing a character & holding it takes time and slows down everything. Sometimes I use Hacker's Keyboard which has working layout but consumes 90% of the whole screen in landscape mode.

 

I think I would not use the combined method on touch screen for accent letters as it seems to be also a very slow option.

However, I suggest you to leave this as an option in settings menu regardless of the selected layout so if somebody would like to use it, there is a chance for it.

 

I would like to use AltGr-like method - sticky AltGr would be also a good option which may be set up in settings.

On my N900, I was able to write extremely fast using accent characters just because I could redefine the keyboard and put every accent letters on top of other characters and reach them by a modifier key (the blue arrow on the left).

 

That was the fastest and well-usable method, so I would like to also have it on my Pro1.

 

So, using display for accent letters is a slow and not really usable solution and the ability to redefine the keys (AltGr-like method) is a fast and ideal solution.

[shani 14]

Now, this is just a feature I’ve been pushing internally – it’s likely coming but it’s not confirmed yet.

 

When you hold a key like O (and many others), a slim horizontal bar at the bottom of the screen (on the screen edge and right on top of the physical keys) will popup showing the accent characters corresponding to the letter in question. With this implementation, users will be able to type in most European / Scandinavian languages with only one physical layout – standard QWERTY.

 

To my knowledge, this exists within the Android firmware by default, so we just need to configure and adapt it for use on the Pro1.

 

That would be awesome!

Please enable this feature for QWERTZ users too, as it would stiill be very handy when typing accent characters.

[altwouss 22]

Hi all,

 

Now, this is just a feature I’ve been pushing internally – it’s likely coming but it’s not confirmed yet.

 

When you hold a key like O (and many others), a slim horizontal bar at the bottom of the screen (on the screen edge and right on top of the physical keys) will popup showing the accent characters corresponding to the letter in question. With this implementation, users will be able to type in most European / Scandinavian languages with only one physical layout – standard QWERTY.

 

To my knowledge, this exists within the Android firmware by default, so we just need to configure and adapt it for use on the Pro1.

 

We’d likely stay away from the Ctrl, Alt and Sym combinations for accent characters, as that can be uncomfortable when the device is in your hands and not on a flat surface.

 

Erik

 

Seeing the mixed reactions on this forum, I thought to voice my opinion as well. I am a former N900 and Palm Pre3 user and I think this would work great for using the accents. Since we will be thumb typing anyway, I think having a software row of accents along the edge of the screen might be great addition to the keyboard, and add finesse to the text when needed. I have heard in reviews the curved edge of the screen is easily accessible with the fingers from the keyboard, so this could add a way to dynamically interact with keyboard input.

 

I also like the idea of having a sticky key, but this would still result in additional key press and perhaps more figuring out which accent to use.

 

Not sure if possible at all, but perhaps leave the accents bar open after a single long press, and change the options according to the last key pressed. This would remove the slowdown and result in a faster option than using sticky keys at all, as only 1 press is needed to change the last letter to an accented one?

 

PS: A link to how it worked for the Pre3. I think using the edge of the screen greatly enhances the experience, although I would not exclude using sticky keys.

Pre3 Using Sym key