Reverse shifted layout

[Doktor Oswaldo 906]

The pro1 features a shifted layout to make it easier to type. But since the keys in the middle are often hardest to type on a keyboard slider, wouldn't it be better to shift the layout to the opposite direction (have special keys in the middle) like some strange keyboard do?

This is not common and I still would prefer a non shifted US-Layout. But to actually solve the problem of the hard to reach middle keys, this would be more stable than the current shift since you can grab it normally, wouldn't it? What do you think?

[EskeRahn 5,471]

Interesting input, but the whole benefit of the layout being well-known is lost with any 'smart' layout - and that goes for the letter-shifted QWERTY too. IMHO

I can hardly wait to get my hands on an unshifted qwertz variant even if the print of Z and Y will be swapped for QWERTY usage.
I plan to simply take a marker pen, and let these two letters go 'stealth'...

[netman 1,424]

To me this looks much harder to get used to than the completely shifted qwerty, but because of reasons I'd imagine are fairly personal. It's a cool idea.

[Keyahnig 80]

Definitly an interesting idea. I'm not sure how comfortable it will be to press keys closer to the edge.

[dreamflasher 120]

People will get used to anything. I believe the Blackberry layout is horrible, but eventually I got used to it and can type it blind by now. So yeah, I think splitting would be a great idea for usability. Not so much for marketing though because at first everyone would be annoyed.

[FlyingAntero 871]

I am also little bit concerned if I am able to reach the middle buttons easily. The length of  the phone is 154 mm so it is not that easy to press the buttons in the middle. This thing was discussed during Moto Mod campaign so I believe F(X)tec team has think about it.

One option?

[Doktor Oswaldo 906]

1 hour ago, FlyingAntero said:

I am also little bit concerned if I am able to reach the middle buttons easily. The length of  the phone is 154 mm so it is not that easy to press the buttons in the middle. This thing was discussed during Moto Mod campaign so I believe F(X)tec team has think about it.

One option?

Thanks for the image, exactly what I mean.
While I still would prefer a non shifted QWERTY, I think this would be better shift to do.

But one would have to test that. It surely is highly unusual.
Normally I have a strong opinion against strange layouts, because you have years to get the invested time back (looking at you dvorak) and can't use your pals equipment anymore. But since a phone does need another muscle memory anyway (thumb typing) it may be an idea to fully optimize it.

Another Idea would be to make the keys smaller and leave the middle empty, like some ergonomic keyboards have a split.

[Doktor Oswaldo 906]

Something like that (Disclaimer: Poor edit):

[EskeRahn 5,471]

I think this discussion will die once you all get it in your hands....

It is all a matter of how you hold it.

My hands are not large, So I can not operate a 16:9 slab much above 65mm wide while keeping a secure grip.

Both an Iphone S6- or Galaxy S8- are slightly to large for my hands.

And yet I can hold the Pro1 securely but still be able to reach S from the right and K from the left... And stretching one key further.... It all depends on the way we hold it.

The NATURAL way to hold it is to place the corner in the palm of your hand:

But if you need more reach, it is just a matter of moving this anchor point. Still resting the phone on a couple of fingers, and have the index fingers on the support plate.

Here moved extremely, giving a reach of almost the whole keyboard from both sides for me

[Doktor Oswaldo 906]

7 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

I think this discussion will die once you all get it in your hands....

It is all a matter of how you hold it.

My hands are not large, So I can not operate a 16:9 slab much above 65mm wide while keeping a secure grip.

Both an Iphone S6- or Galaxy S8- are slightly to large for my hands.

And yet I can hold the Pro1 securely but still be able to reach S from the right and K from the left... And stretching one key further.... It all depends on the way we hold it.

The NATURAL way to hold it is to place the corner in the palm of your hand:

 

But if you need more reach, it is just a matter of moving this anchor point. Still resting the phone on a couple of fingers, and have the index fingers on the support plate.

Here moved extremely, giving a reach of almost the whole keyboard from both sides for me

 

Don't worry, I don't think it is an issue at all. I would not even thought about that if they hadn't shifted the keyboard.
Now I started thinking about it and I am interested on what the best layout would be. Maybe it would even be great to adjust the keys in a circular manner so they are more thumb centric.

But that is all just thinking, I strongly suggest a plain old QWERTY !. Everything else may be hard to sell and hard to learn, even so it may be better in the long run.

[Flash-a-holic 39]

I had a DIY QWERTY phone in the past. The length of the device was 138.1 mm. It was made of iPhone 6 bluetooth keyboard case and Xiaomi Mi 4C. I think that 140 mm was very close to max that I was able to handle comfortable. But I need to test Pro1 before I can make my final judgment.

Here is a short video of my DIY QWERTY phone.

Pictures: https://imgur.com/a/Pbvpo

[Parhelion 114]

The discussion just makes me imagine the Pro1 with changeable Keys.

Maybe a magnetic flip- on, the sensory on the static part, changeable layouts, something RFID-like to tell the device which layout is being used,
somewhat like Jolla tried with The Other Half. Gamecontroller also possible, or anything else one might imagine for special puposes.

Maybe that's an idea for the Pro2 (imgagining...)

[EskeRahn 5,471]

12 minutes ago, Parhelion said:

The discussion just makes me imagine the Pro1 with changeable Keys.

Maybe a magnetic flip- on, the sensory on the static part, changeable layouts, something RFID-like to tell the device which layout is being used,
somewhat like Jolla tried with The Other Half. Gamecontroller also possible, or anything else one might imagine for special puposes.

Maybe that's an idea for the Pro2 (imgagining...)

....Why do I suddenly recall the Moto-Z Mods..... Sorry for cursing... 😇

[silversolver 849]

On 10/28/2019 at 8:50 AM, Parhelion said:

The discussion just makes me imagine the Pro1 with changeable Keys.

Maybe a magnetic flip- on, the sensory on the static part, changeable layouts, something RFID-like to tell the device which layout is being used,
somewhat like Jolla tried with The Other Half. Gamecontroller also possible, or anything else one might imagine for special puposes.

Maybe that's an idea for the Pro2 (imgagining...)

That is a very cool concept!

[SchattengestaIt 559]

I have big hands, so I'll probably be fine. But I think a smaller Pro 2 would be a good thing for many people.

FxTec probably decided to go for 6" since it was hard to get the technology somewhere. Nobody would want to get a 5" phone with 1500mAh, many people would complain about a missing headphone jack. The stuff needs to fit somewhere and for the first device, this was probably their best choice.

Also, the size makes the phone look slimmer...

If all people got their devices, I'm sure FxTec will listen to us and see what their users would like in the next version.

[Doktor Oswaldo 906]

1 minute ago, SchattengestaIt said:

I have big hands, so I'll probably be fine. But I think a smaller Pro 2 would be a good thing for many people.

FxTec probably decided to go for 6" since it was hard to get the technology somewhere. Nobody would want to get a 5" phone with 1500mAh, many people would complain about a missing headphone jack. The stuff needs to fit somewhere and for the first device, this was probably their best choice.

Also, the size makes the phone look slimmer...

If all people got their devices, I'm sure FxTec will listen to us and see what their users would like in the next version.

This is all true, but the original statement of the thread was not that it is too big, but why the keys are shifted inwards and not outwards.
Of course without having my device yet, it is all speculations. Since my hands are on the bigger side too, I also expect no problems, but we will see.

[EskeRahn 5,471]

39 minutes ago, SchattengestaIt said:

I have big hands, so I'll probably be fine. But I think a smaller Pro 2 would be a good thing for many people.

We have that discussion elsewhere, but frankly it isn't an issue in landscape, though it -like most slabs today- is too large for most people to operate fully one handed in portrait while keeping a secure grip. See e.g. this

 

(And sorry for the cursing above each of the graphics)

[_DW_ 628]

It all depends on your hand to determine the best sized phone.

[EskeRahn 5,471]

1 hour ago, _DW_ said:

It all depends on your hand to determine the best sized phone.

Indeed it does, there are no ideal size that fits all.

And usage pattern is also important, some will use it with two hands anyway,

Sorry for leading this thread off topic, my point was that it is actually a matter of how you hold it to reach the full keyboard, and IMHO the shift is not even needed in the first place. As I explained here

[SchattengestaIt 559]

2 hours ago, Doktor Oswaldo said:

This is all true, but the original statement of the thread was not that it is too big, but why the keys are shifted inwards and not outwards.
Of course without having my device yet, it is all speculations. Since my hands are on the bigger side too, I also expect no problems, but we will see.

Well, I wouldn't buy a phone with keys shifted outwards. So my solution would be to make it smaller to reach all keys without problems.

I don't see that as offtopic.

[Doktor Oswaldo 906]

1 minute ago, SchattengestaIt said:

Well, I wouldn't buy a phone with keys shifted outwards. So my solution would be to make it smaller to reach all keys without problems.

I don't see that as offtopic.

It is in my opinion, there are a lot of topics where a smaller screen is discussed (I would personally prefer a smaller screen).
The target of this topic was only to discuss the sense of the shift.
 

[_DW_ 628]

(going on topic as well)  I don't think I'd adapt to it easily to much muscle memory typing with the normal layout.

[EskeRahn 5,471]

7 minutes ago, _DW_ said:

(going on topic as well)  I don't think I'd adapt to it easily to much muscle memory typing with the normal layout.

Well perhaps not muscle memory, but the expectation of where keys are relative to each other matters - at the least it does for me.

As I expected/hoped, I make a lot fewer errors on the qwertZ set for DK qwertY after a few weeks, than on the shifted qwertY used for months...

[_DW_ 628]

33 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

Well perhaps not muscle memory

Definitely muscle memory 😉 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory)

[Doktor Oswaldo 906]

Just now, _DW_ said:

Definitely muscle memory 😉 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory)

What he meant is, his problem is not muscle memory, since he is not used to type on a hwkb-landscape slider (anymore).