Discussion and testing on features and known&potential issues

[Hook 3,020]

Speedtest also works fine on mine.  And I did the ADB thing to allow charging when turned off, but I am not currently rooted, stock firmware.  My BL is unlocked as it came to me that way and I have never changed that.

[david 929]

1 hour ago, Hook said:

Speedtest also works fine on mine.  And I did the ADB thing to allow charging when turned off, but I am not currently rooted, stock firmware.  My BL is unlocked as it came to me that way and I have never changed that.

Are you on a 2.4GHz or 5.8GHz access point?

[EskeRahn 5,460]

10 minutes ago, david said:

Are you on a 2.4GHz or 5.8GHz access point?

I'm on 5GHz here. As you see it with WiFi only, does it make a difference if you pop out the SIM? (Just to narrow it down)

[Hook 3,020]

12 minutes ago, david said:

Are you on a 2.4GHz or 5.8GHz access point?

The router does both, of course, but my Pro1 is connected to the 5.8Ghz access point

[david 929]

I should add that I've done *hundreds* of wifi speed tests over the past several days, with the phone using 802.11ac on 5.8GHz bands.  Those were run on my lan, not for wan measurements and not with the speedtest app.  I used a variety of apps, but was mainly using the iperf3 protocols, and pushing the phone to its limits.  And I'm *very* pleased with the speed the phone can *send* data over 802.11ac.

I just now tested with the phone connected to the 2.4GHz access point, running iperf3 tests to a laptop on the lan and it didn't crash.  Those tests approach 100 Mbps, which is much faster than any test would be over my wimpy internet connection.  It could also be due to packet sizes used by speedtest.  It is obviously doing something unique, as web browsing and all other network activity works fine over the 2.4GHz/802.11n link, as far as I can tell.  

There is something speedtest is doing when it is setting up the connection to another server that is unique.  The crash happens before it starts measuring throughput.  Maybe it is attempting a bunch of simultaneous connections to servers to see which one is most free.  Hard to say.

I think that's about as far as I'll take my testing, unless @Waxberry would like me to log something or test something specific.  As long as the problem isn't happening with other apps, I'll probably refrain from doing a factory reset at this time, so the problem will be able to be reproduced at will, if/when it is desired.

[david 929]

7 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

I'm on 5GHz here. As you see it with WiFi only, does it make a difference if you pop out the SIM? (Just to narrow it down)

If you have a way to test against 2.4GHz, with 801.11n, that is what would apparently be required.  802.11n at 5GHz might produce the problem.  I did not test that.

I'm not sure how the SIM would be related to this.  It isn't using the sim when it crashes.  It is only using wifi.  It works without problem over cellular, using the sim.  It does happen with cellular shut off, as well (airplane mode and then only re-enabling wifi).  It shouldn't be doing anything with the sim in that situation.

Edited February 11, 2020 by david

[david 929]

4 minutes ago, Hook said:

The router does both, of course, but my Pro1 is connected to the 5.8Ghz access point

If you have a way to test against 2.4GHz, with 801.11n, that is what would apparently be required.  802.11n at 5GHz might produce the problem.  I did not test that.

[Hook 3,020]

4 minutes ago, david said:

If you have a way to test against 2.4GHz, with 801.11n, that is what would apparently be required.  802.11n at 5GHz might produce the problem.  I did not test that.

Works fine here.

[EskeRahn 5,460]

2.4 Works fine here too.

I noticed a setting Multi/Single under connections before pressing GO I have tried both, and immediately pressing GO. The colour is different for single, otherwise the same. (a tiny bit slower in single)

[david 929]

19 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

2.4 Works fine here too.

I noticed a setting Multi/Single under connections before pressing GO I have tried both, and immediately pressing GO. The colour is different for single, otherwise the same. (a tiny bit slower in single)

Yeah, at one point in my testing, single did allow a test or two to work for me, and I thought that was another variable that made a big difference.  But then it stopped working for single too.  My guess is that single *might* reduce the risk of it happening a slight amount, but it is equally plausible that it was just a random chance that it worked those few times on single mode.

I tested it here with a Pixel 1.  That has a one year older chipset and is running Android 10, but I figured it was worth a test.  It didn't crash.

It could be the advanced features in my router, combined with whatever speedtest is doing, or it could be some left over garbage from upgrading firmware.  It *could* be a hardware issue, but I doubt it.  At this point, it is purely an exercise in trying to provide something for fxtec to look into to make their wifi stuff more solid.  If reboots were happening here and there with other software, then it would be a bigger deal. 

The only thing that concerns me is the bit about it turning on my boot and lock screen security when I didn't have it on.  I'm glad that it *somehow* pulled my pattern out of wherever that is stored.  I'm not sure what would have happened if it would have enabled the boot lock without me having set a pin/pattern.  I vaguely remember some other discussions on here about some oddities with the boot pin/pattern not matching what people had set for their lock screen value, but I don't remember if it turned itself on spontaneously, like in my case, or if there were other variables at play.

[Polaris 423]

@VaZso Did your friend ever try a factory reset?  Or is he like me and is waiting for more input before going that route?

[VaZso 1,998]

16 minutes ago, Polaris said:

@VaZso Did your friend ever try a factory reset?  Or is he like me and is waiting for more input before going that route?

No. He doesn't really like to completely restart setting up the phone (and also that is why I miss a functioning backup / restore solution).
Currently Android does not support it (even though it tries to reinstall apps and restore some settings but it is absolutely not a fully working solution).

I was thinking of trying it on my 2nd Pro1 but I currently don't know what to do with that phone because I am not convenienced with it and I had a really few spare time in the last weeks... it is sitting in its box since I received it and F(x)tec told me they will send a new display then to send it back and they will repair or replace it but I wanted to look at it again if I see something. Basically if a screen replacement would help then I would rather do the replacement instead of someone else but if it does not help then I don't like its loose display so better see a replacement... so it may be not really fair to test using it but I still haven't decided what to do with that phone...

[Polaris 423]

3 hours ago, VaZso said:

No. He doesn't really like to completely restart setting up the phone (and also that is why I miss a functioning backup / restore solution).
Currently Android does not support it (even though it tries to reinstall apps and restore some settings but it is absolutely not a fully working solution).

I was thinking of trying it on my 2nd Pro1 but I currently don't know what to do with that phone because I am not convenienced with it and I had a really few spare time in the last weeks... it is sitting in its box since I received it and F(x)tec told me they will send a new display then to send it back and they will repair or replace it but I wanted to look at it again if I see something. Basically if a screen replacement would help then I would rather do the replacement instead of someone else but if it does not help then I don't like its loose display so better see a replacement... so it may be not really fair to test using it but I still haven't decided what to do with that phone...

I must have missed your posts about you needing a replacement phone!  Resetting the phone (to the current firmware) is easy, just an option in settings.  I don't have much on mine and don't mind doing it so that's an option.  I was hoping to be able to find the issue without a reset though to help all of us when it happens again.  I'll wait a bit and keep messing around, but if there isn't any other solution, I'll reset.

[VaZso 1,998]

1 hour ago, Polaris said:

I must have missed your posts about you needing a replacement phone!  Resetting the phone (to the current firmware) is easy, just an option in settings.  I don't have much on mine and don't mind doing it so that's an option.  I was hoping to be able to find the issue without a reset though to help all of us when it happens again.  I'll wait a bit and keep messing around, but if there isn't any other solution, I'll reset.

I had an IGG coupon and a pre-order here.
When I was waiting for my pre-order to be shipped, I saw a Pro1 to be sold at DragonBox website, so after thinking on it a while, I have bought another Pro1 which is the phone I currently using. I knew my January and February will be very busy which was also part of my decision - It has arrived in the very last days of 2019 and only one working day separated me to receive it before Christmas (although FedEx showed it will arrive on 23th even after Christmas).

Later (in the end of January), my pre-order has been also arrived but it has a crack on one of the corners of display frame and I feel the whole display assembly is loose. Even if I don't compare it to any phones, I have that feeling... but if I compare it to my other Pro1 and my friend's Pro1 then I am more than sure it is. I didn't really wrote about it here but I had about two or three messages and also a photo of it earlier.

I still want to check again if the top assembly is deformed or not and wanted to check the price of sending it to the UK but I didn't have time for it yet.
Also, I have bad experience with Royal Mail as a few years ago I wanted to send something in the price range of around 300 EUR and local postal service did not have an option for insurence... I thought Royal Mail is a valuable service provider, so I sent it without insurance... that was a really bad idea. Tracking showed it had been arrived in the UK, but nothing more... I have even called them by phone and they told me they can see the arrival in their system but they will only have further tracking if it will be delivered which may happen at "any time".
Later, a local postal administrator told me there is a reason if they don't provide insurance to a destination and now I also know it... so I lost my trust in Royal Mail.

So that is why I don't really like the idea of sending the phone back and the second reason is if the phone is repairable then I trust myself more than anybody else but I also have a feeling it is not as easy to resolve the problem of loose top part...

That is why it doesn't seem to be easy.

Anyway, yes, resetting the phone is easy but to set it up again is not really easy and if it does not solve the problem then it is also worthless.
I am also curious what could be the problem and I would wait at least the next OTA which may change this behaviour.

Edited February 17, 2020 by VaZso

[Polaris 423]

2 hours ago, VaZso said:

.

.

Anyway, yes, resetting the phone is easy but to set it up again is not really easy and if it does not solve the problem then it is also worthless.
I am also curious what could be the problem and I would wait at least the next OTA which may change this behaviour.

Very  interesting about your phones.  I hope it all works out well for you.  In my case, I had a phone on order that wasn't shipped.  A friend (who I told about the Pro1) pre-ordered much before me and received his last month.  He didn't like it, so I offered to purchase it from him.  I hate to say it because I really love what the guys at F(x)tec are trying to do, and want to support physical (landscape) keyboard phones, but I can completely see why he wanted to return it.  I'm not very impressed with the shifted (QWERTY) keyboard, and the (cellular) transceiver is extremely weak compared to both my Droid 4 (an ancient phone) and my Samsung S8+.  Admittedly, this is only really apparent in fringe areas, but I live in one such area and, sadly, it's very noticeable.  Others have complained about the WiFi being weak as well, but I haven't tested that yet.  That's the hardware side, then there is the software/firmware side that, IMO, it wasn't ready for release (this LED notification issue is one such example, and a biggie for many of us).  Clearly, these programming issues can be straightened out with some time and desire, but there is no guarantee for any of it.

Also, you bring up a good point about a factory reset maybe not solving the problem.  I would think that, since my phone worked previously, it will work after a reset, but maybe not.  I understand what you are saying about the re-setup not being easy, but for me it is because I haven't been using it as a daily driver (not even close to being ready for me as I'm interested in LOS anyway), so I don't have a single 3rd party app installed.  For me, a reset is only about running through the 5 minutes of the initial setup prompts.  However, even if it works, it won't prevent it from happening again, and then what?  Just keep resetting every time the problem reappears?  I think not!

Also, as you pointed out, the reset might not even fix it.  I'm now curious how many people are having this issue.  I'll probably start a thread about it to get input and determine how many of us there are, and if people have even noticed (I can't imagine not noticing, but, at this point, it's anyone's guess).

[VaZso 1,998]

6 hours ago, Polaris said:

I'm not very impressed with the shifted (QWERTY) keyboard, and the (cellular) transceiver is extremely weak compared to both my Droid 4 (an ancient phone) and my Samsung S8+.  Admittedly, this is only really apparent in fringe areas, but I live in one such area and, sadly, it's very noticeable. 

That was the reason for me to buy the QWERTZ version (however, it was only available in Europe).
However, I see similar signal strength like my Moto G6 had - but it may highly depend on the actually used frequency band.
One of the networks I use is relatively weak at home.

6 hours ago, Polaris said:

Others have complained about the WiFi being weak as well, but I haven't tested that yet.

When I set it up, I was connected to a relatively far WiFi AP (the one what I use for quick setup / testing).
It worked, but there was a position where it frequently reconnected. Moto G6 also does not have high signal but have not experienced reconnecting in such situations.
However, I have not noticed similar problems since I use it as a daily driver.

7 hours ago, Polaris said:

I understand what you are saying about the re-setup not being easy, but for me it is because I haven't been using it as a daily driver (not even close to being ready for me as I'm interested in LOS anyway), so I don't have a single 3rd party app installed.  For me, a reset is only about running through the 5 minutes of the initial setup prompts. 

That way it is a bit easier. My friend and me are using it as a daily driver.

7 hours ago, Polaris said:

Also, you bring up a good point about a factory reset maybe not solving the problem.  I would think that, since my phone worked previously, it will work after a reset, but maybe not. 

It may happen... that is why it would be good to know the mechanism and more access to the system may help (which is highly restricted in Android).

[Polaris 423]

12 minutes ago, VaZso said:

That was the reason for me to buy the QWERTZ version (however, it was only available in Europe).
However, I see similar signal strength like my Moto G6 had - but it may highly depend on the actually used frequency band.
One of the networks I use is relatively weak at home.

The QWERTZ version would still be a problem for me as there would still be extra keys in the mix, just on the right side instead of the left.  Personally, I don't see a difference between the two except for the QWERTZ version is more like a full size PC keyboard (which doesn't interest me as I'm not looking for a full size PC keyboard).

As for the cell signal strength, I have now done extensive testing with this in multiple bands and with multiple carriers. The Pro1 was always 3 to 5 dBm weaker than my Droid 4 in the same band (only B13 on the D4), to the same sites, and from the same locations on Verizon.  In regard to the S8+, the Pro1 was always 3 to 7 dBm weaker in the same bands, to the same sites, and from the same locations on AT&T.  I used the actual values being reported by the radio and not the interpreted/manipulated signal percentages or bars.  Furthermore, I tested it at my house, but also drove around town in the fringe areas to hit multiple sites from multiple locations.  I spent hours doing this and the results were very clear.  I haven't done any WiFi testing yet.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Polaris

[VaZso 1,998]

44 minutes ago, Polaris said:

The QWERTZ version would still be a problem for me as there would still be extra keys in the mix, just on the right side instead of the left.  Personally, I don't see a difference between the two except for the QWERTZ version is more like a full size PC keyboard (which doesn't interest me as I'm not looking for a full size PC keyboard).

For me, it is absolutely good as it has needed keys for international language and also for terminal use.
So those extra keys are very useful for me - in extra you mean basically everything else except alphabetical and numerical keys I think.

[Polaris 423]

2 hours ago, VaZso said:

For me, it is absolutely good as it has needed keys for international language and also for terminal use.
So those extra keys are very useful for me - in extra you mean basically everything else except alphabetical and numerical keys I think.

I'm glad it works for you.  If I wasn't using USA English I would probably feel like you do (then again maybe not because the arrow keys can be used for double the characters).  For terminal use and programming I use an UMPC not a phone so I'm basically looking for all the alpha character keys, numerical keys, and all the popular punctuation and symbol keys. 

I only think there are about 3 too many keys on the Pro1.  I'm not suggesting they get rid of all of the extra ones, but only three.  This would allow those of us who thumb touch type (meaning using thumbs, but without looking at the keyboard) to have a symmetrical keyboard without one side having an extra column of keys.  The SYM key (instead of doing nothing) can be used to pop up a full screen of rarely used symbols to make certain that everything is accessible in firmware.  A good example of a symmetrical keyboard, that is easy to use without looking at the keys, is the Motorola Droid 4.  It's not perfect, but being that it's symmetrical, one can type very fast on it without looking at the keys.

[VaZso 1,998]

28 minutes ago, Polaris said:

I'm glad it works for you.  If I wasn't using USA English I would probably feel like you do (then again maybe not because the arrow keys can be used for double the characters).  For terminal use and programming I use an UMPC not a phone so I'm basically looking for all the alpha character keys, numerical keys, and all the popular punctuation and symbol keys. 

Yes - for the USA, the reduced keyboard is fine.
However, in other countries, where there are also other characters (in my case áéíóöőúüű and its capitals but other languages have û, è, ê, ë-type characters and so on) there are more buttons needed for proper use.
They are similar characters like a,b,c - so o,ó,ö,ő are different alphabetical characters which are not exists in standard US keyboards.

As of programming and terminal access - for these purposes, I use a PC... but in a relatively rare case when there is no PC around and I may use my phone instead, it is a life-saver...
So this is my ultra-mobile PC. 🙂

Also for symmetrical keyboards one need to learn where keys are.

[EskeRahn 5,460]

27 minutes ago, VaZso said:

Also for symmetrical keyboards one need to learn where keys are.

Exactly the qwertZ with FinQWERTY is like what we would expect of a keyboard, just reduced, and I for one can quickly adapt to that. The shifted one is constant trouble for me. When I used it extensively I make errors the other way round on a pc...

Actually I think the shifted would have been easier if it was say Dvorak or ABCDEF... if the keys are not in their proper QWERTY positions anyway.... As you then would need to learn an unrelated keyboard. Because the letter-shifted qwertY is so close to a real qwertY, my mind has a hard time keeping them separate,

It is like when I speak a lot of Swedish, and then switch back to Danish (the two languages have VERY closely related vocabularies), I can accidentally use a Swedish word with Danish pronunciation, because me mind is set for Swedish, and the same the other way round. it does not happen when I (try to) speak say French, because it is 'totally' different, and thus much easier to keep apart.

[Polaris 423]

42 minutes ago, VaZso said:

Also for symmetrical keyboards one need to learn where keys are.

Not really because with a symmetrical keyboard your thumbs will automatically land on F and J as your home keys.  If you are familiar with a QWERTY keyboard then the rest just comes naturally.  At least this has been my experience with every physical landscape keyboard I have used (which have been many, about 10 different devices, and I have never (previously) had trouble acclimating to a symmetrical keyboard).

[VaZso 1,998]

1 minute ago, EskeRahn said:

Exactly the qwertZ with FinQWERTY is like what we would expect of a keyboard, just reduced, and I for one can quickly adapt to that. The shifted one is constant trouble for me. When I used it extensively I make errors the other way round on a pc...

That is why I like my QWERTZ keyboard (and would be much happier with unshifted QWERTY anyway).
Keys are exactly where I would expect.

[Polaris 423]

30 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

Exactly the qwertZ with FinQWERTY is like what we would expect of a keyboard, just reduced, and I for one can quickly adapt to that. The shifted one is constant trouble for me. When I used it extensively I make errors the other way round on a pc...

Humm... I find your observation very interesting.  Why do you think that extra keys inserted between the left edge and the A is constant trouble for you, but the same amount of keys inserted between the right edge and the ; is quickly adaptable?  Are you thumb typing, or finger typing?

I shifted all my keys using a keymapper and it seemed to provide the same amount of trouble for me (other than the numbers lined up correctly).  Either my left thumb wouldn't naturally land on the F as a home key, or my right thumb wouldn't naturally land on the J.  Same problem just one side or the other.

 

24 minutes ago, VaZso said:

That is why I like my QWERTZ keyboard (and would be much happier with unshifted QWERTY anyway).
Keys are exactly where I would expect.

I get what you are saying and, if there needs to be extra keys, then I agree the Pro1 QWERTZ layout is better than the Pro1 QWERTY layout; thus, if they made, what is being called an unshited QWERTY I would have ordered that.  However, as for keys where you expect, I think this goes back to our previous discussion about the differences with how each of us type on our phones.  If I was looking at the keys/fingers while typing then, yes, I too wouldn't mind and the extra keys.  However, since I type without looking at the keys/fingers at least 98% of the time they keys aren't where I expect them to be regardless of which layout is used.  Three less keys would solve this problem.

However, if one is looking for a miniature keyboard that closely mimics a PC keyboard, then yes, for sure, an unshifted QWERTY is the way to go (or in the case of a Pro1, a QWERTZ and FinQWERTY).

Edited February 18, 2020 by Polaris

[EskeRahn 5,460]

20 minutes ago, Polaris said:

Humm... I find your observation very interesting.  Why do you think that extra keys inserted between the left edge and the A is constant trouble for you, but the same amount of keys inserted between the right edge and the ; is quickly adaptable?  I shifted all my keys using a keymapper and it seemed to provide the same amount of trouble for me (other than the numbers lined up correctly).  Either my left thumb wouldn't naturally land on the F as the home key, or my right thumb wouldn't naturally land on the J.  Same problem just one side or the other.

The odd thing is that I have no real trouble with the RIGHT hand on the qwertY only the LEFT.

My GUESS would be that the right side generally varies more between keyboards. Different shape of Enter, Some got a numeric keyboard right of the letter block...

The left side on the other hand, there has been total agreement on since the typewriter days... So that is anchored firmer in my brain. And that the numbers are NOT shifted makes the whole thing worse, as they in my brain are misalligned with the letters...

I have been using Lenovo Laptop keyboards for long, and I STILL can not find the F-keys as they are slightly smaller than the rest (6:5) so cannot just remember that F2 is just above 2. It is, but F8 is just above 7 and F11 is mid between 9 and 0, and my mind don't like that *LOL*