Refund request handled slowly

[Slion 1,201]

@bamboozleDude that's what IGG is. It's not a shop, it's capital investment. There is no guarantee you will ever see your money again, there is no guarantee you will ever get your perks.

Having said that FxTec this year have demonstrated honesty and willingness to serve their customers despite the small size of their operation and economic turmoil. I would say hang in there and hope for the best.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Slion

[FlyingAntero 871]

3 hours ago, bamboozle said:

Hey guys, I ordered a Pro1-X from their Indiegogo campaign under the impression that if I should change my mind I could get a refund before the end of the campaign on the 12th of December. Now after discovering that they are selling the Pro1-X before having fulfilled many orders of their Pro1, I decided to get my refund 2 days later. I quickly discovered that Indiegogo had locked the button for a refund, alongside the statement "The contribution can't be refunded through Indiegogo. Please contact the campaign owner to request a refund."

i find it a little shady they chose Indiegogo in the first place- the platform makes it very clear that backers are not guaranteed anything that they paid for, giving fxtech a bunch of loopholes to get out should they fail to deliver. What it seems like to me is that they're using Indiegogo to quickly raise funds to fulfil back-orders.

First thing I did was contact Indiegogo requesting an explanation. All they did was bluntly send me a link to their terms and conditions and told me again to contact fxtech. Second thing I did was try to contact fxtec through the "contact" button on Indiegogo, the email address Indiegogo support gave me, and info@fxtec.com

Well, I've had no luck so far and we're ticking closer and closer to that end date. As it seems I'm not the only one on Indiegogo experiencing that exact same issue, I left comments on the campaign hoping to get an explanation to no avail. It also seems that comments of others reporting the same thing are being removed. I've got screen-shots of at least one disappearing.

Anyone have any advice?

Indeed, the refund option is now gone even thought it was there in the begining. It is little bit strange. I got the mail below when I backed the campaing.

Quote

Crowdfunding is not shopping. Your donation is a way to support a project but does not guarantee that you will receive a perk.

You may request a full refund from Indiegogo until the campaign ends on December 11, 2020.

Any refunds after this date are the responsibility of the campaign owner, FX Technology, at their discretion.

I think that F(x)tec has proven to be trustworthy in the past since devices has been delivered or refund given (thought waiting time has been long for both). I just hope that everything is still under control and F(x)tec is not financing old Pro1 orders with Indiegogo money.

I still have full trust to the company. Also, they have XDA on board. I think that XDA would not participate if there was something suspicious. XDA has their reputation in the game.

Edited November 21, 2020 by FlyingAntero

[EskeRahn 5,471]

@bamboozle I repeat myself here.... Look back at the crashed Moto Mod Keyboard Indiegogo project by Chen.
He offered ALL over money back OR a voucher valid for the Pro1 (Actually with $100 even for a larger amount than what we invested in the project!). The project was crashed due to Motorola, with a lot of money wasted, and he could just have said too bad, the project failed money spent, but being the honest guy he is, he paid us back from his own money(!) - and now -again- we see people questioning his/their new project....

If you want to be absolutely sure to get something use a physical shop and pick the item you want off the shelf, do not do online shopping and certainly not crowd funding. But some of us are willing to take the risk to get a great product without any real competition (currently), and as both @Slion and @FlyingAntero just said, the history shows us that though they have been too optimistic with their timelines, they do get there and they do deliver...

[bamboozle 5]

I also should clarify, I just want a refund because it's not the device for me. I understand the risks of crowd-funding (though they still use the word selling) but people are being misled into thinking they've got a reasonable window for a one-click refund when in reality once you've agreed to the terms and conditions there are no guarantees.

I mean out of all people willing to go all the way, it's only a small amount that actually have decided it isn't for them and want a refund only to find it's a long, tedious process with no guarantees whatsoever.

25 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

he paid us back from his own money(!) - and now -again- we see people questioning his/their new project....

What's wrong with questioning things? If it's legit it's legit, if it's not it's not. No one should blindly follow things without asking questions, that's how you jump the gun and get into these situations like I did.

[EskeRahn 5,471]

3 hours ago, bamboozle said:

What's wrong with questioning things? If it's legit it's legit, if it's not it's not. No one should blindly follow things without asking questions, that's how you jump the gun and get into these situations like I did.

Well it was an attempt in a more polite way to question your accusation:

7 hours ago, bamboozle said:

What it seems like to me is that they're using Indiegogo to quickly raise funds to fulfil back-orders.

 

[bamboozle 5]

7 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

question

That's the spirit

[flx 42]

I agree with some comments above, when we backed on Indiegogo it said we can cancel until December 11. And I'm sure we are numerous to have pulled the trigger because we knew we had some time to think after.

I don't want to cancel my order but in the mean time I have discovered the secret perk and even at some point the 599$ perk returned available (probably from a cancellation). I should have been able to cancel immediately my first perk and take another.

If it was not mentioned the possibility to cancel on Indiegogo I will have made more researches before to pull the trigger and hopefully found the better perk first. I'm not going to fight over 40$ but this is definitely not a good practice and I can understand the stress from people wishing to cancel.

[flx 42]

I was also hoping the AZERTY layout is released while I still can cancel easily...

[bamboozle 5]

6 hours ago, flx said:

I agree with some comments above, when we backed on Indiegogo it said we can cancel until December 11. And I'm sure we are numerous to have pulled the trigger because we knew we had some time to think after.

Yeah, the false sense of security in combination with the fact that the Pre-Early Birds always seem to hang around "5 left" every day, sometimes they run out and then come back soon after (and the number of backers doesn't drop). It really does seem like a tactic create a sense of urgency in securing a purchase, that seems to be more Indiegogo's fault for encouraging bad practices, and having a crappy policy.

I've seen a few others comment about the same issue and then have their comment removed shortly after, it's not like not the campaign owner isn't present either, they just gloss over stuff that isn't positive or refer you to "info@fxtec.com" so you can get a response maybe when they see it.

They really have to stop treating refund requests like general inquiries, that shouldn't be too much to ask.

Also, I'm surprised at some people's ability to miss the point.

Edited November 23, 2020 by bamboozle

[EskeRahn 5,471]

Guessing here, but would not at all be surprised if FxTec themselves was unaware of the the short refund limit Indiegogo has in their policy. And thus has to fiddle with the refunds themselves.

And @flx they said in a comment in indiegogo that you can change the requested layout withou having to cancel and select a new perk. Though they seem to have a rather long queue of handling mails, sending a mail at the last minutes might be a bit risky. So would be great if the actual azerty was published soon. Or at the least the limit for changing layouts will be well after the publication.

[flx 42]

4 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

And @flx they said in a comment in indiegogo that you can change the requested layout withou having to cancel and select a new perk. Though they seem to have a rather long queue of handling mails, sending a mail at the last minutes might be a bit risky. So would be great if the actual azerty was published soon. Or at the least the limit for changing layouts will be well after the publication.

If the Azerty layout does not satisfy me I would not want to change layout, I would want to cancel.

 

(I'm not that hard to satisfy and will not cancel only because it's not perfect, I just want direct-access/printed accentuated letters.)

Edited November 23, 2020 by flx

[flx 42]

 

Seriously !??

[Rob. S. 1,664]

It's one of the "features" Indiegogo offers manufacturers... It lets the manufacturer pass all the usual risks on to the customer. After this stupid year, I suspect Fxtec needs to absolutely minimize their risks for this next "big" production round. I don't like it, either, but if this helps Fxtec to stay in business and make a Pro² at some point, I'd say it's worth it.

[brunoais 334]

On 11/26/2020 at 11:25 AM, Rob. S. said:

It's one of the "features" Indiegogo offers manufacturers...

I went through their stuff in the rules for creators and I figured out it's not even something I'd call a "feature". Igg doesn't even give a choice on the matter. No refunds, even if the creator wants to.

Probable wrong sources used here. See @madeye below.

Edited November 28, 2020 by brunoais
Wrong sources used?

[FlyingAntero 871]

14 minutes ago, brunoais said:

I went through their stuff in the rules for creators and I figured out it's not even something I'd call a "feature". Igg doesn't even give a choice on the matter. No refunds, even if the creator wants to.

That is not true. Initially it was clearly stated that you are able to cancel. Here is the quote:

Quote

Crowdfunding is not shopping. Your donation is a way to support a project but does not guarantee that you will receive a perk.

You may request a full refund from Indiegogo until the campaign ends on December 11, 2020.

Any refunds after this date are the responsibility of the campaign owner, FX Technology, at their discretion.

I don't know why that was changed before 11th December.

[flx 42]

What is crazy is even IGG permitting to put themself in liability like that. It's clearly stated that IGG will refund you until December 11. If you want to force them you could, no matter if they already gave the money to the project.

[madeye 2]

18 hours ago, brunoais said:

I went through their stuff in the rules for creators and I figured out it's not even something I'd call a "feature". Igg doesn't even give a choice on the matter. No refunds, even if the creator wants to.

I've been following the comments for a while, so I decided to have a little look into it. I'm not sure what "stuff" you've been looking at, but it seems a few peeps/affiliates/dedicated fanboys here and there are talking (or typing) out of their arses. So here goes;

For starters I'm sure we know what Indiegogo is, a crowdfunding platform. They don't really have any liability at all and you have to agree their terms if you wish to put your sweet, hard earned money down on that shiny new thing that doesn't exist yet.

Do they guarantee perks? No https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/206389917-Does-Indiegogo-Guarantee-Perks- 

Does them saying you can get a refund any time until a campaign ends mean anything? Sort of https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/526876-Refunds-Can-I-get-my-money-back-

You see the tricky thing is they allow it unless those three things listed at the top of the link occur and this is where it gets interesting. Campaigners don't actually get any money until the campaign ends https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/204484508-When-Do-I-Get-My-Money- so if you're finding that you can't get a refund before the end date we can conclude that it's not because any funds have been sent to fxtec.

Now since the campaign hasn't ended yet, it can't be the second reason. So it must mean that they're being locked before the end date. But how? https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/202916358#Contribution-Management

Looks like the campaign owner has full control over that, not Indiegogo as seems to be claimed by several individuals. The feature seems to be there for when they ship a perk to backers (which makes sense).

Perhaps it's because refunds are just such a difficult process they just can't leave them enabled? Wrong  https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/216271418-How-to-Refund-Backers

Leaving it unlocked would mean they won't have to do anything at all, but what if that ship has sailed? Turns out it's a very easy process, there are even reserve funds that are held by Indiegogo to make refunding people nice and easy after the campaign ends, should you have to. Also, they recommend laying out a clear refund policy to prevent all the head scratching going around here.

So in conclusion, the campaigner has full control over locking perks, and they simply don't want people getting their money back (which technically isn't theirs until the campaign ends). So yeah, it's a little sneaky, also they are within their rights to do it even if its a bit shitty. Can't sue em for being a lil shifty in an email.

Product good, behavior bad. Maybe they really are in trouble?

 

[brunoais 334]

I need to recheck where I got my source data. This is not adding up.

 

Hey, @Erik! About @madeye's post: Proven or disproven?

Is it a choice of yours (which you are entitled to) or is it a platform limitation?

Edited November 28, 2020 by brunoais
Merged double post

[Masterg3sg1 1]

Hey all,

i  requested a refund for my order on 13 May 2020.

The Support worte to me on 2 Sep 2020 : "Thanks for confirming. We've submitted this over to our finance team, and we'll get back to you shortly."

Since then i didnt get any response even after writing multiple mails... can you please look into this case @Erik. I need the money back till 31.12.2020 cause i want to close the connected bank account with the end of this year.

Please any admin or Fx-Tec staff help me...waited over 6 months now...

[EskeRahn 5,471]

7 hours ago, Masterg3sg1 said:

Please any admin or Fx-Tec staff help me...waited over 6 months now...

Uh, this certainly sounds extreme.

Try contacting them from another mailadress, if any mail from them (for what ever reason) do not reach you.

[madeye 2]

On 11/29/2020 at 3:03 AM, Masterg3sg1 said:

Since then i didnt get any response even after writing multiple mails..

Sounds pretty typical. 

I wish I could give you some good advice. It's really when they get around to it, if at all.

Maybe they've got a whole lot of people who want refunds and they're all out of money.

[marmistrz 93]

Out of curiosity, I guess that IGG perks have no warranty either?

[Slion 1,201]

57 minutes ago, marmistrz said:

Out of curiosity, I guess that IGG perks have no warranty either?

My understanding is that they have no obligation the provide any warranty. However they said they would provide warranty on the IGG page.

[marmistrz 93]

14 minutes ago, Slion said:

My understanding is that they have no obligation the provide any warranty. However they said they would provide warranty on the IGG page.

I must've missed that, thanks!

[Slion 1,201]

32 minutes ago, marmistrz said:

I must've missed that, thanks!

So did I:

😁

Edited December 1, 2020 by Slion