[Pro1 and Pro1 X design change to use Snapdragon 662, no new devices before August 2021]

I really believe that this kind of discussion is fruitless. If we agree on the common goal of keeping keyboard phones alive, there is no choice but to back the (few) companies like Fxtec. However, there being no choice sadly does not mean there is a guarantee of success: not every transfer of money is a purchase whose object can be claimed.

Think of it like this: If I donate money to WWF to help them save the Amur leopard, and then the cat goes extinct nonetheless, would I get refunded? No, of course, I wouldn't. And I still donate every year.

[Pro1 and Pro1 X design change to use Snapdragon 662, no new devices before August 2021]

From indiegogo.com:

"By contributing to a Campaign, Contributors are supporting an idea, project, or cause they care about and want to help make happen. Like anyone getting in on an early-stage project, Contributors accept the risk that the Campaign may experience changes, delays, and unforeseen challenges, or that a Campaign, and its Perks, might not come to fruition."

That seems pretty clear and honest to me. What are you complaining about?

[Pro1 and Pro1 X design change to use Snapdragon 662, no new devices before August 2021]

22 minutes ago, flx said:

Here we have fxtec (EU/English company) selling products to EU consumers (and also non-EU off-course), what tool was used in the middle to do this sell does not matter at this point.

Again, being no lawyer, I doubt this.

Backers have a well-defined contract with IGG, see here.

IGG is a US company, so its contracts with customers are bound to US law only. IGG may choose to cooperate with international partners on a project, including partners from the EU or Britain (Fxtec). However that does not mean that backers have any direct contract with that partner.

I think the picture that Fxtec is "selling" the Pro1-X through IGG is wrong. They gather money though IGG in the hope that it will be sufficient to actually build the phone and then (and only then) deliver it. Providing that money is the essence of your contract with IGG (not with Fxtec).

[Pro1 and Pro1 X design change to use Snapdragon 662, no new devices before August 2021]

18 minutes ago, flx said:

And with all of that we are all protected by EU consumer laws on remote orders. So even the 14 days return on reception applies if you don't like what you receive.

On IGG we pay a precise amount of money in exchange of a service or product with a delivery date. It's the definition of a contract like any other.

I am no lawyer (and am happy about that). However, what you write is the opposite of what IGG promises to their partners. They explicitly state that backer's money does not need to be refunded in case of a project failure.

Also, despite of being a proud European myself, I do not see how (or why) EU law should be applicable to a California company.

[Pro1 and Pro1 X design change to use Snapdragon 662, no new devices before August 2021]

10 hours ago, namikiri said:

Hello. Is there any chance to get a refund? I've contacted the Fxtec team via IGG on February 11 but still got no response.

As you read from others, you will not get any official reponse on this forum.

IGG rules (as far as I understand them) allow Fxtec to either choose to refund backers or keep the money nontheless in the case their project (the Pro1-X) fails.

Now, they seem pretty serious about not letting the project fail, but modifiy the Pro1-X such that it can still be delivered. So (again, as far as I understand those things) the "project" (the Pro1-X) is still alive and well, and refunding (all) backers is not even in question.

As I have previously stated, I believe the Pro1-X will be the best keyboard phone on the market in spite of a less powerful SoC compared to the original Pro1. So, personally, I advise you to just wait for your device.

If you think the design change is such that you cannot support the project any longer, ask Fxtec to please (!) undo your backing of the project by sending your money back. I doubt that you can legally enforce a refund.

[Android SSH client for multiple connections to the same host]

The downside is that you have to make a set of identical session profiles in advance. I mostly connect to the same server and I know that I very rarely need more than 3 connections simultaneously -- so it is a viable solution for now, but it is not perfect.

Ideally, the app would automatically spawn one more identical session if you activate the same profile a second time (say by tapping your home screen shortcut twice). However ConnectBot cannot do that -- in contrast to JuiceSSH as I understand.

<nostalgia>
On the N900 one could just spawn an unlimited number of terminals via the Fn-Ctrl-x shortcut, and Maemo's UI made switching between the windows so convenient ... ah, the good old times ...
</nostalgia>

[Android SSH client for multiple connections to the same host]

14 hours ago, claude0001 said:

I have read suggestions to simply set up two (or more) distinct session-profiles to the same host in ConnectBot. However, that does not seem to work ...

Turns out I just underestimated ConnectBot! It can indeed open multiple sessions at once, and even makes switching between them really simple: one just needs to swipe the screen to left or right to jump between open terminal windows. Awsome but (seemingly) undocumented feature.

I now made three shortcuts to my server, so I can comfortably open up to three different terminal sessions to it.

JuiceSSH seems nice, but unfortunately it is not FOSS, so I do not want to use it. I am a little picky about that. Thanks anyway! 

[Android SSH client for multiple connections to the same host]

@3zet:

13 hours ago, claude0001 said:

Of course I know that I can create detached sessions on the remote host with the 'screen' command. However, that is not what I want.

😉

[Android SSH client for multiple connections to the same host]

I should probably have said that I do have a GNU/Linux running in a Chroot that allows me to start a full X11-desktop if I really need it.

However for simple CLI-work, I want to have a lightweight Android app around that allows me to spawn an SSH session via a shortcut on my homescreen with a single tap (I use PSK authentication).

Up to now I thought termux was too heavy for that purpose and that it would simply duplicate features my Chroot provides anyway. Maybe I should give it a try after all, thanks for the suggestion.

[Android SSH client for multiple connections to the same host]

As probably many do, I regularly use my Pro1 for logging into remote Un*x machines via SSH. I use ConnectBot for that purpose and am in principle quite happy with it.

Sometimes, however, I would like to open several SSH sessions to the same remote host in parallel. Of course I know that I can create detached sessions on the remote host with the 'screen' command. However, that is not what I want. Ideally, I would like the app to spawn several terminal instances side-by-side, so I can switch between them from the home screen. Essentially, I want the equivalent of multiple SSH sessions running in distinct xterms. Alternatively, a concept of "tabs" (or alike) within the app would be acceptable too. I should say that for such a security-critical task as SSH-logins, I accept only FLOSS software.

I find myself unable to achieve that with ConnectBot (or its derivatives) and also have not found any alternative app which explicitly features this possibility. I have read suggestions to simply set up two (or more) distinct session-profiles to the same host in ConnectBot. However, that does not seem to work: as soon as I open the second ConnectBot session, the first one somehow disappears in the background, and can be accessed only after I close the later one ...

[PRO1, LineageOS 17.1 Official Builds: Discussion]

23 minutes ago, Rob. S. said:

Why can't I give you a 'thanks' and a 'like'?

Did that for you. 🙂

Awesome support, @EskeRahn!

[Another keyboard (for a) phone: the PinePhone]

49 minutes ago, _DW_ said:

I believe also that more work has been done on the other OS than ubports but unfortunately I've not managed to get a device yet so can't say on that 😞 I am sure manjaro was more complete.

Yes, on their website it says the phone will ship preinstalled with Manjaro as OS and PlasmaMobile as UI. So I guess that gives the best normal-user experience. That said, a plethora of operating systems have been shown to run on the phone already. Community support for the device is impressive ...

[1 Year Anniversary]

2 hours ago, sequestris said:

I've been using it for months no with no issue. Bought it in a brick and mortar too.

As @VaZso and @EskeRahn point out, if the card's capacity is faked, you will not notice the fake until you try to actually use the full capacity, which you probably didn't up to now.

A priori, I do not see why a brick-and-mortar shop should be any more reliable than an online one, unless either you are on cordial terms with the people running it, or it is a big brand that would not realistically risk selling fakes ...

[Surprise! A Pro¹]

55 minutes ago, Rob. S. said:

I easily managed to flip up the screen at first try!

You're obviously talented. I can't do that single-handed half a year into using the phone 🙂. I did stop training after the Pro1 almost jumped out of my hand once.

Congrats on your purchase. This user forum naturally tends to over-emphasise the problems of the Pro1. All-in-all, it is a quite solid phone. While there certainly are devices with significant manufacturing flaws, I suspect they are a very small minority. 

[1 Year Anniversary]

12 hours ago, sequestris said:

I have a 2TB SD card. Paid $89 for it. Done deal. And it's a Samsung.

In Samsung's official shop [samsung.com] I cannot find any micro-SDs larger than 512 GB, and those are already more expensive than that. I also think you should test the card before you rely on it.

[Another keyboard (for a) phone: the PinePhone]

44 minutes ago, VaZso said:

I have a Pinephone from the very first batch.

How is it? What OS have you got installed? Are the core phone functions (telephony, texting, mobile data, ...) working reliably?

I had read about this project some time ago, but somehow lost it from my radar. I get that the system is far less powerful than the Pro1. Also I am no longer sure I could realistically survive without my Android apps. However, as a (real) mobile Linux playground, the PinePhone may just be ideal ...

[Pro1 and Pro1 X design change to use Snapdragon 662, no new devices before August 2021]

8 hours ago, lawliett said:

The line is when they take the money to Las Vegas and blow it on hookers and cocaine. And then they realize they need more money, so they delay shipping in order to solicit more funds, so they can provide refunds to people who threaten to sue. Thus, the organization becomes a ponzi scheme where new investor money is used to pay off old investors. 

But I don't think that's the case here, hopefully... >.<

This is, simultaneously, the most hilarious and most important post I have read here in the last few days. Thanks @lawliett.

People, try to relax a little. If Fxtec wanted, they could probably take the money from the IGG campaign and leave. Obviously, they don't. They try to deliver a keyboard phone that is as close as possible to what backers bet their money on.

Conspiracy theorists believing Fxtec set this all up for drawing money out of a minuscule (!) community of keyboard phone enthusiasts probably cannot be healed anyhow. Still, I want to stress that I write this holding my Pro1 in hand. And I wonder: if this device really is just part of some huge scam, then it is a really, really well designed scam ... 

[Pro1 and Pro1 X design change to use Snapdragon 662, no new devices before August 2021]

16 minutes ago, lawliett said:

It's okay just wait 5 years and once we have AR glasses we'll no longer have to worry about keyboard phones.

... unless the next pandemic is around by then and my respiratory mask gets the AR glasses steamed up all the time. 🙂

Obligatory xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1891/.

Other than that, you may have some good points there, indeed.

[Pro1 and Pro1 X design change to use Snapdragon 662, no new devices before August 2021]

@Hook  is probably right. Like for the original Pro1, Fxtec will provide pre-production devices to Lineage and UBPorts (maybe Sailfish, too?) community developers. They have the necessary connections in the community, so I am quite confident there will be at least unofficial ports of LineageOS and UbuntuTouch available by the time the Pro1-X hits the marked. Pro1-X will be supported by upstream (Android) much longer than the original Pro1. I have no worries that, in the long term, it will get a strong community of developers behind it.

In my own interest, I of course hope community support for the original Pro1 will not suffer from that. But probably it will be regarded as the "true" Pro1 for some time to come, so hopefully there will be enough community interest in it, too, so both devices can live side-by-side.

[PRO1, LineageOS 17.1 Official Builds: Discussion]

18 minutes ago, Chris2 said:

In LOS 16 this was in line with the homescreen grid. Now it is just 4x6.

I had never tried different grid sizes. But I can now confirm that in my LOS 16, the App overview menu has the same number of columns I set in the home screen.

Unfortunately I cannot help further with LOS 17.1 -- but indeed something seems to have changed there, then.

[Pro1 and Pro1 X design change to use Snapdragon 662, no new devices before August 2021]

31 minutes ago, flx said:

I don't get the link between their supplier and their PCB and why they are tied like that with a bad supplier...

Without being an expert, I get that their partner manufacturing the PCB relies on an upstream supplier who cannot deliver the 835 anymore, but there is a licence for the 662 instead.

Other PCP manufacturers could still purchase the 835 (from their different upstreams). However Fxtec cannot switch, as they do not own the PCB blueprints. Any new PCB supplier would have to re-design the board from scratch according to Fxtec specs, which they cannot afford.

[Pro1 and Pro1 X design change to use Snapdragon 662, no new devices before August 2021]

3 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

I for one would rather have the Pro1X I perked for with a 662, than just lost my money.

That would be my approach too.

I am not directly affected for now, as I have my Pro1 and did not order a Pro1-X. However, I do worry that Fxtec may not survive this disaster if people keep freaking out like this.

There is no evidence suggesting Fxtec were a band of crooks. I have not read a single story here where, in the end, anyone did not either finally get their phone or their money back. Theories suggesting Fxtec purposedly spread lies to suck money out of their community really have no grounds, and I suggest people (here and on the Indiegogo forum) think twice before uttering such accusations. 

In my opinion, Fxtec are a company of tech enthusiasts -- they obviously love their product, and I sincerely believe they more than anyone want to make the perfect phone for their customers. Problem is (in my view, again) as much as they excel as engineers, they are lacking competence in PR, marketing, and business relations. So they make (quite a lot of) mistakes in those fields. And being the small start-up they are, they get pushed around by the big boys anyway. 

However they got into this situation, I think they are making the best out of it. They have explained their reasons for choosing the new SoC. Yes, it is disappointing to have to settle for an inferior CPU and GPU. However, I am quite sure all the things I do with my Pro1 could be done with the new Pro1-X and I would not be able to tell the difference. Yes, gamers will probably see lower FPS. But (in my opinion, once more) the Pro1(-X) has always been more of a workhorse than a sportscar.

I'll try to take extra good care of my Pro1 now. But should it die anytime soon (and Fxtec hopefully still be around), I would certainly try to replace it with a 662-Pro1-X. It will still be the only real keyboard smartphone out there ... And that's what I'm after, not some random chipset. 

Please, try to relax a little! 🙂

[Pro1 and Pro1 X design change to use Snapdragon 662, no new devices before August 2021]

1 minute ago, Robert said:

Is there anyone from the Fxtec team willing to answer this question?

To me, the message they released reads like the decision for the 662 stands. They were informing us about the new facts, not trying to seek our advice.

[PRO1, LineageOS 17.1 Official Builds: Discussion]

11 hours ago, Chris2 said:

Last, the overview of all apps seems to be limited to 4 icons per row making it cumbersome to get to the right icon as I have to scroll a lot. Is this a limitation of 17.1 or did I just miss the option for this?

Do you mean the homescreen grid? That defaults to 4x5 (columns x rows) also in my LineageOS 16. However if I wanted, I could increase it up to 9x9 in the "Home settings" menu. Is that option gone in LOS 17.1?  

[Pro1 and Pro1 X design change to use Snapdragon 662, no new devices before August 2021]

Experience tells that time estimates from Fxtec tend to be very optimistic ...

I think a re-design of the device into a Pro2 (with different radios) would take very long before being ready for shipping. I woudn't expect anything less than a year, probably even significantly longer. During all that time they would not deliver a single phone anymore. I think Fxtec cannot afford such a long absence form the market.

I am also disappointed by this development, but downgrading to the inferior SoC for maximum compatibility with the existing design is probably the only thing they can do now.