F(x)tec on Verizon?

[Polaris 423]

2 hours ago, Flounder said:

Alright, so after reading all of this.  I'm still fairly confused.  I currently have a galaxy S8 on Verizon and want to just change phones to the Pro1.  I can't just transfer the SIM card correct? So I have to buy another device and activate it, then use the new device's SIM card?  So I'll have to buy an extra phone to get this done?  Is the right?

There is no guarantee that an old SIM, that has been heavily used in a device over a period of time, will work.  Speaking from experience, often a fresh SIM card, that gets activated in the mule phone, and then VoLTE is activated and tested (as well as SMS and data -data includes MMS messages) is required.  The problem above, and possibly your confusion, was that the voice calls that were made on the mule weren't actual VoLTE calls, instead the calls were completing via CDMA or GSM/UMTS and it was assumed that they were VoLTE.  This is a problem, so to be certain that VoLTE calls are taking place it's advisable to go into Settings (on the mule) and change the Preferred Network Type to LTE.  This will then only use LTE services for voice and data.  If everything checks out okay, you can then transfer the SIM card to the Pro1.

Note: The S8 won't be able to be re-activated on Verizon's network (as it will still show the S8's IMEI as active), but, if necessary, you can swap the SIM card back into it and use it.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Polaris
Added the note

[JoseJX 3]

On 12/14/2019 at 1:37 PM, Hook said:

Holy crap!!! I got Verizon to work!!!!   Both I and Verizon missed a step.  I was confused because I had verified my G6 was provisioned for VoLTEand that it could send and receieve calls if I set the preferred network to LTE/GSM/UMTS (If I remember the acronyms right-- it was the choice that didn't have CDMA) and that things were that way before they swapped the SIM.  What I hadn't done was make sure VoLTE was turned on on the Pro1.  I put in the SIM and typed in the phone menu sequence: *#*#4636#*#*.  There are 3 provisioning switches on the Pro1.  I shrugged and flipped all three and restarted the phone.  I have 4g and I can make calls and text.  My online account still thinks I have a G6-- don't know if that will cause trouble later when the IMEI looks different.  So I may go by and see if I can make this official with the Verizon folks who were so helpful before.

The key thing to note is that the Pro 1 works with Verizon!

😀 I'm glad that I was able to help find the missing piece to get this working! I still haven't had a chance to re-activate my phone on Total Wireless, but from your experience, I expect that it'll work great when I do! A 9 month old makes it a little hard to find time for this...

[fxtec5 18]

I posted this same response in the general carrier compatibility thread, but then realized it probably belongs in this thread instead....

I was able to activate mine on verizon with VoLTE, using my existing droid 4 sim on a pay-as-you-go plan.

I just punched the sim down from the micro sizes in my droid 4 down to a the nano size that the pro1 needs, ran the *#*#4636#*#* trick, and it worked.

That said - if you are looking for a provider to use with the phone, so far I would not recommend verizon. Due to the fact that it is _only_ on LTE, the performance of the phone in marginal coverage areas is... poor... since it cannot drop back down to 3g or lesser networks. Fingers crossed that fxtec gets off their butts and gets the phones officially listed on verizon so the cdma bands start working because my house has marginal coverage and being LTE only is miserable.

Disclaimer - my droid 4 sim has spent some time in a galaxy S5 which has been using VoLTE, so the sim was known to be VoLTE provisioned before the swap. The sim itself is about a year old, and was used with VoLTE in the S5 basically immediately after I got the sim. But it was not a 'fresh' sim by any reasonable definition. If anyone is curious, the APN was automatically detected correctly as "VZWINTERNET", but only after setting the VoLTE sliders in the testing menu. Before activating VoLTE I briefly got service, but shortly after the phone went into 911 only mode as if the sim were not active. After enabling VoLTE and rebooting the APN was correctly detected and my missed SMS messages were delivered immediately after the 4G logo appeared on the status bar.

[Polaris 423]

10 minutes ago, fxtec5 said:

I posted this same response in the general carrier compatibility thread, but then realized it probably belongs in this thread instead....

As such, I'll post my response here too...

Thanks for the update, I'm glad you got it wroking.  The key here is that your SIM was only about a year old and spent time in a VoLTE phone.  I have tried multiple old (as in original from when I originally got my D4s) SIMs from Droid 4s, and not one was able to be provisioned for VoLTE; instead, all of them required replacement.

Edit: In thinking about it further, I don't believe any of my original SIMs, as provided by Verizon, were anything but micro SIMs, they couldn't be 'punched down' to a nano SIM.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Polaris

[fxtec5 18]

Yes I believe you are correct - the key here is that I already had a modern sim as a result of the plan change last year.

 

I am not sure of the exact timeline, but nanosims have been available since late 2012 so it is possible that late droid 4's came with them. VoLTE has been available form verizon sine late 2014, so it in general is possible that someone has a nano sim but a phone that predates VoLTE. The S5 I have is from the first batch of VoLTE phones (also late 2014) and despite having been on the verizon network on and off for 5 years now (both on my current pay-as-you-go and a previous contract based plan) was sufficient to get my sim provisioned for VoLTE.

[C-HN 14]

54 minutes ago, fxtec5 said:

That said - if you are looking for a provider to use with the phone, so far I would not recommend verizon. Due to the fact that it is _only_ on LTE, the performance of the phone in marginal coverage areas is... poor... since it cannot drop back down to 3g or lesser networks. Fingers crossed that fxtec gets off their butts and gets the phones officially listed on verizon so the cdma bands start working because my house has marginal coverage and being LTE only is miserable.

Given that Verizon is shutting off their lesser networks in about a year (unless they change their minds again) this is likely to be a moot point when the time comes. If memory serves, they won't actually be retiring the frequencies, just rolling them into LTE so it all works the same way, meaning if true, in theory, we should have the same level of voice and lower-level data access without IMEI. I could be wrong, of course.

[Polaris 423]

3 hours ago, fxtec5 said:

Yes I believe you are correct - the key here is that I already had a modern sim as a result of the plan change last year.

 

I am not sure of the exact timeline, but nanosims have been available since late 2012 so it is possible that late droid 4's came with them. VoLTE has been available form verizon sine late 2014, so it in general is possible that someone has a nano sim but a phone that predates VoLTE. The S5 I have is from the first batch of VoLTE phones (also late 2014) and despite having been on the verizon network on and off for 5 years now (both on my current pay-as-you-go and a previous contract based plan) was sufficient to get my sim provisioned for VoLTE.

I agree with you about the 2012 and 2014 dates for nanoSIMs and VoLTE (respectively), but I'm pretty certain that all of my Droid 4s came with microSIMs, regardless of whether they were early or late ones.  The one I'm using now is a later one (not sure of the year, but it replaced a D3 that was in service for a very long time) and I just popped it open to double check, and sure enough, it's a microSIM (only).

[silversolver 849]

5 hours ago, fxtec5 said:

I posted this same response in the general carrier compatibility thread, but then realized it probably belongs in this thread instead....

I was able to activate mine on verizon with VoLTE, using my existing droid 4 sim on a pay-as-you-go plan.

I just punched the sim down from the micro sizes in my droid 4 down to a the nano size that the pro1 needs, ran the *#*#4636#*#* trick, and it worked.

That said - if you are looking for a provider to use with the phone, so far I would not recommend verizon. Due to the fact that it is _only_ on LTE, the performance of the phone in marginal coverage areas is... poor... since it cannot drop back down to 3g or lesser networks. Fingers crossed that fxtec gets off their butts and gets the phones officially listed on verizon so the cdma bands start working because my house has marginal coverage and being LTE only is miserable.

Disclaimer - my droid 4 sim has spent some time in a galaxy S5 which has been using VoLTE, so the sim was known to be VoLTE provisioned before the swap. The sim itself is about a year old, and was used with VoLTE in the S5 basically immediately after I got the sim. But it was not a 'fresh' sim by any reasonable definition. If anyone is curious, the APN was automatically detected correctly as "VZWINTERNET", but only after setting the VoLTE sliders in the testing menu. Before activating VoLTE I briefly got service, but shortly after the phone went into 911 only mode as if the sim were not active. After enabling VoLTE and rebooting the APN was correctly detected and my missed SMS messages were delivered immediately after the 4G logo appeared on the status bar.

I'm interested if VoWiFi is an option for Verizon with this phone to improve signal in your home. I have a report of it working with T-Mobile, so the device apparently supports it, but the report was that T-Mobile had to do something on their end to make it work, so perhaps it won't work on Verizon since they are ignoring us and we're just finding workarounds. It would be interesting to attempt VoWiFi though.

[Hook 2,821]

2 hours ago, silversolver said:

I'm interested if VoWiFi is an option for Verizon with this phone to improve signal in your home. I have a report of it working with T-Mobile, so the device apparently supports it, but the report was that T-Mobile had to do something on their end to make it work, so perhaps it won't work on Verizon since they are ignoring us and we're just finding workarounds. It would be interesting to attempt VoWiFi though.

I just tried it and it works fine on Verizon.  I tested it both by turning off my mobile radio (I was still able to make calls-- since I don't have CDMA, it had to be via WiFi) and by making a Farcebook Messenger call (I know, it's embarrassing to have that on such a fine phone, but it's how my wife chooses to communicate).  There is no setting I could find to turn VoWifi on or off.  If you search settings it lists Wifi Calling, but when you tap it, it sends you to Network settings and there is nothing specific there.

 

EDIT: Okay, found it.  It's also provisioned on the menu you get by typing *#*#4636#*#* and it was switched on by default. 👍

Edited December 27, 2019 by Hook

[silversolver 849]

10 hours ago, Hook said:

I just tried it and it works fine on Verizon.  I tested it both by turning off my mobile radio (I was still able to make calls-- since I don't have CDMA, it had to be via WiFi) and by making a Farcebook Messenger call (I know, it's embarrassing to have that on such a fine phone, but it's how my wife chooses to communicate).  There is no setting I could find to turn VoWifi on or off.  If you search settings it lists Wifi Calling, but when you tap it, it sends you to Network settings and there is nothing specific there.

 

EDIT: Okay, found it.  It's also provisioned on the menu you get by typing *#*#4636#*#* and it was switched on by default. 👍

Thank you for sharing this. It's very good to know and I'll add it to the compatibility list. I don't think it's actually on by default though, because part of the process to make it work on Verizon currently is to go to that menu and turn everything on. ;)

Also, thank you for calling that embarrassing network by its correct name. :)

Edited December 28, 2019 by silversolver

[Hook 2,821]

30 minutes ago, silversolver said:

Thank you for sharing this. It's very good to know and I'll add it to the compatibility list. I don't think it's actually on by default though, because part of the process to make it work on Verizon currently is to go to that menu and turn everything on. 😉

Also, thank you for calling that embarrassing network by its correct name. 🙂

No, actually it is on by default.  To provision VoLTE I had to flip 3 switches (go back to my original description).  This is a fourth switch and I didn't have to flip it.  Not sure why VoWiFI would be enabled and VoLTE not as a default, but that is apparently what I had.  Lol.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Hook

[silversolver 849]

Just now, Hook said:

No, actually it is on by default.  To provision VoLTE I had to flip 3 switched (go back to my original description).  This is a fourth switch and I didn't have to flip it.  Not sure why VoWiFI would be enabled and VoLTE not as a default, but that is apparently what I had.  Lol.

I knew you flipped 3, but didn't know there were 4. I don't have that menu yet. 😮

[Hook 2,821]

2 minutes ago, silversolver said:

I knew you flipped 3, but didn't know there were 4. I don't have that menu yet. 😮

Actualy, I think I'm wrong.  I remembered 3 switches, so thought it was a fourth switch, which it was-- but that mobile radio switch had to have been on ll the time, so, tes this was the third switch I threw way back when.  Lol.

[silversolver 849]

2 minutes ago, Hook said:

Actualy, I think I'm wrong.  I remembered 3 switches, so thought it was a fourth switch, which it was-- but that mobile radio switch had to have been on ll the time, so, tes this was the third switch I threw way back when.  Lol.

What I'd like to know is what is the priority for selection? Use WiFi whenever available? Use it when it has the stronger signal? Use it only when nothing else is available? Things that make you go hmmmmmm

[EskeRahn 5,350]

10 hours ago, Hook said:

Actualy, I think I'm wrong.  I remembered 3 switches, so thought it was a fourth switch, which it was-- but that mobile radio switch had to have been on ll the time, so, tes this was the third switch I threw way back when.  Lol.

Note the "Set Preferred Network Type". It MIGHT say "Unknown" in the above image (do so here by default!), and if you change things when it says "Unknown" things does not work at all afterwards (not even sms), and you will need to set this, I did that from the 'official', settings, network settings, ..., and not from this 'hidden' menu. I do not know if both works equally well, but just a warning if others experiences issues.

[Hook 2,821]

1 hour ago, EskeRahn said:

Note the "Set Preferred Network Type". It MIGHT say "Unknown" in the above image (do so here by default!), and if you change things when it says "Unknown" things does not work at all afterwards (not even sms), and you will need to set this, I did that from the 'official', settings, network settings, ..., and not from this 'hidden' menu. I do not know if both works equally well, but just a warning if others experiences issues.

Yeah, I have a different preferred network set in settings (no CDMA).  What you see in my screenshot was the default setting and I didn't touch it because everything worked after throwing the switches. 

[Hook 2,821]

Okay, that was weird.

Noticed this morning that my phone wasn't working.  No calls, no texts, etc.  It occurred to me to try what @EskeRahn suggested above, but when I went into the phone menu, I discovered all the switches had been turned off.  I switched  them back on and everything is fine.

It's tempting to think this was some side effect of rooting, since that is the only change I have made lately.  I'm not sure how (these hidden settings are stored in boot sector?), and to be clear it may be coincidence.  However, I would prefer that to be the case rather than "There's this weird thing where the Pro 1 just decides to reset it's phone defaults every so often."  😲 😂

[EskeRahn 5,350]

6 hours ago, Hook said:

Okay, that was weird.

Noticed this morning that my phone wasn't working.  No calls, no texts, etc.  It occurred to me to try what @EskeRahn suggested above, but when I went into the phone menu, I discovered all the switches had been turned off.  I switched  them back on and everything is fine.

It's tempting to think this was some side effect of rooting, since that is the only change I have made lately.  I'm not sure how (these hidden settings are stored in boot sector?), and to be clear it may be coincidence.  However, I would prefer that to be the case rather than "There's this weird thing where the Pro 1 just decides to reset it's phone defaults every so often."  😲 😂

I have seen similar issues too with sms/mms after fiddling in the test-menu, or band-selection. A simple restart fixed it though. I guess some stuff does not get 'notified' when things gets changed, so a restart is required to straighten things out.

[GeekOnTheHill 27]

You can get any device that is certified as meeting the Open Development LTE requirements (which also presupposes FCC approval) activated on VZW as long as it supports the bands and VoLTE.

The problem is finding someone at Verizon who knows how to do it. You may have to do it for them, which is why I think it might be easier to do it from a store than over the phone. If you're opening up a new account conditional on getting the device working, the salesman has some extra motivation.

The basic process is to make sure your billing account and your network account are in sync (which one would think would always be the case, but in which assumption one would be wrong), at which time a new option will magically appear on the provisioning menu to activate the device as a CDMA-Less (LTE-Only VoLTE) device.

Once that's done, the device should start working almost immediately. It may or may not require a reboot.

Richard

[Hook 2,821]

42 minutes ago, GeekOnTheHill said:

You can get any device that is certified as meeting the Open Development LTE requirements (which also presupposes FCC approval) activated on VZW as long as it supports the bands and VoLTE.

The problem is finding someone at Verizon who knows how to do it. You may have to do it for them, which is why I think it might be easier to do it from a store than over the phone. If you're opening up a new account conditional on getting the device working, the salesman has some extra motivation.

The basic process is to make sure your billing account and your network account are in sync (which one would think would always be the case, but in which assumption one would be wrong), at which time a new option will magically appear on the provisioning menu to activate the device as a CDMA-Less (LTE-Only VoLTE) device.

Once that's done, the device should start working almost immediately. It may or may not require a reboot.

Richard

That's pretty much what I did, as described in my earlier post in this thread: 

The tricky part is that they won't officially activate the Pro 1 on their network because it isn't certified by them.  This was working with them in the shop.  So my pro 1 has the sim from my Moto G6 and the network thinks my Pro 1 is my Moto G6 (which Verizon is fine with-- they know).  It's something to do with, until they convert fully over to LTE and ditch the CDMA network, the phone has to be certified on the CDMA network still, but only certified phones are allowed.  But, yes, the phone works fine as a VoLTE and ViWiFi phone as long as the old SIM is from a VoLTE enabled phone.

[GeekOnTheHill 27]

1 hour ago, Hook said:

That's pretty much what I did, as described in my earlier post in this thread: 

The tricky part is that they won't officially activate the Pro 1 on their network because it isn't certified by them.  This was working with them in the shop.  So my pro 1 has the sim from my Moto G6 and the network thinks my Pro 1 is my Moto G6 (which Verizon is fine with-- they know).  It's something to do with, until they convert fully over to LTE and ditch the CDMA network, the phone has to be certified on the CDMA network still, but only certified phones are allowed.  But, yes, the phone works fine as a VoLTE and ViWiFi phone as long as the old SIM is from a VoLTE enabled phone.

It really doesn't have to be certified by Verizon anymore. It has to be certified as meeting the Open Development LTE requirements. The problem is that the idea of Verizon-certified phones is so ingrained in their system and their culture that it has to be done manually, and very few Verizon employees know how to do it (nor even that they're allowed to).

The easiest way for a manufacturer to avoid hassles is to get their phone certified as meeting OD LTE requirements first, and then submit it to Verizon for approval. If it has the right radios, it should be a rubber stamp approval that will get the model in the database so IMEI / MEID checks work. In theory, at least. In practice, who knows...

Even some unlocked phones that are Verizon-certified have to go through the manual process described above unless the SIM was muled from a phone that had VoLTE activated. They've been using their own phones exclusively for a long, long time. It's going to take them some time to transition to a more open system.

Richard

 

 

[Polaris 423]

8 hours ago, GeekOnTheHill said:

The easiest way for a manufacturer to avoid hassles is to get their phone certified as meeting OD LTE requirements first, and then submit it to Verizon for approval. If it has the right radios, it should be a rubber stamp approval that will get the model in the database so IMEI / MEID checks work. In theory, at least. In practice, who knows...

Who knows???  I do!  It's not going to happen anytime soon, Verizon is a big bureaucracy that is consumed with policy (or what they believe to be policy).  Not faulting Verizon over the other large carriers, they are all close to the same with policy nightmares, but Verizon and Sprint (here in the US) have IMEI/MEID problems (while 3G is still in play).

[Craig 1,435]

On 1/2/2020 at 3:07 PM, GeekOnTheHill said:

You can get any device that is certified as meeting the Open Development LTE requirements (which also presupposes FCC approval) activated on VZW as long as it supports the bands and VoLTE.

This is no better than the way people have done it already, it's still not using the CDMA bands the device supports.   Verizon needs to activate Pro¹ with all the radios including 2G/3G, not just 4G.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Craig

[GeekOnTheHill 27]

46 minutes ago, Craig said:

This is no better than the way people have done it already, it's still not using the CDMA bands the device supports.   Verizon needs to activate Pro¹ with all the radios including 2G/3G, not just 4G.

This isn't a device-specific limitation. VZW is no longer activating even their own CDMA devices. All new activations will be VoLTE.

https://www.verizonwireless.com/support/knowledge-base-218813/

CDMA also can't be swapped to new devices, so muling won't (or at least shouldn't) work with CDMA. It might, because CDMA has nothing to do with the SIM card, so it might carry over from the account settings; but I wouldn't count on it.

Existing CDMA devices will still work for at least another year.

Richard

Edited January 4, 2020 by GeekOnTheHill

[Craig 1,435]

I believe all that means is VZW will no longer activate devices that don't support volte, not that they won't support cdma on devices that do support volte (that they are willing to activate).  That's been the case for a while.  

Edited January 4, 2020 by Craig