Refund request handled slowly

[Val 75]

1 hour ago, SchattengestaIt said:

I just wanted to inform you all that I received my refund just in this minute (realtime transfer).
It took a while but they are definitely not scamming anybody.

Indeed. They can be rightfully accused for many things, but they are not scammers. 

[VaZso 1,998]

3 hours ago, Val said:

Indeed. They can be rightfully accused for many things, but they are not scammers. 

Right. A lot of us have already received their order - including me - and they are still sending out units.

I hope they can fulfill all of their current orders soon.

This is a really good phone, so I hope others will also have this piece of rare style but very useful phone with a great keyboard (especially the non-shifted QWERTZ variant but this is only my own opinion as never used the shifted QWERTY one).

[HMA 7]

Unfortunately I have the same problem.

I ordered the phone on November 30 and never got it. I was a patient customer, monitored this forum and was thrilled to finally get my hands on a phone with a physical keyboard.

After I had to buy an alternative device, I cancelled my order on June 17. Today, more than seven weeks and some emails later, I still haven't received my refund.

We have heard many excuses in the last months, and of course it was never f(x)tec's fault. While I could understand many of them, a company that is not able to perform essential business operations (transferring money to someone) without whining that this is really complicated is a bit irritating for me.

Just to understand myself correctly: I don't think they are scammers either. In fact I think they are very dedicated people who have developed a good and innovative phone. Nevertheless, I am quite disappointed about the handling of my order and cancellation. I now have to enforce the refund, which will cost both parties time and money, and I am a bit sad that this will be the end of my Pro1 story. This is one reason why I share it here. The other reason is that some people got a refund after posting here. So it's kind of a last hope to settle this thing.

[EskeRahn 5,471]

2 hours ago, Helge Martin said:

...a company that is not able to perform essential business operations (transferring money to someone) without whining that this is really complicated is a bit irritating for me.

I think it all comes down to one simple thing: A small company with very few people, that have to be everywhere doing everything 24x7x52...

But SURE it is annoying that refunds are not a simple online operation - but as they explained to us before the UK bank got a special requirement for a director to physically visit the bank to do so. And that is a LOT of expensive time wasted for a CEO, so I guess they try to collect a bunch before going - and (hopefully) refund requests are rare....

[HMA 7]

On 8/7/2020 at 2:02 PM, EskeRahn said:

But SURE it is annoying that refunds are not a simple online operation - but as they explained to us before the UK bank got a special requirement for a director to physically visit the bank to do so. And that is a LOT of expensive time wasted for a CEO, so I guess they try to collect a bunch before going - and (hopefully) refund requests are rare....

Thank you for your encouraging answer.

I am pretty sure that this is not a standard requirement of banks in the UK. To me it looks more like an f(x)tec internal policy or a bank with trust issues with a customer.

Regardless, to me it would be a very crazy combination if you have to make transactions in person but do not visit the bank for two month - no matter how busy you are waiting for your phones to be shipped. They would be very lucky if they had to pay not a single other bill in this period.

I am sorry for the tone of this postings, which is usually not my style. I guess I am just disappointed that there is still no reaction. It will cost me over 10% of the money to enforce the refund and I really had to scrimp and save for that phone I never got.

If they are not in financial troubles, I do not understand why they do not respond - risking people running around the internet and spreading warnings on their credibility.

[EskeRahn 5,471]

15 minutes ago, Helge Martin said:

Regardless, to me it would be a very crazy combination if you have to make transactions in person but do not visit the bank for two month - no matter how busy you are waiting for your phones to be shipped. They would be very lucky if they had to pay not a single other bill in this period.

There is a principal difference in paying a bill and making a refund... It could be their specific bank's requirement or some general rule - I do not know. We would need someone with detailed knowledge on how UK banks do stuff to give an exact answer. I just reposted what they have stated earlier.

[_DW_ 628]

If they are doing refunds via IBAN makes sense a bit, I have to go into my bank as the website and app don't allow it.  You can make transfers to UK account's easily just need the sort code and account number.

 

[HMA 7]

Yeah, that could be a reason. And I'm really not in a position to make hypothetical assumptions about their banking conditions. So I apologize for that. It is indeed quite funny how often we speculate in this forum about what might be the reason for what, poking around in the dark (especially with regard to delivery delays and communication policy). 😅

[SchattengestaIt 559]

I've seen this with another small company that a bigger investor demanded a physical action with a notification for any kind of unusual money transfer in order to prevent money loss or theft. It could very well be an internal policy with the same reasons since they can't risk any loss of money.

What I find most difficult here is that the order doesn't seem to be cancelled until the refund is done. The worst thing for Fxtec would be that the device gets delivered and has to be sent back since it wouldn't be needed anymore. That would be a huge loss of money that would be easy to prevent.
I still hope that you guys get your money back very soon without having to force it back.

[_DW_ 628]

@SchattengestaIt that is quite possible and we do know there is outside investment.

 

[HMA 7]

On 8/13/2020 at 2:13 PM, SchattengestaIt said:

What I find most difficult here is that the order doesn't seem to be cancelled until the refund is done. The worst thing for Fxtec would be that the device gets delivered and has to be sent back since it wouldn't be needed anymore. That would be a huge loss of money that would be easy to prevent.

In fact, this is another aspect that bothers me. After I cancelled my order, I received several mails saying that they can ship my device next week. It made me feel kind of stupid because I was such a patient customer all the time. Would I have received my phone months ago if I had requested the cancellation earlier?

I still see the possibility that they deliberately did not stop the delivery, in the assumption that I will change my mind once I receive it. This would not only result in the loss of money, but also in another customer having to wait even longer for the phone...

[Lucik 6]

You feel kind of stupid? No, i feel kind of stupid.

I made an order in September. And every month f(x)tec wrote that they would ship at the end of the month.
I asked for a refund in March. But they wrote that if I wait 1 month, I will get a phone. I agreed to their terms. But COVID-19 happened. Ok, I understand Christmas days, New Years, Chinese New Years, Covid-19. In early June, I once again reminded of the order and they confirmed that they would ship within a month. I gave them until the end of July.
In early July, I received a letter that the reserve was assigned. But so far I have not received the tracking number. Although last Monday they wrote that they would send it 100%:
"Today we shipped a few Russian orders. Based on where you are in the queue, you will receive your tracking details by the end of this week 100%."
Total: the phone is in stock for more than 3 weeks, they don't ship it. I no longer believe in f(x)tec, I demanded a refund and I will no longer cancel it.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Lucik

[Rob. S. 1,664]

Stupid? Ok, I agree that cancelling the order a week before shipment after waiting eleven months certainly qualifies 😉 

[Lucik 6]

19 minutes ago, Rob. S. said:

Stupid? Ok, I agree that cancelling the order a week before shipment after waiting eleven months certainly qualifies 😉 

They have promised to ship the order by the end of each week for 2 months now. Previously, they promised by the end of each month. And I don't know how many more excuses there would be.
But, this time, with the money back, they worked quickly. Thanks for that.
Maybe in the future, if they set up production and logistics, I will buy this phone.

[SchattengestaIt 559]

On 8/17/2020 at 5:09 PM, Rob. S. said:

Stupid? Ok, I agree that cancelling the order a week before shipment after waiting eleven months certainly qualifies 😉 

This is like saying it would be stupid to refund now since they will ship most of the devices until the end of the month. Previously they even said they would deliver ALL devices by the end of september.
This phrase would apply to every month so far. September, when they were supposed to start shipping, October, November, December (first Christmas was promised, then it was the New Year), January, February, ... - it paused over the CoVid19 phase (March to May) and then as it seemed continued as we were used to. I was lucky and got a used phone from somebody who wasn't actually using his device (ebay notifications, bought immediately) and I waited almost two months to get my refund.
The bad thing is, that it really is a great device. If used with LineageOS (in my view basically bugfree), you can easily achieve up to 300 keystrokes per second which really helps me with typing on the go. I usually don't even open my laptop at the night even if I write longer mails.

I haven't received further notifications about the progress anymore but I really don't understand how we got from "deliver all devices by Christmas" to "Oh, nine months passed... whooopsie!". And I wish they would be able to actually ramp up the production since there would definitely be people buying the device. I've had a couple of interested friends which I had to tell that ordering wouldn't make sense since they won't get their device anytime soon.

Let's hope that they survive and a potential Pro2 will be delivered in time.

[EskeRahn 5,471]

12 minutes ago, SchattengestaIt said:

you can easily achieve up to 300 keystrokes per second

I am utterly impressed 😇 ....But assume it is a typo.

(But I do agree that it is frustration how the production again and again get delayed)

[goodyes 1]

Im considering buying one. But seeing this I will do not

[SchattengestaIt 559]

3 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

I am utterly impressed 😇 ....But assume it is a typo.

Minute I meant... for a moment I actually thought I was a fast typer ._.

Edited August 19, 2020 by SchattengestaIt

[HMA 7]

On 8/18/2020 at 10:54 PM, goodyes said:

Im considering buying one. But seeing this I will do not

At this time I can only warn everyone to do business with this company.

After three months I still don't have my money back and only get stalling messages, if at all. For me it is clear that they do not want or can not refund.

[_DW_ 628]

1 hour ago, Helge Martin said:

At this time I can only warn everyone to do business with this company.

After three months I still don't have my money back and only get stalling messages, if at all. For me it is clear that they do not want or can not refund.

@Erik

[Slion 1,201]

On 8/18/2020 at 10:54 PM, goodyes said:

Im considering buying one. But seeing this I will do not

Don't let that stop you. If you want a keyboard phone, have deep enough pockets, enough patience and another spare smart phone then you should order a Pro1.

[SchattengestaIt 559]

As much as Fxtec will hate me for these words: just wait until they have actual devices in stock for 'immediate' delivery. You would get your device slightly faster by buying now but that isn't worth waiting 3-12 months for your device.

Also I do recommend setting up push notifications for ebay and maybe even google search. That is how I got my device four months ago (I never spent money faster than after that email).

[EskeRahn 5,471]

25 minutes ago, SchattengestaIt said:

just wait until they have actual devices in stock for 'immediate' delivery

There is a big IF in this. You are assuming that they are going to produce to stock. You could be right. But I wouldn't if it was me.

I personally would not at all be surprised if once all pre-orders are handled, they will pile enough orders, before they produce a new batch for those - plus a  few extras.
I don't think they will want to produce more than they feel quite certain they can sell (plus what they need for guarantee repairs & swaps)
If my guess here is right, I would expect that the more the order flow slows down, the less beyond the already ordered they will produce.
But I could be wrong - they could well be more willing to take risks than I am.

[SchattengestaIt 559]

Their original plan was to have some devices in stock. Of course they won't produce thousands of devices over their current orders but a few hundreds would be my expectation. There sure is a demand although it decreases the longer they wait (outdated/overpriced would be the arguments there).

On the other hand they will want to fulfill all current preorders (I don't call four months of waiting an order), so I'd at least wait until shipping time has reduced to about one month where you can actually expect to get a device at all.

This is my personal experience since I waited nine months for my device until I bought a used one and refunded. Maybe other people are more patient than I am.

[_DW_ 628]

4 hours ago, SchattengestaIt said:

There sure is a demand although it decreases the longer they wait (outdated/overpriced would be the arguments there).

Well especially since its direct competitor the Asto Slide is a better spec device at not much more cost to purchase in comparison to Pro1.  They could ofc lower the price to sort that though.