EskeRahn
-
Content Count
5,917 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
394
Posts posted by EskeRahn
-
-
@eskerahn
how do you feel about scrolling for example websites with the device, do you have to use the onscreen-keyboard for example while browsing and writing something to the address bar?
How do you feel the phone feels on your hands? Are the sides curved so that it would feel comfortable? Or are they like a slab that is very unergonomic to hold? Both closed and opened (holding landscape and portrait)
What about the notification LED? Do you feel it is visible from a far distance away? Is the LED big and customisable one? I especially love the LED on my Samsung S3. It is big and easily visible´from all angles and even far away. Hate the LG G5 for such a small notification LED that you can’t even see.
Is the phone experiencing any heating or extreme warming with the usage you have?
In FF (have not tested with other browsers) you can scroll with arrows or traditional touch. And YES the good old Tab and Shift-Tab is indeed supported - at the least in some apps and to some extent. I used it to jump through fields in setting up the details of my mail-accounts in my K9-mail.
Despite it (for my hands) is clearly a two handed phablet, it feels quite comfy to hold, As a slab, the 'edge' mentioned and the extra thickness give a good grip, But I'm not going to operate it as a phone with one hand.
The notification LEDs are very bright, I got no idea how the LED can be used
Surprisingly very little heating, even at the most intesive things i have done so far. But I\m not a gamer, so are not a heavy user.
-
Not to sound condescending – I really appreciate and admire all the amazing work that you do atm, but why is there (both here on the forum and in the live stream interview) such a huge topic/discussion about “optimizing apps for landscape” and “getting good keyboard support/navigation”? Why is this even a problem?
I ask this because:
1) I don’t know about you, but I use my regular phone like 90 % of the time in landscape. I cannot type in portrait mode anyways; feels too small to type on a portrait touch keyboard. And apart from only a few apps (can’t even remember one now) I have never felt that it wasn’t optimized well enough for landscape mode – even with on-screen keyboard. So someone enlighten me what all these apps are that need so much landscape optimization.
2) My latest physical keyboard phone was a Sony Xperia Pro Mk16i back in 2013. It rocked Android 4.0 I believe. I never had any issues with the keyboard implementation on that device. This is just a personal opinion, but as long as the Pro1 works as good as that old phone, I am happy; meaning pretty much only that A) when keyboard is slid out, the phone locks itself into landscape mode, B) when slid out, the on-screen keyboard gets disabled. Anything else is just a luxury imo. And it also had key-arrow navigation of the OS.
Point is, if it was possible to make a fluid experience back in 2011 with something as clunky as Android 4.0, it shouldn’t be that difficult in 2019, should it? Just get those two basic things (point A and B) to work properly at launch, and otherwise make Android 9 run smoothly (like any normal phone), and any special fancy stuff can be added on in updates.
@eskerahn: What phones are you gonna compare the typing experience to?
on 1) Well a lot of apps out there are done by lazy programmers/designers only thinking of Portrait, Some do landscape, but just widening things with a lot of 'white space', scaling or even stretching, not even changing the column-width of their texts, An example is the Danish national broadcast app "DR Radio", only supporting portrait (their DR TV does support landscape though) - see below. The app from the national railways as well as the largest Danish bank, has similar issues... with no alternatives.
So you have to seek out apps that works well, or rethink the design of the app if it is something you got control off
on 2) I got an SE Xperia (Neo) Pro from 2011 too. So this, the BB Priv, and the Samsung S8- with a click-on keyboard is my plan.
The below are unsharp shrunken images not taken with a real camera, just the S8-, but you can enjoy the backlight none the less :)
And YES I've put a flat screenprotector on it, not a perfect fit, I did not dare risk this hard to get to device...
[attachment file=IMG_20190516_181339_HDR~01.jpg]
[attachment file=IMG_20190516_181318_HDR~01.jpg]
-
The software isn’t in a hurry i guess as even when the device is out OTA updates can be offered, etc.
Exactly my thoughts! The worst issue being if there are severe bugs that can affect reviews from influential sites and initial buyers damaging the reputation in ways influencing the sales. But overall the software/experience is very close to stock android, so that means a lot of potential bugs have already been handled by others. ;)
-
Wow you so lucky to get to see one already :)! Are you at liberty to tell us more? How does it feel to type on?
I believe I am. It is an awesome device, hardware-wise, but the software still need some ironing out, but it is surprisingly bugfree. But the keyboard driver/app definitely need some work. I plan to compose some sort of mini-review over the next few days, when I find the time for it. also comparing it with some older devices.
-
If they could get a license agreement for an official dbrand skin it would solve two issues: it would counter the fatty fingers marks, and it would probably reduce/counter any wobble from the small camera bump.
I really hope for dbrand, since a traditional case might be difficult for this slider-form factor.
A back skin would be a nice alternative to a case. No matter the brand.
Preferably one with a little more grib than the smooth metal back.
Cleverly it is NOT a back rounding smoothly into the side though, it has an edge that improves the grip (got my hands on a pre-production unit)
I tried to make a sketch:
[attachment file=14910]
-
– Camera seems to stand out a little bit (see picture).
I do not know if this is the final design, but currently the 'protrusion' seems to be about 1/64 inch or 0.4mm
-
I agree it looks quite slow switching between landscape portrait
Remember this is still early, and software far from optimized.
BUT in android they got a delay on the autorotate, and only after this the delay it rotates. (Try any device with a decent app supporting landscape)
-
Sorry nothing at all against your poll. I am indeed glad you made it. I am just saying, that the 13 votes could be the same very eager person. But at least you can see why they confirmed a German layout.
Yeah makes sense. It just makes me reflect on the odd decisions of the past (like… 8 years ago or so) when phones with physical keyboards could only be found in USA;
My Xperia Pro Mk16i (which I loved so much) died, and I was looking at getting a newer keyboard phone. There were options from both LG, Samsung and Motorola (that I can remember). but for some odd reason, these phones were sold exclusively on the US-market. I still to this day cannot grasp why these phones were only sold to USA and not anywhere else. I doubt Europeans and Asians disliked physical keyboards any less than Americans….
I'm guessing here: If you already see the keyboard you want in the pictures, you might not bother to even open a thread on alternative layouts?
The German QWERTZ thread had been up for quite a while, and this might have wheeled in people with interest in the German keyboard to be active in the forum, ant from here they got to the poll thread...
But just guessing.
-
The interesting part starts at 37:15Sorry for being inaccurate… ;-p
Upps, didn’t saw that, was to greedy to jump to the video. Could have saved me 37 minutes.
Sorry and thank you for posting the timestamp.
Ha ha, just teasing. Actually added the line a few minutes after the original post, so you might well have seen the original :)
-
The interesting part starts at 37:15
Sorry for being inaccurate... ;-p
-
It is now available here
https://www.twit.tv/shows/all-about-android/episodes/420?autostart=false
One of the Co-founders, Adrian Li Mow Ching, is with all the way, but for the device jump
37 minutes37:15 in -
The driver is a good point. My hope would be that Sony would supply f(x) tec with the same driver that they give to google for the same hardware.
I don't think Sony make the driver for Google. But I assume they provide 'something' to let the manufacturer make their own driver.
My point is that there MIGHT be some fancy stuff in Googles driver that is proprietary, and competitors have to create their own variants.
-
.
What I still don’t understand is what makes some google camera app ports work and others not work? Are the developers doing some sort of phone specific/camera chip specific API calls?
.
As an example the Open Camera App on my Samsung S8- in all the situations I tested produced end results as good as what the accompanying Samsung camera app did. (and the Open Camera app got additional flexibility).
WaxBerry have confirmed earlier that Open Camera already works on the current preproduction units.
But let us try to straighten things out here in general terms. (Hopefully some more knowledgeable in the field can correct&supplement)
There are multiple things in play. Apart from all the hardware, there is a driver (software/firmware implementing the functions in the API). And finally a program with the user-interface.
The hardware might be 100% identical to what you find in other devices.
And we know we can use well known and tested programs like Open Camera as the UI / camera app against a standard API
But the driver is generally manufacturer proprietary software. So the same hardware with the same program on top does not give 100% identical images.
I have no doubt that the hardware providers to some extend help the manufacturers with what is needed for a driver, but there will always be manufacturer specific things. and I bet they are fine tuning the drivers between each iteration of software until release, and most likely also after receiving feedback from us once we get the units and use them in real live.
And to make things MORE complex, not all drivers implement ALL functionality in the API. If you download an app like "Camera2 API Probe" and run it, you should not at all be surprised if not all goes green. My S8- was a flagship and is produced in millions, and yet is not implementing everything. See attached output.
As I understand it the Open Camera requires SOME functionality to be there, and are able to use further functionalities if they are available.
To make things more muddy some manufacturers might NOT implement drivers with a standard API, but have a proprietary API working with there own camera app only.
Luckily (as I understand it) the Pro¹ has chosen the clean path of a standard API, so we in principle can choose between what camera app we want, that expects this standard Camera2 API.
[attachment file=14755]
-
Thanks EskeRahn. I wasn’t sure if “The Pro1 will ship with QWERTY…” meant only US QWERTY or other QWERTY layouts too, with other alternate symbols on the keys.
(I do not KNOW that is what is meant, but I ASSUME so - it is not super clear)
-
I haven’t been following all the other threads. Is US QWERTY the only one that will be offered at launch?
I don't think they have it quite clear if the German QWERTZ will be offered simultaneously or follows after.
The pre-order page (still?) says
When will you support other keyboard layouts (QWERTZ, AZERTY, Scandi etc)The Pro1 will ship with QWERTY keyboard layout, when there is sufficient demand we will create additional keyboard layouts.But we DO know that a German QWERTZ will be made (see this thread).
with
...we will try to deliver it same time with QWERTY. :) -
I’m quite astonished that no francophone seems to be interested…
Well until now only 25 people have answered the Poll, that was just launched about 24h ago. So hardly a representative proportion of the interested. See e.g. the disproportional large portion in the polls from the small Scandinavian countries.
-
Strictly we are talking different users segments for a physical keyboard.
[ul]Those that prefer a fixed portrait keyboard (BB Key½)
Those that prefer a portrait slider (Priv)
Those that prefer a landscape slider (Pro¹)
Those that prefer a fixed lansdscape keyboard (non-existing AFAIK)
Those that prefer a clamshell lansdscape keyboard (Cosmo)
Those that prefer a clamshell portrait keyboard (not seen for many years)[/ul]
But of course in lack of the other models most could/would let do with one from the first or second neighbouring segment as still better than just a slab without a keyboard...
As my personal preference is landscape slider, I (in lack of better) earlier used a Priv, and considered a Cosmo, but never a Key½
So as with so many other things, there is no absolute "best". Only a "best" for each persons usage pattern.
And ANY device is a matter of compromises due to physical and technical limitations. The Pro¹ is a bit on the large side for my taste, as I like one hand operable phones. But the large screen will for sure be something my old eyes will prefer over a phone-sized device... So even compromises here...
-
Please note, that a symbol not PRINTED on the keyboard does not mean that it is not possible to FUNCTIONALLY have it. So if only a minority would need ~ it could still be functionally on the N, even if not printed.
I think that adding special symbol PRINTS that only a minority would benefit from, would just make the keyboard look messy for the majority that do not need these symbols (or would prefer other symbols).
-
Here is a proposal for the Nordic/Scandinavian keyboard layout, based on the German QWERTZ layout (https://www.fxtec.com/forums/topic/design-the-qwertz-layout/page/12/#post-14233):
I really don't like the three characters printed that way, but unfortunately I do not have a better idea, as different colours would also look ugly (and most likely would add to the cost). Now if only the Danes did not swap the two, one could have been 'creative' and printed the Ö with a thin slash and dots. And similar the Ä/Æ could have been printed as an A with a thin E and dots.... I bet both Swedes and Norwegians could live with that... Like this quick mock-up
[attachment file=14623]
-
Moderator, could you please edit the link in my original post to the new one, but still keep this post to explain what has happened?
Done.
For the curious, the old poll was here -
Yeah, I am not neglecting that they have a lot to do. They obviously do. But on the other hand, two weeks on the forum, and also reading some elder forum posts, they havent been very responsive.
Because even if they arent crowd funding, for such a niche product as this, I believe it could be good to stay in regular contact. E.g. my pre-order decision is much based on potential shipping costs and also on what keyboard layouts they will offer in the end.
Anyway, I hope you are correct and that they will get more in touch when things have calmed down.
As doktor.oswaldo said, I too think they are more than busy with the hardware, and likely certifications of various types. And the whole project is at such a late state that only software is likely to change substantially. So any feedback for the hardware is too late to affect a Pro¹ and a bit early for any successors...
And on the software side it is my impression that they want to be as close to native Android as possible, so our wishes here are things that could be handled after release also, so not urgent for them to handle it now.
Do not get me wrong, I too am impatient and can't wait to get my dirty paws on the device. And I'm sure there will be a flood of feedback once the device is on the street,with suggestions of what could be done differently or additionally. But it is much more urgent to get the hardware out as planned, with stable software. Improvements of the software/firmware can be (relatively) easily handled at a later time.
-
It would be better with some priority. As I got several I could use with little difference in preference - note we are talking PRINT only.
(To get the keys returning what matches the users preferences should be the easy part)
My priority for PRINT would be with estimated percentages
[ul]25 Danish
23 Scandinavian, (multi-print or any of Swe/Nor)
20 US (non-shifted)
15 German-QWERTZ
12 US All four rows shifted
5 US A-Z shifted only[/ul]
-
Hey, don’t be ignorant, lol! It is NORDIC qwerty. :P There are other countries than Sweden, you know! Not sure about Island, but Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark all use the same qwerty-layout.
No, not trying to be mean, just a bit nitpicky. ;-)
Well Norway, Denmark and Sweden use ALMOST the same layout... (Norwegian as Swedish with different symbols Ä->Æ, Ö-> Ø, and Danish as Norwegian but with Æ/Ø swapped...). So for cheaper laptops we often see a common keyboard with three colours of letters on these three keys...
-
I saw the video but I still have a question about the control of the phone just with the keyboard.
I have the following situation now on my BBPriv:
I am opening chrome to browse via hotkey. Now I have to touch the adressbar and then start typing. Will there a hotkey to be able to type directly the page I want to access? How about changing tabs. I don’t want to touch the Tab-Field and then chose which Tab I want to open. Or will there be the possibility to open a new tab with just the hardware keyboard. I know that this is was very app-specific but the question is quite general for every other app as well. Starting Spotify via shortcut. Do I have to touch the field I want to open, or could I navigate INSIDE the app with just the keyboard?
Could we see how this is managed on the pro1?
I have the same thoughts. To what degree are android basically possible to navigate in with keys only? Sure there are apps like the "Keyboard browser" that are specifically designed for a keyboard, But how are android UI in general, under the hood? Are there say tab-stops on all controls like MS Windows?
I know it is possible to navigate Android with a USB mouse (see e.g.
), so it DOES have the concept of a cursor build in, so at the lowest bar, some way to turn on the cursor and arrow/navigation could be possible. Though that might well be too slow and inconvenient in real usage, so I guess that would be a rather academic 'solution', and perhaps thus not worth the work to implement.When the Pro¹ is released, I hope we will have an active branch of this forum hinting at apps that works particularly well with a real keyboard.
Small update for those only following the forums.
in General Discussion
Posted
@MortisAngelus
Oh i do not mean that every app HAVE to be in landscape, but if you primarily use it for typing, it would seem silly to change to close the keyboard, change to portrait, switch to the internet radio app, switch channel, and then open and turn into landscape to continue what you were doing.
But SURE if you take the phone from the pocket just to use one of these portrait only apps with touch only, it would not be an issue, that the program designers were lazy/incompetent.
But frankly only for very special apps I see good reasons to NOT offer both portrait and landscape - and that is primilly like TV-apps where you do not really need portrait. But sure there are rare stuff out there that naturally cries for portrait only, e.g. something emulating an old standard pocket calculator. as the visual emulation would be broken rearranging stuff in landscape.
on the a) you could turn the question around and say why not offer both options? I'm sure there are scenarios where one are more convenient than the other. But I bet that for the majority of websites, it is easier to navigate with touch. But if you are to read a long text, just use an arrow to move is quite conveinient.
on b) yes luckily they have not removed support for real keyboards in Android, but its clearly touch-oriented. Just as it is hard to operate Windows with keyboard only so is Android.