F(x)tec on Verizon?

[silversolver 849]

1 hour ago, Hook said:

Went to Verizon with Pro 1 in hand.  The techs were impressed and tried to get it on the network, but no go.  Had to go to AT&T, which worked fine.  (This is on Pay-As-You-Go for both).

It's possible that as more Verizon customers show up with this phone, if they do, they will certify it for their network, but not now.

What size SIM does it use? I see no reason why using a mule device to get the SIM active and then sliding the SIM into *ahem* something else couldn't work.

[david 929]

Just now, silversolver said:

What size SIM does it use? I see no reason why using a mule device to get the SIM active and then sliding the SIM into *ahem* something else couldn't work.

Yep.  Many people do that to use them in cellular routers.

[silversolver 849]

1 hour ago, Hook said:

Went to Verizon with Pro 1 in hand.  The techs were impressed and tried to get it on the network, but no go.  Had to go to AT&T, which worked fine.  (This is on Pay-As-You-Go for both).

It's possible that as more Verizon customers show up with this phone, if they do, they will certify it for their network, but not now.

So the next elephant in the room becomes how does it work on Always Terrible and Troubling? :O

[ksal95 227]

11 minutes ago, silversolver said:

So the next elephant in the room becomes how does it work on Always Terrible and Troubling? 😮

According to Hook on our discord, he's had no issues so far with it on the Always Terrible & Troubling network

Edit: What does trouble me is sequestris' post on T-Mobile not working too well so far on their end

Edited December 11, 2019 by ksal95
I put a gun to my head and forced myself to edit this post

[Hook 3,016]

1 hour ago, silversolver said:

So the next elephant in the room becomes how does it work on Always Terrible and Troubling? 😮

AT&T works great (Pay As You Go).  I used them for years and had no trouble.  Actually kind of happy to be back with them.

[elvissteinjr 359]

3 hours ago, silversolver said:

What size SIM does it use? I see no reason why using a mule device to get the SIM active and then sliding the SIM into *ahem* something else couldn't work.

I don't know what they're doing, but it sounds plausible to me that they might be storing your device's IMEI as part of the registration. They are stupid for only letting selected devices on the network, but I don't think they're that stupid to allow a simple switch to work like that.

[silversolver 849]

15 hours ago, elvissteinjr said:

I don't know what they're doing, but it sounds plausible to me that they might be storing your device's IMEI as part of the registration. They are stupid for only letting selected devices on the network, but I don't think they're that stupid to allow a simple switch to work like that.

They definitely ARE doing that, but I have SIM-switched before and can confirm the service follows the SIM. Whether that magically makes everything work or not with the Pro1 remains to be seen. At the latest, when I get mine. :)

[Craig 1,435]

CDMA doesn't get your subscriber info from your SIM card.  Only GSM & LTE use SIM that way.   So CDMA providers identify you by your IMEI or MEID also, especially for the 2G voice service - IF I understand correctly.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Craig

[JillieBo 16]

Yup Verizon definitely doesn’t work. I tried HARD. Talked to multiple different people. After research and talking to everyone the only ones that will work in the US that I know of are AT&T and T-Mobile. I used T-Mobile but found out I didn’t have service outside the  city...which I need so 🤷🏻‍♀️

[david 929]

17 minutes ago, JillieBo said:

Yup Verizon definitely doesn’t work. I tried HARD. Talked to multiple different people. After research and talking to everyone the only ones that will work in the US that I know of are AT&T and T-Mobile. I used T-Mobile but found out I didn’t have service outside the  city...which I need so 🤷🏻‍♀️

Did you try activating the sim in another device first (for Verizon)?

[Polaris 423]

21 hours ago, elvissteinjr said:

I don't know what they're doing, but it sounds plausible to me that they might be storing your device's IMEI as part of the registration. They are stupid for only letting selected devices on the network, but I don't think they're that stupid to allow a simple switch to work like that.

Yes, 100% Verizon is using the IMEI to determine if they'll activate a device on their network.  The best way around this is to use a mule phone, them SIM card transfer, as silversolver suggested.  Nowadays it'll need to be a VoLTE capable phone.  I too have done it before and it worked well.  However, it's not a guarantee so until someone here tries it and reports back, it'll be questionable.  If I had mine, I would test it as I have a spare mule sitting right here!

[Polaris 423]

3 hours ago, Craig said:

CDMA doesn't get your subscriber info from your SIM card.  Only GSM & LTE use SIM that way.   So CDMA providers identify you by your IMEI or MEID also, especially for the 2G voice service - IF I understand correctly.

Correct.  The SIM card holds very little subscriber data and is ONLY used for 4G LTE services.  All of the 2G and 3G authentication takes place using the built in IMEI/MEID.  Additionally, to activate a LTE phone, the IMEI is used to verify it's an "acceptable device" in Verizon's eyes.  They don't currently (and may never) consider the Pro1 "acceptable."

[silversolver 849]

7 minutes ago, Polaris said:

Yes, 100% Verizon is using the IMEI to determine if they'll activate a device on their network.  The best way around this is to use a mule phone, them SIM card transfer, as silversolver suggested.  Nowadays it'll need to be a VoLTE capable phone.  I too have done it before and it worked well.  However, it's not a guarantee so until someone here tries it and reports back, it'll be questionable.  If I had mine, I would test it as I have a spare mule sitting right here!

Bet it's a loo, er, Priv. :P

[elvissteinjr 359]

39 minutes ago, Polaris said:

Yes, 100% Verizon is using the IMEI to determine if they'll activate a device on their network.  The best way around this is to use a mule phone, them SIM card transfer, as silversolver suggested.  Nowadays it'll need to be a VoLTE capable phone.  I too have done it before and it worked well.  However, it's not a guarantee so until someone here tries it and reports back, it'll be questionable. 

I suppose it usually works, but I don't get what you're trying to tell me. What I was hinting at is that Verizon could actively check the IMEI when using activated SIM cards as to make sure it's being used in the right device. They don't seem to actually do that, which is nice in a way, but kind of defeats the purpose of device activation as they want it.

[Polaris 423]

2 minutes ago, elvissteinjr said:

I suppose it usually works, but I don't get what you're trying to tell me. What I was hinting at is that Verizon could actively check the IMEI when using activated SIM cards as to make sure it's being used in the right device. They don't seem to actually do that, which is nice in a way, but kind of defeats the purpose of device activation as they want it.

I was just commenting that they use the IMEI (separate from the SIM info) for 2G and 3G service, and also to activate a device.  You are correct that they could use the Pro1's IMEI (which in their eyes is a non-compatible, non-acceptable device at this time) to block service after the SIM is swapped.  Thankfully, AFAIK, they haven't been doing this.  In the past, I have used the mule procedure to activate different devices that weren't allowed to be activated directly.  It has always worked, but those were the days before the new VoLTE flags and provisioning issues.  This is why I suggest making sure the mule is a VoLTE compatible phone (which it would probably have to be anyway as, I have been told, they have eliminated all of the non-VoLTE IMEIs from their "okay to activate" database).  Anyway, again, I agree with you that they could block the device after one swaps in an activated SIM, but they (hopefully still) don't.  Honestly, I think it the activation device blocking just reduces their client base; doesn't make much sense to me.

[puppymang 6]

what is the process for doing a mule activation? i have a moto z3. would it be possible to use this device to activate the pro1 with verizon?

[Craig 1,435]

2 minutes ago, puppymang said:

what is the process for doing a mule activation? i have a moto z3. would it be possible to use this device to activate the pro1 with verizon?

https://www.verizonwireless.com/od/prepaid/bring-your-own-device/#/checkDevice

 

[Hook 3,016]

I'm getting confused by this "Mule Device" talk, basically because I don't know that term.  Let me give a little more detail of my experience. The first thing I did when I got the Pro 1 was go to the page Craig posted above.  That slammed the door right down, saying the phone associated with that IMEI could not be activated on their network. So I went into the Verizon store.  I had a small crows of Verizon techs who were really impressed by the Pro 1 (I told them it was the Droid 5 😁).  They *really* wanted to get it working on Verizon.  They created a SIM for it but no matter what they did, it would not make calls or send texts-- which sounds to me like the CDMA piece.  It might have actually had LTE, I'm not sure.  They finally had to give up.  I suspect CDMA is the problem here.

I nor they tried to take the sim from my Moto G6 and put it in there.  I don't think it would make a difference.  I know that the network detects it when a SIM is put in another phone because as soon as I've switched a phone on Verizon, the account page shows the new phone even if it doesn't have a picture.  And I think that even with my Verizon SIM in, the CDMA would close it down for calls and text.

 

[Polaris 423]

7 minutes ago, Hook said:

I'm getting confused by this "Mule Device" talk, basically because I don't know that term.  Let me give a little more detail of my experience. The first thing I did when I got the Pro 1 was go to the page Craig posted above.  That slammed the door right down, saying the phone associated with that IMEI could not be activated on their network. So I went into the Verizon store.  I had a small crows of Verizon techs who were really impressed by the Pro 1 (I told them it was the Droid 5 😁).  They *really* wanted to get it working on Verizon.  They created a SIM for it but no matter what they did, it would not make calls or send texts-- which sounds to me like the CDMA piece.  It might have actually had LTE, I'm not sure.  They finally had to give up.  I suspect CDMA is the problem here.

I nor they tried to take the sim from my Moto G6 and put it in there.  I don't think it would make a difference.  I know that the network detects it when a SIM is put in another phone because as soon as I've switched a phone on Verizon, the account page shows the new phone even if it doesn't have a picture.  And I think that even with my Verizon SIM in, the CDMA would close it down for calls and text.

 

What this refers to is using a phone with an IMEI that Verizon will activate (as though you plan on using it and not the Pro1), this is the mule.  You can confirm they will activate the mule by using the link Craig posted.  If the mule phone's IMEI isn't accepted at this link, that phone can't be used as a mule.  Once you have this mule phone (and a SIM card for it), you just activate it as normal with Verizon.  Make sure all the services are working (voice, text, data), then swap the SIM card into the Pro1.  It's that simple.  However, the mule will be dead (unless you can change the IMEI, or use it for non-Verizon activities) as that phone's IMEI will be stored as being associated with the SIM card that's in the Pro1.

[Hook 3,016]

So I took my Verizon SIM (which is still active) from my Moto G6 and put it in the Pro 1.  Same thing.  The Pro 1 recognizes the SIM, I get APNs but no matter what I choose, it won't call or text. Put the SIM back in the G6, everything is fine.

I'm fine with AT&T, so I think I'm just going to carry on.

[david 929]

2 minutes ago, Hook said:

So I took my Verizon SIM (which is still active) from my Moto G6 and put it in the Pro 1.  Same thing.  The Pro 1 recognizes the SIM, I get APNs but no matter what I choose, it won't call or text. Put the SIM back in the G6, everything is fine.

I'm fine with AT&T, so I think I'm just going to carry on.

Do you have VoLTE on the G6?  If not, it might be grandfathered in, but the SIM won't work in a VoLTE capable phone?  In other words, maybe the mule needs to be a VoLTE capable phone now?

And are the APNs identical to what you get on the G6?

Edited December 12, 2019 by david

[Polaris 423]

1 hour ago, david said:

Do you have VoLTE on the G6?  If not, it might be grandfathered in, but the SIM won't work in a VoLTE capable phone?  In other words, maybe the mule needs to be a VoLTE capable phone now?

Right, the G6 wasn't a  VoLTE phone at first.  The later ones were, but didn't default to it, and the accounts were provisioned without the VoLTE feature.  This will be problematic.  Today, the mule WILL need to be a VoLTE phone and it will need to be active.  I would also be interested to see the results of what happens when his IMEI is entered into the Verizon device checker (link above).

Many phones that once were once able to be activated, aren't today, but are currently active.  Sadly, I know this first hand as I have a few of them.  All active today, all "passed" the Verizon's device checker previously, but today come up as "not compatible" if I punch their IMEIs into the validator.  At times, I have been on the phone with Verizon telling their reps that the phone model is actually able to be activated, and as proof I'm talking on one now!  The only response is "if the computer says it's not able to use used, then it's not able to be used, period."

As such the mule should be a new activation, and not a currently working SIM card from a previous activation.  Also, FYI, you will be able to port your number if everything works out.  This is why I didn't (above) suggest just swapping an active SIM card.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Polaris

[JoseJX 3]

I'm on a Verizon MVNO. I tried just moving my already activated SIM from my Z2 Play to the Pro1. I was able to get data working by copying the APN settings from my Z2 Play, but I haven't been able to get calls or texts to work. I know my MVNO (Total Wireless) should support VoLTE, but I'm not sure if it's enabled on my account. I'm looking into it now.

Edit:

I tried turning on VoLTE through the *#*#4636#*#* Menu, but it rejects calls that way. It appears that I need to get a new SIM and re-activate the old phone because the old SIM I'm using doesn't support VoLTE. I'm going to try buying a new SIM this weekend and activating that on my Z2 Play. Once I have VoLTE working, I'll try transferring it into the Pro1 again and let you know how it goes.

Edited December 14, 2019 by JoseJX

[sdx 45]

With the risk of heading slightly in an off-topic direction.. So I'm european and grew up with GSM since the early 90's. Here, your SIM card would work in any phone, at all times, unless the phone you inserted the SIM card in was carrier locked. Hence my honest question, out of sheer curiosity:

Why do you accept a carrier to require device activation, that then prevents you from just swapping your SIM into another device? How can that be acceptable? Why would you even consider paying even one cent to such a carrier? Is it because it's your one and only option or what? If yes, how come no-one competes with Verizon in those areas? No market demand? FYI, I think Verizon is like the ONLY carrier WORLD-WIDE that does this. And I'm amazed that they still seem to get away with it without getting boycotted by their (hopefully potential) user base.

 

On a side-note, during one of my visits in the US, I got myself an AT&T pre-paid SIM card. To my complete and utter surprise I noticed that they actually did content inspection on the IP/web traffic! And what was also horrendous was that you needed to register (and perhaps even present photo ID) in order for them to stop that?! WTF guys? Land of the free? 😛

And on a side note, I still haven't received my Pro1. Chop chop, Fxtec!

[Polaris 423]

On 12/12/2019 at 6:03 PM, JoseJX said:

I'm on a Verizon MVNO. ....

It appears that I need to get a new SIM and re-activate the old phone because the old SIM I'm using doesn't support VoLTE. I'm going to try buying a new SIM this weekend and activating that on my Z2 Play. Once I have VoLTE working, I'll try transferring it into the Pro1 again and let you know how it goes.

Excellent.  A good plan, and thanks in advance for keeping us updated.

Edit: Oh, also, I should mention that you will want to, not only activate the new SIM in the Z2 Play, but you will want to activate VoLTE on the mule device as well, and make certain it's working BEFORE transferring the SIM card.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Polaris
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