What OS do you choose, and when?

[illie-vanilli 58]

Hi all,

Since the Pro1 is going to support both 'regular' Android and also Sailfish or Lineage, I was wondering when someone would choose either OS, and why.

I've read a little already about Sailfish and how it's an independent OS which stands clear from the large companies, so you can ensure your data to be safe. But, I would still want to use some of the mainstream apps like WhatsApp etc. , which aren't independent. What would this mean in regards to choosing for instance Sailfish? Would one of those independent OS have any use if you then choose to install those apps?

What would be a motivation to choose otherwise? What would you recommend? 

I've always assumed to be dependent of for instance Google to be able to use a phone in the way I want, but I'm also kind of annoyed how those companies force you to share data. 
I'm really curious how you all choose this and why 🙂 

Thanks!

[Raksura 270]

28 minutes ago, illie-vanilli said:

I would still want to use some of the mainstream apps like WhatsApp etc.

This is not actually possible with Sailfish OS on the Pro1, as I am guessing WhatsApp only provides binaries for iOS and Android. The Sailfish OS that is being talked about for the Pro1 is a community port, which does not include support for Android applications. I believe Lineage OS is something of a fork of Android with Google services-based applications removed. It should still be compatible with most Android applications, unless they specifically require an untouched Android (I've heard that some banking applications do that).

The point of running Sailfish for me is that this is a Linux-based OS, allowing me to port a software manager (Portage), which would allow for most of another Linux distribution's packages to be run natively on the OS. I just can't stand the mentality that seem to be prevalent with phone apps (ads businesses, amputated applications that require payment for full functionalities) and would much rather simply run a normal Linux install on my phone.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Raksura

[illie-vanilli 58]

24 minutes ago, Raksura said:

The point of running Sailfish for me is that this is a Linux-based OS, allowing me to port a software manager (Portage), which would allow for most of another Linux distribution's packages to be run natively on the OS. I just can't stand the mentality that seem to be prevalent with phone apps (ads businesses, amputated applications that require payment for full functionalities) and would much rather simply run a normal Linux install on my phone.

Does this also mean for you that you don't use any/all mainstream apps that the 'general public' uses, i.e. WhatsApp, any Social Media platform (no priority for me either tbh), google maps/translate/chrome etc. ?
How's your experience using alternative apps to these? Or do you mainly use a smartphone to not communicate with others but use it more as a pocket-version of a laptop/PC?

[Raksura 270]

I have a Blackberry Q10, which runs Blackberry OS 10 (which is now abandoned).

I have no replacement for WhatsApp, and it has indeed been a problem when I was still a student as the class exchanged important information on it. I resorted to installing an x86 version of Android on a VM on my computer, and it did the job. Having it on my phone would definitely have been better. I don't know any other mainstream app. I really wish they would update the MMS protocol so that WhatsApp became obsolete.

BB OS 10 has a very nice messaging hub, so the email & phone functionalities work very well. I'd say the worse thing it does is turning anything that looks like a phone number into a clickable link that will call without prompting for confirmation (who thought this was even remotely close to being a good idea?).

The reason I'm buying a new phone is actually because of the software being out of date, not because I really want new apps or the hardware being obsolete (although being able to display more than 80 characters in a reasonable font size on the terminal emulator is going to be a very appreciated improvement with the Pro1). Indeed, the web browser fails to display a lot of pages (most importantly, I cannot reliably use a website that I need to organize groups, which leads me to not being able to see if people canceled, post new info on the go, or reply to messages). The GPS navigation application is nice, you just have to make sure you actually know the address (and not just the name) of the place you want to go to. Here also, the lack of updates is crippling (I keep missing an exit on the highway because it has been recently merged with another).

All the social platforms I currently use have web-based versions, which let me use them when I am at home, so I don't really need Android.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Raksura

[Benni 184]

As the battery in my Moto Z recently died completely, I'm back to using my Blackberry DevAlphaC (developer version of the Q10) and I mostly miss Whatsapp.
I'm however still amazed of just how good the UI and the messaging hub is in comparison to Android.

[__fastcall 97]

Just to add, with Magisk you can make Android behave as normally installed, and therefore can run banking apps as usual. I would rather chose Sailfish (Had both phones after N900, N9), the OS itself is really nice. But I need Android support and Sailfish was always a bit buggy for me. Therefore I will use Lineage, Magisk and a very very thin GApps layer to make most of the apps run. I try to ensure my privacy on this one.

How annoying this can be to work outside of the cloud in regards of backups and time spending is experienced fairly quickly. But this time I'll mod my Android till it breaks 😛

[SteffenWi 139]

Might someone explain a bit more in depth what the deal with SailfishOS and not running Android application on the Pro 1 is? And what specifically would prevent a random user enabling said support? As far as I know SailfishOS is open-source and on here https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Android_Compatibility it just says that Android applications are compatible if Dalvik is integrated into the Sailfish build one uses.

 

So where is this "SailfishOS on Fx Pro1 does not support Android apps" coming from/why is that a thing?

[_DW_ 628]

8 minutes ago, SteffenWi said:

Might someone explain a bit more in depth what the deal with SailfishOS and not running Android application on the Pro 1 is? And what specifically would prevent a random user enabling said support? As far as I know SailfishOS is open-source and on here https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Android_Compatibility it just says that Android applications are compatible if Dalvik is integrated into the Sailfish build one uses.

 

So where is this "SailfishOS on Fx Pro1 does not support Android apps" coming from/why is that a thing?

Android app support is available in the commercial version that Jolla sells for certain devices.

[Craig 1,435]

If you want to see the kind of apps available for sfos, check out openrepos.net.

I believe it has been reported that there was a way to use a xperia license to enable Android Dalvik on pro1 with some minor hack on pro1 to identify itself as sony or something.  But that's obviously not officially supported by Jolla.

At one point in a sfos update q&a, it was stated that it should be possible to get anbox working on community port, but dunno if that has happened...

Edited November 9, 2019 by Craig

[okayphoneme 28]

I've been interested in Sailfish since it first launched. I love innovative OS/UI design, and tend to seek out non-mainstream, power-user orientated options when it comes to software. Sailfish seems to tick a lot of boxes for me... BUT I'm hearing that the native browser is outdated and the lack of Android app support mentioned above doesn't bode well. I don't want to be stuck in the same situation as now with good but rapidly ageing software / abandonware. So LineageOS (preferably without Google services) seems like a reasonable middle ground, even though I detest Googleware. Assuming the Pro1 ever comes back into my price range.

[glumreaper 144]

I wonder what level of support will be available from FXtec for these sorts of things? For example will an original Android image be available so that if we try Sailfish or Lineage and don't get on, we can restore to the factory OS?

[EskeRahn 5,471]

Just now, glumreaper said:

I wonder what level of support will be available from FXtec for these sorts of things? For example will an original Android image be available so that if we try Sailfish or Lineage and don't get on, we can restore to the factory OS?

Good point. I find it highly likely that they will do that.

[Doktor Oswaldo 906]

@glumreaper
Chen posted this on TMO:

Quote

I can confirm for bootloader, instead of "unlockable", it's "unlocked" with factory state, so there is no need to manually unlock it. In theory you don't even need to boot into Android, just press vol - and power key to get to bootloader and do whatever you like.

I am working with team to upload restore firmware and tutorial for getting into bootloader etc...

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by Doktor Oswaldo

[_DW_ 628]

2 minutes ago, Doktor Oswaldo said:

Chen posted this on TMO:

 

Think we may need to remind him 🙂

[Doktor Oswaldo 906]

Just now, _DW_ said:

Think we may need to remind him 🙂

Nay, he posted that quite recently and should focus on my phone instead 😄

[_DW_ 628]

Just now, Doktor Oswaldo said:

Nay, he posted that quite recently and should focus on my phone instead 😄

Well I think that part is essentially done they just need to ship them 😄

[Benni 184]

2 hours ago, Doktor Oswaldo said:

@glumreaper
Chen posted this on TMO:

 

 Does that mean no support for Android pay, as it will only pass basic integrity of the SafetyNet check?

Edited November 7, 2019 by kontakt

[glumreaper 144]

Nice, thanks for that!

[cboehm91 14]

Maybe I'm a n00b, but I think I will just stick with the stock Android. I use too many android based apps that I would be sad to lose compatibility with. 

[_DW_ 628]

Just now, cboehm91 said:

Maybe I'm a n00b, but I think I will just stick with the stock Android. I use too many android based apps that I would be sad to lose compatibility with. 

You should only change if you have  a real reason to. 

A lot of people is distrust of google spying on them others its a specific feature or the OS just does something better.

[enPfzr4v 239]

1 hour ago, _DW_ said:

A lot of people is distrust of google spying on them others its a specific feature or the OS just does something better.

There is at least one version of Android that remove all the Google stuff: LineageOS.

[david 929]

4 hours ago, abielins said:

There is at least one version of Android that remove all the Google stuff: LineageOS.

I still use Cyanogenmod, and it didn't remove any google pieces.  Is this something they started with the first LineageOS versions or something more recent?  And do they provide options for keeping the Google pieces?  Which pieces are removed, by the way?  Not having the Play Store would be a bit inconvenient, if someone did want it.

Edited November 8, 2019 by david

[david 929]

6 hours ago, cboehm91 said:

Maybe I'm a n00b, but I think I will just stick with the stock Android. I use too many android based apps that I would be sad to lose compatibility with. 

I've never had any issues with Cyanogenmod on my Relay 4G.  LineageOS might have changed a bit since their Cyanogenmod days, but if not, then you should be able to run everything there that you could on regular Android.

The only problems I had when I went to Cyanogenmod were:

1)  The camera quality went way down.

2)  The GPS quality went way down.

The drivers for those two things were proprietary, from Samsung, and whatever they replaced them with were not very good.  I'm hoping that won't be the case with the Pro1, since fxtec seems to be very good about opening things up for 3rd party OSes.

But I'm like you.  I don't see any reason to move away from stock Android, until there is a new version of stock Android available that isn't made available on the Pro1.  And even there, it would take some feature in the OS or some app-compatibility issue (app needs the newer version of Android, hence LineageOS is needed) for me to go through the work of switching.

[_DW_ 628]

55 minutes ago, david said:

1)  The camera quality went way down.

2)  The GPS quality went way down.

 

That's to be expected a lot of software processing is done on the output of the devices.

[david 929]

12 minutes ago, _DW_ said:

That's to be expected a lot of software processing is done on the output of the devices.

I believe this pre-dated that type of processing.  I know current camera apps do a lot of that after they get the raw data from the sensors.  Back then, I think it was mainly in how the drivers talked to the hardware.  

Hopefully, the google camera app ports will cover this issue for the Pro1 on LineageOS *if* the fxtec camera app doesn't work there for some reason. I don't see their camera app not working there though, unless they feel there is more value in keeping it to themselves.  To be honest, I've always assumed the google camera app ports would work better anyway, since they have spent a LOT of money on photo processing.