On the pre-production status

[kashif 350]

Realistically i dont think most of remaining pre orders will be shipped before xmas, unless FX does something extraordinary,

Dont know why we are circling around batches where no one really know which batch we are in.

It would be much better if we were just been given a que number and the updates would rather be where upto the que is shipping this week or next.

[EskeRahn 5,460]

1 hour ago, Zamasu said:

You can see the times people posted about getting those mails yourself. If you're saying that people are wrong in those posts or something, then we shouldn't trust anything posted on these forums.

Nope, I'm saying "I read that as "the second batch", as that batch is different from the first batch." Nothing about a third batch in there.

Well please try to be at the least a bit real...

When they (finally) bother to give detailed info then please bother to READ what they write, and the WHOLE text, before making your own fake conclusions....

We know these three batches are in play....

• The first small one, that is delivered for NON-US, and returned for the US-part,
• A batch where they wrote "and so we have reproduced this batch from scratch"
• A batch was sent out Wednesday, "Another batch of devices has left the factory on Wednesday"

So we KNOW there are three (Theoretically -but unlikely- there could be even more)

 

On the "You can see the times people posted about getting those mails yourself", Where? If you mean in this we did NOT post simultaneously but over some time, so we have no idea when each of us exactly got that mail. (all I know is that mine was stamped 2019-11-15 13:24 CEST)

I'm not saying whether you are right or wrong on the mail speed, but I'm saying your claim is not based on known facts. What is usually called GUESSING - and that could be either right or wrong, but please don't state guesses as facts....

[VaZso 1,998]

8 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

We know these three batches are in play....

• The first small one, that is delivered for NON-US, and returned for the US-part,
• A batch where they wrote "and so we have reproduced this batch from scratch"
• A batch was sent out Wednesday, "Another batch of devices has left the factory on Wednesday"

So we KNOW there are three (Theoretically -but unlikely- there could be even more)

I think there are two types of batches - production batches and shipping batches.

We (as customers) are mainly interested in shipping batches because those are what we are waiting for.
Also, initially they said smaller quantities will arrive, then it seems they have decided to wait for more production batches to complete and send them together with higher quantity inside. (Maybe other option would be too expensive and/or more complicated.)

As far as I understand well, they have found light leaking problems in one/more production batches so they are started to hold back them and find a solution.
...but they sent other devices on Wednesday, which is the second time of production shipments.

So, when we are speaking about second batch, we mean second shipping batch - I think that is correct from customers view as this contains the products we may receive.

[Zamasu 258]

10 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

Well please try to be at the least a bit real...

When they (finally) bother to give detailed info then please bother to READ what they write, and the WHOLE text, before making your own fake conclusions....

I am 100% real, I do not like being called a unreal, or wrong, when I was right.

12 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

We know these three batches are in play....

• The first small one, that is delivered for NON-US, and returned for the US-part,
• A batch where they wrote "and so we have reproduced this batch from scratch"
• A batch was sent out Wednesday, "Another batch of devices has left the factory on Wednesday"

So we KNOW there are three (Theoretically -but unlikely- there could be even more)

Nothing says the second and third bullet point are a different or the same batch. I only said I read that sentence as them being the same batch, which is a valid way to read it, and I'm not saying they're definitely the same batch.

13 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

Where? If you mean in this we did NOT post simultaneously but over some time, so we have no idea when each of us exactly got that mail.

Yes there, where everybody said they got the stock assigned email on the 4th.

14 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

(all I know is that mine was stamped 2019-11-15 13:24 CEST)

Not what you said in the post, but okay. You're referring to when you got the tracking number, not the stock assigned email. I haven't mentioned the tracking number emails in this conversation, this was about the stock assigned emails.

17 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

but please don't state guesses as facts....

Heh. I think some of the advice you give could apply very well to you. This is what I have previously already said was the worst part of this thread, people just posting factually wrong things as fact.

[Tim6263 134]

10 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

 

So we KNOW there are three 

You may be right about three batches ... but I'm not so sure about knowing? My reading of "reproduced this batch from scratch." is that these units were a production batch; found in QA checks PRIOR to shipping.  They might have shipped as part of: "Another batch of devices has left the factory on Wednesday "; they might still be in China?  We don't know...

All we do KNOW is a "batch ... left the factory on Wednesday "; no way to be sure: how many; where they are; who they're for; how long transport will take; when any more might follow...  All this is, as it always has been, a guessing game of wait-&-see.

[A Dude 99]

What confuses me is the following:

We know that the first batch was rather small. Then this was split up to EU and US. The US-part bounced at customs and now they write:

Quote

A large batch of devices have been sent back to our warehouse in Hong Kong by US customs due to strict import regulations,

Where is this large batch coming from? That was supposed to be a part of an already small batch. Looks to me like an attept to excuse further delays and make production look bigger as it actually is right now.

I understand this as follows: First (small / 120pcs) batch was sent to HK, split to EU (where received) and US (where bounced).

Quote

light leak issue, discovered in another batch of devices before shipping

This could mean "before shipping from production to HK" or "before shipping from HK to customers" (I guess the former).

Second batch had some light leak and had to be scrapped ("so we have reproduced" - no word about "has left production facility").

Third batch (of unknown size) was sent on Wednesday from production to HK.

Let's hope it actually is this way around (it was the second batch with the light leak, as another one was shipped)! So either they enhanced QA and then they could ship a batch on Wed. (which would make the light leak batch batch no. 2), or they shipped a batch and then noticed a light leak on another batch (which would make the shipped batch batch no. 2 and make it have a potential light leak issue, because the leak was discovered after shipping of that batch "on another batch").

Quote

We're working with the factory on how quickly they can get the remaining pre-order devices assembled and ready

So we know for sure that not all pre-orders are produced, yet (i.e. assembly has not even started on at least some of them).

This leaves us at roughly one week to produce and assemble all remaining pre-orders to be able to get them at customer's door steps before Christmas.

Not impossible, but unlikely IMHO. I whish them (and us ;)) all the best! 🙂

[EskeRahn 5,460]

24 minutes ago, Zamasu said:

Not what you said in the post, but okay. You're referring to when you got the tracking number, not the stock assigned email. I haven't mentioned the tracking number emails in this conversation, this was about the stock assigned emails.

Hey you got one thing right, congratulations... Yes I took the stamp from the wrong mail, sorry. The assignment mail I received was stamped 2019-11-04 11:51 CEST

[Zamasu 258]

12 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

Hey you got one thing right

More than 1, but okay.

[glumreaper 144]

I'm still lurking these forums because I'm genuinely interested in the Pro1 and I do want it to succeed. But seeing the same game playing out of the vague words of the last official communications being picked apart, and guesses being made and re-made... I can't tell you how much better I feel having cancelled. Seriously, I remember the wonderings of the last few months and I'm very relieved to no longer feel like that. I can be 100% certain about whether or not I'll be getting a Pro1 this year, and that feels strangely ok.

[EskeRahn 5,460]

36 minutes ago, Tim6263 said:

You may be right about three batches ... but I'm not so sure about knowing? My reading of "reproduced this batch from scratch." is that these units were a production batch; found in QA checks PRIOR to shipping.  They might have shipped as part of: "Another batch of devices has left the factory on Wednesday "; they might still be in China?  We don't know...

All we do KNOW is a "batch ... left the factory on Wednesday "; no way to be sure: how many; where they are; who they're for; how long transport will take; when any more might follow...  All this is, as it always has been, a guessing game of wait-&-see.

Indeed we sure would like to know MORE than we know. And yes, just sent from factory, so will take some time before they reach the consumers.

And yes I might have assumed too much from the word "Another", assuming it was referring to the lines above. It COULD also be interpreted as "another" compared to the first batch. Though I'm (unfortunately obviously) not a native English speaker, it would seem a bit odd in the context.

[A Dude 99]

@glumreaper  even though a lot of us wonder and have fun picking all words apart, I guess only a small group is actually un-relaxed about this situation. Sure, I am curious how this will all play out and whether I'll get my Pro1 before Christmas, but nevertheless am I absolutely relaxed about the whole matter, as this was not intended to be a Christmas gift of any form to anyone.

(Truth be told, on ordering I had expected to be in possession of mine since weeks at this point ;))

So I for one actually enjoy the feeling, that there "might be something coming to play with" sooner or later.

[Tim6263 134]

6 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

...I'm (unfortunately obviously) not a native English speaker...

😉 In that I think you are likely in the majority on here!  But I think you are probably in good company with many at F(x) too, so I think we all have to make allowances for odd phraseology, language construction, spelling, etc...!

[EskeRahn 5,460]

27 minutes ago, A Dude said:

Quote

We're working with the factory on how quickly they can get the remaining pre-order devices assembled and ready

So we know for sure that not all pre-orders are produced, yet (i.e. assembly has not even started on at least some of them).

This leaves us at roughly one week to produce and assemble all remaining pre-orders to be able to get them at customer's door steps before Christmas.

Not impossible, but unlikely IMHO. I whish them (and us ;)) all the best! 🙂

Yeah, does seem like they need a Christmas miracle. 😇 But on your "Not even started" I see no base for that in the quoted, strictly the quote could go for anywhere from 0% to 99% finished, we would be guessing. To me the quote sounds more as they are trying to get them to increase production speed, that would be allocate more people and machines - but that is ALSO just a guess.

[A Dude 99]

45 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

But on your "Not even started" I see no base for that in the quoted, strictly the quote could go for anywhere from 0% to 99% finished, we would be guessing.

I guess, we can agree that is is very likely, that hundreds of pre-orders are open for production.

"how quickly they can get the remaining pre-order devices assembled" means either, they did not yet start on those, or that they already started an ALL still open pre-order assemblings in parallel (what would be very unusual from a production point-of-view).

So "there are pre-orders where assembly has not yet started" is a very reasonable assumption to make, I would argue. 🙂

Edit: To clarify: If you have to produce more than 10,000 phones and only shipped <200 to customers, I would not assume, that ASSEMBLY has started on all 9800+ remaining ones (production of some parts---maybe, assembly? no way!).

Edited November 30, 2019 by A Dude

[EskeRahn 5,460]

1 minute ago, A Dude said:

I guess, we can agree that is is very likely, that hundreds of pre-orders are open for production.

"how quickly they can get the remaining pre-order devices assembled" means either, they did not yet start on those, or that they already started an ALL still open pre-order assemblings in parallel (what would be very unusual from a production point-of-view).

So "there are pre-orders where assembly has not yet started" is a very reasonable assumption to make, I would argue. 🙂

We are in the guessing game, but most likely different steps have different number of lines involved.

In principle one machine could do one step very fast on all in queue (and then even work on an entireey different device for a while), and then a lot of people and/or machines could do the next step side by side. I very much doubt it is the same person that follow one device from beginning to end. And I also doubt that one person do the same step on all the devices.

All the parts for all the devices could be ready at a bottle neck point, demanding a lot of man or machine time. But we have no idea if this bottle neck is in the beginning or close to the end of the whole process.

[silversolver 849]

22 minutes ago, Tim6263 said:

😉 In that I think you are likely in the majority on here!  But I think you are probably in good company with many at F(x) too, so I think we all have to make allowances for odd phraseology, language construction, spelling, etc...!

The sad thing about that is that most people in this forum write much better than most of my colleagues in the US, an English-speaking country. It seems that in at least some places where it is not the native language, people take the time to learn it with some accuracy, rather than just repeat whatever sludge they heard from Uncle Whacko.....

[silversolver 849]

20 minutes ago, A Dude said:

I guess, we can agree that is is very likely, that hundreds of pre-orders are open for production.

"how quickly they can get the remaining pre-order devices assembled" means either, they did not yet start on those, or that they already started an ALL still open pre-order assemblings in parallel (what would be very unusual from a production point-of-view).

So "there are pre-orders where assembly has not yet started" is a very reasonable assumption to make, I would argue. 🙂

Do not overlook the fact that units which failed QA will likely be corrected so the effort and money invested in them is not wasted, and these represent a possible pool from which to draw devices, if they're not immediately being sent back for correction upon being found faulty.

[A Dude 99]

3 minutes ago, silversolver said:

Do not overlook the fact that units which failed QA will likely be corrected so the effort and money invested in them is not wasted, and these represent a possible pool from which to draw devices, if they're not immediately being sent back for correction upon being found faulty.

From what we heard and read, I think it's safe to assume that not even 50% of all preorders are assembled. No matter how much of 'failed' devices can be re-used, the point that there are most probably a lot of pre-orders (hundreds, if not thousands) where assembly---or even production---has not even started, still stands.

[david 929]

Does anyone have first hand experience with an OLED screen having light bleed?  If so, I am curious about the following:

- Does the screen have light bleed only after being used for some period of time, or from the time it is born?

- Is it not possible to plug a screen into a test machine before installing it in a phone and needing to go through a lengthy and costly process of disassembling the phone to replace it with another untested screen?

It seems to me that testing each screen, outside of a phone (or at least outside of a locked down, fully assembled phone...maybe the test machine could still be an opened phone) would be an easy way to do a quality check on screens.  What am I missing here?

This (the fact that some percentage of screens have this issue) also comes into play for those of us who want to buy spare screens.  We would generally buy them before our current screen fails or breaks.  But we wouldn't know if the replacement screen is going to have issues, until we plug it into our phones.  And hopefully that isn't so far in the future that we can't get the screens anymore, if the replacement(s) are bad.

If we want to avoid this, we either need a way to test the screen for light bleed outside of a phone, or we will need to disassemble our phones and test each replacement screen ahead of time.  In this case, we will need to know if light bleed shows immediately, or if it takes hours/days of use to show up (so that we know how long to test it, before concluding that the test is valid).

[Zamasu 258]

6 minutes ago, david said:

Does anyone have first hand experience with an OLED screen having light bleed?  If so, I am curious about the following:

- Does the screen have light bleed only after being used for some period of time, or from the time it is born?

- Is it not possible to plug a screen into a test machine before installing it in a phone and needing to go through a lengthy and costly process of disassembling the phone to replace it with another untested screen?

It seems to me that testing each screen, outside of a phone (or at least outside of a locked down, fully assembled phone...maybe the test machine could still be an opened phone) would be an easy way to do a quality check on screens.  What am I missing here?

This (the fact that some percentage of screens have this issue) also comes into play for those of us who want to buy spare screens.  We would generally buy them before our current screen fails or breaks.  But we wouldn't know if the replacement screen is going to have issues, until we plug it into our phones.  And hopefully that isn't so far in the future that we can't get the screens anymore, if the replacement(s) are bad.

If we want to avoid this, we either need a way to test the screen for light bleed outside of a phone, or we will need to disassemble our phones and test each replacement screen ahead of time.  In this case, we will need to know if light bleed shows immediately, or if it takes hours/days of use to show up (so that we know how long to test it, before concluding that the test is valid).

Could be that every screen has that issue, but something about the combination of the rest of the phone with the screen fixes it. But only a percentage of the time. We really don't know much about it. You could look up I think the Elephant phone that uses the same screen for how the light bleed was there, but again, it might not be applicable.

[EskeRahn 5,460]

27 minutes ago, Zamasu said:

Could be that every screen has that issue, but something about the combination of the rest of the phone with the screen fixes it. But only a percentage of the time. We really don't know much about it. You could look up I think the Elephant phone that uses the same screen for how the light bleed was there, but again, it might not be applicable.

Or could be that something on the assembly has to be done extremely careful not to trigger it - I have no idea. But that could mean that they could not pre-test the displays. On the Elephone U Pro replacement screens some reports green lines, again we do not know it this is due to assembly. A wild guess could be an extremely sensitive cable.

[VaZso 1,998]

1 hour ago, david said:

Does anyone have first hand experience with an OLED screen having light bleed?  If so, I am curious about the following:

- Does the screen have light bleed only after being used for some period of time, or from the time it is born?

I don't know but I guess it may be there from its born.

1 hour ago, david said:

This (the fact that some percentage of screens have this issue) also comes into play for those of us who want to buy spare screens.  We would generally buy them before our current screen fails or breaks.  But we wouldn't know if the replacement screen is going to have issues, until we plug it into our phones.  And hopefully that isn't so far in the future that we can't get the screens anymore, if the replacement(s) are bad.

This is true, I am also thinking of buying replacement screen once I have my Pro1 in my hands.
I don't know how this "light bleed" looks like but I am currently think it is better to have a screen with light bleeding problem than another screen which is cracked or may not work at all.

1 hour ago, david said:

If we want to avoid this, we either need a way to test the screen for light bleed outside of a phone, or we will need to disassemble our phones and test each replacement screen ahead of time.  In this case, we will need to know if light bleed shows immediately, or if it takes hours/days of use to show up (so that we know how long to test it, before concluding that the test is valid).

I will definitively not disassemble my phone if it does not have problems.
Anyway, if something is wrong (broken screen, battery problem or anything else), then I will open it to replace faulty parts.

...but until there is not problem, there is no reason to disassemble it.

Anyway, first of all, we should know how this light bleed looks like - maybe it is not as serious for everyday life or some own solution may also solve it for a while.

[VaZso 1,998]

It seems this is the mentioned light bleeding issue on Elephone:

If I will have to replace my screen, I may be able to live with this problem but I may also try to hide it while assembling it.

I don't feel it is a huge problem if we should choose between having a non-working Pro1 or a working one with some light coming out from a wrong place...

[david 929]

2 minutes ago, VaZso said:

I will definitively not disassemble my phone if it does not have problems.
Anyway, if something is wrong (broken screen, battery problem or anything else), then I will open it to replace faulty parts.

...but until there is not problem, there is no reason to disassemble it.

Anyway, first of all, we should know how this light bleed looks like - maybe it is not as serious for everyday life or some own solution may also solve it for a while.

I will probably wait until the warranty period is over and then test any replacement screens I have, without sealing it back up completely.  

Light bleed on other phones/TVs looks like uneven brightness at the edges of the display and can be large or small in the area where they occur.  Think of a black screen, but where it is not black in a semi-circle at various spots along the edge.  That is what I have seen other people report with other devices/TVs.  I just don't know if it was from day 1 or after extended use.

[kashif 350]

1 hour ago, david said:

I will probably wait until the warranty period is over and then test any replacement screens I have, without sealing it back up completely.  

Light bleed on other phones/TVs looks like uneven brightness at the edges of the display and can be large or small in the area where they occur.  Think of a black screen, but where it is not black in a semi-circle at various spots along the edge.  That is what I have seen other people report with other devices/TVs.  I just don't know if it was from day 1 or after extended use.

i would think that it fx email has said its been looked at and fixed in the new batch then it should be fixed, provided that what is said is true.