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Pro¹ X – state of production and delivery


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33 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

The big question here is when they placed the orders, but I certainly agree that it is frustrating that they got them, and we as backers are still waiting.

Here is my big answer Eske:

Update from IGG, Oct. 24 2022

...

Before our mass manufacturing phase, Expansys had pre-ordered a small batch of units from us. Considering Expansys is our long-term business partner and a well-established D2C electronics retailer, we agreed to manufacture and sell an additional number of units outside of our contractual shipping and distribution arrangement.

...

So this is clearly a violation of perk fullfillment.

Again, "before our mass manufacturing phase".

No guessing involved. I like  what you do as a moderator on this forum, but let us not protect them, where they really failed

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Production does indeed seem to be starting...  

Please stop. You made your points, there are people here who invested in this project knowing that, you are doing a disservice to the intent of the project and to those that have supported this f

Since I ordered my first Fxtec phone, a Pro1, in Sept 2019 (which also seems to become the one to arrive last...) I've read everything Fxtec communicated (plus every comment in this forum), including

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1 minute ago, steff said:

No guessing involved. I like  what you do as a moderator on this forum, but let us not protect them, where they really failed

It certainly does not sound good, but I have not got enough info to know if this is just (yet another) example of their communication skills being far from stellar, or they actually broke some rule - and even if they did, if they were aware of them.

From what they have told us long ago they produced and send 'our' devices to a warehouse from which the shipping was first halted for months due to some dispute we know no details about, and is now happening at an appalling slow rate.

BUT it is a big question if anything produced after FxTec sent out our devices from the factory, and before we get them will be in violation of the rules, though it is an absurd situation that the shipping is happening so slowly that we can get them from resellers faster. One GUESS could be that it is a consequence of the dispute that the shipping is deliberately slow, giving FxTec extremely low priority.

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9 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

It certainly does not sound good, but I have not got enough info to know if this is just (yet another) example of their communication skills being far from stellar, or they actually broke some rule - and even if they did, if they were aware of them.

From what they have told us long ago they produced and send 'our' devices to a warehouse from which the shipping was first halted for months due to some dispute we know no details about, and is now happening at an appalling slow rate.

BUT it is a big question if anything produced after FxTec sent out our devices from the factory, and before we get them will be in violation of the rules, though it is an absurd situation that the shipping is happening so slowly that we can get them from resellers faster. One GUESS could be that it is a consequence of the dispute that the shipping is deliberately slow, giving FxTec extremely low priority.

In the update they admitted, that they agreed to sell an additional batch of the exclusive IGG devices to Expansys while the IGG campaign is rolling. You do not see the violation?

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1 minute ago, steff said:

In the update they admitted, that they agreed to sell an additional batch of the exclusive IGG devices to Expansys while the IGG campaign is rolling. You do not see the violation?

I'm not saying whether they violated anything. Their communication is always weak, and again here what they wrote can be interpreted in more ways than one.

That they accepted the order before the mass-production does not mean they SERVED it before. All we KNOW here is their "we agreed to manufacture and sell an additional number of units..." And "additional" could both mean before, after or in same run as "ours".
If produced and sent out before, then a violation.
If produced and sent out after, then hardly a violation.
If produced and sent out in the same run, I have no idea.

But IF they deliberately violated some rules, then shame on them.

If FxTec produced a number of units dedicated to us, with expensys as those that where suppose to package and send them, and expensys took their ordered share from that pool in vigilantism, then the blame is on expensys.

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It was fine when it was we ordered in April of 2021 and were told Christmas 2021.
Then it got pushed and pushed.
With all the hardware and outdated OS issues and swapping out the processor, it started getting iffy.

But I love my Pro1 so much so Hubby was willing to wait.
But his old phone was slowly dying.
Still he waited.

When I sent an email to my regular contacts in November and they ghosted me. ME! The one they sent Kitty pics to and wished Happy New Year and remembered my birthday. That made us concerned.

He was still willing to wait when they said they would ship in December. That was kinda the final straw.

Then T-Mobile offered to give him a free phone. No contract change or anything - just here's a free Motorola 5G Stylus with Android 13. It's not the best but the last time he had a new phone was in 2011. How sad is that? He's happier with a $300 phone in hand that has no keyboard and a Snapdragon 480 then he was with idea of waiting for a phone he might never get.

To say I am disappointed with how fxtec has dropped the ball is euphemistic. It shouldn't be this way.

I remember how I had changed my mind and sold my first Pro1 just to change it back a few days later.
Got my 1st one on 12/10 after waiting for 8 months. Changed my mind because of charging issues.
Sold it a few days later.
FOMO and ordered another on 12/16/19, got my tracking # on 01/20/20 and had my phone a week later on 01/27/20.

I remember getting an apology note because it did not reach me by 1/23 for my birthday.

I really hope for their sakes that they sort things out eventually, but sadly I don't think that we will be future customers. The trust is just gone.

That said, I will keep my Pro1 alive until it literally dies. I will live with Android 9 and all the slightly less-than features because I LOVE my phone.

As an amusing side note, I lit up my Sidekick 4G today and it still works.

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6 minutes ago, sequestris said:

I really hope for their sakes that they sort things out eventually, but sadly I don't think that we will be future customers. The trust is just gone.

That said, I will keep my Pro1 alive until it literally dies. I will live with Android 9 and all the slightly less-than features because I LOVE my phone.

It is sad, but I certainly understand you. I guess I'm among their most hard core fans, but yet I'm not 100% positive any more.

...Yet if they announce a Pro2, I'm almost sure I will be a backer on IGG again - though I certainly would consider an option for a (more expensive) alternative pre-order carefully.

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5 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

It is sad, but I certainly understand you. I guess I'm among their most hard core fans, but yet I'm not 100% positive any more.

...Yet if they announce a Pro2, I'm almost sure I will be a backer on IGG again - though I certainly would consider an option for a (more expensive) alternative pre-order carefully.

See I did not order from IGG - I ordered directly though the Main website.
That said, yeah - a Pro2 that is a for real upgrade, that they guarantee support for, removable battery,
Never say never. Trust is gone but if there is an in stock item I am IN.

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And has anyone tried to hold them to this?

"7.10 Your rights if we suspend the supply of products. We will contact you in advance to tell you we will be suspending supply of the product, unless the problem is urgent or an emergency. If we have to suspend the product for longer than 30 days in any 3 month period we will adjust the price so that you do not pay for products while they are suspended. You may contact us to end the contract for a product if we suspend it, or tell you we are going to suspend it, in each case for a period of more than 30 days and we will refund any sums you have paid in advance for the product in respect of the period after you end the contract."

https://www.fxtec.com/terms-of-sale

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36 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

If produced and sent out before, then a violation.
If produced and sent out after, then hardly a violation.
If produced and sent out in the same run, I have no idea.

 

Perk Fulfillment

  • ...
  • Once your Campaign has ended, Contributors must receive their Perk before you send Perks to any other contributors or backers of a Campaign on any other fundraising or e-commerce website

This should be clear enough even for you. I know you are a fanboy, and i mean this in a positive way. I loved the whole idea at the beginning, too. Not anymore though. Here is the original link:

https://www.indiegogo.com/about/community-guidelines#/campaignexpectations

To make it 100% clear: The IGG backers have to RECEIVE the perk before fxtec can SEND perks to Expansys or their own website buyers.

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1 minute ago, steff said:

To make it 100% clear: The IGG backers have to RECEIVE the perk before fxtec can SEND perks to Expansys or their own website buyers.

They certainly did not abide to that rule. :classic_sad::classic_angry:

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5 minutes ago, steff said:

Once your Campaign has ended, Contributors must receive their Perk before you send Perks to any other contributors or backers of a Campaign on any other fundraising or e-commerce website

...Strange wording by the way as this seems to leave a loophole for selling to a physical store.

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@steff and @EskeRahn: While I agree to all you write, maybe there is one thing that can be said in F(x)tec's defence: From their perspective, everything must have changed at the moment they were forced to "upgrade" all pending orders for the original Pro1 to Pro1X's: As at least some of those were ordered (and paid!) way before the start of the IGG campaign, they essentially had the choice to betray either these original Pro1 customers (by postponing them until after end of the IGG campaign) or the Pro1X campaign-backers (by continuing to serve regular website customers alike, breaking IGG rules). There probably was no good solution to that problem, and it wouldn't surprise me if they, themselves, could not provide really compelling argument for all the decisions they had to make.

Of course all these explanations do not help anyone. Like so many, this project -- which I still love every time I open my Pro1 -- is in a saddening state. I can well imagine that, at the present state of things, budget sales through 3rd parties are the only way for F(x)tec to keep things going at all ...  

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14 minutes ago, claude0001 said:

@steff and @EskeRahn: While I agree to all you write, maybe there is one thing that can be said in F(x)tec's defence: From their perspective, everything must have changed at the moment they were forced to "upgrade" all pending orders for the original Pro1 to Pro1X's: As at least some of those were ordered (and paid!) way before the start of the IGG campaign, they essentially had the choice to betray either these original Pro1 customers (by postponing them until after end of the IGG campaign) or the Pro1X campaign-backers (by continuing to serve regular website customers alike, breaking IGG rules). There probably was no good solution to that problem, and it wouldn't surprise me if they, themselves, could not provide really compelling argument for all the decisions they had to make.

Of course all these explanations do not help anyone. Like so many, this project -- which I still love every time I open my Pro1 -- is in a saddening state. I can well imagine that, at the present state of things, budget sales through 3rd parties are the only way for F(x)tec to keep things going at all ...  

I agree with everything you said and it is not contradictory to anything i said. Basically the (open) original pro1 orders could not be delivered without the new pro1x campaign. You need a certain minimum quantity for mass production and raise enough capital and so on. This way the Fxtec pro1 website sales and the IGG campaign were never independent and violating the IGG rules was basically "planed" from the start.

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Yeah, it more and more looks like they might be bending rules and exploiting loopholes in trying to keep afloat.

They also might already be doing that for longer than we might like to believe.

Still they seem to be intent on serving every order, and while I understand everyone's frustration, I'd rather see a few hundred devices being offered cheap from Expansys and some others before I get the one order that I'm still waiting for, if whatever is happening there increases the chances of me getting anything at all.  

(For what it's worth, these, by the way, don´t seem to be offered as new, but as opened, unused...)

Edited by Rob. S.
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25 minutes ago, steff said:

This way the Fxtec pro1 website sales and the IGG campaign were never independent and violating the IGG rules was basically "planed" from the start.

It really depends on what you mean by "planned."  My take on things is that F (X) Tec took business orders (probably early on, as @EskeRahn suggested) that would be shipped once the perks had been shipped.  The perks (and website orders) were palleted (I'm assuming the pictures weren't fake)and sent from the factory to the Expansys logistics operation.  All seemed good, so the retail orders were triggered. Then they were hit with the contract dispute.  But while our units were stuck, the businesses were able to get the devices (they were no doubt direct shipped from the factory) as they were not affected by the contract dispute. 

Nothing F(x)Tec has ever "planned" on this project has come to pass, it seems, and I seriously doubt any of this mess was planned.

I'm far more interested in what happened with the contract dispute and why shipping is proceeding so slowly.  I did buy an Expansys unit for a friend I talked into buying the phone, but I still wait for mine.

Edited by Hook
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13 minutes ago, Hook said:

It really depends on what you mean by "planned."  My take on things is that F (X) Tec took business orders (probably early on, as @EskeRahn suggested) that would be shipped once the perks had been shipped.  The perks (and website orders) were palleted (I'm assuming the pictures weren't fake)and sent from the factory to the Expansys logistics operation.  All seemed good, so the retail orders were triggered. Then they were hit with the contract dispute.  But while our units were stuck, the businesses were able to get the devices (they were no doubt direct shipped from the factory) as they were not affected by the contract dispute. 

Nothing F(x)Tec has ever "planned" on this project has come to pass, it seems, and I seriously doubt any of this mess was planned.

I'm far more interested in what happened with the contract dispute and why shipping is proceeding so slowly.  I did buy an Expansys unit for a friend I talked into buying the phone, but I still wait for mine.

The lack of independence of IGG backers and website orders is what i meant with planned violation of IGG rules. The other additional batch for Expansys and the other platforms selling the devices right now were not planned at the start but probably are conflict management decisions to get money to ship the devices to backers.

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On 2/5/2023 at 3:30 PM, Schket said:

Waiting since November...

 

 

On 1/30/2023 at 7:11 PM, Chris said:

 how long should i expect to wait for a response from the finance group re: refund?

3 months (ish) for a refund.

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"We are currently experiencing an issue with our online payments provider due to an increased sum of refunds over the past few months.

The amount you are owed, will definitely get back to you, but it could take up to 3 months.

We understand this is far from ideal. On behalf of our payments provider, we apologise for the delay."

 
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@EskeRahn man am i glad that unihertz actualy did what they prommised 
that company did something that seemingly is impossible and made it look easy 
the more i see FX and Astro fail with their devices  the more respect i have for unihertz and their price point they are selling at . More or less it seems its  a miracle they pulled it off true covid and all the other excuses astro and fx have for not shipping

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1 hour ago, zundappchef said:

@EskeRahn man am i glad that unihertz actualy did what they prommised 
that company did something that seemingly is impossible and made it look easy 
the more i see FX and Astro fail with their devices  the more respect i have for unihertz and their price point they are selling at . More or less it seems its  a miracle they pulled it off true covid and all the other excuses astro and fx have for not shipping

Well they sort of did things the other way round. They produced the device, to a stage where they only needed to know how many they should produce, before going for crowdfunding. A bit unusual, but obviously crowdfunding can be used as a pure sales channel too.

How they managed to ship it I do not know, My GUESS is it is/was easier for a Chinese company to ship out, than for foreign companies? But just my guess. Also remember that personal contacts is very important for Chinese deals to go forward, and as people was prohibited from going in from abroad, neither FxTec nor Planet could meet in person.

Before Covid Chen was really frequent in China, as I understood it.

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2 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

They produced the device, to a stage where they only needed to know how many they should produce, before going for crowdfunding. A bit unusual, but obviously crowdfunding can be used as a pure sales channel too.

To be fair, the Pro1-X was initially quite close to that same idea.

At the start of the IGG campaign, the Pro1 not only existed, but had been field-tested by quite a few customers already. The alternative OS's -- then the "big thing" about the Pro1-X -- were already available in either rock-solid (LineageOS) or beta-quality (UBTouch) form. Yes, you could add more memory and get a shiny blue body with custom engraving. But no one really expected any showstoppers there, given that the phone would technically remain a Pro1. 

In my view, the Pro1-X campaign was initially intended purely as a vehicle to generate (additional) funds. Which is totally OK, as those funds were at least partly meant for e.g. Ubuntu development. 

Edited by claude0001
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I got the Pro1X I ordered in Oct 2020, but I didn't get the Pro1 (later changed to Pro1X) I ordered in Sept 2019 yet. So while you're not alone, devices actually do get shipped, albeit only in small numbers currently as far as it is known. 

If you eventually get the phone and don't want it, you can always sell it, though. There's more demand than supply and despite Expansys HK currently offering limited numbers rather cheap, unused devices still sell well on ebay (for up to $750). 

 

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11 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

How they managed to ship it I do not know, My GUESS is it is/was easier for a Chinese company to ship out, than for foreign companies? But just my guess. Also remember that personal contacts is very important for Chinese deals to go forward, and as people was prohibited from going in from abroad, neither FxTec nor Planet could meet in person.

Right, that was one very important part of the story.

Another point was timing (I don't know if Unihertz had better luck regarding this)...
I mean it may happen that only a few weeks have caused a huge difference regarding re-branded Pro1 vs. the long journey of Pro1X.

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