DIY battery replacement options?

[FlyingAntero 871]

Interesting! Pro1X and Pro1 have same battery model 5036108PLN but different manufacturer.

Pro1: Dongguan Guoxia Electronic Technology Co. Ltd 

Pro1X: Shenzhen Kehuaxin Electronic Co Ltd

Picture of my Pro1 when I opened it:

[EskeRahn 5,464]

5 hours ago, FlyingAntero said:

Interesting! Pro1X and Pro1 have same battery model 5036108PLN but different manufacturer.

Very interesting!! Especially as FxTec has said explicitly that we can not use a battery for one, on the other.

@Casey Can you clarify on what the difference is?, is it 'just' a different cable/plug?
If so a Pro1X battery could be a great DIY start for repairing a Pro1, when FxTec no longer have the Pro1 batteries for sale.

[SchattengestaIt 559]

On 4/1/2023 at 4:51 PM, dt.white said:

Indeed, would need to find a battery narrower than 36mm though, not many vendors list dimension sizes of the battery itself.

I've also had a quick look back through the FCC filing images, and attached I've highlighted the connector terminal on the board, no markings that I could see but perhaps it might be identifiable at some point?

On this picture you see golden contacts which may have been added for testing in development stage. They're very easy to solder.
We can simply measure which pins get where (one of them being VBAT shown in the picture) and connect the battery that way.

The main question is what the circuitry does. I guess it's a BMS (battery management system) and the battery consists of more than one cell. If so, you'd need a replacement battery with the same amount of cells and it should be fine.

I've asked a german manufacturer (Polarcell) of replacement batterys if they'd be interested of producing such a battery for the market. If I get a positive answer, I'll let you know.

[SchattengestaIt 559]

13 hours ago, SchattengestaIt said:

I've asked a german manufacturer (Polarcell) of replacement batterys if they'd be interested of producing such a battery for the market. If I get a positive answer, I'll let you know.

I just got the answer: they need to order at least 5000 batteries when they design a new battery. Since the FxTec is so rare, that's not going to happen.

[sequestris 710]

On 3/30/2023 at 8:37 AM, dt.white said:

I've been recently looking into this myself given the deterioration of the battery (currently approx. 73% health

 

How can you check to see if your battery really needs to be replaced? Like Mine was fully charged 8 hours ago and it's currently at 92% saying 3 days left.
Is that good or bad?

[Hook 3,033]

10 minutes ago, sequestris said:

How can you check to see if your battery really needs to be replaced? Like Mine was fully charged 8 hours ago and it's currently at 92% saying 3 days left.
Is that good or bad?

That's definitely good, especially if you were actually doing anything with it during those 8 hours.

[sequestris 710]

4 minutes ago, Hook said:

That's definitely good, especially if you were actually doing anything with it during those 8 hours.

Heavy browsing for about an hour, looking at photos etc. Other than that, mostly sleeping with the phone in airplane mode

[Hook 3,033]

4 minutes ago, sequestris said:

Heavy browsing for about an hour, looking at photos etc. Other than that, mostly sleeping with the phone in airplane mode

Yes, that is still good.  Airplane mode helps.  I never use that as I want my emails and dropbox  and such updating in real time.

[EskeRahn 5,464]

5 hours ago, sequestris said:

mostly sleeping with the phone in airplane mode

Aeroplane mode is a great thing!. I often use it during meetings or when I go to the Cinema. Much easier and faster to enter/exit than turning off/on. On most devices with quite a low power consumption also. 😁

[Adrienspawn 126]

On 4/12/2023 at 1:04 PM, FlyingAntero said:

Interesting! Pro1X and Pro1 have same battery model 5036108PLN but different manufacturer.

Pro1: Dongguan Guoxia Electronic Technology Co. Ltd 

Pro1X: Shenzhen Kehuaxin Electronic Co Ltd

Picture of my Pro1 when I opened it:

 

From Shenzhen one on Alibaba closest match is:

H5.8mm*W32mm*L127mm (perhaps slightly thinner but longer..)

https://xlalibaba.m.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html

https://m.alibaba.com/product/1600479525175/detail.html?channel=minisite_a2706.wshop_pl.113.i6&otherparams=https%3A%2F%2Fm.alibaba.com%2Fproduct%2F1600479525175%2F5832127-High-capacity-polymer-lithium-ion.html

Edited May 19, 2023 by Adrienspawn

[SchattengestaIt 559]

5 hours ago, Adrienspawn said:

From Shenzhen one on Alibaba closest match is:

H5.8mm*W32mm*L127mm (perhaps slightly thinner but longer..)

https://xlalibaba.m.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html

https://m.alibaba.com/product/1600479525175/detail.html?channel=minisite_a2706.wshop_pl.113.i6&otherparams=https%3A%2F%2Fm.alibaba.com%2Fproduct%2F1600479525175%2F5832127-High-capacity-polymer-lithium-ion.html

Sadly, 'a bit longer' is really bad. You can't just cut off a part of the battery. We'd need a battery smaller than 36mm*110mm (I don't know the height) to work. 

How did you search for the dimensions though? Maybe we can help you.

[SchattengestaIt 559]

I did some research myself, based on photos:
- 80x34x4.7 (1500mAh)
https://www.batteries4pro.com/en/communication/Telephony/alcatel/3,7393-3-8v-1-5ah-li-ion-battery-for-alcatel-one-touch-pixi-4-4-0-4894128125198.html

 - 76x36x6.4 (1800mAh) - maybe too thick
https://www.batteries4pro.com/en/communication/Telephony/nokia/3,9628-3-7v-1-8ah-li-polymer-battery-for-nokia-lumia-900-4894128076117.html

- 92x32x3.5 (1400mAh) - Apple
https://www.batteries4pro.com/en/communication/Telephony/apple/3,7433-battery-38v-14ah-lipo-for-apple-iphone-5-4894128065395.html

- 90x30x4 (2900mAh) - Apple
https://www.batteries4pro.com/en/communication/Telephony/apple/3,3943-battery-38v-2900mah-li-po-compatible-iphone-6-plus-4894128092711.html

I don't know if Apple batteries are designed differently (so they'd need a completely different bms) but the last example would probably be a good option for a replacement.


 

[Adrienspawn 126]

15 hours ago, SchattengestaIt said:

Sadly, 'a bit longer' is really bad. You can't just cut off a part of the battery. We'd need a battery smaller than 36mm*110mm (I don't know the height) to work. 

How did you search for the dimensions though? Maybe we can help you.

Was hoping their official online storefront would offer an identical match, but too hopeful.

I was also wondering if it is more like their smaller 1600mah battery but stacked twice one above the other to make 3200mah.

The size of those Apple ones would be OK, but too weak in voltage/capacity to be considered IMO.

Something like this at 3.85V at 3400mah (13/09Wh) for perhaps the Lenovo Zuk Z2?

https://www.batteriesnbulbs.com/BnB-Sino-6505-CS-LVZ210SL-3.85V-3400mAh-13.09Wh-Li-Polymer-Mobile-SmartPhone-Battery-for-Lenovo.html

A lot of websites have really great selections and list the dimensions (or at least the phone they go with, at which point the dimensions are Googlable).

The connection I'm not sure about but I'm loving that it takes up most of the length (104.3) and would have to be squeezed in snug for the width (38.75).

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003012788592.html Similar knockoff for the Z2 at 3.82V though.

 

[EskeRahn 5,464]

On 5/20/2023 at 5:16 PM, Adrienspawn said:

Something like this at 3.85V at 3400mah (13/09Wh) for perhaps

It is great that you do the effort in hunting down replacements, would be so great to know that there is an option, even if the capacity is a bit lower than what we got.

[SchattengestaIt 559]

@Adrienspawn The original battery has 3200mAh so 2900mAh would be fine for a non-standard replacement. I also believe the connector won't be a problem although it actually looks very similar to the Pro1's default connector.
I could imagine we can simply input and output electricity without even changing the circuit in the battery. If not, we are most probably able to extract the circuit from the old (broken) battery to add it to the new one.

The Lenovo Zuk battery seems great. But 3mm? I believe +1mm is no problem but 3mm is a lot of squeezing.
I still ordered one and will give feedback if it does fit.

[FlyingAntero 871]

I think that there is some room to play with regarding length. It does not seem to be tight fit. Also, maybe you could dremel those plastic corners to make more space?

 

People have done crazy mods in the past.

Example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nexus5/comments/2yr8q2/swapped_my_nexus_5_battery_for_the_battery_from/

[SchattengestaIt 559]

The first photo doesn't include the usb port. There's not much room behind the usb port (I'd say 3-4mm), we would need 17mm. The connector and wifi (?) cable are both in the way. The only way I see this happen would be to completely get rid of the usb port and add a second one around the fingerprint sensor like I did here. I never used my stock usb port anymore so it's not impossible.

But is it really worth the effort to completely remove your main usb port, wire up a secondary port on the side of your phone only to gain gain up to 600mAh (17.5%) to the second best battery option? 
My intention always was to get funktionality and repairability if FxTec can't provide replacement parts. If your battery had lost over 50% capacity (now having 1600mAh compared to the original 3200mAh), getting a new battery with 3400mAh or even less would be a great improvement. People are happy to get the original 3200mAh batteries but they're too expensive.

[Adrienspawn 126]

Yeah the stock battery for around 200 CAD shipped is a big ask when a new LCD is 40. I didn't mind paying a premium 900 for the phone originally but now it is really dated with the CPU/RAM to the point where an investment of that magnitude would be better put towards a whole new phone.

I try not to open it up too much in order to keep everything working smoothly, but I'll certainly be placing an order once I track down the ideal battery replacement around 20$.

Looking forward to seeing if Schattengestalt here has any success with the connection and sizing since he jumped on it. I tend to take a long time when researching products and prices and still have some looking around to do.

[david 929]

Here is an OPPO R17 battery.  That's my best guess at one that has the same connector as the Pro1X, going from a photo in another topic here.

Blurry close-up of the connector for the above battery:

Another one:

And the connector:

 

I think this will physically fit in the Pro1X, but the connector is in the wrong location.  I'm guessing we'd need an extension cable to allow it to reach the Pro1X motherboard.

If someone who has their Pro1X apart wants to buy the OPPO R17 and plug in the battery to see if it will power up the phone, that would be the next logical step.  I'd do it, but my Pro1X hasn't been apart yet and I'd rather not dig into it until I have to.

An alternative solution, since we'll probably have to make extension cables anyway, is to try one of the batteries earlier in this topic, with a custom made extension cable going from the connector on those batteries to the OPPO R17 connector.  More variables involved there.

It *might* be possible to twist/fold the connector on the batteries I show in this post, over on itself, and connect to the Pro1X motherboard, with the battery sitting in the south end of the compartment.  Only one good way to find out. 😁

David

[david 929]

5 minutes ago, david said:

I think this will physically fit in the Pro1X, but the connector is in the wrong location.  I'm guessing we'd need an extension cable to allow it to reach the Pro1X motherboard.

Sorry, I got my numbers mixed up.  I believe these batteries are too wide for the Pro1X enclosure.  An extension cable won't help these particular batteries fit.

However, if we find a battery that will physically fit, then we might be able to make an extension/conversion cable between its connector type and the Pro1X (OPPO R17) connector type.

[SchattengestaIt 559]

I fear we don't only need the same connector (it's three or four pins after all) but the same hardware behind it. The pins will be ground | VBus (positive) | temperature | capacity
A different battery might uses different resistors so it would deliver wrong values.

Since the battery itself only has two pins which connect to the circuit, the best approach is to remove the circuit from your Pro1 battery and solder it to your new battery that fits into your phone.

I have a new (probably) fitting battery laying around but I haven't had the time to try out if it actually fits and how the Pro1 behaves if you only connect two or three pins (VBUS, GND, temperature). Temperature sensors are usually a thermal resistor between temperature pin / GND.

[david 929]

13 hours ago, SchattengestaIt said:

I fear we don't only need the same connector (it's three or four pins after all) but the same hardware behind it. The pins will be ground | VBus (positive) | temperature | capacity
A different battery might uses different resistors so it would deliver wrong values.

I guess I was hoping things were pretty standardized.  What happens if the resisters are different?   Will it not provide power to the phone, not charge, or something else?

[SchattengestaIt 559]

I can only guess at this point. The best case scenario would be an error in the capacity (I've seen that before). If it expects a different thermal resistor, it wouldn't charge.

But I really don't know. Maybe there's a failsafe mechanism that allows usage with a standard protocol (like only charge with up to 0.5A to prevent overheating).

At the point where I exchange the battery I'll do some measurements to see how big of a difference those resistors are compared to other batteries...

[raymo 177]

I have here two spare battery for the Pro1 (not x of course).
I need only one, and I plan to replace it in this summer.

EDIT : sold
***So if someone is interested in a spare battery, I would be happy to sold it for 50 euros and I can send it in EU or Switzerland.  ...***

@SchattengestaIt Also if you need some measurement or test on it let me know, I doubt I can dig in internal regulation without break it, but it could be (carefully) doable with the old battery as far as I've replaced it.
I guess the regulation circuit is (relative) standard, and will be fun digging into small chipset and searching for datasheet.

Edited June 8, 2023 by raymo

[foxfreejack 60]

20 hours ago, SchattengestaIt said:

If it expects a different thermal resistor, it wouldn't charge.

It could also be contacts for a I²C bus...