EskeRahn
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Posts posted by EskeRahn
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What I still don’t understand is what makes some google camera app ports work and others not work? Are the developers doing some sort of phone specific/camera chip specific API calls?
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As an example the Open Camera App on my Samsung S8- in all the situations I tested produced end results as good as what the accompanying Samsung camera app did. (and the Open Camera app got additional flexibility).
WaxBerry have confirmed earlier that Open Camera already works on the current preproduction units.
But let us try to straighten things out here in general terms. (Hopefully some more knowledgeable in the field can correct&supplement)
There are multiple things in play. Apart from all the hardware, there is a driver (software/firmware implementing the functions in the API). And finally a program with the user-interface.
The hardware might be 100% identical to what you find in other devices.
And we know we can use well known and tested programs like Open Camera as the UI / camera app against a standard API
But the driver is generally manufacturer proprietary software. So the same hardware with the same program on top does not give 100% identical images.
I have no doubt that the hardware providers to some extend help the manufacturers with what is needed for a driver, but there will always be manufacturer specific things. and I bet they are fine tuning the drivers between each iteration of software until release, and most likely also after receiving feedback from us once we get the units and use them in real live.
And to make things MORE complex, not all drivers implement ALL functionality in the API. If you download an app like "Camera2 API Probe" and run it, you should not at all be surprised if not all goes green. My S8- was a flagship and is produced in millions, and yet is not implementing everything. See attached output.
As I understand it the Open Camera requires SOME functionality to be there, and are able to use further functionalities if they are available.
To make things more muddy some manufacturers might NOT implement drivers with a standard API, but have a proprietary API working with there own camera app only.
Luckily (as I understand it) the Pro¹ has chosen the clean path of a standard API, so we in principle can choose between what camera app we want, that expects this standard Camera2 API.
[attachment file=14755]
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Thanks EskeRahn. I wasn’t sure if “The Pro1 will ship with QWERTY…” meant only US QWERTY or other QWERTY layouts too, with other alternate symbols on the keys.
(I do not KNOW that is what is meant, but I ASSUME so - it is not super clear)
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I haven’t been following all the other threads. Is US QWERTY the only one that will be offered at launch?
I don't think they have it quite clear if the German QWERTZ will be offered simultaneously or follows after.
The pre-order page (still?) says
When will you support other keyboard layouts (QWERTZ, AZERTY, Scandi etc)The Pro1 will ship with QWERTY keyboard layout, when there is sufficient demand we will create additional keyboard layouts.But we DO know that a German QWERTZ will be made (see this thread).
with
...we will try to deliver it same time with QWERTY. :) -
I’m quite astonished that no francophone seems to be interested…
Well until now only 25 people have answered the Poll, that was just launched about 24h ago. So hardly a representative proportion of the interested. See e.g. the disproportional large portion in the polls from the small Scandinavian countries.
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Strictly we are talking different users segments for a physical keyboard.
[ul]Those that prefer a fixed portrait keyboard (BB Key½)
Those that prefer a portrait slider (Priv)
Those that prefer a landscape slider (Pro¹)
Those that prefer a fixed lansdscape keyboard (non-existing AFAIK)
Those that prefer a clamshell lansdscape keyboard (Cosmo)
Those that prefer a clamshell portrait keyboard (not seen for many years)[/ul]
But of course in lack of the other models most could/would let do with one from the first or second neighbouring segment as still better than just a slab without a keyboard...
As my personal preference is landscape slider, I (in lack of better) earlier used a Priv, and considered a Cosmo, but never a Key½
So as with so many other things, there is no absolute "best". Only a "best" for each persons usage pattern.
And ANY device is a matter of compromises due to physical and technical limitations. The Pro¹ is a bit on the large side for my taste, as I like one hand operable phones. But the large screen will for sure be something my old eyes will prefer over a phone-sized device... So even compromises here...
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Please note, that a symbol not PRINTED on the keyboard does not mean that it is not possible to FUNCTIONALLY have it. So if only a minority would need ~ it could still be functionally on the N, even if not printed.
I think that adding special symbol PRINTS that only a minority would benefit from, would just make the keyboard look messy for the majority that do not need these symbols (or would prefer other symbols).
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Here is a proposal for the Nordic/Scandinavian keyboard layout, based on the German QWERTZ layout (https://www.fxtec.com/forums/topic/design-the-qwertz-layout/page/12/#post-14233):
I really don't like the three characters printed that way, but unfortunately I do not have a better idea, as different colours would also look ugly (and most likely would add to the cost). Now if only the Danes did not swap the two, one could have been 'creative' and printed the Ö with a thin slash and dots. And similar the Ä/Æ could have been printed as an A with a thin E and dots.... I bet both Swedes and Norwegians could live with that... Like this quick mock-up
[attachment file=14623]
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Moderator, could you please edit the link in my original post to the new one, but still keep this post to explain what has happened?
Done.
For the curious, the old poll was here -
Yeah, I am not neglecting that they have a lot to do. They obviously do. But on the other hand, two weeks on the forum, and also reading some elder forum posts, they havent been very responsive.
Because even if they arent crowd funding, for such a niche product as this, I believe it could be good to stay in regular contact. E.g. my pre-order decision is much based on potential shipping costs and also on what keyboard layouts they will offer in the end.
Anyway, I hope you are correct and that they will get more in touch when things have calmed down.
As doktor.oswaldo said, I too think they are more than busy with the hardware, and likely certifications of various types. And the whole project is at such a late state that only software is likely to change substantially. So any feedback for the hardware is too late to affect a Pro¹ and a bit early for any successors...
And on the software side it is my impression that they want to be as close to native Android as possible, so our wishes here are things that could be handled after release also, so not urgent for them to handle it now.
Do not get me wrong, I too am impatient and can't wait to get my dirty paws on the device. And I'm sure there will be a flood of feedback once the device is on the street,with suggestions of what could be done differently or additionally. But it is much more urgent to get the hardware out as planned, with stable software. Improvements of the software/firmware can be (relatively) easily handled at a later time.
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It would be better with some priority. As I got several I could use with little difference in preference - note we are talking PRINT only.
(To get the keys returning what matches the users preferences should be the easy part)
My priority for PRINT would be with estimated percentages
[ul]25 Danish
23 Scandinavian, (multi-print or any of Swe/Nor)
20 US (non-shifted)
15 German-QWERTZ
12 US All four rows shifted
5 US A-Z shifted only[/ul]
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Hey, don’t be ignorant, lol! It is NORDIC qwerty. :P There are other countries than Sweden, you know! Not sure about Island, but Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark all use the same qwerty-layout.
No, not trying to be mean, just a bit nitpicky. ;-)
Well Norway, Denmark and Sweden use ALMOST the same layout... (Norwegian as Swedish with different symbols Ä->Æ, Ö-> Ø, and Danish as Norwegian but with Æ/Ø swapped...). So for cheaper laptops we often see a common keyboard with three colours of letters on these three keys...
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I saw the video but I still have a question about the control of the phone just with the keyboard.
I have the following situation now on my BBPriv:
I am opening chrome to browse via hotkey. Now I have to touch the adressbar and then start typing. Will there a hotkey to be able to type directly the page I want to access? How about changing tabs. I don’t want to touch the Tab-Field and then chose which Tab I want to open. Or will there be the possibility to open a new tab with just the hardware keyboard. I know that this is was very app-specific but the question is quite general for every other app as well. Starting Spotify via shortcut. Do I have to touch the field I want to open, or could I navigate INSIDE the app with just the keyboard?
Could we see how this is managed on the pro1?
I have the same thoughts. To what degree are android basically possible to navigate in with keys only? Sure there are apps like the "Keyboard browser" that are specifically designed for a keyboard, But how are android UI in general, under the hood? Are there say tab-stops on all controls like MS Windows?
I know it is possible to navigate Android with a USB mouse (see e.g.
), so it DOES have the concept of a cursor build in, so at the lowest bar, some way to turn on the cursor and arrow/navigation could be possible. Though that might well be too slow and inconvenient in real usage, so I guess that would be a rather academic 'solution', and perhaps thus not worth the work to implement.When the Pro¹ is released, I hope we will have an active branch of this forum hinting at apps that works particularly well with a real keyboard.
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I accidentally ‘thanked’ your post,
New "Remove thanks" button, to handle accidental clicks. Nice :)
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They could name them in stead like “Fn” or “AltGr”.
Yeah I know I seem to be the only one to use “AltGr” but it is a must. There is a reason it is a different key than “alt” and removing a modifier key is always a pain. Keeping it close to the PC-Layout also means it will be easier to use a different OS.
It is much a matter of how the national layout is made. You almost never need it with a US layout. But In Danish you need the AltGr all the time to get to vital symbols such as
@ £ $ { [ ] } | € \and the accent key~And it is similar for other languages.
(But personally I could not care less if it is marked by a yellow arrow, "Fn", "AltGr" or whatever)
Actually the tedious frequent use is one of the reasons why I normally use the US layout (except when typing Danish text where we need ÆØÅ).
(Back in the eighties I made a completely customizable DOS keyboard driver, used to the effect of having a standard US layout, and ÆØÅ on their 'standard' positions combined with a modifier key, and a shortcut for quick language swap - that was the ideal layout for me, And it used way way less memory than the one provided with DOS)
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If you renamed them fn and alt, you’d just be duplicating keys that are already there, at least at the keyboard I’m looking at on the fxtec home page.
There is already an F- key which I assume you can use as a modifier for everything except # keys. And there’s already an ALT-key, which other than pulling up emoji when pressed by itself, can be used as a modifer for all the other keys. And the SYM-key that you can use as a modifier for national-letters/symbols/etc as described in the post before mine.
Do you really need a fourth modifier key?!? If it wasn’t there, then there would be space for the missing slash/questionmark key and no more need to use it, all keys (including numbers and synmbols) could then be their normal qwerty shift function. Are you really really sure you need that fourth modifier key, at the expense of it behaving like a regular keyboard instead?
Sorry meant "AltGr" not "Alt".
As I said, I hope for flexibility so those of us that wants a lot of modifier options can get it, and those that want more regular keys can get that too. I doubt they are hard wired to any function, so just a matter of the software allowing the flexibility.
I hope that the geeks among us can make several different 'packages' of layout-combinations, for sharing, and then each user can chose what fit them the best, and hopefully the program for it will be so easy to use so it does not require much skills to modify at will. Hopefully not even rooting.
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Sounds like you found a good use of that SYM key.
I strongly think you should get rid of those two diaganol arrow buttons . They don’t seem to serve any purpose. Shift functions of numbers and symbols should be accomplished with the Shift key like a real keyboard. Replace the one on the right with a slash/questiohmark dedicated key like a real keyboard.
That F-key is an additional modifier that perhaps could be user customized too unless there’s another purpose. F-key with the numbers should function as F1/F2 etc like a keyboard.
Uh please don't !!
I accidentally 'thanked' your post, but STRONGLY disagrees with the removal of the arrows. They could name them in stead like "Fn" or "AltGr"
"Alt", but I would like it to have all these 'modifier' keys, to allow us to have easy access to a variety of layouts.But If I have my way it will be possible to remap even modifier keys for direct usage, for those that like you would prefer this. I hope for maximal flexibility in how we can use the keys to fit each users wishes as much as possible.
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Confirm that Open Camera works (quite well) on Pro1
Awesome! :)
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I confirm that Camera2 API has already been opened and some build of GCam works on Pro1.
We are still improving the camera once we reach the next milestone we will publish some sample shots.
Have you tested "Open Camera"? A very flexible option relying on the Camera2 API (I'm using it on the S8-, and is quite satisfied with what it does)
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Respecfully disagree. As a messaging and communications device, I want it to be single-hand capable. And on the note of reading, novels and books are also portrait. It works even better with my gesture-capable keyboard, I can just flick the keyboard to flip pages.
I do see the appeal of a landscape device (I had a Nokia N810 myself), but NOT as a phone. As a terminal or remote desktop device it’s perfect, if you want a desktop-like experience, or if you’re consuming media (unless you’re stupid like Snapchat). Portrait and landscape both have their advantages, it comes down to use case.
PS: I actually hate phablets. The one thing I would change about my Priv is make it smaller but thicker.
Well sure I TOO would prefer a phone over a phablet any time EXACTLY due to it being one hand operable (that is the difference between a phone and a phablet in my book).
My point is that since all manufacturers seems to make (almost) only phablets, it is currently quite silly that it is not landscape that is the primary format for Android&Ios, and portrait the 'odd one' for the few remaining phone sized devices.
The ONLY chance I see for the return of phone sized devices is three part Z folded devices, and they are years away from being market ready, (the current foldable ones I see as just proof of concept)
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With my case put on, it gets really hard to put the finger in a valid position, since it has to lie flat on the area.
I got a case on the S8- too (to get the click-on keyboard) and that actually eases the use a bit reaching over, as the finger gets 'guided' by the hole to the right position. I fumble with it when the case is removed.
As preferring my right hand, I practically always hold my phones in the left hand, and that makes it quite awkward to reach with the left index finger, if I hold it in the right hand, the hole in the case does not have the suitable angle for the finger, so again reaching over the top is less bad.
But IF I held it in the right hand and IF I did not use a case, then it would have been in a good position...
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I’d never had a fingerprint sensor until moto z2 force (which I bought when keyboard mod was supposedly ready to ship) and am now used to using it to unlock the phone, and for the three android buttons after unlock, and find that useful. But to do that on the side of the phone seems like it might be awkward so seems to me unlikely it’d be as useful on the pro1.
Not sure how the pixel works, but on the moto z, after unlocking with fingerprint, tapping the fingerprint sensor is home button, swiping right is recent apps, swiping left is ‘back. My previous phone (Photon Q) those three buttons would appear on a bar overlaying the bottom of the screen (when needed/called).
So you’ve got me curious how pro1 will work, as it looks like there’s no buttons on the front.
Will be interesting to use it real usage.I got it on the back of the Samsung S8- and it is quite awkward to use. The least bad is to reach over from the top with the right hand index finger.
I actually think that it might be too easy to use on the side, so you will have the risk of accidentally authorising things you really would have cancelled.
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I quite like the design. However it is a marketing photo and as a such not reviewable. How does it look from the front?
I guess the bottom half of the phone has to be broader than the top half with the case on. This could look horrible.
You lost me there. Why should the two halves have different widths?
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I love this simple metal back. I’m kinda sick of these easily breakable glass backs.
Please don’t add rubber feet. I don’t think it will be comfortable to type on the Pro1 in a “laptop orientation” anyways. It would ruin the aesthetics and might make making a case impossible.
Rubber feet on a case might be a nice solution. :)
I would prefer a plain back too. But would prefer small rounded feet over wobbling around any 'camera protection'.
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It looks great. Personally I don’t mind if the trim around the camera protrudes a tiny bit, if it protudes past the camera glass it will prevent scratching the camera if sat on a flat surface. Ideally you’d put it in a case or stick some small rubber feet on to sit it on a desk anyway. Also I imagine one would mostly use the keyboard only when holding the device by means of thumbs due to the type of keys, and sitting the device down only for less interactive things like watching video.
I would MUCH prefer the back to come with the four corners with 'millings' with rounded rubber feet inserted that thus lifted the back and camera.
(For the purist wanting a completely flat back, they could offer additionally stickers that just filled the 'holes', not protruding.)
Camera2 API
in Pro1 - Thoughts & questions
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I don't think Sony make the driver for Google. But I assume they provide 'something' to let the manufacturer make their own driver.
My point is that there MIGHT be some fancy stuff in Googles driver that is proprietary, and competitors have to create their own variants.