EskeRahn 5,350 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 How about this one? <span class="image-overlay overlay-type-image" style="left: -5px; top: 0px; overflow: hidden; display: block; height: 414px; width: 746px;"><span class="image-overlay-inside"></span></span> Looks better. And even if PRINTED as YellowArrow (we almost need a BBCode for that one *LOL* ), the strokes of the ones on the second lowest and the top row could ALSO be made available by shift, to make the functionality closer to the PC-experience, that is in software let BOTH YellowArrow+8 and Shift+8 give the same "(". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
elvissteinjr 355 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 How about this one? <span class="image-overlay overlay-type-image"><span class="image-overlay-inside"></span></span> I like this. I'll pretend I helped. One little thing that comes to mind seeing German labels on this: The Caps Lock key looks a little bit out of place. Going with the German Feststelltaste obviously isn't an option since it's very long and would be odd anyways. What you typically see is a downwards arrow as a label instead, like this: ⇩ However, there isn't anything set in stone for this, so sometimes you have ⇪ instead. It looks like there are also some keyboard that have a German layout but keep English labels for some reason. I'd gravitate towards ⇩ as a label, since that's what I'm used to. In the end it's a bit of nitpicking though. What do you think? Oh and regarding the keyboard labels including QWERTY: I know the SYM key will probably get booted off as mentioned in another post, but just in case... don't you think it's kinda odd to have it be in all caps as the only label on the entire keyboard? Okay, enough of me nitpicking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
raphaelcno 21 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 It looks nice :-) I would just suggest to move the dash/minus sign a little higher on the key, otherwise it looks like the underscore sign: [attachment file=QWERTZ-201904092 - 2019-04-10_RCa.png] Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EskeRahn 5,350 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 This is the least bad I can do to make something that looks somewhat like a yellow arrow † key † Quote Link to post Share on other sites
_DW_ 628 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 What is "Strg"? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TeZtdevice 237 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 What is “Strg”? The keyboard button in German for Ctrl Quote Link to post Share on other sites
_DW_ 628 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 DW wrote: What is “Strg”? The keyboard button in German for Ctrl My German is limited I am afraid! My classes obviously didn't go that far :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EskeRahn 5,350 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 My German is limited I am afraid! My classes obviously didn’t go that far :D *LOL* Same here we both lack "German abbreviations I". My first thought was "Strange" *LOL* (it stands for "Steuerung" though - etymologically same word as English "steering") Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wheeljack 207 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 I've heard enough Germans falsely call it "String" ... so no worries ;) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waxberry 638 Posted April 11, 2019 Author Share Posted April 11, 2019 [attachment file=12588] Made the positioning change of "-" sign Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jacob_S 128 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 It is really cool tro see how you're implementing more and more design wishes =) As someone already pointed out: It would still be nice if there was a downward arrow instead of Caps. [attachment file=12599] And as also someone said before: If the SYM button stays it would look better if the print was reading Sym instead of the all caps version. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EskeRahn 5,350 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 And as also someone said before: If the SYM button stays it would look better if the print was reading Sym instead of the all caps version. Agree on that one, it just looks odd in my eyes, also on the QWERTY. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waxberry 638 Posted April 11, 2019 Author Share Posted April 11, 2019 How about this suggestion? What's your opinions? Regarding Caps using the pointing down arrow... Is that a common one on German language / keyboard? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
elvissteinjr 355 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 How about this suggestion? What’s your opinions? This guy's change makes no sense to me. He moved # to FN+3 and removed § for no reason. This deviates from QWERTZ and I don't see why you would do that, especially removing a symbol. Regarding Caps using the pointing down arrow… Is that a common one on German language / keyboard? I brought it up anyways, but yeah, I'd say this is fairly common. I went browsing keyboards to confirm my experience and the majority has something like that, some a diffferent kind of arrow and a few say "Caps" or even "Capslk". This varies between brands and even within the same brand sometimes. So as I said it's not a dealbreaker but perhaps worth considering. The German norm DIN 2137 describing German QWERTZ appears to use the downwards arrow as it's most common, but I can't confirm that since you can't read that without buying it. But I'm repeating myself. This is nitpicking territory imo. Current version is already very good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EskeRahn 5,350 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Regarding Caps using the pointing down arrow… Is that a common one on German language / keyboard? I think there are many variants, not limited to German Here is another one The aPple guys seem to like this variant The REASON for the at first odd arrow down stems back from the time of typewriters, before the up arrow was used for Shift, and Shift-Lock was a key that physically stayed down, and forced the whole set of arms to shift up, so we got the lower symbol of each hammer when hitting the roll, and thus had the upper case letters AND the symbols on the number keys active. See e.g. this (the shift lock was released pressing shift) ADD: And BTW this is also why the term "Shift" is used as it shifted the whole set of arms, and was held up while holding it pressing one of the shift-keys with a pinky. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doktor Oswaldo 901 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 <span class="image-overlay overlay-type-image" style="left: -5px; top: 0px; overflow: hidden; display: block; height: 299px; width: 541px;"><span class="image-overlay-inside"></span></span> Made the positioning change of “-” sign <twitter-widget class="twitter-tweet twitter-tweet-rendered" id="twitter-widget-0" style="position: static; visibility: visible; display: block; transform: rotate(0deg); max-width: 100%; width: 550px; min-width: 220px; margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px;" data-tweet-id="1116404998093647872"></twitter-widget> https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js How about this suggestion? What’s your opinions? Regarding Caps using the pointing down arrow… Is that a common one on German language / keyboard? Capslock is also very common in German-based layouts. I as a Swiss am used to the capslock not the arrow. I would not bother with that and just go for capslock on all keyboards. But that is just my personal opinion. One question to the suggested Layout: Why is the order of the brackets like that: { [ ] } and not like thath { } [ ]. It is not a big problem but seems rather special. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TeZtdevice 237 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 +1 for Arrow down instead "Caps" Btw, I personnally prefer SYM, ALT, STRG, ENT, ESC as all caps version :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EskeRahn 5,350 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Btw, I personnally prefer SYM, ALT, STRG, ENT, ESC as all caps version :-) Personally do not mind if they use Sym/SYM/sym, as long as it is the same format on all the keys with text. I don't like a mix like "Strg"+"SYM" :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mosen 201 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 DW wrote: My German is limited I am afraid! My classes obviously didn’t go that far :D *LOL* Same here we both lack “German abbreviations I”. My first thought was “Strange” *LOL* (it stands for “Steuerung” though – etymologically same word as English “steering”) Actually, steering is Lenkung (used for vehicles). Steuerung is control. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EskeRahn 5,350 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Actually, steering is Lenkung (used for vehicles). Oh, sorry if I was unclear: Etymologically the same, and also etymologically the same as the Danish variant "Styring", that in Danish can be used both for steering and control (Though we also have "Kontrol", but that is leaning more towards checking than handling). It is so funny how words that some time back in history have been the same can slowly change differently in different languages or dialects. Yes, I have a soft spot for etymology :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EskeRahn 5,350 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 ...And getting a little more off topic, look at the texts "UMSHALTER" und "FESTSTELLER" for "Shift" and "Shift lock" on this old Swizz typewriter (from here) We better have symbols *LOL* Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EskeRahn 5,350 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 One question to the suggested Layout: Why is the order of the brackets like that: { [ ] } and not like thath { } [ ]. It is not a big problem but seems rather special. Below a crop from a PC QWERTZ keyboards, so it is to get close to that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mosen 201 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Yes, I have a soft spot for etymology :) Only ignorant people do not <3 "Kontrolle" or the verb "kontrollieren" in german has a subset meaning that would cover the function of the "control" button but is not used like this in german. The supervise/check/monitor meaning is the dominant as in danish as i now learned from you. Steuerung is not even perfect though, the function would need the verb "steuern" to make complete sense. The english control is also the verb form but makes no difference. Most people even say "steuer + V" when meaning "Steuerung + V". Concluding in Str/STR/str would be the most appropriate nerdy but uncommon solution. Imo "Die Steuerung" suggests a whole controlpanel/steering-device/controlunit and is slightly since forever. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mosen 201 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 We better have symbols *LOL* Yep. Agreed. Preventing the "denglish" mix up when using shift and caps/caplk side by side with strg/entf was the reason for me taking action and critize the first version Chen posted on twitter. The word Umschalten is super hard to shorten. Umschlt or Umslt read hilariously in german and are not much shorter. I am all for full symbol use where possible. And like you said, please no mix up in cases. My favourite would be all small caps since all of them are verbs(?) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dreamflasher 120 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 +1 for ⇩ instead of "caps". And I am strongly in favor of having strg/alt/sym in the same format, with a slight preference for all lowercase. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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