QWERTZ User Layout Setup

[Swond 120]

20 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

Let us see if we can not persuade Anssi to make the one he made for Czech for the physical qwertY in a variant for the qwertZ too,

....You might help persuading him by 'giving  a beer' with the donate button. 😇

Definitely good Idea. I wanted to do that later, but.. There is indeed nothing to wait for. Thanks for a hint, Eske! Well.. I was very suprised when I found out that a czech layout has been done! Thats a miracle! And great preparation for the next step-qwertz variant. I dont know what persuades him to make this layout, but I am very happy and thankfull for that :)

[EskeRahn 5,455]

55 minutes ago, Swond said:

Definitely good Idea. I wanted to do that later, but.. There is indeed nothing to wait for. Thanks for a hint, Eske! Well.. I was very suprised when I found out that a czech layout has been done! Thats a miracle! And great preparation for the next step-qwertz variant. I dont know what persuades him to make this layout, but I am very happy and thankfull for that 🙂

He seems to be an extremely kind and helpful guy. Super responsive to all the small ideas and suggestions I have come up with, Perfecting the Danish for qwertY as well as qwertZ, and as far as I know, he has not even received his own unit yet.

[Anssi Hannula 16]

39 minutes ago, Swond said:

Definitely good Idea. I wanted to do that later, but.. There is indeed nothing to wait for. Thanks for a hint, Eske! Well.. I was very suprised when I found out that a czech layout has been done! Thats a miracle! And great preparation for the next step-qwertz variant. I dont know what persuades him to make this layout, but I am very happy and thankfull for that 🙂

I can add one in the next FinQwerty version 🙂

Does the below layout look OK? Or should I perhaps swap Y/Z (if both are wanted by people here, I can also add both), or any other suggestions?

[EskeRahn 5,455]

9 minutes ago, Anssi Hannula said:

I can add one in the next FinQwerty version 🙂

Does the below layout look OK? Or should I perhaps swap Y/Z (if both are wanted by people here, I can also add both), or any other suggestions?

Damned you are fast! 😎😎😎

[Swond 120]

Wow that was fast! Will check that later, not enough time to check it calmly. Thanks anyway! 

[Swond 120]

4 hours ago, Anssi Hannula said:

I can add one in the next FinQwerty version 🙂

Does the below layout look OK? Or should I perhaps swap Y/Z (if both are wanted by people here, I can also add both), or any other suggestions?

Well, lets focus on this 🙂 Looks good, just few improvements would be great if I can ask you for them. I think that both QWERTZ and QWERTY would be nice, but mostly QWERTZ will be used as the national keyboard is also QWERTZ. Definitely would be gr8 to change "[" and "]" positions from "i+o" to "f+g" keys, where it is usuallly placed in CZE. (sorry, now I realised thet these keys respects a german printout, so would be more reliable to leave it as it is.). Hmm.. Where the "1/2" symbol at "h" key did come up? Did you find it at some czech layout or does it comes from german?

 I am sure @CornholioGSM and @cube48 would help to resolve this out. Guys? would you please look at the layout and share your opinion? Here is the final printout for german QWERTZ to compare with. IMHO @Anssi Hannula´s  (Kiitos paljon!!) changes will be all right. Another improvements can be discussed when we try the phone. Maybe something will be odd and few perfections will be needed same as @EskeRahn had to figure out.

Thanks everybody in advance.

[Anssi Hannula 16]

19 minutes ago, Swond said:

Well, lets focus on this 🙂 Looks good, just few improvements would be great if I can ask you for them. I think that both QWERTZ and QWERTY would be nice, but mostly QWERTZ will be used as the national keyboard is also QWERTZ. Definitely would be gr8 to change "[" and "]" positions from "i+o" to "f+g" keys, where it is usuallly placed in CZE. (sorry, now I realised thet these keys respects a german printout, so would be more reliable to leave it as it is.). Hmm.. Where the "1/2" symbol at "h" key did come up? Did you find it at some czech layout or does it comes from german?

OK, so based on this I should have 4 Czech layouts? (Czech QWERTY for physical QWERTY, Czech QWERTZ for physical QWERTY, Czech QWERTY for physical QWERTZ, and Czech QWERTZ for physical QWERTZ)
I can do that relatively easily, I just don't want to add layouts that are not useful 🙂

The Fn+H = ½ comes from the FinQwerty German layout that I used as a base, not from any "real" layout. It can be replaced if/when needed.
And yes, I kept the Fn combinations matching the German QWERTZ prints, I think that is generally clearer.
But since Fn+F and Fn+G are free, I could add [ ] there as well if so wanted.

[Swond 120]

2 hours ago, Anssi Hannula said:

OK, so based on this I should have 4 Czech layouts? (Czech QWERTY for physical QWERTY, Czech QWERTZ for physical QWERTY, Czech QWERTY for physical QWERTZ, and Czech QWERTZ for physical QWERTZ)
I can do that relatively easily, I just don't want to add layouts that are not useful 🙂

The Fn+H = ½ comes from the FinQwerty German layout that I used as a base, not from any "real" layout. It can be replaced if/when needed.
And yes, I kept the Fn combinations matching the German QWERTZ prints, I think that is generally clearer.
But since Fn+F and Fn+G are free, I could add [ ] there as well if so wanted.

I see, I see. Well, I am more than fine just with QWERTZ-QWERTZ variant, but I ve seen that @cube48 has physical QWERTY device,and not sure what physical keyboard @CornholioGSM has. So if I can speak just for myself, then I would appreciate Czech QWERTZ for physical QWERTZ 🙂

Thanks for other symbol clarification. Yes, indeed, I agree with leaving printed symbols when they are, but the idea of [ ] at  F+G sounds good to me. Then I would wait for other improvements when we can try it on the phone.

[CornholioGSM 323]

...i have ordered qwerty variant...all of my keyboards are english so i have problem with swapped YtoZ 🙂

[VaZso 1,998]

32 minutes ago, CornholioGSM said:

all of my keyboards are english so i have problem with swapped YtoZ

Not really if the layout is QWERTY so despite of where Z and Y are printed, you may still use QWERTY positions.

However, I dislike the shifted QWERTY keyboard and that was the only reason of choosing the QWERTZ variant.

[Anssi Hannula 16]

I'll just add all 4 combinations so everyone can get either Czech Y/Z order regardless of which HW layout they have 🙂

[Swond 120]

 Thank you very much. Going to pay you a beer :) 

 

 

E: done, just dont know how the Karhu price changed since this summer

Edited December 29, 2019 by Swond
Confirmation

[Doktor Oswaldo 904]

On 12/27/2019 at 8:21 PM, EskeRahn said:

That wont help much, as this is the Latin based letters only, not the Cyrrilic ones.

That is indeed a point 😄

[Machaka 1]

Just adding to the discussion, Im Czech, IT help on an university and some companies and I can assure you 99,9% of Czechs uses qwertZ variant. I didnt even know know qwerty is still a thing, havent seen it anywhere in 30years.

[silversolver 849]

On 12/28/2019 at 7:54 PM, Anssi Hannula said:

I'll just add all 4 combinations so everyone can get either Czech Y/Z order regardless of which HW layout they have 🙂

You are a very giving person, and while I don't expect to benefit from it, I am still grateful that people like you exist to make the world a kinder, more helpful place.

Also, am I just a dumb 'Merican, or have previous people observed the similarity between your name and ANSI? Your involvement with keyboards and characters makes it that much more amusing to me. Some of you will understand this picture LOL

[EskeRahn 5,455]

On 12/29/2019 at 1:54 AM, Anssi Hannula said:

I'll just add all 4 combinations so everyone can get either Czech Y/Z order regardless of which HW layout they have 🙂

As I read it the qwertZ are what is expected for Czech. But a third variant with qwertY for the qwertY hardware could be argued to match the print. But a Czech qwertY for the qwertZ print I doubt anyone would use.

[Craig 1,435]

13 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

As I read it the qwertZ are what is expected for Czech. But a third variant with qwertY for the qwertY hardware could be argued to match the print. But a Czech qwertY for the qwertZ print I doubt anyone would use.

I'm just an observer, who sees one guy said 99.99% of Czech ppls use qwertz.  But one prominent (in the keyboard phone community at least) Czech said he has always used qwerty.  So, perhaps if that kinda buy bought a qwertz variant locally but wanted to use qwerty layout on it, that kinda person would be glad it was included in FinQwerty.

[Swond 120]

Indeed @Craig, you are a good observer! Andyou are right. Well lets say there is one guy at this forum, who ordered qwertz and going to use qwerty layout. But this means at least one guy. Whether one is not at the forum does not mean there is noone else outside. And I can understand it. 99.9% people will use qwertz cz layout. But more experienced users (eg coders etc) are using qwerty cz layout. Its easier to use for code and they still have the advantage of our language specific characters when actualy not coding, but having fun for example. The fact why they would order a physical qwertz instead of shifted qwerty is their choice. And its understandable. So I am very gratefull for @silversolver's words. I am also very happy that we have such a modest finnish guy between us. I have to say that I like finnish nationality exactly because of this kindness. And I would reccomend all of you, who are interrested - follow me and donate him a beer or more, because he is definitely not going to ask for it himself. I am 100% sure. :)

[VaZso 1,998]

47 minutes ago, Swond said:

Well lets say there is one guy at this forum, who ordered qwertz and going to use qwerty layout. But this means at least one guy. Whether one is not at the forum does not mean there is noone else outside.

I am also do the same.

However, I would like to find a method to modify layout without rooting as I would like to use a somewhat modified layout of national characters but keep of QWERTY as much as possible, so it would be not a standard layout. I see the source code of FinQWERTY is on Github, maybe the simplest way would be to modify that package...

[silversolver 849]

10 hours ago, Swond said:

Indeed @Craig, you are a good observer! Andyou are right. Well lets say there is one guy at this forum, who ordered qwertz and going to use qwerty layout. But this means at least one guy. Whether one is not at the forum does not mean there is noone else outside. And I can understand it. 99.9% people will use qwertz cz layout. But more experienced users (eg coders etc) are using qwerty cz layout. Its easier to use for code and they still have the advantage of our language specific characters when actualy not coding, but having fun for example. The fact why they would order a physical qwertz instead of shifted qwerty is their choice. And its understandable. So I am very gratefull for @silversolver's words. I am also very happy that we have such a modest finnish guy between us. I have to say that I like finnish nationality exactly because of this kindness. And I would reccomend all of you, who are interrested - follow me and donate him a beer or more, because he is definitely not going to ask for it himself. I am 100% sure. :)

Finns aren't known for starting wars, but they are getting quite a reputation as programmers. Also for being very entertaining with hydraulic presses. :P If I ever go to Europe again, I need to visit Finland.

[FBela 23]

9 hours ago, VaZso said:

I am also do the same.

However, I would like to find a method to modify layout without rooting as I would like to use a somewhat modified layout of national characters but keep of QWERTY as much as possible, so it would be not a standard layout. I see the source code of FinQWERTY is on Github, maybe the simplest way would be to modify that package...

I think if you can provide the layout, @Anssi Hannula can add the 4 combinations for Hungarian layout as he did it with Czech version, too... 

[VaZso 1,998]

16 minutes ago, FBela said:

I think if you can provide the layout, @Anssi Hannula can add the 4 combinations for Hungarian layout as he did it with Czech version, too... 

I think a non-standard layout (which I would like to make) would not be useful for others.

However, a standard Hungarian layout is another question.

[silversolver 849]

20 hours ago, VaZso said:

I think a non-standard layout (which I would like to make) would not be useful for others.

However, a standard Hungarian layout is another question.

This raises the question, to which I don't know the answer, is the layout creator program something which could be shared so that end users can create their own custom layouts and import/share them? @Anssi Hannula has been doing amazing work on this himself, but perhaps he would be open to sharing the layout creator so community development is also possible.

[VaZso 1,998]

26 minutes ago, silversolver said:

This raises the question, to which I don't know the answer, is the layout creator program something which could be shared so that end users can create their own custom layouts and import/share them? @Anssi Hannula has been doing amazing work on this himself, but perhaps he would be open to sharing the layout creator so community development is also possible.

I don't know if special layout creator program exists but these are human-readable files so practically they can be modified but it also needs some time and effort. 🙂

Edited January 5, 2020 by VaZso

[EskeRahn 5,455]

3 hours ago, silversolver said:

This raises the question, to which I don't know the answer, is the layout creator program something which could be shared so that end users can create their own custom layouts and import/share them? @Anssi Hannula has been doing amazing work on this himself, but perhaps he would be open to sharing the layout creator so community development is also possible.

I haven't been looking at the files, but please note that he has even put it up openly as open source on github. See the links here