Pro¹ X – state of production and delivery

[EskeRahn 5,460]

15 hours ago, VaZso said:

They have just released another update here:

Link

Maybe I'm a bit pessimistic by nature, but to me what they describe with "As a worst-case scenario...", to me sounds more like "As a more realistic and less optimistic scenario..." - I can certainly think of way worse scenarios than start of shipping within two months, with the damned Covid and Chinese new year as likely obstacles.

But happy new year to everyone, none the less. 🎆

[Rob. S. 1,661]

Yes, a happy new year to all! Or like the toast was in my house last night: "f*ck 2021"!

By the way, there is a new product coming from F(x)Tec which I only learned about today through the Vimeo username from which the Pro1X video clips were posted. It's called the Linxdot Helium Hotspot, which seems to be a device that, in starting it up, becomes part of a LoRaWAN (low-power wide area network) based wireless network infrastructure. The owner then is rewarded with "Helium Network Tokens" ($HNT) which is a cryptocurrency, depending on how much coverage the device provides within that network. (At least that's what I understood; I'm not into cryptocurrencies myself in any way.)

[PanicBrothers 66]

On 1/1/2022 at 3:34 PM, Rob. S. said:

By the way, there is a new product coming from F(x)Tec

it is better to pay your debts first before doing new things

[Rob. S. 1,661]

28 minutes ago, PanicBrothers said:

it is better to pay your debts first before doing new things

Definitely! But with only one product that had to be delayed again and again for mostly no reasons of your own, with what would you pay your debts?

Using the delay to design and market something else, potentially with a good profit margin, too, thereby hoping to keep your company afloat, actually might be the best option for enabling you to finally pay those debts.

[VaZso 1,998]

37 minutes ago, Rob. S. said:

Definitely! But with only one product that had to be delayed again and again for mostly no reasons of your own, with what would you pay your debts?

Using the delay to design and market something else, potentially with a good profit margin, too, thereby hoping to keep your company afloat, actually might be the best option for enabling you to finally pay those debts.

Right - for example, if electrical design of Pro1-X seems to be done (which is the case hopefully), they can move to an other product without affecting Pro1's future development.
If Pro1-X is mechanically complete, engineers may design something else mechanically.

That way a company may keep its employees and make profit with something else when development of a product has been finished.
Also that would mean a development of a future phone would be easier if you could keep your employees...

Basically development of Pro1-X should has been already finished and manufacturing it the actual question.

[EskeRahn 5,460]

9 hours ago, VaZso said:

That way a company may keep its employees and make profit with something else when development of a product has been finished.

Indeed
Even though the company is small, it is not that everyone can do anything. So it make a lot of sense to make people doing something (potentially) profitable and not just sit around waiting.

[VaZso 1,998]

32 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

Indeed
Even though the company is small, it is not that everyone can do anything. So it make a lot of sense to make people doing something (potentially) profitable and not just sit around waiting.

Right, that was what I have tried to point at.

So an electrical engineer can do schematics and PCB design and microcontroller programming (but not every electrical engineers do all of them and the same level) and a mechanical engineer may do assembly-related designs (including the whole body) and modifications and usually high level software is also related to another team.

It is not necessarily work this way but these are different professions and one territory may need specialists like designing multi-layer, high frequency PCB needs a special knowledge and correct antenna design needs another special knowledge.

However, designing of manufacturing process, communicating with manufacturer needs another person/team while also logistics should be handled.

Additionally, helpdesk usually needs another type of human.
So if a helpdesk may contain people of the first groups above that may (but not necessarily) cause communication problems and may also cause this kind of people to left the company if they have to do high amount of this task.

Oh, and a project needs somebody (a leader) who keeps the project and its members together.

If speaking about a small company, some teams may also do other things but specialists are needed if one would like to design a good product and this may result in communication problems for example.
...so a developer may has high knowledge about something but not necessarily knows what and how to communicate a related question with customer and may not has correct communication skills and patience to correctly handle them...

[pebert 98]

 

On 1/1/2022 at 3:34 PM, Rob. S. said:

By the way, there is a new product coming from F(x)Tec...

I think that is a really important well choosen decision they made. 

1. The first, most obvious reason, is what already been compiled here, something needs to bring money in to the company for financing the RnD. 

2. I believe it's a strategically wise decision to implement other kind of products to the company portfolio. The brand will be more known and when you are operating in different business areas you are not so sensible for ups'n downs in the market. 

 3. LoRaWAN is really a hot topic right now, its a technology the really grows on the market. It's a technology mainly (if not exclusively) targeting the IoT industry, which at the moment is a constantly growing technology. 

 

4. Maybe (hopefully) there will be some kind of LoRaWAN implementation in upcoming models from F(x)Tec. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EskeRahn 5,460]

On 12/28/2021 at 7:50 AM, EskeRahn said:

Yup. The keys are just as real as on e.g. the Pro1. They are transparent, and right under them is an e-ink display, I bought one just to have it. I have considered to buy one of the defective ones you can get on ebay for $20 just to take it apart... But shipping and customs would add some $40, so have been too stingy.... Add: Just ordered one anyway....
(See e.g. this for images and a video)

Got it today, and took it apart, in an irreparable way.
It is clearly one contiguous display., with a click-mat on top, that years back were transparent (...yuck it was gross beneath the metal frame on top...).

[brunoais 334]

I wonder if the Pro2 could actually be that way... With an e-ink display under transparent keys 😍

[claude0001 1,341]

I very much enjoy the discussions here, and hope that also F(x)tec uses them for inspiration on future projects.

But considering the features of a hypothetical Pro2, I think we should also be realistic: The Pro1/Pro1-X are very expensive phones even without including exotic technologies like e-ink-keyboards. I think 1000 €/$ are a magical landmark, where even enthusiastic keyboard-phone lovers will have a hard time convincing their spouses that they really need that device.  

A Pro2 should probably focus on getting an up-to-date flagship SoC and improve on the known shortcomings of its predecessor(s). For the Pro1 those are (imho and in order of decreasing severity): main camera quality, keyboard quirks, telephony audio quality, and wifi signal strength. Possibly, the Pro1-X will improve significantly on some of these points, so that it should serve as the new benchmark for an all-out re-implementation of the concept.

Edited January 13, 2022 by claude0001

[Hook 3,021]

3 hours ago, claude0001 said:

I very much enjoy the discussions here, and hope that also F(x)tec uses them for inspiration on future projects.

But considering the features of a hypothetical Pro2, I think we should also be realistic: The Pro1/Pro1-X are very expensive phones even without including exotic technologies like e-ink-keyboards. I think 1000 €/$ are a magical landmark, where even enthusiastic keyboard-phone lovers will have a hard time convincing their spouses that they really need that device.  

A Pro2 should probably focus on getting an up-to-date flagship SoC and improve on the known shortcomings of its predecessor(s). For the Pro1 those are (imho and in order of decreasing severity): main camera quality, keyboard quirks, telephony audio quality, and wifi signal strength. Possibly, the Pro1-X will improve significantly on some of these points, so that it should serve as the new benchmark for an all-out re-implementation of the concept.

Wait. What? We have to convince our spouse??

[VaZso 1,998]

5 hours ago, claude0001 said:

A Pro2 should probably focus on getting an up-to-date flagship SoC and improve on the known shortcomings of its predecessor(s). For the Pro1 those are (imho and in order of decreasing severity): main camera quality, keyboard quirks, telephony audio quality, and wifi signal strength. Possibly, the Pro1-X will improve significantly on some of these points, so that it should serve as the new benchmark for an all-out re-implementation of the concept.

Anyway, main camera quality is very good if GCam is the application which handles its data, so it may be a software issue with stock camera which is not really good.

I hope telephony audio quality will be better on Pro1-X.
I currently don't really have audio quality issues here but sometimes other party complains about it is being too silent and there are definitively better phones in audio quality at the far side.

What they should have been solved also on Pro1 but I hope will be solved on Pro1-X is the loudspeaker driving the wrong speaker which is next to its main microphone which causes loudspeaker to be not really good in quality.

What is also need to be solved (and should be solved also on Pro1) is the microphone handling in general.
There is no option I have found to disable noise filtering which causes it can only record usable videos when an external microphone is attached, otherwise noise filtering comes in after around 2-3 seconds of delay.
It is very frustrating as the first 1-2 seconds is good but it is unusable for video recording without external mic.

I don't find WiFi signal poor but Pro1-X antenna system was redesigned so it may be better.

What I would like to see in a later Pro2 device is a more recent SoC with 5G capability and 2 SIM + MicroSD simultaneous use (also eSIM support would help).

[claude0001 1,341]

6 hours ago, VaZso said:

[...] and should be solved also on Pro1 [...]

You are right, but let's not further misuse this thread for discussing known issues of the original Pro1 (again).

Lineage may be able to fix a few more things on the Pro1, but I think we have to accept the fact that, from F(x)tec's perspective, that one is done. Any software issues related to the binary blobs will not be fixed. Imho, we will be lucky to even get spare parts for components unique to the Pro1.

Let's see how the Pro1-X comes out and how long F(x)tec plan to keep it available for purchase. If it improves on some of the issues already in the first production batch, and if they are willing to keep fixing remaining bugs in later batches, the Pro1-X may end up having a quite long product life before a Pro2 becomes necessary.

[VaZso 1,998]

34 minutes ago, claude0001 said:

You are right, but let's not further misuse this thread for discussing known issues of the original Pro1 (again).

It is a starting point for Pro1-X, some of them are software (blobs)-related - "this part" should be open for development on Pro1-X so definitively these should be addressed on Pro1-X.

36 minutes ago, claude0001 said:

Any software issues related to the binary blobs will not be fixed.

Right, that is what only F(x)tec could modify but that means their partner and they need money, I am afraid also Google certification needs money if they make some related modification...
I have a bad feeling about microphone noise filtering anyway.

39 minutes ago, claude0001 said:

Let's see how the Pro1-X comes out and how long F(x)tec plan to keep it available for purchase. If it improves on some of the issues already in the first production batch, and if they are willing to keep fixing remaining bugs in later batches, the Pro1-X may end up having a quite long product life before a Pro2 becomes necessary.

Right, that should be their goal.
I really hope they can make it constantly available as components shortage still can cause manufacturing problems later.

[claude0001 1,341]

18 hours ago, Hook said:

Wait. What? We have to convince our spouse??

I know you are joking, but I meant that quite seriously.

My wife brings home half of the family income, but, for some reason, I thought I need a phone that is 10x more expensive than hers (while having worse audio quality 😉 ). Of course I explained to her why I wanted that Pro1 so badly before throwing all that money at a company that, even then, I was not sure would be able to deliver at all. If you manage your entire household from a common financial pool, it is imho a question of mutual respect to discuss major expenses prior to engagement -- especially if they are about what most people will see as a luxury item ... 

Back on topic: I think F(x)tec have shown that, with the Pro1, they can fulfil the demand of a certain niche marked. However, we have also seen that, already now, they are plagued by problems typical for a small-volume manufacturer: uncertain supply chains, lacking quality assurance, need to source second-choice hardware (uncalibrated screens).

If, by trying to include too many fancy new ideas (adaptive keyboards), F(x)tec push the price of the individual device further up, their already niche marked will shrink, which will further aggravate their problems. So I think this is really not the way to go.

Rather, they should build on what they have achieved, and incrementally improve the (after all) successful concept of a smartphone the Pro1 is. That's what the big players, mostly, do too.  

Edited January 14, 2022 by claude0001

[Slion 1,201]

On 1/14/2022 at 2:24 AM, Hook said:

Wait. What? We have to convince our spouse??

Only had to convince mine to move out 🤣

[pebert 98]

On 1/14/2022 at 2:24 AM, Hook said:

Wait. What? We have to convince our spouse??

Yhe WAF  is a important part. According to a study made by Consumer Electronics Association (CEA) the wife is controlling 88% of the electronic purchases, either directly by buying it herself or, as in the majority of the cases, indirectly by "mind fucking", black mailing or in other manners manipulatibg and controlling her husband. 

 

 

[Hook 3,021]

3 hours ago, pebert said:

Yhe WAF  is a important part. According to a study made by Consumer Electronics Association (CEA) the wife is controlling 88% of the electronic purchases, either directly by buying it herself or, as in the majority of the cases, indirectly by "mind fucking", black mailing or in other manners manipulatibg and controlling her husband. 

 

 

I was, of course, half  joking.  But, actually, I guess Mrs. Hook and I are just different from a lot of folks.  She has her money and I have my money.  We share expenses (proportional to differences in income), both contribute to savings, but we each spend our money as we like after that.  She has her obsessions and I have mine. 😉

[zundappchef 100]

what is the status on the phone ? are we any closer to it being shipped then 2021 or 2020 ?
im so glad that last year i decided to purchase another phone 
because the pro 1 x should have been delivered already 1 year ago  and we were waiting for a hot min back then already
i mean i gave up on getting the phone ever , but does not hurt to complain about it every once in a while 

[Rob. S. 1,661]

3 hours ago, zundappchef said:

what is the status on the phone ?

That was the December update; expect the one for January on Monday... 

[DieBruine 397]

Backers of the engraved edition received an email to send their logo's in before the 12th of February. That could mean I would receive my Pro1X before my original Pro1 is repaired and returned to me 🥲 (September '21).

Edited January 31, 2022 by DieBruine
Logo's and date

[Rob. S. 1,661]

On 1/29/2022 at 10:39 PM, Rob. S. said:

That was the December update; expect the one for January on Monday... 

Looks like this time they actually didn't manage to post the update on time. Comments on IGG are not getting more sympathetic... 😳

Edited February 1, 2022 by Rob. S.

[UKAndyWest 14]

I completely sympathise with the sentiments on IGG!  These people invested in a company that has so far delivered nothing in return.

Crowdfunding has always struck me as witchcraft so I just bought my 1-X as a consumer last April with an advertised August shipping.  When I chased them late last year, apart from the blatant spin, one of the things I was fobbed-off with was to follow their updates on IGG.

In production or not, unless I get an update that is to my liking by the end of this week I'll be getting my money back and walking. 

Whilst I still want the phone with a keyboard, I have nothing positive to say abouth FxTec.

 

[claude0001 1,341]

2 hours ago, Rob. S. said:

Comments on IGG

I like most the ones that tell me F(x)tec is a fake company and that my Pro1 does not exist. 🙃

Thinking that through, it follows that we in this forum as well as all other people publishing Pro1 videos on the web, discussing bugs and hardware issues, making custom ROMs, etc., are just actors hired to distract from the fact that Fxtec have long moved to the Caribbean where they spend their backer's money on expensive cigars. One wonders if setting up such an elaborate smoke screen would really be easier (or cheaper) than just producing the phone after all ...