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16 hours ago, Gigadoc2 said:

So, this Android Authority review is kind of fair in the regards that you shouldn't buy a Pro1 unless you want it for that keyboard

I think this sums it all up really precisely. 👍

For some the keyboard is a less used part of a phone, and they can let do with the touch surrogate keyboards, to get a lesser device. Others want a real keyboard, but are more depending on the many apps only optimised for portrait, and for those the BB Priv or BB Key½ are more optimal. And a minority that types a lot, we prefer a keyboard in the right direction, but still also being able to use it as a dumb slab. And this is the niche where the Pro1 fits.

And of course this is a continuous spectrum. There are no perfect phone for everyone, It is a matter of finding what fits each of us the best. Let us have variety

Those that only typing for entering in search-keywords for Youtube the Pro1 would be a monster. Just like we in the other end cry over the horrific experience with the lack of a keyboard on a slab. To each his/her/... own.

 

BUT it show a bad narrow-minded reviewer not to be able to see that not all users are like themselves....
It is a bit like reviewing a children film from an adult perspective or vice versa.
A GOOD review tells if something is good at delivering what it attempts to do to the intended audience.

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16 hours ago, Gigadoc2 said:

Sorry, but that is just nerding out over specs. And if this review is targeted to regular users (which it seems to be apart from this), nerding out over specs has no place in it. I know, firsthand, that a Wileyfox Swift, a Phone from 2015 with a Snapdragon 410 and 2 GB of memory, can run Android 9 just fine, completely without hiccups. So, if the Pro1 runs slow it is definitively an issue for the normal user, but don't make it look like it is an unfixable hardware issue, because it is not. If a phone is arm64 and has 3GB memory or more, it is fine from a performance perspective. You could rightfully argue though that it will be harder to get updates from Qualcomm for an "old" chipset.

I think the same. Snapdragon 835 is still at the same level with 730 or 730G on performance. CPU is little bit behind 730G but GPU is more powerful. Of course, it is not as power-efficient as newer 730G but very good anyway (10nm node). Also, Google Pixel 2 uses same chipset than Pro1 and Google has guaranteed to update Pixel 2 to Android R (or 11). Android updates are not tied to chipset manufacturer support anymore since Project Treble came in. There are other changes as well. The Linux Long-Term Support is now 6 years instead of 2 years. In my opinion, Snapdragon 835 was very good selection if it was necessary to save costs.

https://www.xda-developers.com/linux-kernel-long-term-support-google/


- "Google has managed to get the Linux Foundation to agree to extend the support life of the Linux Long-Term Support (LTS) kernel branch from the 2 years that it has historically lasted, to 6 years for future versions of the LTS kernel, starting with Linux kernel 4.4."

https://www.androidpolice.com/2017/09/30/linux-kernels-long-term-support-releases-now-last-6-years-thats-good-android/


- "This change to LTS support lengths means that, in the future, your devices might live a bit longer. When a chipset manufacturer like Qualcomm starts designing a SoC (and the software that goes with it), that chipset and its associated software will have a longer 6-year shelf-life. Combined with Project Treble, it means a device could continue to receive updates for much longer...

...Now that there will be six years of support, even a device that languishes in development can hit the market with 4+ years of remaining kernel support. The current SoC king, the Snapdragon 835, is even running V4.4 of the Linux kernel, so we could see most recent flagships affected by this announcement."

PS. I copied this text from my previous message (locked thead)

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5 hours ago, okayphoneme said:

Clove have a review up:

 

Wouldn't call that independent really, and it's not really correct in a couple of spots like saying it comes with an unlocked bootloader, that it's FullHD (it's more) or that it's called the "Pro".

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On 12/22/2019 at 9:00 AM, Gon009 said:

Kinda funny seeing people comparing two biased reviews (android authority vs xda) and of course calling people names because someone said that Pro1 is not worth buying. Also, these are two separate reviews, one is for masses and second is for geeks(do you really expect "normal" people to care about LineageOS or SailfishOS at all?)

Come on mate, call me out by name 😉

The reason i'm complaining is simply because the author didn't tailor the review to any particular audience. Is it for a general purpose smartphone user? Is it for a keyboard enthusiast? Is it for a power user? 

If it was meant for Joe Sixpack, play some games. Take some social media pictures. How does that work? What about the keyboard? Of course there's going to be a learning curve. Getting acquainted with a new keyboard was always a day or two long process that wasn't that hard at all. h

This review was all over the place. The whole thing came off like one of those, "My editor gave me a day to play with and use this phone. I now have to pump out some review. Let's skim the specs sheet. Oh no, a slightly older SoC, guess that sucks and who the heck needs a keyboard anymore?"

This cometely misses a lot of the enjoyment that comes from using the damn thing for an extended period of time. It's like a guy who reviews EVs and then decides to review a pickup truck for 30 minutes. All the while complaining about how slow, lumbering, and loud it is. 

Well gee, ya don't think?  Different strokes for different folks. 

Honestly, I don't know why I am ranting as this type of review is endemic to the larger tech journalism community and is part and parcel of the larger decline of journalism. Regardless, he did highlight software deficiencies which are easily fixed with an OTA update. 

Overall, the AA review was a C grade at best, misses the mark, and clearly wasn't something the author wanted to do.

Hardware designers got smart and decided to only make devices that review well. Design it so a dispassionate journalist on a deadline can quickly get to all of its good bits and move on, end user be damned! 

In other words:

Back-in-my-mdd8xj.jpg

Edit: I will concede that smartphone designs are now tailored exclusively for two things:

1. Mobile Media Consumption

2. Mobile Advertising Delivery

Hence why we've been in a mobile device dark age. 

Edited by D1ggs
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This is just a review I posted at another site.  I am not a professional reviewer nor can I claim to be independent.  😉

http://forum.brighthand.com/threads/review-of-the-f-x-tec-pro1-keyboard-slider-smartphone-2019.293542/#post-1916292

My perspective is from a less-technical user and a writer.  This is a site with a lot of folks who go way back, to PDAs. 

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On 12/25/2019 at 5:54 PM, Hook said:

This is just a review I posted at another site.  I am not a professional reviewer nor can I claim to be independent.  😉

http://forum.brighthand.com/threads/review-of-the-f-x-tec-pro1-keyboard-slider-smartphone-2019.293542/#post-1916292

My perspective is from a less-technical user and a writer.  This is a site with a lot of folks who go way back, to PDAs. 

Well written and thorough. You're making the wait harder. 😉

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On 12/23/2019 at 7:29 PM, D1ggs said:

The reason i'm complaining is simply because the author didn't tailor the review to any particular audience. Is it for a general purpose smartphone user? Is it for a keyboard enthusiast? Is it for a power user? 

Isn't it clear by reading review? Keyboard enthusiasts and power users practically don't exists.

On 12/23/2019 at 7:29 PM, D1ggs said:

If it was meant for Joe Sixpack, play some games. Take some social media pictures. How does that work? What about the keyboard? Of course there's going to be a learning curve. Getting acquainted with a new keyboard was always a day or two long process that wasn't that hard at all. h

Playing games is not what average user does I think, at least in my country mobile games are a minority of smartphone users.

On 12/23/2019 at 7:29 PM, D1ggs said:

This review was all over the place. The whole thing came off like one of those, "My editor gave me a day to play with and use this phone. I now have to pump out some review. Let's skim the specs sheet. Oh no, a slightly older SoC, guess that sucks and who the heck needs a keyboard anymore?"

That's valid point, bashing hardware was out of place but we don't know which bugs had their version, maybe their version suffered from poor performance, we won't know. My Pro1 for example suffers from wobbling, something i hear doesn't happen in other devices.

On 12/23/2019 at 7:29 PM, D1ggs said:

This cometely misses a lot of the enjoyment that comes from using the damn thing for an extended period of time. It's like a guy who reviews EVs and then decides to review a pickup truck for 30 minutes. All the while complaining about how slow, lumbering, and loud it is. 

And you missed the point of how phones are designed today. Learning curve must be as small as possible for the user. In my country when you buy a phone from some retailers you can even pay them to install your apps and configure the phone. The review is clearly a "first impressions" one and it's a normal that any "first impressions" review won't be happy with keyboard. Put Pro1 among other phones in the market, let people touch the keyboard, I guess that almost everyone will tell that it's very uncomfortable.

Also, then who should review the phone, again, a guy that told that waited for the phone for months and one of the first thing he wanted to do was to install LineageOS? Please... you forgot that your pickup truck was disguised as EV and you showed it to people who drive EVs.

Look at Clove review for example, it says about the hardware and the fact that it has a keyboard, OK, but then show a price tag. When most of people are fine using a slab, will they find a reason to experiment buying a phone that is twice as expensive as Xiaomi or Huawei with same internals? No.

On 12/23/2019 at 7:29 PM, D1ggs said:

Regardless, he did highlight software deficiencies which are easily fixed with an OTA update. 

Then why these issues still exist anyway if they are "easily fixed"? The software has tons of bugs, some of which make phone less usable.

On 12/23/2019 at 7:29 PM, D1ggs said:

Edit: I will concede that smartphone designs are now tailored exclusively for two things:

1. Mobile Media Consumption

2. Mobile Advertising Delivery

Oh, you finally got it right! The Pro1 is made for minority, extremely small minority, that's why there aren't even 3000 valid orders. 7 years without any keyboard sliders? If people wanted it that much, we would have many more orders. The truth it, keyboard sliders are no more and Pro1 is not a friendly phone for average user mainly because of software issues and learning curve, something that doesn't exist in other smartphones. I bought it because I like landscape keyboard phones, I've never rooted the phone, never entered the command line on it or opened a SSH app on it because I use laptop for things like that.

I have the phone and if you don't care about that much about the keyboard there's no reason to buy Pro1, besides countless software issues, side button placement is poorly designed, camera button just sucks, price is high, anyone who didn't fanatically wait for landscape slider won't understand why someone can buy a phone like that, if someone is comfortable with using virtual keyboard, why even bother? This is how it is today. You can shout how "perfect" is Pro1. No it's not. It's a fun device but it's not for "average" user, average user will just get angry using it. I show it to my brother who wanted to see it so much and thought it's cool that landscape slider came back to life, after not even two minutes he gave me back the phone, he wasn't pleased with it.

People on this forum is an extremely small minority, reviews won't be tailored to you.

First sentence of Gigadoc2 pretty much sums up everything all your complains about "wrong" people creating reviews.

On 12/22/2019 at 10:21 PM, Gigadoc2 said:

It is somewhat funny (but please don't take this as an insult, it is not) how the community "rediscovers" why horizontal sliders like this (or maybe sliders in general) died out. From people selling this phone in a very public way to debating over reviews like this it kinda looks like history repeating itself 😄

 

Edited by Gon009
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Just a brief summary from me, I may do better review once I used it for some longer time. But I wanted to give a short update so people see that the phone is not as bad as some people here say:

I am using the phone for 4 days now and can say I am happy.
Build quality is great, it feels premium! I expected it to be more bulky.

I still need some time to get used to the keyboard but I love it.
However, Finqwerty is a must for me to remap the layout. Fxtec tried to much on that one.

The only HW thing that really sucks is the pfingerprint reader. Especially its position.
I always lock it because my palm tries to log in while I take the phone out.

Like the famous N900 was, it is a phone which needs some time to customize, change the layout etc. The negative reviews seem to come from people who are not ready to put that work in (well not all the negative reviews, but a lot of them). I would totally buy that phone again!
 

Edited by Doktor Oswaldo
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17 hours ago, Gon009 said:

🌧️😠⛈️

3XiKMch.gif

❤️ you mate 😉

Edited by D1ggs

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, evozero said:

That review lives somewhere I don't. Shipping incomplete software? Wow when was the last time you got something which does not receive patches the following months? Sure most smartphones work great from the beginning, but they all have the same 3 components...
The only valid point here is the FP sensor which is indeed horrible.

Edited by Doktor Oswaldo
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On 12/20/2019 at 11:27 AM, FlyingAntero said:

The guy from AndroidAuthority really doesn't seem to like QWERTY phones 😅.

BlackBerry Priv review from the same person: https://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=17093&p=6693

"I'm not sold on the keyboard. The quality is fine, but the keys are a bit flat to me, They have BlackBerry's signature scalloped shape, but each individual key's profile could be more defined. Travel and feedback are solid enough. I pulled out the BlackBerry Classic (late 2014) and can tell you I like that keyboard much better. The Priv's keyboard feels a bit cramped and offers no benefit to me over the excellent software keyboard. Hardware keyboard purists, however, may find that the Priv's keys are just what they need to more effectively tap out emails on the go."

However, he has some points there and software of Pro1 needs some fixes. Good to see that battery life is good.

I owned the BlackBerry Priv and the keys were flat, the keyboard was indeed cramped and still had to use the on-screen keyboard to find symbols that should be but weren't on the physical kb.  Just saying....

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2 hours ago, Erik said:

 

The multiple reviewers/owners saying how hard it is to open, have to train yourself to open and afraid they will fling it across the room or drop it on the street doesn't really give me confidence that it's a good design to me.  

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7 minutes ago, Siani_8 said:

The multiple reviewers/owners saying how hard it is to open, have to train yourself to open and afraid they will fling it across the room or drop it on the street doesn't really give me confidence that it's a good design to me.  

I repeat myself here, it is like riding a bike. Difficult at first, but once your body got it, you can not understand how you ever found it complicated. See this.

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11 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

I repeat myself here, it is like riding a bike. Difficult at first, but once your body got it, you can not understand how you ever found it complicated. See this.

What I'm saying is that in all my years of using sliders, I never had to get used to anything...just slid it.  And no offense but a lot of your comments seem to be very biased and defensive of Fx tec and don't akways align with the majority of reviewers such as how most of them, and some owners who have recieved theirs, find the thumb travel a little far to the center of the kb while you have no trouble at all with average size hands.  

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Posted (edited)

Overall a nicely balanced review with a hidden negative point of the mushy two-stage camera button I suppose (as it should be able to take photos).
While I certainly can't judge the opening mechanism for myself yet, some people easily open theirs one-handed by now. Perhaps it's not learning how to do it, but rather stopping to do it wrong based on expectations how to do it. Well, that's still "learning" in a way, but this is not your average sliding mechanism, so don't force expectations of one on it.

Edited by elvissteinjr

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27 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

I repeat myself here, it is like riding a bike. Difficult at first, but once your body got it, you can not understand how you ever found it complicated. See this.

Exactly. If you try to push it straight forward, it's a bit hard, but if you push at a certain angle at the very edge of the curve, kind of pushing up and not forward, it slides perfectly without an issue.

Takes a week to get used to, and then it's only the satisfying "click" left.

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29 minutes ago, Siani_8 said:

What I'm saying is that in all my years of using sliders, I never had to get used to anything...just slid it.  And no offense but a lot of your comments seem to be very biased and defensive of Fx tec and don't akways align with the majority of reviewers such as how most of them, and some owners who have recieved theirs, find the thumb travel a little far to the center of the kb while you have no trouble at all with average size hands.  

Yes I'm biased, as I have waiting for this for years. And wish them all the luck they can get to increase the chance of a successor.

The opening is quite simlar to the old Nokias with the same mechanism. N97, N97Mini, E7, N950 and others. But it is NOT the same plain slide as the various SE Xperia Pros nor the Moto Droids. So what matters is what you have used before.

On the reach. I can ALMOST but not completely reach fully with one hand and secure grip on e.g. a Samsung S8- or a Iphone S6-, Yet I have zero problems reaching well beyond half the keyboard with either thumb. It is much a matter of how you hold it, If I hold it extremely I can reach almost the whole keyboard with either thumb... I can reach 2 from the right and Dash from the left. If I hold it comfortably, the overlap is 5 from the right and 8 from the left.

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7 minutes ago, Erik said:

Takes a week to get used to, and then it's only the satisfying "click" left.

...If you are an old Nokia user that still got the muscle memory you just open it, without even knowing that you did something complex.

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20 minutes ago, Siani_8 said:

What I'm saying is that in all my years of using sliders, I never had to get used to anything...just slid it.  And no offense but a lot of your comments seem to be very biased and defensive of Fx tec and don't akways align with the majority of reviewers such as how most of them, and some owners who have recieved theirs, find the thumb travel a little far to the center of the kb while you have no trouble at all with average size hands.  

a PS to the Above.

IMHO F(x)tec SHOULD have done a better job telling that it is NOT an intuitive push that opens the device. Some drawings in the small user guide, and/or links to videos of better quality than mine.

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17 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

Yes I'm biased, as I have waiting for this for years. And wish them all the luck they can get to increase the chance of a successor.

The opening is quite simlar to the old Nokias with the same mechanism. N97, N97Mini, E7, N950 and others. But it is NOT the same plain slide as the various SE Xperia Pros nor the Moto Droids. So what matters is what you have used before.

On the reach. I can ALMOST but not completely reach fully with one hand and secure grip on e.g. a Samsung S8- or a Iphone S6-, Yet I have zero problems reaching well beyond half the keyboard with either thumb. It is much a matter of how you hold it, If I hold it extremely I can reach almost the whole keyboard with either thumb... I can reach 2 from the right and Dash from the left. If I hold it comfortably, the overlap is 5 from the right and 8 from the left.

Well I'm also biased to kb phones in general and have also been waiting for years for a chance at another 5 row horizontal slider.  I pre-ordered this and had a custom case made months ago.  I just hope that this is a hit and if there is another one that some of the common constructive feedback is not ignored.  I was probably not that constructive with the way I said "didn't seem like a good design".  I do think a slider should be intuitive with the way it opens though.  I guess if I ever get my phone, I will know for myself what I can only asertain from common denominators of reviews. 

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10 minutes ago, Siani_8 said:

Well I'm also biased to kb phones in general and have also been waiting for years for a chance at another 5 row horizontal slider.  I pre-ordered this and had a custom case made months ago.  I just hope that this is a hit and if there is another one that some of the common constructive feedback is not ignored.  I was probably not that constructive with the way I said "didn't seem like a good design".  I do think a slider should be intuitive with the way it opens though.  I guess if I ever get my phone, I will know for myself what I can only asertain from common denominators of reviews. 

It is a principal issue with this mechanism, as it was on the Nokias, that it is NOT intuitive to use. BUT the gain once learned is the tilted display and a mechanism less prone to pocket lint, dog hairs or the like messing the rails up. AND that we are not required to use two thumbs to provide an even push, as the mechanism is a more stable and simple construction mechanically.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Siani_8 said:

The multiple reviewers/owners saying how hard it is to open, have to train yourself to open and afraid they will fling it across the room or drop it on the street doesn't really give me confidence that it's a good design to me.  

Having owned the pro1 for a few weeks I can tell you at least for me, this was a temporary problem and now i can just whack it open with one hand if needed and most of the time it just magically opens without thought. It's a great design, but like many good things it has a learning curve. And I am not concerned of dropping it when opening, never really was as I just started carefully, but now as I told it just opens easily because the motions are in my muscle memory.

Edited by netman
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I imagine the reason he thought the camera button didnt take photos is due to the lack of feedback.  No thumbnail, no shutter sound.  I didnt think I was taking photos at first either.  I do hope this is fixed shortly as this affects these first impression type reviews.

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