On the pre-production status

[silversolver 849]

7 hours ago, jjarmasz said:

One shouldn't have to be hunting through the various forum posts to find out this information. It's not the wait so much as the promised deadlines repeatedly getting pushed back with only very hazy communications that are really making me lose patience and confidence. Seriously trying to talk myself out of cancelling my order right now... 

Let me help you. I wish I remember where I read it, but the statement was made that additional personnel were hired at the factory to bang out these devices much more quickly when it became clear that what they had was not enough. This has already been done, and devices are now being made much more quickly. Your long-anticipated device is only a few weeks away now. Cancelling will come between you and that device, and even if you reorder it later, you will have introduced additional delays by bumping yourself out of the current queue and into a later one. The owner of the company is personally helping with things at the factory to make things go as quickly as possible.

Everyone who has received this device has said that it performs well and is well-made. It will be yours quite soon if you only persevere. :)

[jjarmasz 81]

35 minutes ago, silversolver said:

Everyone who has received this device has said that it performs well and is well-made. It will be yours quite soon if you only persevere. 🙂

That, and reviews like the one by Steve Litchfield from the Phones Show are what are making me willing to persevere. And the fact that there are so many fans on this forum 🙂 Really hoping this is the real big batch of deliveries this time...

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Artemis-kun said:

It continues to amaze me how much time people seem to have on their hands around this thread. I actually don't fault Fxtec for the radio silence; every time they give the slightest hint of info, the wolves come lurking.

Maybe try your hand at designing and manufacturing yourselves, then come back and play.

The problem is that every hint of info given by Erik is not implemented as stated. Filter his posts, read them and make your own opinion. After a while following the thread you wonder what is going on...

Due to this pattern, I see good reason to ask for some proof about the latest statement "all pre-ordered devices will be dispatched before Chinese New Year".

Apparently in 6 months, they managed to produce about 1/10 or 2/10 of the devices. And now in two weeks they are supposed to produce all the rest.

I am not saying it will not happen. I am asking for more solid evidence.

The question is very simple: where are the manufactured devices? where is the big third batch planned to be dispatched by the end of this week?

I will be very happy to be proven wrong.

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Guest

[Artemis-kun 63]

4 hours ago, silversolver said:

Just out of curiosity, what was the timing? If they started production around this time, which is a general lull in manufacturing of consumer stuff because most of the West spent all their money on Christmas, it sure couldn't have hurt. Also curious, did the people involved have prior experience in designing and manufacturing similar devices, so they would know the process already? I'm not asserting that they did, but I can certainly say the F(x)tec did not have either of these advantages, and it put them at a tremendous disadvantage. @Artemis-kun

Also, the Pro1's specs read ancient today? Don't make me laugh. I'm typing this on a Droid 4 from 2012. It still works fine. NOTHING about the Pro1 is ancient!

It was a laughable post, I was going to make a remark, but then thought better of it, but then noticed this here and I couldn't resist chiming in.

The thing with Unihertz is they are a Chinese company based in Shanghai, so of course they get automatic priority over any other companies looking to do business in China, so there's your explanation right there. Doesn't matter how big they are, they'd get priority and the utmost support, especially in the current political climate.

[Tsunero 215]

8 hours ago, silversolver said:

For the record, my good will is undaunted. I'm very sorry that so many others are so inflexible. Life happens.

Really now? Most of us that stuck around have been almost waiting for near half a year now!!! And I paid in July!

One's goodwill can only go so far...it's not infinite.

We are not in Soviet times where you bought a car and only got it like 5 years later.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Tsunero

[Tsunero 215]

6 hours ago, silversolver said:

Also, the Pro1's specs read ancient today? Don't make me laugh. I'm typing this on a Droid 4 from 2012. It still works fine. NOTHING about the Pro1 is ancient!

Yeah, you just forgot to include that it probably craps itself when watching HD videos and having a few tabs open in the browser (or multiple apps) and let's not even go into gaming. Even my literal brick Nokia from the 90's can send text messages...

My PRIV from 2015 is utter garbage at this point with anything modern. It chugs along but it's a miserable experience.

I am not saying the Pro1 is ancient but it lost from its life already while barely any people got to use it.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Tsunero

[EskeRahn 5,471]

3 hours ago, cmar said:

Apparently in 6 months, they managed to produce about 1/10 or 2/10 of the devices. And now in two weeks they are supposed to produce all the rest.

You conveniently forgot to mention that Erik stated that the "big batch" that was said to be about "3/10" was already produced. So when they can produce 3/10 quickly the remaining about 5/10 does not seem impossible with increased workforce.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

You conveniently forgot to mention that Erik stated that the "big batch" that was said to be about "3/10" was already produced. So when they can produce 3/10 quickly the remaining about 5/10 does not seem impossible with increased workforce.

Erik is the same person who said that the batch will be dispatched by the end of the week. Unfortunately, several of his statements have not been implemented. He does not seem to make any decision in the company.

I am just asking for solid evidence that the 3/10 batch has been produced as he stated. Why should I believe this part now?

[holter 20]

I cannot imagine, that probably devices for all IGG backers are already produced and now waiting for us another two weeks in China. Why? To save shipping of one package? To make as many backers as possible lose their temper (and their voucher)?

[EskeRahn 5,471]

4 minutes ago, cmar said:

Erik is the same person who said that the batch will be dispatched by the end of the week. Unfortunately, several of his statements have not been implemented. He does not seem to make any decision in the company.

I am just asking for solid evidence that the 3/10 batch has been produced as he stated. Why should I believe this part now?

Why should you not? For all we know they have been bad at ESTIMATING what will happen. Has there been any case where they told us something that was incorrect at the time? They might have done otherwise than they estimated/planned - for whatever reason. But that is certainly not the same as not telling the truth.

[Doktor Oswaldo 906]

3 minutes ago, holter said:

I cannot imagine, that probably devices for all IGG backers are already produced and now waiting for us another two weeks in China. Why? To save shipping of one package? To make as many backers as possible lose their temper (and their voucher)?

If I understand Eric correctly they use the same workers for logistics and production.
So instead of shifting the workforce around multiple times and loosing valuable time in the process, they will leave them on production until all units are finished.
After that all units will be shipped together.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

Why should you not? For all we know they have been bad at ESTIMATING what will happen. Has there been any case where they told us something that was incorrect at the time? They might have done otherwise than they estimated/planned - for whatever reason. But that is certainly not the same as not telling the truth.

when you constantly do not do what you say you will do, you break trust.... This is what happened. The only way is to restore trust with some evidence. A few pictures will be enough... this is not that complicated and it has been done in the past.

[Doktor Oswaldo 906]

1 minute ago, cmar said:

when you constantly do not do what you say you will do, you break trust.... This is what happened. The only way is to restore trust with some evidence. A few pictures will be enough... this is not that complicated and it has been done in the past.

I honestly understand everybody who has lost trust and did cancel their order. I wouldn't have done that but I can understand it.
But demanding stuff and demotivate the staff I can't understand. It will not help. Yes they are not the best with communications.
Yes this whole project did not go down as planned. So place constructive critic no problem.
Cancel your order no problem.
But here a lot of people are thinking fxtec owns them some sort of personal account.
You gave them 700 bucks and should be threaten with respect, but that is not enough to be allowed to let your aggression out on eric or anybody else.

Please don't get me wrong, I like that you are passionate about the phone and you are also right that a lot went wrong.
But please try to offer constructive criticism. Something like:

Quote

Hey Eric, Thank you for the update. Unfortunately I have a hard time to trust fxtec due to multiple delays. I think it would help everybody here if you could support your claim with some pictures. Thank you very much.

This will not do anything too, but at least you have not made eric's day worse. He is not the person to blame.
Your other choice is to threaten the support to cancel your pre-order. However then you may have to cancel it or look foolish.... and it is not a nice move in any case!

[VaZso 1,998]

24 minutes ago, cmar said:

Erik is the same person who said that the batch will be dispatched by the end of the week. Unfortunately, several of his statements have not been implemented. He does not seem to make any decision in the company.

I am sure decision is not only made by one of the directors but they have consultation about the current known state of production, financial state and possibilities.

I think they had a decision to send packages weekly to be able to send as many phones as possible before Christmas or the end of the last year to have as much people as possible convenience... but last year has already passed so they made another decision which is financially better.

So I mean things (decisions) can be changed as also the speed of manufacturing process may be improved which may be the source of changing their earlier decision.

Also, these information are internal solutions based on actual (deeper) information.
Eric shared some of them as part of his good will, but these were unofficial information mostly because things and predictions may changing constantly.

So at least it is not as simple as it may seems to be.

[EskeRahn 5,471]

1 minute ago, cmar said:

....do not do what you say you will do,...

And here is the core the "will do". If you replace it with "expect to do" / "hope to do" / "plan to do" / .... you will change from the paranoid version to reality.

We all know they are really bad at communication, and should be much more clear in stating their predictions with these kind of conjunctives rather than stating future things as facts. As this so easily will be interpreted as promises, and thus as broken when things did not go as planned due to things out of their control.

Do not get my wrong, I'm not saying that they will get things done before CNY either. Just that it is their current PLAN to be able to produce and ship from the factory all the remaining pre-orders.

And personally I hope that IF they can not produce all and ship them, they will pause production and send what they got, rather than having the whole send delayed to after CNY.

[VaZso 1,998]

3 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

And personally I hope that IF they can not produce all and ship them, they will pause production and send what they got, rather than having the whole send delayed to after CNY.

I hope and think the same.

[bundyo 32]

Just to cheer you up - Cosmo Communicator did their IGG campaign in November 2018. First shipping was expected in May 2019, They actually started shipping at the end of November. I'm backer 4xx and still waiting. Meanwhile people ordered this December on their own site started receiving their orders around New Year. 🙂

Edited January 10, 2020 by bundyo

[Doktor Oswaldo 906]

5 minutes ago, bundyo said:

Just to cheer you up - Cosmo Communicator did their IGG campaign in November 2018. First shipping was expected in May 2019, They actually started shipping at the end of November. I'm backer 4xx and still waiting. Meanwhile people ordered this December on their own site started receiving their orders around New Year. 🙂

We should just not forget that this is an insanely hard task to develop HW like this. And you are the bottom of the pond:

1. Prio: Chinese companies
2. Prio: Big companies
3. Prio: Small contracts which are ordered spontanious
4. Prio: These weird british startup

So if something goes wrong like protests and stuff, you are fucked!

P.S. I am sorry for you, hope you will get your Cosmo soon. But is is inferior to the all mighty prawn anyway 😄

[agent008 243]

1 hour ago, bundyo said:

Just to cheer you up - Cosmo Communicator did their IGG campaign in November 2018. First shipping was expected in May 2019, They actually started shipping at the end of November. I'm backer 4xx and still waiting. Meanwhile people ordered this December on their own site started receiving their orders around New Year. 🙂

Sounds familiar! So now conspiracy theorists, in order to keep consistent, will have to say that not only Liangchen/Fxtec, but also the people behind Cosmo are pulling a stunt on all their backers, they are dishonest, and will leave all of their supporters to die in thirst of keyboard awesomeness while having a wild ride on backers' money. Right? Ah?

And... the brave fine folks from Cosmo Communicator (I admire them as much as the people at Fxtec for the boldness of making such small-volume gadgets against all odds) have already launched an earlier product. Still, they are delayed even having a prior experience. Food for thought.

Edited January 10, 2020 by agent008

[kthxbye 71]

14 minutes ago, agent008 said:

Sounds familiar! So now conspiracy theorists, in order to keep consistent, will have to say that not only Liangchen/Fxtec, but also the people behind Cosmo are pulling a stunt on all their backers, they are dishonest, and will leave all of their supporters to die in thirst of keyboard awesomeness while having a wild ride on backers' money. Right? Ah?

And... the brave fine folks from Cosmo Communicator (I admire them as much as the people at Fxtec for the boldness of making such small-volume gadgets against all odds) have already launched an earlier product. Still, they are delayed even having a prior experience. Food for thought.

You guys must be living on another planet, the cosmo updates are light years ahead of fxtec's abysmal communication: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cosmo-communicator#/updates/all

They have delivered over 3500 cosmos, whereas fxtec regularly promises that "all pre-orders will be shipped by X" and doesn't even ship much stock at all. You remember when Erik wrote mid november that all is on track for completing all pre orders by christmas with surplus stock? Do you realize now that they hadn't even STARTED producing 3/10th of the stock at that time (since we are told that this batch was completed now)? That is not a bad estimate lmao, that is a straight up lie.

BTW, according to planet their factories missed quite a few deadlines, I wonder if it's the same for fxtec but for some reason they decide to take the blame themselves.

Edited January 10, 2020 by kthxbye

[Doktor Oswaldo 906]

2 minutes ago, kthxbye said:

You guys must be living on another planet, the cosmo updates are light years ahead of fxtec's abysmal communication: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cosmo-communicator#/updates/all

They have delivered over 3500 cosmos, whereas fxtec regularly promises that "all pre-orders will be shipped by X" and doesn't even ship much stock at all. You remember when Erik wrote mid november that all is on track for completing all pre orders by christmas with surplus stock? Do you realize now that they hadn't even STARTED producing 3/10th of the stock at that time (since we are told that this batch was completed now)? That is not a bad estimate lmao, that is a straight up lie.

While I absolutely agree that the updates are a waaaaaaay better way of handling a product like that, some assumptions in this post are not certain.
We do not know how many they started to produce, we do not know if they had to redo thousands of devices.
 

[kthxbye 71]

2 minutes ago, Doktor Oswaldo said:

While I absolutely agree that the updates are a waaaaaaay better way of handling a product like that, some assumptions in this post are not certain.
We do not know how many they started to produce, we do not know if they had to redo thousands of devices.
 

That's true, but the screen issue update IIRC was worded in such a way that it wasn't a huge deal. I don't remember there being any other delay update, aside from the screens and shipping taking longer, but shipping should be orthogonal to production.

Edit: in one of the updates Planet Computers came forward and said they had a lot of QA rejections in one of the factories, so it seems to be possible to give information on the subject (just in case you think fxtec has some kind of NDA with the factories that prevent them from giving proper updates)

Edited January 10, 2020 by kthxbye

[Doktor Oswaldo 906]

Just now, kthxbye said:

That's true, but the screen issue update IIRC was worded in such a way that it wasn't a huge deal. I don't remember there being any other delay update, aside from the screens and shipping taking longer, but shipping should be orthogonal to production.

Yeah but there were not a lot updates at all 😄 So there could be a lot more issues we don't know of. If you follow other sources there are hints that this may be true.
However we don't know. That is exactly the worst part of this project, we don't know anything at all!

[kthxbye 71]

34 minutes ago, Doktor Oswaldo said:

Yeah but there were not a lot updates at all 😄 So there could be a lot more issues we don't know of. If you follow other sources there are hints that this may be true.
However we don't know. That is exactly the worst part of this project, we don't know anything at all!

Yeah, not to mention issues that are not related to shipping... the cosmo turns out to have a 3rd party OTA provider too, and they have baked in a backdoor android service that allows any app on the device to do anything it wants, see https://wuffs.org/blog/pulling-apart-the-cosmos-systemfota-updater .
There planet hasn't provided any public information yet, but on the other hand fxtec's Chen has come forward and at least written something (not really acked the problem, unfortunately) regarding adups.

I hope the adups stuff is just the app that was found (but until some whitehat pulls apart the ROM I would not expect it to be different from digitime's stuff, they both have bad reputation)

Edited January 10, 2020 by kthxbye
s/baked/baked in/

[bundyo 32]

22 minutes ago, kthxbye said:

You guys must be living on another planet, the cosmo updates are light years ahead of fxtec's abysmal communication: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cosmo-communicator#/updates/all

They have delivered over 3500 cosmos, whereas fxtec regularly promises that "all pre-orders will be shipped by X" and doesn't even ship much stock at all. You remember when Erik wrote mid november that all is on track for completing all pre orders by christmas with surplus stock? Do you realize now that they hadn't even STARTED producing 3/10th of the stock at that time (since we are told that this batch was completed now)? That is not a bad estimate lmao, that is a straight up lie.

BTW, according to planet their factories missed quite a few deadlines, I wonder if it's the same for fxtec but for some reason they decide to take the blame themselves.

I really doubt PC have delivered over 3500 Cosmos and they didn't cover all their initial backers from previous November/December, which were less than half that number.