Rob. S. 1,616 Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 16 minutes ago, brunoais said: 19 minutes ago, FlyingAntero said: 720G is not a 5G chip. If F(x)tec would use SD720G, SD730G or SD732G they would not need to redesign antennas. However, I don't know if it would be as easy swap as SD662. I see. I'm not much updated on that. I'd still rather have those and go forward than this bate and switch from Qualcomm who took the money and then didn't deliver to f(x)tec. Maybe any of those ones would be easier and faster to work with... I just wonder if Qualcomm blocked F(x)tec from using them. Fxtec doesn't just have to prepare a new phone, they also have to calculate their costs... Even if they could use one of the 7xx series of SoCs without needing a complete redesign of the hardware, it wouldn't help them much if the device's production costs would eventually exceed what we paid for them... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brunoais 317 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Indeed... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob. S. 1,616 Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 18 minutes ago, matf said: I am not sure there is still room for reconsidering the choices at this stage, though. There are probably constraints we don't see as customers. But if I'm asked whether I could wait or not, then definitely, I could, and I would vastly prefer that. For me it was clear right from the beginning in 2019, even though the original Pro1 already seemed a good offer at the time (and still seems one today, if you ask me), that it couldn't have been anything but a first shot at a great keyboard phone that would bring us over the waiting time until they have their refined and upgraded Pro2 ready 😉 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robert 12 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, Rob. S. said: Fxtec doesn't just have to prepare a new phone, they also have to calculate their costs... Even if they could use one of the 7xx series of SoCs without needing a complete redesign of the hardware, it wouldn't help them much if the device's production costs would eventually exceed what we paid for them... If the new SoC would be significantly better (Benchmark + Features) than the one we purchased, I would be ready to pay the difference for the SoC. But I don't support losing important security features. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vladislav Mogilev 6 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Robert said: If the new SoC would be significantly better (Benchmark + Features) than the one we purchased, I would be ready to pay the difference for the SoC. But I don't support losing important security features. Yes, right same here, I am willing to pay the difference for the better SoC 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brunoais 317 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Robert said: If the new SoC would be significantly better (Benchmark + Features) than the one we purchased, I would be ready to pay the difference for the SoC. But I don't support losing important security features. It's not that you lose them. You just no longer get hardware acceleration for them. That causes their processing to become slower. Edited February 11, 2021 by brunoais 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robert 12 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 1 minute ago, brunoais said: It's not that you lose them. You just no longer get hardware acceleration so they process faster. For example the Trust Zone feature is very important for mobile wallets. (Hardware Encrypted Storage) Or the NX Bit segregates areas of memory for use by either storage of processor instructions, which also rises the Security. Not getting acceleration for AES is sad, but as you said it can be handled by using CPU power which will drain the battery faster. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pakman 14 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 30 minutes ago, Vladislav Mogilev said: Yes, right same here, I am willing to pay the difference for the better SoC Me to, and/or have my backing transferred from the Pro 1 to a future Pro 2 device. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lawliett 77 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) They should continue to do pro1x campaign, so they can make enough money to keep their operation running. But they should also start the campaign for pro2 with a vastly better SOC. That way the campaigns can run concurrently; I'll happily buy both devices. That way the pro1x will come this year and the pro2 will come early next year. I'm sure they took their time and considered all their options before deciding on the 662. They took their time putting out this update and they're fully aware of the ramifications of their decision. They didn't put it up to a community vote, cause the never community would never choose the 662. Fxtec chose the 662 because it was the only way they could deliver the phone within a reasonable timeframe and within budget. I want them to succeed and continue to operate even if it means a less than stellar device. After all, what's the alternative; a locked down blackberry with portrait keyboard... An astro slide with mediatek without enough modifiers or symbol keys... This is the only keyboard that's considerate to linux users. Edited February 11, 2021 by lawliett 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zundappchef 92 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 3 hours ago, nobumacsuzuki said: If you think "hey this guy is demanding something unreasonable"... I am working for OEM business, and I know how the semiconductor companies announce EOL of the product. They usually provide the notification 3 months before they announce the EOL. F(x)tec mentioned "negotiate with supply chain" - actually it happened 3 month before. It does mean, they had not placed the order in Nov 2020, while they had observed the back-orders, presumably from Jan 2020 to Nov 2020. Don't you think their logistic management is seriously terrible, not to order the critical lead-time component seeing the EOL notification, and to announce this serious delay right now? 100% agree Idk somehow its starting to look like a scam for people who have not recieved their device Now im ok with waiting as long as they are honnest with it . if i knew i would have purchased a high end phone between my priv and the fx pro1 This downgrade in chipset is wierd they have to redesign the motherboard because of different sizes and architecture Why not choose a better chipset that would upgrade the whole platform for the future . The pro1 and pro1x are the same device just a different shell . i realized this to late but ill be happy with it being blue But this fact also means that they are so far behind since the delivering of the pro1 has stil not completed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
_DW_ 628 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 A side by side for the changed cpu https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-qualcomm_snapdragon_662-1833-vs-qualcomm_snapdragon_835-1846 2 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bundyo 32 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Meanwhile Chen confirmed that video out works on 662. 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EskeRahn 5,350 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 This poll really only make sense if you assume that they have nor purchased/ordered parts for the Pro1X already. IF they have not, it make sense. IF they have, who is going to pay if they are to ditch it? My guess is it would lead to a fold, so it is more like: 662 or no device at all. 2 hours ago, brunoais said: Qualcomm has turned their back to F(x)tec and with a complete F*ck you, even after having fully promised to deliver and having been paid. Yeah, you can't make that **** up. You are assuming they are buying directly from Qualcomm. It might also be an intermediary party that is the nasty culprit here. 2 hours ago, brunoais said: The announcement itself 🙂 Quote Using a 5G chipset would require a complete overhaul of the design which is effectively like designing a completely new phone, putting us back a further 6-9 months Please do not overlook the "FURTHER" so August 2021+9 would be about May 2022... 50 minutes ago, lawliett said: They should continue to do pro1x campaign, so they can make enough money to keep their operation running. But they should also start the campaign for pro2 with a vastly better SOC. That way the campaigns can run concurrently; I'll happily buy both devices. That way the pro1x will come this year and the pro2 will come early next year. Interesting thought, but I doubt they have the manpower, to have two projects running at once, so it would need they would need to expand the whole operation. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robert 12 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, EskeRahn said: This poll really only make sense if you assume that they have nor purchased/ordered parts for the Pro1X already. IF they have not, it make sense. IF they have, who is going to pay if they are to ditch it? My guess is it would lead to a fold, so it is more like: 662 or no device at all. Is there anyone from the Fxtec team willing to answer this question? For me not having a secure mobile wallet makes no sense to buy a new mobile phone. In other words: I will ask for refund if the only choise will be the 662 Snapdragon. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
claude0001 1,239 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Robert said: Is there anyone from the Fxtec team willing to answer this question? To me, the message they released reads like the decision for the 662 stands. They were informing us about the new facts, not trying to seek our advice. 2 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob. S. 1,616 Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Robert said: If the new SoC would be significantly better (Benchmark + Features) than the one we purchased, I would be ready to pay the difference for the SoC. But I don't support losing important security features. I see your point, and I even might offer to pay for the difference, too. Still I guess it would mean additional expenditures for Fxtec to handle those new payments. More importantly, other poeple might not want to pay the difference and would rather go with what Fxtec has announced. Fxtec can hardly do both, which would mean developing two new phones with even lower quantities than one new phone would imply. So they have to decide which way to go, and as it would be worse making people pay who don't want to, they go the cheaper route. Personally, as I said, I don't care for "benchmarks" or "features" above the phone that I've been using for 1½ years now, the Moto Z3 Play. I haven't missed them until now and for the coming two or three years I probably won't miss them, either. Also I don't quite see the importance for those security features except for extreme niche applications like mobile wallets. Again, I see your point if that's what you need, but I suspect the majority of the Pro1 target audience probably won't actually need it. Also, I guess the discussion is moot at this point. The decision has been made, and all we can hope for is that Fxtec still sells enough Pro1 X devices to be able to give us a Pro2 one day that hopefully will be a bit more high-end then... 2 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robert 12 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Rob. S. said: I see your point, and I even might offer to pay for the difference, too. Still I guess it would mean additional expenditures for Fxtec to handle those new payments. More importantly, other poeple might not want to pay the difference and would rather go with what Fxtec has announced. Fxtec can hardly do both, which would mean developing two new phones with even lower quantities than one new phone would imply. So they have to decide which way to go, and as it would be worse making people pay who don't want to, they go the cheaper route. Personally, as I said, I don't care for "benchmarks" or "features" above the phone that I've been using for 1½ years now, the Moto Z3 Play. I haven't missed them until now and for the coming two or three years I probably won't miss them, either. Also I don't quite see the importance for those security features except for extreme niche applications like mobile wallets. Again, I see your point if that's what you need, but I suspect the majority of the Pro1 target audience probably won't actually need it. Also, I guess the discussion is moot at this point. The decision has been made, and all we can hope for is that Fxtec still sells enough Pro1 X devices to be able to give us a Pro2 one day that hopefully will be a bit more high-end then... Yes I see your point, but ... check the voting... No one want's a 662... People are even ready to wait longer until they order get's finalized with a Chip that is well supported by the comunity and provides all promissed features. If the Snapdragon order has been messed up, downgrading is not an option in my point of view. They should go the next step in their developement process. Edited February 11, 2021 by Robert Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PsyDucky 20 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 8 minutes ago, Rob. S. said: I see your point, and I even might offer to pay for the difference, too. Still I guess it would mean additional expenditures for Fxtec to handle those new payments. More importantly, other poeple might not want to pay the difference and would rather go with what Fxtec has announced. Fxtec can hardly do both, which would mean developing two new phones with even lower quantities than one new phone would imply. So they have to decide which way to go, and as it would be worse making people pay who don't want to, they go the cheaper route. Personally, as I said, I don't care for "benchmarks" or "features" above the phone that I've been using for 1½ years now, the Moto Z3 Play. I haven't missed them until now and for the coming two or three years I probably won't miss them, either. Also I don't quite see the importance for those security features except for extreme niche applications like mobile wallets. Again, I see your point if that's what you need, but I suspect the majority of the Pro1 target audience probably won't actually need it. Also, I guess the discussion is moot at this point. The decision has been made, and all we can hope for is that Fxtec still sells enough Pro1 X devices to be able to give us a Pro2 one day that hopefully will be a bit more high-end then... Not really a lot of numbers and i would not really put anything serious in to 24 votes. But none the less so faar the answer has been nobody voted for the 662. So im not so sure they would need to make 2 devices. And it seems to me the Pro1 and pro1x will already be 2 diffrent devices. But if they are making 2 diffrence devices anyways.....At least let it be a decent one that people would want. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EskeRahn 5,350 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 34 minutes ago, claude0001 said: To me, the message they released reads like the decision for the 662 stands. They were informing us about the new facts, not trying to seek our advice. That is how I read it too. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EskeRahn 5,350 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 10 minutes ago, Robert said: Yes I see your point, but ... check the voting... No one want's a 662... People are even ready to wait longer until they order get's finalized with a Chip that is well supported by the comunity and provides all promissed features. As said earlier these might not be the two real alternatives, I would guess 662 or no Pro1 X at all 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob. S. 1,616 Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Robert said: Yes I see your point, but ... check the voting... No one want's a 662... People are even ready to wait longer until they order get's finalized with a Chip that is well supported by the comunity and provides all promissed features. If the Snapdragon order has been messed up, downgrading is not an option in my point of view. They should go the next step in their developement process. I do, I clicked the wrong button 😉 And I don't think 25 votes say anything, they're not in the least representative for all those who are waiting for their Pro1 and Pro1 X phones... Also, the decision has been made, I don't think there's anything we can do about it except just commenting it. Edited February 11, 2021 by Rob. S. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shinkamui 0 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 I'm incredibly disappointed with this news. It feels like a bait and switch. I understand the qualcomm screw job, but there is nothing pro about this inferior version. Please go back to the table and find a better solution than a 662, or offer refunds to those of us who want nothing to do with this. I didn't pay flagship prices for a lower mid spec midrange phone. Its not just about the keyboard to those who say "but the keyboard and design!", its about the whole package. The value prop with an aging flagship was JUST worth the high asking price thanks to otherOS support, mainline, and the communities efforst. Right now I just feel ripped off. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DieBruine 397 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) Delivery of my first phone was delayed by 5 months, the others 10 months. So, if you're delivery is delayed by 6 months, and you've been waiting less than 4 months, you have no right to complain 🙃. Just putting things into perspective. Current Pro1 owners have had to wait anywhere between 10 months and 2 years between initial order and delivery. Besides, Pro1x owners have a decent chance of owning a phone with a usable camera and fully licensed Android support. Unlike current owners who can forget about ever receiving a decent upgrade to their camera software or official Android OS. Don't forget, we're running Android 9. And with all the necessary redesign needed to get the 662 up and running, current Pro1 owners can go 🖕🏾 themselves. At least, that's what I expect from FxTec-development regarding the Pro1. To quote a great Dutch soccer (which I hate, not the player)) player; "every disadvantage has its advantage" 😶. Edited February 11, 2021 by DieBruine Typo's 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AnnieC 115 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 9 minutes ago, DieBruine said: ... Besides, Pro1x owners have a decent chance of owning a phone with a usable camera and fully licensed Android support. Unlike current owners who can forget about ever receiving a decent upgrade to their camera software or official Android OS. Don't forget, we're running Android 9. And with all the necessary redesign needed to get the 662 up and running, current Pro1 owners can go 🖕🏾 themselves. At least, that's what I expect from FxTec-development regarding the Pro1. To quote a great Dutch soccer (which I hate, not the player)) player; "every disadvantage has its advantage" 😶. I'm afraid of that too, they couldn't even update the Pro1 frequently even before all this and now they would need to do work on two phones, I'm not optimistic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
npjohnson 33 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 6 hours ago, brunoais said: Qualcomm has turned their back to F(x)tec and with a complete F*ck you, even after having fully promised to deliver and having been paid. Yeah, you can't make that **** up. So, we are left with 2 major choices with which F(x)tec has already tried to choose from. I wish we were consulted as a community first but I guess, when under stress, people make mistakes. Specially such newcomers into this business. Redesign of PRO¹ (possibly into PRO²) and use a much more recent SoC as powerful or more powerful than SD 835 (9 months delay) Slight redesign of PRO¹ to accommodate SD662 and get the phone earlier (5 months delay) See announcement here: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/pro1-x-smartphone-functionality-choice-control/x/14443522 Given our situation, I ask the community wether they prefer to wait longer, until the end of 2021 or very early 2022 for a better product (which will require significant work and considerable silence periods from F(x)tec's part!) or to get an inferior product but almost guaranteed on August/September? Vote! Show them your POV on it. QCOM isn't at fault here - they're probably entirely unaware of any of this given they haven't supported the SD835 for years. It's IdeaLite, the ODM that went back on their word. 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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