On the pre-production status

[KingOfTerrible 69]

@Erik can you give any more details about what the US Customs issue was with the first batch that was sent to the US?  I'm wondering how "choosing a different shipping method to comply with US customs regulations" bypasses whatever problem was encountered.  I'm not part of that first batch, but I am very much hoping that I'm part of the second US batch with an order in the 52xx and paid July 31st, about 50 mins after receiving the notice that you were ready for payments.

[Erik 1,487]

1 hour ago, KingOfTerrible said:

@Erik can you give any more details about what the US Customs issue was with the first batch that was sent to the US?  I'm wondering how "choosing a different shipping method to comply with US customs regulations" bypasses whatever problem was encountered.  I'm not part of that first batch, but I am very much hoping that I'm part of the second US batch with an order in the 52xx and paid July 31st, about 50 mins after receiving the notice that you were ready for payments.

I am no expert in logistics, but the US has specific requirements when a foreign importer as ourselves imports a mass shipment into a US warehouse for general sale. It's not as simple as sending something with Fedex and it landing at your door the next day. Not when we haven't traded in the US before. 

I will try to get a response from one of our directors in charge of US logistics. The issue has been resolved already for our new batches.

[EskeRahn 5,471]

14 minutes ago, Erik said:

The issue has been resolved already for our new batches.

That was god news! Thanks.

[enPfzr4v 239]

1 hour ago, EskeRahn said:

That was god news! Thanks.

Amen!

[illie-vanilli 58]

2 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

That was god news! Thanks.

Godly news indeed, praise the almighty Pro1! 🙏🙏

[silversolver 849]

7 hours ago, glumreaper said:

It wasn't too bad from my experience. I got one reply just now asking if I was sure since devices are now shipping, and: "The second batch due to arrive by the end of this month will include your order." (I've given up trying to decipher such statements from FXtec.)

But once I confirmed, they processed the refund straight away.

BOO!!!! Why on earth would you do that?! Then if (when?) you decide you'd like one again later, you're paying more. So weird to quit a marathon at mile 25.9.......

[Zamasu 258]

4 minutes ago, silversolver said:

So weird to quit a marathon at mile 25.9.......

Is it though? It's currently mile 25.9, but that would be of the estimated 10 miles, which has shifted by 2 miles every time the end got close. The marathon might just end at mile 100. You have to draw the line somewhere.

[silversolver 849]

13 hours ago, matf said:

Thought it couldn't get worse. Was wrong. :] My backup Jolla C is giving up too after I updated OKBoard on a pre 3.0 SFOS version (I couldn't stand the virtual keyboard anymore, had to use OKBoard to make it faster), which seems to have borked all virtual keyboards on the phone, including keypads, including the one to type the unlock code at boot. As a consequence, my Jolla C is now unusable too and I cannot ssh into it because I cannot unlock it to enable Wifi or pick Developper mode as USB connection type. I'm running out of backup phones. :>

I still have my Droid 4 daily driver, a Priv, and even an original droid that still work just fine if the need arises. For people who don't hoard old but still-working devices like I do, I can see where the frustration would be worse. I have 2 fully-functional and fairly friendly keyboard phones in my life; for people who gave up and went slab, or are limping even older stuff than I am, the desperation level would be higher.

[silversolver 849]

1 minute ago, Zamasu said:

Is it though? It's currently mile 25.9, but that would be of the estimated 10 miles, which has shifted by 2 miles every time the end got close. The marathon might just end at mile 100. You have to draw the line somewhere.

The finish line. :)

[Zamasu 258]

2 minutes ago, silversolver said:

The finish line. 🙂

Well, not everybody is willing to never cancel. Some people would rather get their money back if in a hypothetical situation, the ship might be sinking, or they'd still wouldn't have the phone in 2022. But good to know you're willing to do that then.

[silversolver 849]

Just now, Zamasu said:

Well, not everybody is willing to never cancel. Some people would rather get their money back if in a hypothetical situation, the ship might be sinking, or they'd still wouldn't have the phone in 2022. But good to know you're willing to do that then.

I can afford to lose my investment in my Pro1 if the ship sinks, though I don't see that happening, and I fully expect to have it before 2020, but again, I can wait longer  if need be. My Droid 4 and Priv still work.

[windraver 63]

Damn fedex and US customs. Thanks to Erik for the updates. I wasn't part of the first batch but those import issues were making me uncomfortable so its good to hear they have a plan to solve it.

[matf-kabouik 414]

9 hours ago, silversolver said:

I still have my Droid 4 daily driver, a Priv, and even an original droid that still work just fine if the need arises. For people who don't hoard old but still-working devices like I do, I can see where the frustration would be worse. I have 2 fully-functional and fairly friendly keyboard phones in my life; for people who gave up and went slab, or are limping even older stuff than I am, the desperation level would be higher.

Actually I still have my old phones too, including a Jolla (first model) and multiple N900s. The issue is they are not all in a working state software-wise because I tend to fiddle with them as soon as they become the backup phones, and sometimes finish the work, sometimes leave them in a bad state. But most importantly, the batteries of my phones older than the Jolla C are all dead. The Jolla fails to report the actual percentage, it will show about 90% for one hour, then 50% for 3 hours, then it will die; the N900s report the correct percentages but only last a few hours.

I've factory reset one of my Jolla C (the other one is already being used by my girlfriend). I was surprised to see that installing Alien Dalvik from the Jolla Store now installs Play Store instead of Yandex Store, that's excellent news.

Edited November 28, 2019 by matf

[glumreaper 144]

11 hours ago, silversolver said:

BOO!!!! Why on earth would you do that?! Then if (when?) you decide you'd like one again later, you're paying more. So weird to quit a marathon at mile 25.9.......

Since you ask. For me it came down to two aspects:

I need a phone. It's an important tool for me to communicate among several different channels. Moreover without much time or opportunity to get my laptop out, my phone is my de facto primary computing device. I've been using a ropey old phone since June when I placed my Pro1 order, thinking "it only has to last a month". As you say, we may well be near the finish, but as another commenter put it - this marathon has been getting longer and longer. Given that we haven't been told that the second batch has left China yet, and given that the first batch took 3+ weeks between leaving China and reaching customers, I feel that the support team's estimate of 20/12/2019 for devices to be sent on their final hop to customers is optimistic at best. And getting one-day delivery that close to Christmas is unlikely. So I really don't think I would've seen the phone this year, and December will be a busy month for me in which I will need a reliable phone. It seems to me that FXtec have done their best to foster a feeling of "it's nearly here guys, hang on!" and I'm sure at least some of their staff believe that. But you can't keep hanging on like that forever, and the thought of another month or more wearies me.

The second thing is less practical and more emotional. I don't feel that I fully trust FXtec at this point. There have been months of delays - to which I don't object, these things happen especially if you're doing something so new and bold. Delays are understandable. But FXtec have performed abysmally at communicating the current status to customers. They haven't directly lied, but I think there have been several cases of at worst dishonesty by omission, or at best a staggering lack of skill at communication. If you're doing something new like this, and have a customer base of enthusiastic techies, and if you yourself are more an engineer than a PR person (to quote another commenter), then bring your customers along on the journey! Tell them every detail! The epiphany for me came after that thread came up about AdUps. I'm apparently nowhere near as knowledgeable as others in this forum about Android and its inner workings. So I started researching for myself. While I was doing this it suddenly struck me as farcical. Here I was spending time learning some in-depth technical things about Android, so that I could work out whether or not I still trust FXtec. And so I realised that was the answer to the question. If I have to do that, I probably don't trust them enough. I believe in their goals, and I admire them for what they're doing. But right now, it's not right for me.

I will watch with interest what happens. When the Pro1 achieves general availability, and when I see more folks and wider news sources using it and commenting on it, I'll review my position and will likely pick one up later. If there's a Pro2, maybe I'll go in on that. But right now, I'm out.

Edited November 28, 2019 by glumreaper

[robert.prior1985 97]

58 minutes ago, glumreaper said:

Since you ask. For me it came down to two aspects:

I need a phone. It's an important tool for me to communicate among several different channels. Moreover without much time or opportunity to get my laptop out, my phone is my de facto primary computing device. I've been using a ropey old phone since June when I placed my Pro1 order, thinking "it only has to last a month". As you say, we may well be near the finish, but as another commenter put it - this marathon has been getting longer and longer. Given that we haven't been told that the second batch has left China yet, and given that the first batch took 3+ weeks between leaving China and reaching customers, I feel that the support team's estimate of 20/12/2019 for devices to be sent on their final hop to customers is optimistic at best. And getting one-day delivery that close to Christmas is unlikely. So I really don't think I would've seen the phone this year, and December will be a busy month for me in which I will need a reliable phone. It seems to me that FXtec have done their best to foster a feeling of "it's nearly here guys, hang on!" and I'm sure at least some of their staff believe that. But you can't keep hanging on like that forever, and the thought of another month or more wearies me.

The second thing is less practical and more emotional. I don't feel that I fully trust FXtec at this point. There have been months of delays - to which I don't object, these things happen especially if you're doing something so new and bold. Delays are understandable. But FXtec have performed abysmally at communicating the current status to customers. They haven't directly lied, but I think there have been several cases of at worst dishonesty by omission, or at best a staggering lack of skill at communication. If you're doing something new like this, and have a customer base of enthusiastic techies, and if you yourself are more an engineer than a PR person (to quote another commenter), then bring your customers along on the journey! Tell them every detail! The epiphany for me came after that thread came up about AdUps. I'm apparently nowhere near as knowledgeable as others in this forum about Android and its inner workings. So I started researching for myself. While I was doing this it suddenly struck me as farcical. Here I was spending time learning some in-depth technical things about Android, so that I could work out whether or not I still trust FXtec. And so I realised that was the answer to the question. If I have to do that, I probably don't trust them enough. I believe in their goals, and I admire them for what they're doing. But right now, it's not right for me.

I will watch with interest what happens. When the Pro1 achieves general availability, and when I see more folks and wider news sources using it and commenting on it, I'll review my position and will likely pick one up later. If there's a Pro2, maybe I'll go in on that. But right now, I'm out.

I see what you are saying.

It also does seem a lot of people are getting a bit OTT about whether people should keep their order or ask for a refund. As far as I am concerned at this present time I can hold out for a bit longer, however, £650 is actually a notable amount to be out of my Bank Account so I will have to make an assessment towards the end of December.

You raised a good point in regards to to no comm's. I used to love the updates in regards to the glass being used and software upgrades and how things were coming along. Now it does seem a little radio silence has kicked in and poor @Erik has to respond when it gets to a point of many people asking and repeating the same questions (then creating their own hypothesis).

I am currently in a Tyra Banks place: 'We were all routing for you!'  Lol

I am here for this phone as it literally answers all I need (and want) so holding out with a belief but my current broke down handset is testing me. I swear it knows its gonna be replaced and is now inviting any 'Tech Gremlin' to be comfortable inside of it! 👽👾☠️

Here's to the hope we all get a fabulous handset in time for Christmas! 🙂

[Sero 89]

1 hour ago, glumreaper said:

The second thing is less practical and more emotional. I don't feel that I fully trust FXtec at this point. There have been months of delays - to which I don't object, these things happen especially if you're doing something so new and bold. Delays are understandable. But FXtec have performed abysmally at communicating the current status to customers. They haven't directly lied, but I think there have been several cases of at worst dishonesty by omission, or at best a staggering lack of skill at communication. If you're doing something new like this, and have a customer base of enthusiastic techies, and if you yourself are more an engineer than a PR person (to quote another commenter), then bring your customers along on the journey! Tell them every detail! The epiphany for me came after that thread came up about AdUps. I'm apparently nowhere near as knowledgeable as others in this forum about Android and its inner workings. So I started researching for myself. While I was doing this it suddenly struck me as farcical. Here I was spending time learning some in-depth technical things about Android, so that I could work out whether or not I still trust FXtec. And so I realised that was the answer to the question. If I have to do that, I probably don't trust them enough. I believe in their goals, and I admire them for what they're doing. But right now, it's not right for me.

I think the thing is that being such a small company, this isn't likely to change majorly until after they're successfully over this project. They've made changes sure, but it's not going to be until everyone's back in the same place and they have a couple hours to spare to really go over every aspect of the project (as communication isn't the only hurdle they've hit!).

To anyone from Fxtec that looks at the forums, as a start please at some point spend a commute listening to the 99PI episode Wait Wait...Tell Me! -- it provides a high-level overview of waiting. It's mostly in relation to software but the ideas and research extend past that. While I'm perfectly happy to wait, my frustration comes from constantly being told something's going to happen and then it doesn't, with no explanation. Something not going to plan is alright, but not following up on these things is just a recipe for backlash.

That being said, @Erik's latest post on the updates thread is good and very much appreciated. No issues with that 🙂

Edited November 28, 2019 by Serolfic

[A Dude 99]

58 minutes ago, robert.prior1985 said:

Here's to the hope we all get a fabulous handset in time for Christmas!

As usual with shipping around Christmas - if phones are not leaving China before 2019-12-06, I do not see a pre-Christmas delivery happening. At least not here in Germany. Priority Air-mail might be able to cut the transportation time down to 5 work days, but that would probably be very expensive. 7-10wdays for 'normal shipping' from China to Germany is usual. Adding 2..3 days due to Christmas-heavy-traffic this would set us at 12..15 work days, resulting in monday 2019-12-09 being the last day where a shipment could be sent out from Hong Kong or China with a hope to reach a customer in Germany before Christmas eve.

So as far as things went until now - I'm not holding my breath..

[Krzysieq 55]

A week has gone by and noone else got their toy? 

[silversolver 849]

4 hours ago, glumreaper said:

Since you ask. For me it came down to two aspects:

Well, I have come to some important conclusions about you. 1. You're a rational person who composes great essays and keeps a level head even when booed. :O 2. You'll be back for one later. :)

I am sorry that life happened and you had to do something different. It does look like you quit at the finish line, as it sounds like the second batch has already left the factory, but sometimes we do have to choose between what we'd prefer and what we can get to meet an urgent need right now, and this was clearly one of those cases.

I am sad that trust has become an issue for you. I'm sure that will be short-term. The most open phone ever made cannot fail to win trust once it's in the wild.

And don't worry; there will always be some iSucker eager to receive whatever device you bought as a stop-gap measure. :P

[silversolver 849]

3 hours ago, A Dude said:

As usual with shipping around Christmas - if phones are not leaving China before 2019-12-06, I do not see a pre-Christmas delivery happening. At least not here in Germany. Priority Air-mail might be able to cut the transportation time down to 5 work days, but that would probably be very expensive. 7-10wdays for 'normal shipping' from China to Germany is usual. Adding 2..3 days due to Christmas-heavy-traffic this would set us at 12..15 work days, resulting in monday 2019-12-09 being the last day where a shipment could be sent out from Hong Kong or China with a hope to reach a customer in Germany before Christmas eve.

So as far as things went until now - I'm not holding my breath..

All signs point to the high likelihood that the second batch has already left the factory, or will be leaving any moment now.

[Zamasu 258]

2 hours ago, silversolver said:

as it sounds like the second batch has already left the factory

Did I miss something?

1 hour ago, silversolver said:

All signs point to the high likelihood that the second batch has already left the factory, or will be leaving any moment now.

Oh,  I guess not. Which signs? Just the message that they're supposed to leave this week? Because I haven't seen any updates past that, and I wouldn't call that a high likelihood to the second batch being shipped already. In fact the absence of any message makes it seem likely they haven't been shipped yet in my opinion.

[silversolver 849]

3 minutes ago, Zamasu said:

Did I miss something?

Oh,  I guess not. Which signs? Just the message that they're supposed to leave this week? Because I haven't seen any updates past that, and I wouldn't call that a high likelihood to the second batch being shipped already. In fact the absence of any message makes it seem likely they haven't been shipped yet in my opinion.

Updates from Erik combined with the reply glumreaper received seem to indicate this.

[Zamasu 258]

1 minute ago, silversolver said:

Updates from Erik combined with the reply glumreaper received seem to indicate this.

Erik hasn't posted anything new, and Glumreaper says "Given that we haven't been told that the second batch has left China yet". Support seems to just be wrong, No way the phones are due to arrive at the end of this month considering nobody received tracking yet. End of next month doesn't mean much either.

[silversolver 849]

3 minutes ago, Zamasu said:

Erik hasn't posted anything new, and Glumreaper says "Given that we haven't been told that the second batch has left China yet". Support seems to just be wrong, No way the phones are due to arrive at the end of this month considering nobody received tracking yet. End of next month doesn't mean much either.

Glumreaper posted yesterday that when he requested a refund, "I got one reply just now asking if I was sure since devices are now shipping, and: 'The second batch due to arrive by the end of this month will include your order.' "

[Zamasu 258]

1 minute ago, silversolver said:

Glumreaper posted yesterday that when he requested a refund, "I got one reply just now asking if I was sure since devices are now shipping, and: 'The second batch due to arrive by the end of this month will include your order.' "

Yes, and now read my whole post, specifically this part: " Support seems to just be wrong, No way the phones are due to arrive at the end of this month considering nobody received tracking yet. End of next month doesn't mean much either. " We should've gotten tracking codes yesterday if they were to arrive before the weekend.

It'll take at least 3 more weeks for the phones to arrive. Please don't make people think they'll get them tomorrow.