Something special is coming...

[FlyingAntero 869]

People should remember that F(x)tec is a really small company that has brought something unique to the market. They have tried their best and I have to give credit to them. Sure, F(x)tec could do things better. Pro1 is not a perfect device and it has its issues. But in the end of the day what other options do you have if you want smartphone with keyboard? There are some alternatives but no other company has a QWERTY slider available. (Astro Slide 5G is coming of course).

If you can live without keyboard then you have plenty of choices and you can skip Pro1-X. If keyboard is s must then you can consider Pro1-X. It is not a killer device but a reasonable for the price. It still has similar performance with SD765 devices from 300$ to 600$

Pro1 (SD835)

Nord (SD765G)

[EskeRahn 5,427]

5 hours ago, uazz said:

Covid did not break anything,

🤣😷

[Hook 2,945]

7 hours ago, uazz said:

How releasing new device where fxtec screams "get lineage or ubuntu!!" can fix current Android? You can't be that naive! It looks more like they are abandoning current Android 9 so users

Just pointing out that introducing these new OS alternatives does not directly affect work on Android as these are all done by three different teams (and none of them the small group of folks at F(x) Tec). IdeaLTE, a contractor, still does Android for the Pro1.  They have apparently just received the official base for Android 10 and would assume work is now being focused on getting that ready. Android will probably always be a bit slow because they depend on Google including for patches and certification and they are pretty low on the priority list.  Which is why Lineage can be improved more quickly and will likely have Android 10 (Lineage 17) much faster.

[VaZso 1,997]

7 hours ago, uazz said:

How releasing new device where fxtec screams "get lineage or ubuntu!!" can fix current Android?

Because it is the same hardware and the more phones they sell the more reason to invest further also in software development.

Moreover, not necessarily stock Android is the best choice (also for existing users) but Lineage OS itself which can be installed both on "old" Pro1 and Pro1-X.
I don't know how can they solve NFC-based payments using Lineage OS (if it can be solved at all), but if that is possible in a correct way, the best option would be Lineage OS...

7 hours ago, uazz said:

Covid did not break anything, you can fix software working from HOME.

It depends (on how the company - I mean IdeaLTE - was prepared for working at home).

7 hours ago, uazz said:

And about microSD cards, Pro1 can't read any of the 3 cards I have in home and I won't buy another just to check if it may work.

I find it strange.

I am currently using a 512 GB Samsung card in my Pro1 and it works.

So if you have three cards which are working in other machines and don't work in your Pro1, then your Pro1 may have a faulty socket (hardware issue) or a software issue which is practically an Android problem.

However, Android should at least show you a question to reformat the SD card, then it should work.

So, what phenomenon you exactly had?
Did Android even detect the card inserted?
Could you elaborate it a bit?

[jlavi 112]

On 10/27/2020 at 11:14 PM, FlyingAntero said:

I ordered 8/256Gt variant with Scandinavian layout.

I did the same. But fool me twice, shame on me. I still haven't even got the first phone after 350 days of waiting.

[BufferBear 9]

20 hours ago, lameboyadvance said:

...Just a reminder to @BufferBear and others, there is a secret XDA IndieGoGo link that lets you choose a normally hidden pledge of a 8/256 model for only US$639/-28% off. Currently only 39 out of the 100 on offer have been claimed, and it seems to be the best deal still currently available.

If you click on this link (originally provided by eldarion a couple of pages back) it shows the normally hidden XDA exclusive pledge: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/pro1-x-smartphone-functionality-choice-control?secret_perk_token=2c0a82a4#/

@lameboyadvanceDamn!  Could have saved £30!  Nevermind and thanks for sharing. 🙂

[BufferBear 9]

17 hours ago, PanicBrothers said:

🤣🤣🤣

We are sorry for all the time you are waiting for your Pro1 but we had a lot of issues with covid here and toiletpaper there and ...bla bla bla bla bla.

Meanwhile we take your money and let you wait for the Pro1 but please check your mails for a Status change. We do our best to get all ordered devices asap out of our hard working factory and it is so tricky with covid to get any "bitches" sorry "batches" out.

Wohooooooooooo the wait is over we are proud to present:

The new chance to get your money for PreOrder. Here it is the Pro1 X Future Titanium Diamond Gold again waiting for trackingnumber device.

Unbelivable that even one is spending any cent for this lyinf company.

 

Depends on one's motivation.  I have a trusty KeyOne which will not last forever and I'm prepared to take a risk on the FX 1 as it's exciting.  My second phone will be the new BlackBerry.   One can never have too many PKBs in my view and I've weighed up the risks.  Just as importantly, from time to time we should reward ourselves with our hard-earned pennies. 

[BufferBear 9]

20 minutes ago, jlavi said:

I did the same. But fool me twice, shame on me. I still haven't even got the first phone after 350 days of waiting.

Long time to wait and is why I didn't order the first time around given the initial delays.  Would be very difficult for fX-Tec to not sort this out now which I suspect they've planned given this new launch. As for the length of time you've waited, I would expect a 256/8 as compensation.

[BufferBear 9]

15 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

With the Pro1 you can flash either of the images, and I expect the same to be the case for the upped variant Pro1x. The difference will be the image that is pre-installed. And it seems the etching on the back.

Thanks for feeding back but unfortunately I do not understand.  I'm wondering whether to choose the Pro1x with Lineage or Android and I'm guessing the latter given I didn't comprehend your post.  I'm not techie but just liked the idea of using a different OS...probably out of my league.

 

Thank you, @EskeRahn

[EskeRahn 5,427]

1 hour ago, BufferBear said:

Thanks for feeding back but unfortunately I do not understand.  I'm wondering whether to choose the Pro1x with Lineage or Android and I'm guessing the latter given I didn't comprehend your post.  I'm not techie but just liked the idea of using a different OS...probably out of my league.

 

Thank you, @EskeRahn

Sorry for being unclear - not a native English speaker.

The only difference will be what is pre-installed when you get it. And possibly a logo print on the back.

So it does not really matter what OS you choose, you can swap later as you please.

There will be guides on how to do that. (I believe they are working on making it even easier than t is on the existing Pro1)
They are even talking about "dual boot" so we can install more than one system and select at boot time.  😁

[OKSun 103]

19 hours ago, VaZso said:

IdeaLTE

How do these android software customisation work? Is it not possible for Fxtec to change supplier for the android stock customization? Since IdeaLTE does not seem to deliver? Does google limit these options?

It seems that the situation is so difficult that fx tec has to launch a phone with another operating system? And we are not even sure whether banking apps will work?

I have another phone from another small company "Cyrus" (outdoor phones). It receives stock android software updates every month.

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by OKSun
english

[3zet 100]

19 hours ago, VaZso said:

I don't know how can they solve NFC-based payments using Lineage OS (if it can be solved at all), but if that is possible in a correct way, the best option would be Lineage OS...

works like a charm, just you need to turn off the root in dev settings.

[VaZso 1,997]

54 minutes ago, 3zet said:

works like a charm, just you need to turn off the root in dev settings.

Thanks, it is very good to know.

[brunoais 334]

5 hours ago, OKSun said:

How do these android software customisation work? Is it not possible for Fxtec to change supplier for the android stock customization? Since IdeaLTE does not seem to deliver? Does google limit these options?

In my interpretation of the hard-to-read docs, it has to be done by a certified company with android certifications and such.

2 hours ago, 3zet said:

works like a charm, just you need to turn off the root in dev settings.

Does it require a reboot afterwards or is it just straightforward change the setting and maybe restart the app?

[3zet 100]

17 minutes ago, brunoais said:

Does it require a reboot afterwards or is it just straightforward change the setting and maybe restart the app?

No restarts, just turn off the setting and reopen the app. 

[tdm 2,322]

10 hours ago, OKSun said:

How do these android software customisation work? Is it not possible for Fxtec to change supplier for the android stock customization? Since IdeaLTE does not seem to deliver? Does google limit these options?

It seems that the situation is so difficult that fx tec has to launch a phone with another operating system? And we are not even sure whether banking apps will work?

I have another phone from another small company "Cyrus" (outdoor phones). It receives stock android software updates every month.

 

 

There are many considerations to stock/factory software.  Here is a (probably not complete) list from someone who has been relatively close to the process in the past but not directly involved:

 

* The software must be cryptographically signed.  IdeaLTE has the private device key and, as far as I know, FxTec does not have a copy.  So FxTec has no way of generating valid software unless they get that key from IdeaLTE.

 

* The software must be loaded at the factory.  This means FxTec would need to provide software in the format that IdeaLTE requires, which is probably not a big deal, but it does mean that FxTec would need access to the entire BSP (which it mostly has, but not quite).

 

* The software must be able to be used for factory testing (eg. quality control).  Any changes that IdeaLTE has made to the standard BSP for testing must be preserved by FxTec.

 

* The software must be able to pass Google certification.  This is a long, involved, and expensive process.  It requires contracts be signed between FxTec (or their chosen provider) and Google.  Each submission is quite expensive (five years ago it was $10,000 for each run, it may be more now).  So the submitter must make sure that it will pass certification beforehand.  This typically takes weeks to get right.

 

* Because certification is such an arduous and expensive process, software updates are not usually done often.  There are rules about which updates require additional payment and which do not.  I don't know the details, but I believe they mostly revolving around fixing security flaws.  Feature updates most surely require another payment.

 

I Hope that sheds some light on why things are done the way they are in the Google/Android world.

 

There is more to say about the specific details of FxTec and IdeaLTE and how things have (not) worked, but I don't feel it is my place to go into that.  I wish FxTec was more communicative, but for some reason they don't feel a need to say much about it.  Let's just say that IDEA is not IDEAL.  🤣

 

[ToniCipriani 194]

3 hours ago, tdm said:

 

There are many considerations to stock/factory software.  Here is a (probably not complete) list from someone who has been relatively close to the process in the past but not directly involved:

 

* The software must be cryptographically signed.  IdeaLTE has the private device key and, as far as I know, FxTec does not have a copy.  So FxTec has no way of generating valid software unless they get that key from IdeaLTE.

 

* The software must be loaded at the factory.  This means FxTec would need to provide software in the format that IdeaLTE requires, which is probably not a big deal, but it does mean that FxTec would need access to the entire BSP (which it mostly has, but not quite).

 

* The software must be able to be used for factory testing (eg. quality control).  Any changes that IdeaLTE has made to the standard BSP for testing must be preserved by FxTec.

 

* The software must be able to pass Google certification.  This is a long, involved, and expensive process.  It requires contracts be signed between FxTec (or their chosen provider) and Google.  Each submission is quite expensive (five years ago it was $10,000 for each run, it may be more now).  So the submitter must make sure that it will pass certification beforehand.  This typically takes weeks to get right.

 

* Because certification is such an arduous and expensive process, software updates are not usually done often.  There are rules about which updates require additional payment and which do not.  I don't know the details, but I believe they mostly revolving around fixing security flaws.  Feature updates most surely require another payment.

 

I Hope that sheds some light on why things are done the way they are in the Google/Android world.

 

There is more to say about the specific details of FxTec and IdeaLTE and how things have (not) worked, but I don't feel it is my place to go into that.  I wish FxTec was more communicative, but for some reason they don't feel a need to say much about it.  Let's just say that IDEA is not IDEAL.  🤣

 

TL;DR... only thing I got out of that is that Google shot themselves in the foot by making the update process atrocious. Basically they caused the slow updates and fragmentation themselves, especially when manufacturers actually have an incentive to not update.

[Val 75]

@Waxberry @Erik @Elysia

No VAT reverse charge payment option for B2B invoices (EU countries)?

[BufferBear 9]

23 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

Sorry for being unclear - not a native English speaker.

The only difference will be what is pre-installed when you get it. And possibly a logo print on the back.

So it does not really matter what OS you choose, you can swap later as you please.

There will be guides on how to do that. (I believe they are working on making it even easier than t is on the existing Pro1)
They are even talking about "dual boot" so we can install more than one system and select at boot time.  😁

Thank you very much, Eske.  Your language skills are not the issue and are far better than mine. I only speak English! The issue was not understanding what the disadvantages are with Lineage as an Android user without technical knowledge.  I'm curious and want to explore other options.  I've just posted on IndieGoGo with a similar question but I think I will just settle with Lineage and learn how to change to Android if needed.  I was interested to hear Chen & Co on the video footage suggesting both OS can be added by way of partitioning.  I'm not sure what this means IT-wise and assume the OS can be loaded in two different sections of the memory, thus, the ability to switch to both.

 

Thanks very much for taking the time to reply.

Edited October 30, 2020 by BufferBear
Misspelling - auto correct Eske to Esse!

[EskeRahn 5,427]

1 hour ago, BufferBear said:

Thank you very much, Eske.  Your language skills are not the issue and are far better than mine. I only speak English! The issue was not understanding what the disadvantages are with Lineage as an Android user without technical knowledge.  I'm curious and want to explore other options.  I've just posted on IndieGoGo with a similar question but I think I will just settle with Lineage and learn how to change to Android if needed.  I was interested to hear Chen & Co on the video footage suggesting both OS can be added by way of partitioning.  I'm not sure what this means IT-wise and assume the OS can be loaded in two different sections of the memory, thus, the ability to switch to both.

 

Thanks very much for taking the time to reply.

Yes as I understand it they are experimenting with "dual boot", allowing us to have more than one system on the device at a time. And with 256GB, splitting it should not be a problem for the majority.
I personally hope for the ability to have a primary Lineage partition, and then a small one with Stock Android for any picky apps, that will not run on Lineage. (And for debugging if something do not run as expected under Lineage)

[Rob. S. 1,647]

https://www.golem.de/news/mit-lineage-os-xda-developers-bringen-eigenes-smartphone-2010-151780.html (German)

[FlyingAntero 869]

I noticed that there was interesting information revealed in the Indiegogo page.

• Pro1 X Smartphone Functionality, Choice & Control

Quote

We are super confident in our ability to bring the Pro1-X to market based on our experience with the Pro1. This saw us successfully manufacturing and shipping thousands of devices internationally over the last 12 months.

First units were delivered to customers at the turn of October-November 2019 so I believe that "thousands of devices" covers every manufactured unit so far. Back in January 2020, it was estimated that F(x)tec had sold about 1000-1400 units while the highest serial number posted to the forum was #1011. Most of the devices were pre-ordered in 2019. Currently highest known serial number is #2155 so maybe another 1000+ devices are/will be sold in 2020?

I think that "thousands of devices" means something like 2500 or maybe 3000 units. Now there are little bit over 500 backers at the Indiegogo for Pro1-X. Typically 42% of funds are raised in the first and last 3 days of the campaign’s duration (U-curve, link). So, 1000+ backers would be realistic goal for F(x)tec.

In summary, F(x)tec could be selling 1000-1500 devices per year (if you count Indiegogo funds for 2021). I hope that it is enough to run the company and that we will see more devices in future. What do you think about these numbers? How well has F(x)tec succeeded?

[3zet 100]

40 minutes ago, FlyingAntero said:

What do you think about these numbers?

Numbers? Someone FINALLY released a finished product! You can believe or not, there was at least 4 projects of qwerty devices (3 of them from before 2017, not by Adrian and Chen, 1 was the qwerty addon for moto by them) and that thing is already huge success. 

[FlyingAntero 869]

20 minutes ago, 3zet said:

Numbers? Someone FINALLY released a finished product! You can believe or not, there was at least 4 projects of qwerty devices (3 of them from before 2017, not by Adrian and Chen, 1 was the qwerty addon for moto by them) and that thing is already huge success. 

I was not trying to understate F(x)tec. I really like their work and I hope that they will continue business. Pro1 is my daily driver and I already backed Pro1-X. I was also a backer for Moto Mod keyboard.

I was just trying to discuss how well F(x)tec has done in business manner? Is there room for growth? I have heard several times that there is demand for QWERTY phones but no product that you can buy. Now we have a great product but it is not for masses as long as you have to pre-order it via Indiegogo etc.

Edited November 2, 2020 by FlyingAntero

[EskeRahn 5,427]

2 hours ago, 3zet said:

Numbers? Someone FINALLY released a finished product! You can believe or not, there was at least 4 projects of qwerty devices (3 of them from before 2017, not by Adrian and Chen, 1 was the qwerty addon for moto by them) and that thing is already huge success. 

Well on the last "them" part. AFAIK the Moto Mod was a Chen only project. Adrian and Chen created F(x)tec together to create the Pro1.