Pro¹ X – state of production and delivery

[Hook 3,018]

Hook wanders in, excited that he just got an email with a tracking number for his Pro1x, notices that he seems to be interrupting some weighty discussion and scampers back out of the thread.

[throwaway9284939 6]

17 hours ago, Rob. S. said:

For me, connectivity is not good but usable, both for mobile data and voice, at least as long as I'm running the LTE Discovery app in No-LTE cycle mode. And if I need even more, I carry a tiny mobile router. 

"My phone works sometimes, all I have to do is install this app that fixes an inherent flaw in the OS and carry a black box with me everywhere I go."

[EskeRahn 5,459]

Unfortunately the Pro1X as well as the campaign for it is very far from flawless.

And sure the waiting is frustrating, and we do not even know if the known flaws can be fixed (or even reduced), and if so when. So perhaps a little sarcastic we can hope that this extremely long delivery (see also this) gives them more time to fix what can be fixed, so the agony of the flaws will hit fewer/shorter.

And the only constructive thing we can do really is to report any bugs with as much details we can. And for strange bugs not affection all, perhaps see if we can help finding a pattern, to help them reproduce the bug, that generally is the first step in fixing it.

What would have happened if this or that had been done differently, is contrafactual historywriting, and though interesting in exploring ways to avoid repeating mistakes in the future, is utterly useless in helping to improve the current situation.
It is a bit like talking about what Nokia keyboard phones we might have had if Microsoft did not inject Elop as their Trojan horse to bring the company to its knees so MS could buy it cheap...

[Rob. S. 1,660]

3 hours ago, throwaway9284939 said:

21 hours ago, Rob. S. said:

For me, connectivity is not good but usable, both for mobile data and voice, at least as long as I'm running the LTE Discovery app in No-LTE cycle mode. And if I need even more, I carry a tiny mobile router. 

"My phone works sometimes, all I have to do is install this app that fixes an inherent flaw in the OS and carry a black box with me everywhere I go."

Yes, that's what I said (except it was an 'or', not an 'and', but never mind), and I didn't want to say anything other than that, either. Why do you repeat it? 

It's also what I explicitly mentioned when I offered my first Pro1X on ebay, plus the fact that this is in Germany and even there only with either Vodafone or T-Mobile as carrier. 

It is not my intention to make this device look better than it is. I'm just offering the small experience I have with this faulty phone so that others, too, might find a way to still actually use it instead of throwing it in their drawer or out of their (possibly closed) window and being angry. (Until a fimware update fixes the problem. At least the hope is still there.)

Edited March 15, 2023 by Rob. S.

[claude0001 1,340]

58 minutes ago, Rob. S. said:

I'm just offering the small experience I have with this faulty phone so that others, too, might find a way to still actually use it [...]

Thanks for sharing your experience. As you know, you shouldn't take people too seriously on the internet. Many trolls are actually nice people in everyday life, but somehow flip a switch when they sit down at a keyboard ...

Are you actually able to place and receive calls through VoWiFi while connected to the LTE router? While I don't think I would ever settle for such a solution, technically, the portable hotspot is an interesting workaround.

[Rob. S. 1,660]

36 minutes ago, claude0001 said:

Thanks for sharing your experience. As you know, you shouldn't take people too seriously on the internet. Many trolls are actually nice people in everyday life, but somehow flip a switch when they sit down at a keyboard ...

I admit I'm not completely free from a tendency to overreact on the internet, either...

36 minutes ago, claude0001 said:

Are you actually able to place and receive calls through VoWiFi while connected to the LTE router? While I don't think I would ever settle for such a solution, technically, the portable hotspot is an interesting workaround.

Yes, it usually works pretty well. Except earlier this week when I needed to call an electricity provider, and, after some ten minutes or so of a somehow weak but stable connection, navigating through several tiers of their customer support system, it suddenly broke off just when I had started to actually discuss my issue with someone in charge. But I blame this on a weak signal at the place where I had been, and there are signs that Vodafone has some major problems since a few days around here.

(As of now, I don't really want to consider the other option, which would be that my current QWERTY Pro1X has worse connectivity than my previous QWERTZ Pro1X... Anyway it does seem that I need to be really close to the Wifi router... While, funnily, at least my impression until now  is that it has better GPS precision...)

Edited March 15, 2023 by Rob. S.

[Casey 321]

Relating to LTE connection drops, I've compiled a user manual to fetch modem logs in our beta-testing group. If you are able to reproduce any issues relating to connectivity, please join our program and give it a try!

[EskeRahn 5,459]

17 hours ago, Rob. S. said:

While, funnily, at least my impression until now  is that it has better GPS precision..

I have noticed that the Pro1X has more satellites in view than the Pro1, but the actual position is with a worse accuracy.

[EskeRahn 5,459]

14 minutes ago, Casey said:

Relating to LTE connection drops, I've compiled a user manual to fetch modem logs in our beta-testing group. If you are able to reproduce any issues relating to connectivity, please join our program and give it a try!

The only issue with the Beta-program is the clause where you say that we void our warranty if we join. Not the best way to entice people to help. That is why I didn't join....

Quote

Beta software is not covered by our warranty and the same applies to all results of
usage that may lead to potential hardware damage.

 

[Rob. S. 1,660]

5 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

I have noticed that the Pro1X has more satellites in view than the Pro1, but the actual position is with a worse accuracy.

Indeed, that's what I found, too. Apart from that, though, my second Pro1X seems to be better than the first one.

[Casey 321]

20 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

The only issue with the Beta-program is the clause where you say that we void our warranty if we join. Not the best way to entice people to help. That is why I didn't join....

 

That's a fair comment. We do test these firmware internally first before we share them to our beta group. The current v2.1.6 beta firmware has been widely testing already amongst our community developers and it is stable. Our intention is not to 'deliberately' brick customers' devices. But I understand that most people are reluctant to join based on that clause. 

[EskeRahn 5,459]

4 hours ago, Casey said:

That's a fair comment. We do test these firmware internally first before we share them to our beta group. The current v2.1.6 beta firmware has been widely testing already amongst our community developers and it is stable. Our intention is not to 'deliberately' brick customers' devices. But I understand that most people are reluctant to join based on that clause. 

I might understand a clause like this with "alpha-releases", but the point of "beta" in general (as I Understand it) is to reach a wider group that is ready to accept even severe functional flaws, or even to return the device if bricked, but yet the company still honouring warranty, as the risk of a broken device is expected to be very small, and thus the company takes that risk, to gain the feedback from the users. That a beta test is often limited in numbers is obviously to reduce the risk for the company if many fails seriously.

I'm a little sad that FxTec don't use beta in this way. As we really need many of those experiencing the net-issues to help providing information

Frankly it is almost adding insult to injury to request users that have a device not working for them, to risk their warranty in helping you to fix the bug.... Just saying....

What about a softened clause that says that you still honour the warranty if people provides logging information and/or constructive feedback to FxTec - quid quo pro.

[Hook 3,018]

I would think that a simply worded direct statement that if the phone is bricked, there is no guarantee, written or implied, of recovery would be sufficient.

FxTec isn't Samsung where just flashing an alternative OS voids warranty, even if a hardware failure is unrelated.  You encourage flashing alternative OSs.  I've had two warranty repairs of my Pro1, once with LOS, once with AICP.  Surely if someone bricks their phone by something they did flashing the beta, you would at least work with them to try to unbrick it.  You just need to be covered in the event that the phone can't recover even though there is no hardware malfunction. That would be a very rare case and I, personally, wouldn't worry about it.

I'm, of course, not your lawyer, but this seems reasonable to me. 🙂

Edited March 17, 2023 by Hook

[Casey 321]

@EskeRahn @Hook Agree with you both. It is a quid pro quo, and we also do encourage flashing different OS's, and beta firmwares from us should not void warranty. 

I've gone ahead and updated the Disclaimer. Please spread the word 🙂

[EskeRahn 5,459]

11 minutes ago, Casey said:

@EskeRahn @Hook Agree with you both. It is a quid pro quo, and we also do encourage flashing different OS's, and beta firmwares from us should not void warranty. 

I've gone ahead and updated the Disclaimer. Please spread the word 🙂

Great news, thanks. I will try to find time applying the beta this weekend. 😁

[Acurus 17]

Another batch? That is really nice to see, while I am waiting since May 2020 on my phone, I ordered via web site. 

Edited March 17, 2023 by Acurus

[EskeRahn 5,459]

47 minutes ago, Acurus said:

Another batch? That is really nice to see, while I am waiting since May 2020 on my phone, I ordered via web site. 

It it unauthorized... That is dealing with Chinese factories for you 🤢🤬

 

...I wonder if there are anything NOT hitting these guys....

Though it is not the first time we heard of Chinese factories producing more than ordered, and sell as fakes, though they are as good as the original - (less any warranty and support from FxTec obviously)

I thought that was mostly clothes though....

[Acurus 17]

"unauthorized"? You mean, criminal chinese factories are producing non legal Fixtec-phones, selling them to criminal japanese shops and this shops are selling them with criminal energy to the public? In this case, you are informed very very well.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Acurus

[EskeRahn 5,459]

1 hour ago, Acurus said:

"unauthorized"? You mean, criminal chinese factories are producing non legal Fixtec-phones, selling them to criminal japanese shops and this shops are selling them with criminal energy to the public? In this case, you are informed very very well.

How else would you interpret what the head of the company wrote on twitter?
 

Quote

This is unauthorized and not coming from us.

 

[PoongZY 15]

5 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

How else would you interpret what the head of the company wrote on twitter?
 

 

Chen reply is not ODM issues 

[EskeRahn 5,459]

1 hour ago, PoongZY said:

Chen reply is not ODM issues 

Yes, if it was ODM it would be authorised.

ODM is selling (almost) the same thing with different brand(s), and is fully legal (and authorised). But from the image these are clearly branded with the original FxTec Logo.
So can either be "Extra Production" or devices somehow appropriated before they reached the intended recipient.

[Acurus 17]

If you are so well informed, about what is going on, please tell us the difference: Is the selling "unauthorized"? Is the production "unauthorized"? Or both? Or does japanese shops selling faked phones?  Why this batch is "unauthorized" or faked or both, while other identical looking batches have been apparently authorized? Why this phone is always selling everywhere, but not in the hands of the persons, who ordered it?

[Rob. S. 1,660]

@Acurus Wherever those devices come from, just like the last batch offered on that site, it says "product that has not been used", but "has been opened" and "phones [...] are energized to check their operation". Of course I have not the faintest idea which exact path the phones may have taken, but that statement makes it clear that the sources, whoever they are, cannot and do not guarantee that the devices even work, so they can hardly be coming from Fxtec or on any path authorized by Fxtec.

If I had to speculate, @EskeRahn's "somehow appropriated before they reached the intended recipient" could be at the bottom of it. There are a few options imaginable about how those devices could have gotten into the wrong hands.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Rob. S.

[EskeRahn 5,459]

2 hours ago, Acurus said:

If you are so well informed, about what is going on

I wish I were, but only drawing what I see as the logical conclusion of the scraps of information we got here. But there might be other explanations beyond what I imagined possible.

[749121 16]

On 3/14/2023 at 7:02 PM, throwaway9284939 said:

Except by the time I get mine it will barely have any value left. As there have been countless threads on here of connecitivity issues, broken promises related to OS development, Expansys having a backdoor deal and people getting phones in only two days from them as opposed to two years for people who actually backed it, perks not being fulfulled in their entirety, and setback after setback with no response from FxTec beyond canned marketing quotes. By the time this phone arrives it will be worthless, its chips were already obsolete when production started. It will be nowhere near the $800+ I paid for the enthusaist bundle (including two replacement screens and a battery that will be long dead when it arrives, neither of which will show up either). This is becoming Mighty No. 9 levels of disaster, overpromise and underdeliver (or in this case, just don't deliver at all).

I've already purchased a new phone in the meantime, so I am now down a total of $1200 just because I wanted a libre phone that worked. Such a shame that XDA attached itself to a project that went this bad this quickly. 

I can only say that, as it sounds as though I am pretty much in exactly the same boat as you (I too am over 3,000 in the IGG backers' queue), I feel your pain completely and pretty much agree with the feelings you express here.  But I think the subsequent posters are unfortunately almost certainly right: unless we could prove fraud against Fxtec themselves - which personally I very much doubt they are guilty of and certainly am sure could not be proven even if I'm wrong - we have no real recourse as backers and our money is lost, unless and until we get a phone we can use or can sell, to mitigate our losses.   

I'm basically just trying to tell myself that shit happens, and just to let it go and put the whole thing down to experience.  Which is a hell of a lot easier said than done!