Are you planning on seeking a refund if you do not receive your device by Christmas (Dec 25)?

[silversolver 849]

1 hour ago, theory said:

I sent the following message to support about 10 min ago...

Placed my pre-order on 09MAR2019.

Paid in full on 01AUG2019 when I got the payment request.

Order number 83xx.  Total $698.54 including tax.

On 06NOV2019 I contacted support asking where my phone was as it had been 96 days since my credit card was charged.

In part, the reply was

'The first batch of the Pro1 has now been shipped, and some of our customers will start having their orders delivered in the coming week. As this is a relatively small batch, it doesn't seem like it includes your order. The next batches will follow in mid-November. Please keep an eye on your email for the latest updates.'

It is now the middle of December, 138 days since my card was charged.

Three days ago, my current phone died while traveling.  I was forced to find a cheap, right NOW replacement... an HTC626.

I am now using a 5 year old phone that was pretty low performance when it was new.

By the time you get this, it will be 15DEC2019.

I no longer have any more time to waste.  I need to get a replacement phone now.

So, by 31DEC2019, I either need a tracking number showing that the phone is in the hands of the carrier, (not a 'shipping label generated' message), or a full refund to my credit card.

At that time, you will have had 153 days since payment to have filled my order.

Enough is enough.

If you will be unable to complete my order by 31DEC2019, please refund my payment.

Thank you,

--

Why do you feel the need to post your tantrum in multiple places? I think many will be sympathetic with your plight, but not your attitude.

[theory 15]

2 hours ago, silversolver said:

Why do you feel the need to post your tantrum in multiple places? I think many will be sympathetic with your plight, but not your attitude.

Didn't see this thread until I'd already posted on the other one.  This thread seemed far more on point.

I wish them all the luck in the world, and if they get the issues fixed, I expect I'll be back.

Oh, by the way, from another Michigander, hope you are enjoying the weather...  I'll be back in it in about 8-10 days...

--

[DutchFIX 9]

Sorry to say i just canceled my order after i got the december update from Fx. The possible delivery of "end of January" and speak of QWERTZ European layouts and i'm using QWERTY as most Dutch do (i think), and any QWERTY being assigned to US shipments backlog, this delivery date is not an option anymore.

I'm not following the forum that much but a really don't have any crunch at Fx Tec other then an phone that, although with a great keyboard, is aging fast with the choice of other hardware components. With the price drops on other premium phones continuing every month, the price i paid is no longer cutting it compared to others. 

No bad words about anything else, just my illusion shattered.  

 

 

[silversolver 849]

3 hours ago, DutchFIX said:

Sorry to say i just canceled my order after i got the december update from Fx. The possible delivery of "end of January" and speak of QWERTZ European layouts and i'm using QWERTY as most Dutch do (i think), and any QWERTY being assigned to US shipments backlog, this delivery date is not an option anymore.

I'm not following the forum that much but a really don't have any crunch at Fx Tec other then an phone that, although with a great keyboard, is aging fast with the choice of other hardware components. With the price drops on other premium phones continuing every month, the price i paid is no longer cutting it compared to others. 

No bad words about anything else, just my illusion shattered.  

 

 

My Droid 4 (on it now) is aging fast too....if we call the Pro1's specs 2017, that will be 5 years newer, and the P1 is not really that dated in specs. On top of that, there's a limit to how much "specs" translate into actual usable performance. If a keyboard is a curiosity to you, I can understand your actions. If a keyboard is the heart and soul of your mobile life, as it is to me, then that would be cutting off your nose to spite your face. We all decide what is important to us. A real keyboard is far more important to me than meaningless specs that don't actually improve usability.

[Guest]

On 12/15/2019 at 1:48 AM, theory said:

I sent the following message to support about 10 min ago...

Placed my pre-order on 09MAR2019.

Paid in full on 01AUG2019 when I got the payment request.

Order number 83xx.  Total $698.54 including tax.

On 06NOV2019 I contacted support asking where my phone was as it had been 96 days since my credit card was charged.

In part, the reply was

'The first batch of the Pro1 has now been shipped, and some of our customers will start having their orders delivered in the coming week. As this is a relatively small batch, it doesn't seem like it includes your order. The next batches will follow in mid-November. Please keep an eye on your email for the latest updates.'

It is now the middle of December, 138 days since my card was charged.

Three days ago, my current phone died while traveling.  I was forced to find a cheap, right NOW replacement... an HTC626.

I am now using a 5 year old phone that was pretty low performance when it was new.

By the time you get this, it will be 15DEC2019.

I no longer have any more time to waste.  I need to get a replacement phone now.

So, by 31DEC2019, I either need a tracking number showing that the phone is in the hands of the carrier, (not a 'shipping label generated' message), or a full refund to my credit card.

At that time, you will have had 153 days since payment to have filled my order.

Enough is enough.

If you will be unable to complete my order by 31DEC2019, please refund my payment.

Thank you,

--

 

fxteam has now informed about the new delay. What is the situation from a legal point of view? Some of the forum users are mentioning a 6 months protection of the money paid in advance? Does this protection end soon? Where did these 6 months come from? Did some of you have spent time looking at the legal situation / reading the small prints?

I really want the fx pro to succeed. It is a great product and I really appreciate that some persons spent time creating such a device. If the legal situation is fine, I will keep waiting. But yeah, legal aspect matters too.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Guest

[Raksura 270]

2 minutes ago, cmar said:

 

fxteam has now informed about the new delay. What is the situation from a legal point of view? Some of the forum users are mentioning a 6 months protection of the money paid in advance? Does this protection end soon? Where did these 6 months come from? Did some of you have spent time looking at the legal situation / reading the small prints?

The 6 months are likely about charge-backs. The actual period during which you have this option solely depends on your bank, as far as I know. It's also a last measure kind of thing, and it's not warranted here. Basically, the bank protects your from fraudulent merchants that fail to deliver without reimbursing you. It breaks the suspicion of innocence on the merchant's part: by default, the customer wins, unless the merchant can prove they did nothing wrong. Do not use this against F(x)tec at this time. You would basically be abusing a rather significant customer protection law (and thus, provide good arguments for its removal), as F(x)tec does provide reimbursement on demand. On the other hand, once you're past this limit, you are left without your best defense if F(x)tec suddenly change their policy, which is something people are understandably reluctant to risk (you'd then be limited to actual lawsuits, I am guessing).

[ahunter 108]

I have been waiting since 2012 for another landscape QWERTY keyboard phone. I can wait longer.

[Polaris 423]

5 hours ago, silversolver said:

A real keyboard is far more important to me than meaningless specs that don't actually improve usability.

Hear, hear!

1 hour ago, cmar said:

fxteam has now informed about the new delay. What is the situation from a legal point of view?

The legal POV is such that if you don't like this delay, then request a refund and they'll process it asap.

1 hour ago, Raksura said:

...charge-backs ...Do not use this against F(x)tec at this time. You would basically be abusing a rather significant customer protection law (and thus, provide good arguments for its removal), as F(x)tec does provide reimbursement on demand.

Exactly!  What he said.

1 hour ago, ahunter said:

I have been waiting since 2012 for another landscape QWERTY keyboard phone. I can wait longer.

In the same boat, agree completely.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Polaris

[VaZso 1,997]

1 hour ago, Raksura said:

Do not use this against F(x)tec at this time. You would basically be abusing a rather significant customer protection law (and thus, provide good arguments for its removal), as F(x)tec does provide reimbursement on demand. On the other hand, once you're past this limit, you are left without your best defense if F(x)tec suddenly change their policy, which is something people are understandably reluctant to risk (you'd then be limited to actual lawsuits, I am guessing).

I agree.

However, if I would worry about loosing this option, I would contact F(x)tec to ask for an option to initiate a refund then pay it again - so practically the payment will have extended protection and the order remain exists.
I don't know if that is possible (it also takes effort at f(x)tec's side), but it may worth a try.

[SchattengestaIt 559]

If FxTec can afford this, it would be a good thing to refund all payments that aren't shipped and ask for payment two weeks before the actual shipping date.

That way, they would release the pressure and nobody would be able to complain about the actual shipping. It could actually save some money since they won't have to ship from China then.

Order numbers would stay the same, so first orders would get their phone first (or they ship them all at the same time). But currently there is just an angry mob that paid five months ago and get basically no information about whats happening.

 

I'm sure they will do this the next time (Pro 2), but if it's a possibility here, I think they should go for it. Even if 10% wouldn't buy the device in february again, they will sure sell on the free market.

[kashif 350]

53 minutes ago, SchattengestaIt said:

If FxTec can afford this, it would be a good thing to refund all payments that aren't shipped and ask for payment two weeks before the actual shipping date.

That way, they would release the pressure and nobody would be able to complain about the actual shipping. It could actually save some money since they won't have to ship from China then.

Order numbers would stay the same, so first orders would get their phone first (or they ship them all at the same time). But currently there is just an angry mob that paid five months ago and get basically no information about whats happening.

 

I'm sure they will do this the next time (Pro 2), but if it's a possibility here, I think they should go for it. Even if 10% wouldn't buy the device in february again, they will sure sell on the free market.

I would say if FX refund all the pending orders then they wont have any money left to do the production.

secondly many may not bother to come back again and pay.

In my opinion the only way forward is to try to fulfill all the orders as soon as possible.

[EskeRahn 5,427]

2 hours ago, VaZso said:

I agree.

However, if I would worry about loosing this option, I would contact F(x)tec to ask for an option to initiate a refund then pay it again - so practically the payment will have extended protection and the order remain exists.
I don't know if that is possible (it also takes effort at f(x)tec's side), but it may worth a try.

Sounds like an elegant solution. Do not know if there are some legal stuff preventing this though. Perhaps they would need to adjust the amount, say add £1, to not have it triggered as circumventing the system.

[anonim001 105]

59 minutes ago, kashif said:

I would say if FX refund all the pending orders then they wont have any money left to do the production.

Buyers (I mean Fx) usually have delayed payments for produced goods, and the beginning of payment terms are counted from delivery to the warehouse (I don't believe that FxTec would not get a credit insurance)

Edited December 17, 2019 by anonim001
Quote has been shortened

[SchattengestaIt 559]

2 hours ago, kashif said:

I would say if FX refund all the pending orders then they wont have any money left to do the production.

secondly many may not bother to come back again and pay.

In my opinion the only way forward is to try to fulfill all the orders as soon as possible.

As anonim wrote, they would lend money themselves which is nothing special for a company (and not too hard at current times).

And you are right - sending people their devices would be the best solution, but it just doesn't work out.

I was very optimistic until december since there was some movement. But after getting told another time that there will be another delay (of course by a month), I just don't believe they will be able to ship all devices until Q2/2020. This is my opinion of course, but if it happens, many more will jump off the boat.

If they want to get trusted again, they either provide realistic information (including timelines) or they can refund money.

It won't be the best solution, but better than people refunding and not coming back due to anger. Also, that's the typical way of doing things: producing and selling. Not getting money and sometimes decide to produce the product. We see the problems caused by this that cost a lot of money (like direct shipping from China).

[damion 60]

It's Friday the 20th, now highly unlikely I'll get the phone before Xmas Eve 😞

Dear F(x)Tec,

  It's my birthday on the 7th of Jan, please try to make that deadline!

- D

 

[DutchFIX 9]

On 12/17/2019 at 12:12 AM, DutchFIX said:

Sorry to say i just canceled my order after i got the december update from Fx. The possible delivery of "end of January" and speak of QWERTZ European layouts and i'm using QWERTY as most Dutch do (i think), and any QWERTY being assigned to US shipments backlog, this delivery date is not an option anymore.

I'm not following the forum that much but a really don't have any crunch at Fx Tec other then an phone that, although with a great keyboard, is aging fast with the choice of other hardware components. With the price drops on other premium phones continuing every month, the price i paid is no longer cutting it compared to others. 

No bad words about anything else, just my illusion shattered.  

 

 

I canceled my cancellation request 🙂 There are more benefits than the keyboard and after researching a bit more the hardware isn't that bad after all. At least sufficient for my needs. 

 

[DutchFIX 9]

23 hours ago, damion said:

It's Friday the 20th, now highly unlikely I'll get the phone before Xmas Eve 😞

Dear F(x)Tec,

  It's my birthday on the 7th of Jan, please try to make that deadline!

- D

 

Mine is the 9th so two specials please 🙂

[david 921]

On 12/20/2019 at 6:36 PM, DutchFIX said:

Mine is the 9th so two specials please 🙂

Mine is the 9th too, so DutchFix and I get to jump the line for whatever random reasons we can dream up, related to this 1/365 1/183 chance occurrence.  😂

Edited December 22, 2019 by david

[EskeRahn 5,427]

On 12/21/2019 at 1:59 AM, david said:

Mine is the 9th too, so DutchFix and I get to jump the line for whatever random reasons we can dream up, related to this 1/365 chance occurrence.  😂

2020 is a leap year so 366 then 😋😋

[Craig 1,435]

Someone recently pointed me to the birthday paradox.  Only need 69 other people to ensure 99% chance of same birthday; 22 others for 50-50 chance.  Probability is crazy stuff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem

[david 921]

38 minutes ago, Craig said:

Someone recently pointed me to the birthday paradox.  Only need 69 other people to ensure 99% chance of same birthday; 22 others for 50-50 chance.  Probability is crazy stuff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem

Yeah, but this isn't whether someone matches.  It is whether someone matches me. :-)

Update:  They discussed this variant further down on the wikipedia page:

...

 

Same birthday as youEdit

Comparing p(n) = probability of a birthday match with q(n) = probability of matching your birthday

In the birthday problem, neither of the two people is chosen in advance. By contrast, the probability q(n) that someone in a room of n other people has the same birthday as a particularperson (for example, you) is given by

q(n) = 1-((366-1)/366)^n

and for general d by

q(n;d) = 1-((d-1)/d)^n

In the standard case of d = 365, substituting n = 23 gives about 6.1%, which is less than 1 chance in 16. For a greater than 50% chance that one person in a roomful of n people has the same birthday as you, n would need to be at least 253. This number is significantly higher than 365/2 = 182.5: the reason is that it is likely that there are some birthday matches among the other people in the room.

It is not a coincidence that 253 = 23 × (23 − 1)/2; a similar approximate pattern can be found using a number of possibilities different from 365, or a target probability different from 50%.^{[citation needed]}

Edited December 22, 2019 by david

[Craig 1,435]

Oh yeah.... doh.  Guess that is the 4/(1+4*365) chance then.

[david 921]

I can make a case for a 1/183 chance.  There were 2 people who reported birthdays.  The chances that one of those 2 matched me is found by plugging 2 into that forumula from wikipedia (and changing 365 to 366 for @EskeRahn's Dutch Leap Year).  I get this decimal:  0.00545701574.  The closest fraction (with a numerator of 1) is 1/183.

Edited December 22, 2019 by david

[EskeRahn 5,427]

4 hours ago, Craig said:

Oh yeah.... doh.  Guess that is the 4/(1+4*365) chance then.

A fairly good approximation, ignoring that a year ending on 00 is only a leap year if dividable by 400 🤭

[_DW_ 628]

It's nearly time to cancel they only have 2 days to assign me stock.