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3 minutes ago, silversolver said:

It's just that certain people feel better when they have the credit card company willing to bludgeon a company on your behalf. You and I are looking at F(x)tec as a basically sound company with good ethics and a lot of temporary logistical headaches. The 180 days people are distrustful and don't want to lose the bank bludgeon, "just in case."

They should just ask for a refund through F(x)tec first no need to harm the companies credit rating.

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I just had to create an account to chime in as a voice of reason here, because there is some seriously toxic entitlement going on in this thread. I, as I'm sure pretty much everyone else who actu

Thanks for pointing out before the mass panic :). Corrected to January as it was meant.

Some pages ago during December I requested a refund for preorder, and decided to wait till FxTec could actually deliver. Everything has been processed in a friendly and timely manner :-). What I can a

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Just now, _DW_ said:

They should just ask for a refund through F(x)tec first no need to harm the companies credit rating.

Especially since many people (shockingly and appallingly many; have people no patience anymore?) have stated that they got their refund by just asking nicely. Myself, I don't want the money; I want the phone, and I'll wait for it.

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6 minutes ago, _DW_ said:

They should just ask for a refund through F(x)tec first no need to harm the companies credit rating.

refund request seems perfectly acceptable. I would rather use the protection of my CC than putting faith into a company that lacks transparency. Ill be filing my claim shortly. I work to keep my credit rating in check... 

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24 minutes ago, rejujacob said:

Not heard anything from FxTec for a long time. What happened to the weekly despatch etc.? Any updates? Or have they shut down??

It is planed to ship most of the phones out before CNY, they are NOT dead and phones still arive at customers.
So it's going its way 🙂

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10 minutes ago, rob said:

refund request seems perfectly acceptable. I would rather use the protection of my CC than putting faith into a company that lacks transparency. Ill be filing my claim shortly. I work to keep my credit rating in check... 

You should ask F(x)tec to refund you and If they do not, aks your CC company. As of now there is no need to use CC protection over normal refund which they do.

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21 minutes ago, rob said:

refund request seems perfectly acceptable. I would rather use the protection of my CC than putting faith into a company that lacks transparency. Ill be filing my claim shortly. I work to keep my credit rating in check... 

No. Refund request of CC is there for you as your last step to request refund.
It is an insurance and not something you should use in everyday life but in case of spoofing.

If a company gives you a refund option, you should use it. Also, the very first step should be to contact company / seller and ask a solution in any cases.
Otherwise, if you claim you CC insurance while you have other options, you harm the company and not being fair.

Also, F(x)tec has always refunded on request, so you should request your refund from them instead of contacting your card issuer for no valid reasons.

I understand if you don't believe how much troubles may happen and I am also understand if you don't like the way F(x)tec handles communication, requesting your card issuer's insurance is not the right way this case but an incorrect one.

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1 hour ago, rob said:

refund request seems perfectly acceptable. I would rather use the protection of my CC than putting faith into a company that lacks transparency. Ill be filing my claim shortly. I work to keep my credit rating in check... 

The first question you will get from a CC company filling a claim, is if you have asked the company for a refund, and what the response was. And unless you want to lie to them, they are not going to waste their time on a case before you have asked for a refund yourself.

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1 hour ago, rejujacob said:

Not heard anything from FxTec for a long time. What happened to the weekly despatch etc.? Any updates? Or have they shut down??

Yep. The weekly dispatch directly from Hong Kong seems to have merged in a big batch (30% of preorders) dispatched to the warehouses, and then to the customers (so back to the original dispatching plan - for those who are following this since a few weeks).

I guess this solution makes more sense financially. Lets wait 2 more days. We will get some news about the latest dispatch. If confirmed to be 30%, it sounds like there will still be about 50% of pre-oder, without stock assignement at the end of the week.

 

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57 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

The first question you will get from a CC company filling a claim, is if you have asked the company for a refund, and what the response was. And unless you want to lie to them, they are not going to waste their time on a case before you have asked for a refund yourself.

I agree with this and using the correct order for filing a claim will be used of needed. 

side note: asking the CC company that I pay for advice or starting a claim is not a waste of their time, its their job... Its also the function of the company... 

Its hard to sympathize for a business, even small startups with a great product. 

Talk is cheap, Fx cant seem to keep up w. the small guy. 

random thoughts...

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4 hours ago, rob said:

I agree with this and using the correct order for filing a claim will be used of needed. 

side note: asking the CC company that I pay for advice or starting a claim is not a waste of their time, its their job... Its also the function of the company... 

Its hard to sympathize for a business, even small startups with a great product. 

Talk is cheap, Fx cant seem to keep up w. the small guy. 

random thoughts...

The job of your local fire brigade is to extinguish fires. Yet you will be wasting their time if you ask them to extinguish a candle, that you could easily blow out yourself.

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17 hours ago, sasha said:

January 26, 2020 = 180 days (6 months) since the first day Pre-order payments were submitted (July, 31, 2019).  Why it matters: the ability to chargeback on your credit card expires at 180 days.

That's not a universal fact. I know some use 120 days as a limit, and there's also the question of from when the days are counted since some count from supposed delivery date instead of payment date.

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8 hours ago, silversolver said:

It's just that certain people feel better when they have the credit card company willing to bludgeon a company on your behalf. You and I are looking at F(x)tec as a basically sound company with good ethics and a lot of temporary logistical headaches. The 180 days people are distrustful and don't want to lose the bank bludgeon, "just in case."

"Sound company with good ethics" ...an interesting way to describe a company who has breached contract*1, repeatedly (and knowingly) dealt in misinformation*2, defrauded*3 and stonewalled customers*4, sought secret deals with individuals*5, eschewed refund requests*6, and left their PR in the hands of passive-aggressive internet-forum trolls*7  
If you wish to attempt to reframe "seeking outside help as a last resort" as "distrustful bludgeoning", you go ahead and try to do that. But be aware that the educated amongst us will see the "180 days people" simply as wise and educated people who have made the effort to understand their legal position and taken time to share that valuable information with the community - who are, with reason, concerned at the very real risk of losing more than £$€650 

*1 "We will not take money until 2..3 weeks prior to shipping"
*2  eg. In September we were advised that the software licenses had not been procured in time to fulfil their contractual obligation. Let alone have all units ready to ship by the end of August, September, October, November, December, ..., ...
*3 [verb] "obtain money from (someone) by deception" [q.v. *1]
*4 Just see this thread/forum for abundant evidence
*5 I was offered the chance to bring my order forwards in the shipping list if I agreed to retract my refund-request and agree an NDA on the deal ...I politely thanked them for their offer and declined to be involved in the deception.
*6 See below
*7 Yes, I am bitterly aware of the irony of this email being troll-food

7 hours ago, VaZso said:

No. Refund request of CC is there for you as your last step to request refund.
It is an insurance and not something you should use in everyday life but in case of spoofing.

If a company gives you a refund option, you should use it. Also, the very first step should be to contact company / seller and ask a solution in any cases.
Otherwise, if you claim you CC insurance while you have other options, you harm the company and not being fair.

Also, F(x)tec has always refunded on request, so you should request your refund from them instead of contacting your card issuer for no valid reasons.

I understand if you don't believe how much troubles may happen and I am also understand if you don't like the way F(x)tec handles communication, requesting your card issuer's insurance is not the right way this case but an incorrect one.

I agree with @VaZso in all respects bar one... Yes, a "clawback" should be a LAST action, and in fact your CC company will require evidence* that you have made a refund-request and allowed F(x)tec 15 days (*not* "15 working days") to complete the refund process [*mine did] ...However, I can (and do) attest to the fact that F(x)tec has NOT "always refunded on request" [read on...]

1 hour ago, EskeRahn said:

The job of your local fire brigade is to extinguish fires. Yet you will be wasting their time if you ask them to extinguish a candle, that you could easily blow out yourself.

I appreciate your attempt to "strawman" the argument by trying to form a simile between 'a legitimate legal process' and 'a false call to 911', so hey, let's ride with it... After FOUR attempts (of a total of SIX) at "blowing out the candle" with succinct and polite emails which repeatedly requested "please refund my money"**, the recovery team at my CC company expressed surprise at my patience before finally turning to them for help ...I guess the simile is: When I failed (after 5 months) to extinguish the (what looked at first glance like a) candle and my house burned down, the fire brigade said "you should have called us sooner"
**Technically, I /initially/ requested that they refund my money and keep my order open so they could take the money back when they were ready to ship - this request was completely eschewed.

In conclusion:
People are worried - and rightfully so ..If you honestly think you are going to make that better with internet bullying in the form of false claims, passive-aggression, and logical fallacies, you are a fool ...I suspect you are NOT a fool, and that these attacks are crafted with the intention of hurting both the individuals to whom they are directed, and ultimately bring the F(x)tec brand in to disrepute.

What this F(x)tec needs is a PR company to fix this mess ...before it's too late and *everybody* loses out 😞 ...If F(x)tec go under now, even the people with phones will be left with an unsupported product

 

 

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12 minutes ago, ttodd said:

I appreciate your attempt to "strawman" the argument by trying to form a simile between 'a legitimate legal process' and 'a false call to 911', so hey, let's ride with it... After FOUR attempts (of a total of SIX) at "blowing out the candle" with succinct and polite emails which repeatedly requested "please refund my money"**, the recovery team at my CC company expressed surprise at my patience before finally turning to them for help ...I guess the simile is: When I failed (after 5 months) to extinguish the (what looked at first glance like a) candle and my house burned down, the fire brigade said "you should have called us sooner"
**Technically, I /initially/ requested that they refund my money and keep my order open so they could take the money back when they were ready to ship - this request was completely eschewed.

Strawman??? What are you talking about? I was talking about what sounded like suggested misuse of the creditcard company guarantee before even requesting a refund, try to read what I replied to....

If you on the other hand have contacted a company and asked for a refund and they refused (or ignored) the request THEN you can use the CC guarantee,

With the Pro1 you could just cancel, and buy at full price when available. YOUR choice. THEY are not to blame for your wanting Pro1 with the discount, without paying in advance.

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40 minutes ago, Craig said:

Where'd you get this info?  I assumed this weeks big batch was being shipped to customers from HK....

Good question... I think my brain was basing itself on this post, but not clear.

The other post of Erik was mentioning tracking number and not stock assignment.

 

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On 12/27/2019 at 1:05 PM, Erik said:

Further to this, we wanted to ship the small batch today, but it did not arrive earlier this week as we expected. The courier bringing the stock to the UK confirmed it will arrive sometime today, which means tracking for the next small batch will be provided to you on Monday.

 

The big batch is also on the way for January - that one will notify of stock assignment.

in the above one it is mentioning stock assignment!

 

In the one below tracking number!

 

 

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I just had to create an account to chime in as a voice of reason here, because there is some seriously toxic entitlement going on in this thread.

I, as I'm sure pretty much everyone else who actually desires this device, have been waiting for something like this for 10+ years now. Living through this dumbslab revolution has been awful, and while I haven't been as dedicated as some people here have in their efforts to keep the keyboard alive, I cannot get used to touchscreens and never will.

Production issues happen. I was most recently employed with a company that did a lot of smartphone business in China, about 3-4 times the volume of the numbers that have been tossed around this forum relating to the Pro1. And even with that, I was at the mercy of being towards the bottom of the priority list, despite already having several years of routine business dealings with the suppliers in China. Especially going into this time of year, unless you're one of the major players with MOQs in the 10s of 1000s of devices or more, you get the proverbial shaft.

It's clear Fxtec is getting product out the door; people have been reviewing the Pro1 both around the 'net and on these forums. Yes, it sucks to have to wait. Yes, this world of ours has turned almost all of us into entitled, instant gratification seekers that cry for mom the moment even the slightest disappointment comes across our first world lives. Seems to me people could use this opportunity to learn to get over themselves a bit, and reflect on what being patient means.

It has been a long time since I've even remotely been excited by a new mobile device, and I am absolutely excited for the Pro1. I genuinely hope that the toxic negativity going on clears up and doesn't ruin the best thing us true keyboard fans have had in over a decade, and that Fxtec can get to the point where they're turning orders around in a matter of weeks. Because without this, I imagine the end of the functional phone will be not far off. The fashionistas will have won.

I can't quite bring myself to commit to supporting Fxtec with a purchase at this time, but I'm hoping that by the time I can, you people haven't driven these guys out of business.

Keep up the great work, Fxtec et al.

Edited by Artemis-kun
missed a capital
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@ttodd

You make some good points, but there's a lot of points that are almost technically correct, but not quite. Like I'm pretty sure what you claim is a breach of contract isn't even close to that. Or what you're calling a strawman argument, isn't a strawman argument, he isn't making the counter argument easier to attack, he's just using an analogy.

I agree with one of your main points (I think) though, that people shouldn't abuse the chargeback protection all willy nilly. Always first try to find a solution with the seller first, and it still seems that F(x)tec's doing this. If they didn't with you, then I suspect you might've not been clear enough with your request.

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@ttodd It sounds like you asked them to do something their systems cannot do, and then you got upset that they couldn't accommodate your absurd request. Yes, there is money on the line here, but frankly, if losing 650 shekels would break you, you shouldn't have spent it on a phone in the first place. Just because F(x)tec is bad at communication and has had logistical issues with their all-new everything does not make them dishonest. You are a bully who calls yourself wise, but in reality you are paranoid, closed-minded, selfish, arrogant, and not even factually accurate most of the time. That is the last thing I will say to you unless you show evidence of having had an epiphany regarding just what an arrogant donkey's butt you are being, but having met a lot of people like you before, I'm pretty sure my discussion with you is over for all time.

@Artemis-kun THANK YOU for your reasonable perspective on the situation. I don't think you said anything that others haven't said before, but you said it very well. I hope you will place your order soon. :) Also, welcome to the forum. Know that there are a lot of truly wonderful people here, and while I'm not above giving a donkey butt a good hard slap, I'm generally one of the most positive people here. This is an exciting community built around our mutual love for the most exciting mobile device currently in production, and with the exception of a few threads (like this one) which seem purpose-built for toxicity and whining, you'll find that it's a very supportive place. I hope to interact with you more later.

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38 minutes ago, silversolver said:

@ttodd It sounds like you asked them to do something their systems cannot do, and then you got upset that they couldn't accommodate your absurd request. Yes, there is money on the line here, but frankly, if losing 650 shekels would break you, you shouldn't have spent it on a phone in the first place. Just because F(x)tec is bad at communication and has had logistical issues with their all-new everything does not make them dishonest. You are a bully who calls yourself wise, but in reality you are paranoid, closed-minded, selfish, arrogant, and not even factually accurate most of the time. That is the last thing I will say to you unless you show evidence of having had an epiphany regarding just what an arrogant donkey's butt you are being, but having met a lot of people like you before, I'm pretty sure my discussion with you is over for all time.

Given your tirade is based on error in inference ["it sounds like..."] and a eschews point *5 ...I will simply say: You have a beautiful way with words [even angry ones], and your grammar is impeccable :)

Edited by ttodd
added oxford comma
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@silversolver Thanks for the welcome, and the kind words! I'll admit I may have seemed a bit harsh in my post, and I was sure it's all been said before, but I just felt like trying to balance things out a bit, heh. Plus, my professional experience in a related industry lends a bit of weight to my words, I think.

I've spent a lot of time around the xda community, and it seems most people who are into Android tend to be fair minded folk. On that note, I am a bit of an old hand by now when it comes to Android and its use and specifically with customizing ROMs and various other OS-level aspects through the work I've done previously, so I'll hopefully be able to add to the community a bit once I get a Pro1 myself. I'm definitely a pretty big fan of LOS, so I'll be looking to dabble in builds for that once I am able, though if Fxtec's stock Android experience is as clean as they claim, I might have to give it a try first heh 😛

You'll certainly be seeing me around, in any case!

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6 hours ago, Artemis-kun said:

I, as I'm sure pretty much everyone else who actually desires this device, have been waiting for something like this for 10+ years now.

Idunno, I rather liked the Galaxy S Relay 4g while it lasted. Launched in 2012, so less than 10 years.

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