On the pre-production status

[agent008 243]

20 minutes ago, bundyo said:

I really doubt PC have delivered over 3500 Cosmos and they didn't cover all their initial backers from previous November/December, which were less than half that number.

That. We do know one backer with orderd number #4XX still didn't get his/her device. What dishonest people, selling 3.500 devices while early birds such as backer #4XX are still in the dark. </sarcasm>

EDIT: Although, I agree, Planet communicates better than Fxtec. I think it is difficult to disagree with this point.

Edited January 10, 2020 by agent008
Adding a sentence

[kthxbye 71]

11 minutes ago, agent008 said:

That. We do know one backer with orderd number #4XX still didn't get his/her device. What dishonest people, selling 3.500 devices while early birds such as backer #4XX are still in the dark. </sarcasm>

EDIT: Although, I agree, Planet communicates better than Fxtec. I think it is difficult to disagree with this point.

Yeah the fact that planet is apparently shipping regular orders is awful, though we don't know if they are maybe just shipping the layout combinations that are in surplus (though this would mean they didn't just produce all the backer units first as expected). I would be more concerned with the backdoor in the cosmo, at this point even if you get your device you just can not use it because any app can use the backdoor service to exfiltrate all your data.

Which is why I'm hoping someone takes apart the adups stuff to see if it also includes some kind of C&C and backdoors on the pro1...

Edited January 10, 2020 by kthxbye
typo

[rpimonitrbtch 8]

4 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

And personally I hope that IF they can not produce all and ship them, they will pause production and send what they got, rather than having the whole send delayed to after CNY.

F(x)tec, @Erik, can you comment at all on whether or not this is the plan?

[EskeRahn 5,471]

23 minutes ago, rpimonitrbtch said:

F(x)tec, @Erik, can you comment at all on whether or not this is the plan?

I have had confirmation, that is indeed the fallback plan. 😊

[Artemis-kun 63]

7 hours ago, Tsunero said:

Yeah, you just forgot to include that it probably craps itself when watching HD videos and having a few tabs open in the browser (or multiple apps) and let's not even go into gaming. Even my literal brick Nokia from the 90's can send text messages...

My PRIV from 2015 is utter garbage at this point with anything modern. It chugs along but it's a miserable experience.

I am not saying the Pro1 is ancient but it lost from its life already while barely any people got to use it.

The Priv is garbage because it's trapped on a garbage build of Android 6 made by a garbage company that should have quit the business long before selling out to China. I own one myself and have the expertise to be making these statements. 

My ASUS TF300T from 2012 running a properly optimized version of Android 4.4.4 still runs literal circles around my Priv to this day. 

As an aside, I guess it's a good thing we have this thread to collect all these nonsensical posts so that they're not littering the forums in general, but it's amazing how much anger people have towards a company actually delivering high quality product, even if it's slow. This is why we can't have nice things. 

And, for the record, I have pre-ordered things before that have wound up delayed over a year beyond the original release date. It was frustrating but I didn't bother wasting my time spewing bile all over the recordable internet like the people in this thread have been, and guess what? I got the product eventually, and it was good, and I'm thoroughly pleased with it. Patience is a virtue. What's going on in this thread is not a good look for any of you. For shame.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Artemis-kun
Was off by 1 year with the tf300t

[elvissteinjr 359]

Yeah I cannot believe how people can be upset after being repeatedly baited for 6 months straight. Even worse, they dare to have some doubt about statements when others have not turned out to be true before! Shame on them!

If we're having a patience contest here, I have a Pyra pre-pre-order from October 2015. It's all about how it's handled.

[itsdevilslettuce 85]

I hope this device isn't all just one huge hoax … with delays upon delays and the lack of information regarding the delays makes me think it is...

 

but with that said I'm still waiting. I wont ask for a refund just yet … I know it's coming

 

.... shortly

[Doktor Oswaldo 906]

6 minutes ago, elvissteinjr said:

Yeah I cannot believe how people can be upset after being repeatedly baited for 6 months straight. Even worse, they dare to have some doubt about statements when others have not turned out to be true before! Shame on them!

If we're having a patience contest here, I have a Pyra pre-pre-order from October 2015. It's all about how it's handled.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree that everybody should doubt the statements.
I just does not help to demanding stuff in that usual angry internet user tone.
And yeah it is handled shitty. But we can talk about what is shitty we are grown ups.

Well I know we already did and it did change nothing. But so will ranting.
But it is a different thing to criticism the company than to suggest @Erik does say things which he doesn't think are true.
I strongly believe @Erik does what he can and says what he knows and is allowed to share.

The only thing we get from treating @Erik like a liar is that he will not comment anymore!

Edited January 10, 2020 by Doktor Oswaldo

[EskeRahn 5,471]

43 minutes ago, Artemis-kun said:

The Priv is garbage because it's trapped on a garbage build of Android 6 made by a garbage company that should have quit the business long before selling out to China. I own one myself and have the expertise to be making these statements. 

My ASUS TF300T from 2012 running a properly optimized version of Android 4.4.4 still runs literal circles around my Priv to this day.

I did not find the Priv as bad, except the 808, but apart from that it worked reasonably well for me, the worst being the keyboard in the wrong direction. I guess it is much a matter of usage pattern.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Doktor Oswaldo said:

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree that everybody should doubt the statements.
I just does not help to demanding stuff in that usual angry internet user tone.
And yeah it is handled shitty. But we can talk about what is shitty we are grown ups.

Well I know we already did and it did change nothing. But so will ranting.
But it is a different thing to criticism the company than to suggest @Erik does say things which he doesn't think are true.
I strongly believe @Erik does what he can and says what he knows and is allowed to share.

The only thing we get from treating @Erik like a liar is that he will not comment anymore!

I do not know if this post is addressed to me. I did not call or treat Erik a liar.

On the contrary I took his defence by saying he is not the one making any decision.  He transmit the information he is given. And it turns out to be not implemented.

After the perpetual changes, we have the right to question what is happening and asking for more proof of production.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Guest

[Artemis-kun 63]

Just now, EskeRahn said:

I did not find the Priv as bad, except the 808, but apart from that it worked reasonably well for me, the worst being the keyboard in the wrong direction. I guess it is much a matter of usage pattern.

Heh, the thing with the Priv for me is that it's a fresh wound. I actually spent the last half of last year trying everything in my toolkit to try and fix the Priv and make it work well in this day and age. It's simply not possible. The build of Android is so bad that it crashes every 40 hours or so just sitting idle, and BlackBerry abandoned the device after 2 years on the market. With the whole "hardened kernel" and "security focus" pathos that company now has, that means there can and will never be any community support for the device to save it from this untimely demise. Ironic, too, that the "security focus" was their reason for making the device as it is, but using it now is possibly the worst thing you could do, security-wise.

[Rob. S. 1,664]

@Artemis-kun – I agree with virtually all of what you said (and appreciate your saying it) so far. Just two remarks to minor points:

18 hours ago, Artemis-kun said:

Maybe try your hand at designing and manufacturing yourselves, then come back and play

While that would surely help getting an understanding that could prevent most of the rants, it sounds a bit like "do not criticize if you can't do it better yourself", which wouldn't really be an acceptable argument...

59 minutes ago, Artemis-kun said:

This is why we can't have nice things

Oh, there are many other reasons for that. And I guess we shouldn't overestimate the importance and the potency of just a handful of complainants, even though they're particularly loud and persevering. And after all, it's like everywhere – everyone's much more likely to get blame for a mistake than praise for something done right, which is all too often just seen as their damned duty.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Rob. S.

[EskeRahn 5,471]

8 minutes ago, Doktor Oswaldo said:

Well I know we already did and it did change nothing. But so will ranting.
But it is a different thing to criticism the company than to suggest @Erik does say things which he doesn't think are true.
I strongly believe @Erik does what he can and says what he knows and is allowed to share.

The only thing we get from treating @Erik like a liar is that he will not comment anymore!

It all falls back to the communication. IF they were better to make clear that what they were saying were estimates or plans, and not a guarantee that things were going to happen exactly as they hoped.

And yes they have been very optimistic. (Always easy to see with hindsight). I guess they too have taken optimistic estimates they get at face value, and have not added enough slack to whatever obstacles that could occur. But now that they have produced some, they should be in a position where they have more control, and fewer external unknowns, and thus their estimates are likely to be closer to what will actually happen.

[Doktor Oswaldo 906]

4 minutes ago, cmar said:

I do not know if this post is addressed to me. I did not call or treat Erik a liar.

On the contrary I took his defence by saying he is not the one making any decision.  He transmit the information he is given.

After the perpetual changes, we have the right to question what is happening and asking for more proof of production.

No I do not address, nor attack anyone in here (Or at least don't want to, because I understand the anger). And I do not remember you as vicious personality, so at least for me we are totally fine!
Please do not feel attacked. I just wanted to hint how we could improve asking for more proof.
You must understand, that we hear these things and this tone for months now in this forum and it is not helping.
Please excuse the fact that I have taken you as example, it was just one of many.
 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Doktor Oswaldo

[Artemis-kun 63]

2 minutes ago, Rob. S. said:

@Artemis-kun – I agree with virtually all of what you said (and appreciate your saying it) so far. Just two remarks to minor points:

While that would surely help getting an understanding that could prevent most of the rants, it sounds a bit like "do not criticize if you can't do it better yourself", which wouldn't really be an acceptable argument...

Oh, there are many other reasons for that. And I guess we shouldn't overestimate the importance and the potency of just a handful of complainants, even though they're particularly loud and persevering. And after all, it's like everywhere – everyone's much more likely to get blame for a mistake than praise for something done right, which is just their damned duty.

Amen, and feel free to call out things as needed, I know I can be a bit heavy handed at times with some of my points. I just say what's on my mind, and with having a bit of experience professionally with this sort of thing, I know all too well exactly what Fxtec is going through, and I admit that can give my comments a sense of elitism. 

More on the topic, they're excited to deliver an amazing product they are clearly extremely passionate about, so a lot of what they've said and done makes sense when viewed in that manner. Who doesn't like sharing every bit of info they can when excited, even if it's extremely optimistic? I know I can never keep quiet when I find myself in the same situation, even when it bites me in the rear 😛

[EskeRahn 5,471]

8 minutes ago, Artemis-kun said:

Heh, the thing with the Priv for me is that it's a fresh wound. I actually spent the last half of last year trying everything in my toolkit to try and fix the Priv and make it work well in this day and age. It's simply not possible. The build of Android is so bad that it crashes every 40 hours or so just sitting idle, and BlackBerry abandoned the device after 2 years on the market. With the whole "hardened kernel" and "security focus" pathos that company now has, that means there can and will never be any community support for the device to save it from this untimely demise. Ironic, too, that the "security focus" was their reason for making the device as it is, but using it now is possibly the worst thing you could do, security-wise.

It is the wrong forum for this (but in this thread it just drowns anyway...) I wonder how it causes you so much troubles? The extremely frequent crashes mentioned are completely unknown to me, I can not remember how long back it last crashed. It might even be back to when it was still on Lollipop....
The only thing I can think of is that the 808 being the smaller sibling to the notorious 810, so It does heat on extensive use. And heat can cause it to shut down as a security measure, So if you use it extensively, and especially if combined with fast wireless charging, things can heat up quite quickly, i've ranted a lot on this, start e.g. here. I would suggest that you install something like 3C All-in-one toolbox, or at the least the battery monitor part of it, and let it log the charging, as this will log the temperature too, and see if there is a correlation between temperature and crashes.

[Artemis-kun 63]

11 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

It is the wrong forum for this (but in this thread it just drowns anyway...) I wonder how it causes you so much troubles? The extremely frequent crashes mentioned are completely unknown to me, I can not remember how long back it last crashed. It might even be back to when it was still on Lollipop....
The only thing I can think of is that the 808 being the smaller sibling to the notorious 810, so It does heat on extensive use. And heat can cause it to shut down as a security measure, So if you use it extensively, and especially if combined with fast wireless charging, things can heat up quite quickly, i've ranted a lot on this, start e.g. here. I would suggest that you install something like 3C All-in-one toolbox, or at the least the battery monitor part of it, and let it log the charging, as this will log the temperature too, and see if there is a correlation between temperature and crashes.

Heh yeah I was a bit hesitant to get into it, but as you said, it'll just get lost in the noise anyway.

I was actually excited at one point to have discovered that Speedtest by Ookla was a nefarious app, as it's one I used to use at work for testing network speeds, so I just happened to have left it on my devices due to that, and I suspected it was this app that was giving my Priv all its troubles. But even after removing it and, like I mentioned, leaving it just idle with nothing going on except Play Store automatic updates and GSam to track various things, even putting it in airplane mode with wifi enabled. Still, it would soft crash, wherein Android just crashes and you get the boot logo and eventually back to normal, but the reported uptime does not show a reboot. I even went as far as doing a complete device reset and fastboot flash of the last available firmware, in case maybe there was a bad OTA update somewhere along the way.

In my experiences with Android, this tends to be from some kind of memory management issue, or it may be related to a bug with the wifi module in Android 6, which has been documented, or could even be related to the various BlackBerry bloatware which you cannot remove. But without having root access to the device, it's pretty much impossible to dive deep enough into whatever is causing the problems I've experienced with the Priv, but I'm pretty confident it being trapped on a very outdated, by now, version of Android is not doing it any favours, regardless of what SoC it has. I would love nothing more than to see what a custom ROM would do on the Priv.

[bundyo 32]

5 hours ago, agent008 said:

That. We do know one backer with orderd number #4XX still didn't get his/her device. What dishonest people, selling 3.500 devices while early birds such as backer #4XX are still in the dark. </sarcasm>

EDIT: Although, I agree, Planet communicates better than Fxtec. I think it is difficult to disagree with this point.

Yeah, tell that to, for instance, backer #17, I'm sure he will also appreciate it.
Planet's communication may be sent often, but it doesn't contain any substantial information such as why such things happen. So it is similar to Fxtec, just with more words.

Anyway, the point of my original post was different.

[EskeRahn 5,471]

5 minutes ago, Artemis-kun said:

Heh yeah I was a bit hesitant to get into it, but as you said, it'll just get lost in the noise anyway.

I was actually excited at one point to have discovered that Speedtest by Ookla was a nefarious app, as it's one I used to use at work for testing network speeds, so I just happened to have left it on my devices due to that, and I suspected it was this app that was giving my Priv all its troubles. But even after removing it and, like I mentioned, leaving it just idle with nothing going on except Play Store automatic updates and GSam to track various things, even putting it in airplane mode with wifi enabled. Still, it would soft crash, wherein Android just crashes and you get the boot logo and eventually back to normal, but the reported uptime does not show a reboot. I even went as far as doing a complete device reset and fastboot flash of the last available firmware, in case maybe there was a bad OTA update somewhere along the way.

In my experiences with Android, this tends to be from some kind of memory management issue, or it may be related to a bug with the wifi module in Android 6, which has been documented, or could even be related to the various BlackBerry bloatware which you cannot remove. But without having root access to the device, it's pretty much impossible to dive deep enough into whatever is causing the problems I've experienced with the Priv, but I'm pretty confident it being trapped on a very outdated, by now, version of Android is not doing it any favours, regardless of what SoC it has. I would love nothing more than to see what a custom ROM would do on the Priv.

UH, sounds bad and odd. Wonder what is could be as I do not see it?? So either I'm extremely lucky or you have some software installed it can not handle, or it has some hardware failure. I will PM you a list of the apps on mine.

[sixaxis 36]

It is written, 4-6 weeks. You do not like this lie? ahahah, but they didn’t even remove this inscription, which means that they like to deceive people ... But how else to explain it?

[silversolver 849]

6 hours ago, Doktor Oswaldo said:

Yeah but there were not a lot updates at all 😄 So there could be a lot more issues we don't know of. If you follow other sources there are hints that this may be true.
However we don't know. That is exactly the worst part of this project, we don't know anything at all!

No, the worst part is that a lot of people are assuming the worst when they don't know.

[Hook 3,043]

9 minutes ago, sixaxis said:

It is written, 4-6 weeks. You do not like this lie? ahahah, but they didn’t even remove this inscription, which means that they like to deceive people ... But how else to explain it?

How about they are swamped trying to get folks their Pro1s and web work on the site is low priority.

As always, I understand the frustration and disappointment.  I don't understand personal attacks on folks who are clearly working hard to get out devices which, most who receive them agree, are what they promised to produce... a high quality horizontal keyboard slider. 

[silversolver 849]

2 hours ago, Artemis-kun said:

The Priv is garbage because it's trapped on a garbage build of Android 6 made by a garbage company that should have quit the business long before selling out to China. I own one myself and have the expertise to be making these statements. 

My ASUS TF300T from 2012 running a properly optimized version of Android 4.4.4 still runs literal circles around my Priv to this day. 

As an aside, I guess it's a good thing we have this thread to collect all these nonsensical posts so that they're not littering the forums in general, but it's amazing how much anger people have towards a company actually delivering high quality product, even if it's slow. This is why we can't have nice things. 

And, for the record, I have pre-ordered things before that have wound up delayed over a year beyond the original release date. It was frustrating but I didn't bother wasting my time spewing bile all over the recordable internet like the people in this thread have been, and guess what? I got the product eventually, and it was good, and I'm thoroughly pleased with it. Patience is a virtue. What's going on in this thread is not a good look for any of you. For shame.

I don't know about that.....my Droid 4(2012) running 7.1 thanks to Lineage OS is a little doggy, but still plays videos in the browser and VideoLAN player just fine. My PRIV is light years faster and perfectly stable. I accidentally discovered why the PRIV is a little doggy and has terrible battery life out-of-the-box: a lot of the built-in software. I disable as much as possible in favor of third-party or not having the "feature" and mine now has excellent performance AND excellent battery life. I'd use it as my daily driver if it didn't have the keyboard the wrong direction. 😉 @EskeRahn

[silversolver 849]

59 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

UH, sounds bad and odd. Wonder what is could be as I do not see it?? So either I'm extremely lucky or you have some software installed it can not handle, or it has some hardware failure. I will PM you a list of the apps on mine.

Mine is not on Android 6, mine is on Android 7, and looks virtually indistinguishable from my Droid 4 on 7.1. I assume this is an official firmware update he simply never received. I have no idea why.

[Artemis-kun 63]

1 minute ago, silversolver said:

I don't know about that.....my Droid 4(2012) running 7.1 thanks to Lineage OS is a little doggy, but still plays videos in the browser and VideoLAN player just fine. My PRIV is light years faster and perfectly stable. I accidentally discovered why the PRIV is a little doggy and has terrible battery life out-of-the-box: a lot of the built-in software. I disable as much as possible in favor of third-party or not having the "feature" and mine now has excellent performance AND excellent battery life. I'd use it as my daily driver if it didn't have the keyboard the wrong direction. 😉 @EskeRahn

Yeah @EskeRahn and I are discussing why I'm having such issues with my Priv, wrong orientation of keyboard aside heh 😛 I'm beginning to suspect it may be a regional issue for me, as I know the Priv varied hardware-wise by region, and even the software builds are different by region. You'd think living in Canada, I'd have the best possible chance at having the best possible version of a BlackBerry product, but who knows lol.

Given not being able to put my own, clean versions of Android on it, or having another identical piece of hardware to rule out hardware problems, I'm not sure what else to do. I've done all the things one can possibly do including your suggestions, and others that have been proffered. All I can say is I put my Pixel 2 away for the past 6 months and tried using my Priv as a daily driver, and it was simply not possible, despite doing everything reasonable to try and solve the slowness and random crashes. The same set of apps on my Pixel 2 does not exhibit any of the same problems. The only remaining things are system bloat that you can't disable *coughDTEKcough* or it's simply that there are underlying frameworks in the build that no longer function well in the modern Android app ecosystem.

I have spent significant amounts of time, brain power, and emotional heartache on my Priv and I just can't anymore. Hence, my love for the Pro1!