On the pre-production status

[EskeRahn 5,350]

2 minutes ago, FlyingAntero said:

It is easy you to say that when you have two working phones already + a toy unit to play with. It is wrong to blame us customers. And if you have followed this journey closely you might remember that Chen actually told us that they are not going to ask our money before they actually have a stock to deliver. Well, that did change during this journey. In addition, this is not first time when some of the guys behind f(x)tec is doing manufacturing business. There was Moto Mod and Yoyota tab before this saga...

I still like the device but I am loosing the faith to the team.

What has it to do with anything that I got my retail device?? Are you saying that you would not be whining if someone else had been receiving the unit I got???

And if you look in the statistics in here, questioning if I followed the discussion is just... - well I will try to avoid using the words I feel would describe it.

Their INTENTION was not to take money before shortly before, but they CLEARLY changed that before they actually asked for the money.Or did you happen to not follow that part of the journey?

And yes Chen tried to get the Moto Mod keyboard up and running. But in your implied nasty accusations you seem to conveniently forget that he offered ALL OF US a full refund paid from his own pocket. Tell me how many other cancelled crowd-funded projects that had done that!!! So by that story you should rather praise him to the skies for being a more decent guy than (almost?) any other crowdfunding developer out there!!!

[Frank M 2]

1 hour ago, EskeRahn said:

I'm so sick of all this whining and blaming 

You seems pretty upset about these complaints.  Some like you who have already received more then one device.

If you have such patience then why didn't you volunteer to receive it in the last batch?

Very convenient 

[agent008 238]

10 hours ago, Pico said:

Since we're off topic and talking about the weather. I'd like to thank all of you for being a decent group. For all the frustration and aggravation of the waiting and not knowing everyone seems to be pretty chill. It's nice not seeing name calling and all the other trash that could be here.

I have to repeat my old man's motto. "Never compliment! It'll just make people f*** up."

That didn't take long. People are losing their chill -- what a coincidence!

[Siani_8 105]

14 minutes ago, A Dude said:

But please only as opt-in. I really do not need more electronic waste (as in: what do you expect from 'free ear buds'? - probably the same junk that's being shipped with Samsung devices, or worse, what comes with Apple stuff). I think buying one for 30 bucks will probably put you already in a much higher quality-domain, than what would ever be shipped 'for free' (while good in-ear monitors set you back several hundreds of dollars..).

I do see the point for a "case from manufacturer", because device dimensions and button placement is highly device-specific, but ear buds.. IMHO there is really no point for those..

I get it that you don't want them and that's fine.  The point is it was advertised that ALL pre-orders would receive them and I opted to pre-order based on that info rather than wait for general availability. 

[FlyingAntero 812]

6 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

What has it to do with anything that I got my retail device?? Are you saying that you would not be whining if someone else had been receiving the unit I got???

And if you look in the statistics in here, questioning if I followed the discussion is just... - well I will try to avoid using the words I feel would describe it.

Their INTENTION was not to take money before shortly before, but they CLEARLY changed that before they actually asked for the money.Or did you happen to not follow that part of the journey?

And yes Chen tried to get the Moto Mod keyboard up and running. But in your implied nasty accusations you seem to conveniently forget that he offered ALL OF US a full refund paid from his own pocket. Tell me how many other cancelled crowd-funded projects that had done that!!! So by that story you should rather praise him to the skies for being a more decent guy than (almost?) any other crowdfunding developer out there!!!

No, you got me totally wrong. I am happy that you have devices. But because of that you can't understand our situation (without device).

[EskeRahn 5,350]

2 minutes ago, Frank M said:

You seems pretty upset about these complaints.  Some like you who have already received more then one device.

If you have such patience then why didn't you volunteer to receive it in the last batch?

Very convenient 

What has my patience to do with this?

Sure I would have loved to have had it in July that was the original plan, I'm not a patient guy - never claimed to be - But that does not give me or anyone else reasons to accuse them of things out of their control. SURE their communication has not been as good as I would have wanted. And I already said that.

(And as you might have guessed by me having a very early not fully functioning unit, I have done a bunch of testing for them, so it is no big surprise that they would like me to test the actual retail unit also...)

[EskeRahn 5,350]

13 minutes ago, FlyingAntero said:

It was just 3 weeks ago when Chen personally told me that I will be in the second batch. I am just so disappointed that it did not happen.

And do you think he is not disappointed? He is the one not getting the sales they had hoped for. Don't you guys get that they are at least as eager to deliver as we are to get them?

[EskeRahn 5,350]

5 minutes ago, FlyingAntero said:

No, you got me totally wrong. I am happy that you have devices. But because of that you can't understand our situation (without device).

That did not make much sense...

Of course you want your devices, but don't use that frustration to throw nasty words at the guys that are at least as eager to actually deliver them to you...

[kashif 350]

1 hour ago, EskeRahn said:

SURE a few, and far from ALL has been delivered, but it should be obvious that the ones that mostly wish all delivered fast is F(x)tec. It clearly hurts their sales that the Pro1 did not get available in good time before Christmas, and they might not even get to that point until after (or best case very short before) Christmas.

Hmm..... Same old fight is started all over again.

I dont think picking at @EskeRahn will get anyone their devices.

But i do want to say that EskeRahn dont make this mistake of saying "and they might not even get to that point until after (or best case very short before) Christmas".

because same thing was said in mid sep that just two more weeks, and then in october that just by the end of october and so on....

Lets just say we dont know when, could be 6 months or more.

and for me its doesnt count whatever next date or time is given, i will only be certain when i will have it in my hands.

[EskeRahn 5,350]

10 minutes ago, kashif said:

Hmm..... Same old fight is started all over again.

I dont think picking at @EskeRahn will get anyone their devices.

But i do want to say that EskeRahn dont make this mistake of saying "and they might not even get to that point until after (or best case very short before) Christmas".

because same thing was said in mid sep that just two more weeks, and then in october that just by the end of october and so on....

Lets just say we dont know when, could be 6 months or more.

and for me its doesnt count whatever next date or time is given, i will only be certain when i will have it in my hands.

....The HUGE difference to September is that they actually have delivered some devices now - few yes, but delivered, And at least one extra batch has left he factory. So things are looking better. Though of course we would all want them to deliver all now,

[epninety 86]

1 hour ago, EskeRahn said:

Have you guys ever been involved in a company manufacturing anything complex? Do you even have a clue on what you are talking about?

Over the last 30 years, yes, many times, amongst them at least 4 mobile phones, GSM and 3G, along with network infrastructure and many other things, in large and small teams, manufacturing in high and low volume.

I can't recall one situation in all that time where making half promises to the customer and failing to meet it has ended well.

What about you?

[Doktor Oswaldo 901]

It is utterly important to keep critics valid and focused.

There is a point where they could do better (communications) and there are a lot of points where it is insanely hard to do better without having a name first.
For example the order of the fulfilment. Imagine this:

1. First batch had problems with logistics, it was just to complicated for the partner
2. Since the second batch should be big enough, they told logistics to just forget the order and deliver to anybody on the list.
3. Second batch has a production issue (without a lot of experience this is unlikely to be foreseen) there are only a few good devices now.
4. Order of fulfilment is completely random now

This is only an example and we have no way to know if this is what happened or not. But in this example they have not done anything evil at all.
The point now is, who do you gonna handle that? Well I for sure would prefer that they would communicate that exactly like it happened. But they may fear that a lot of people see that as lack of quality.

They seem to be ashamed or overworked and don't want to disappoint us further. So they communicate just nothing. Surely not a good way. A lot of speculations and wrong Information. This is far from perfect, criticism here is valid. But the whole thing is also human. We do not deal with a faceless company here and for them a lot is on stake!

So while they are fu***ing communications up, we have no sure knowledge of an error they did in the engineering or logistic part of the project at all.
 

Edited December 4, 2019 by Doktor Oswaldo

[Doktor Oswaldo 901]

1 minute ago, epninety said:

Over the last 30 years, yes, many times, amongst them at least 4 mobile phones, GSM and 3G, along with network infrastructure and many other things, in large and small teams, manufacturing in high and low volume.

I can't recall one situation in all that time where making half promises to the customer and failing to meet it has ended well.

What about you?

No, but I would have if I had to to the guesswork 10 years ago. And my personal financial future was never at that stake theirs must be.
Wouldn't you ever had estimated a project way to short? Was there never a printer not working in a critical moment or the network down?
Had you never had to wait for a third-party company to finish there part 3 months to late?

 

[kashif 350]

3 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

....The HUGE difference to September is that they actually have delivered some devices now - few yes, but delivered, And at least one extra batch has left he factory. So things are looking better. Though of course we would all want them to deliver all now,

I do agree on that, atleast some devices are delivered and its the light of hope.

I just wish though if FX can give us some realistic picture, and if any help we can do eg. financially.

 

[EskeRahn 5,350]

1 minute ago, epninety said:

Over the last 30 years, yes, many times, amongst them at least 4 mobile phones, GSM and 3G, along with network infrastructure and many other things, in large and small teams, manufacturing in high and low volume.

I can't recall one situation in all that time where making half promises to the customer and failing to meet it has ended well.

What about you?

Nope, I have never been in hardware production. Software only for closing in on 40 years, And here I all too well know this. "Ah this is minor task, We will have this ready in a week!" Both being told by others, and felt in my mind. And also felt how frustration it can be if things out of your control can delay delivery.

[mcdinner 375]

6 minutes ago, kashif said:

I do agree on that, atleast some devices are delivered and its the light of hope.

I just wish though if FX can give us some realistic picture, and if any help we can do eg. financially.

 

I see you got your faith back! ❤️

 

Does this mean I do not get your device/order ? 😥

[is 65]

On the financial point, if they were having troubles I would be happy to donate or join some crowdfunding campaign for some semi-useless shit, buy a branded shirt, a paper bag from wallmart or a maga hat or something, I don't care. I want this company not only to deliver a device to me, but be successful enough to sell me a new one, make one for my gf with different needs etc.

I know this is not the right place to tell this as no one from FX prolly reads this mess of a thread, but for me honesty would be the best strategy regardless. 

From what some are saying, they are very decent people, I have no prior experience so I'm a bit skeptical considering the communication level, but I guess I am a betting man, I am prepared to double down on this 🙂

[kashif 350]

I am also in software development and have been/am involved in fairly big projects.

for me i never failed my timeline, reason.

after looking at project req, if i know exactly what im doing here then i charge and give timeline (add decent extra time on top of what i estimate).

if its something new, i dont give any timeline and no charging. onc e i figure out and fully test hurdles then specify timeline and charge.

[epninety 86]

2 minutes ago, Doktor Oswaldo said:

No, but I would have if I had to to the guesswork 10 years ago. And my personal financial future was never at that stake theirs must be.
Wouldn't you ever had estimated a project way to short? Was there never a printer not working in a critical moment or the network down?
Had you never had to wait for a third-party company to finish there part 3 months to late?

 

Of course there was, to all those, and many more and worse situations. I haven't complained at all about late delivery, nor would I. Communications is a whole other topic though. A simple 'official' statement along the lines of 'batch no x has left the factory for shipment to customers, this will complete x% of preorders' is all that is really required. Statements of when it is hoped batches will leave serve little purpose, especially with no indication of the size of the batches, relative to number of outstanding preorders.

[kashif 350]

4 minutes ago, mcdinner said:

I see you got your faith back! ❤️

 

Does this mean I do not get your device/order ? 😥

Faith is not a very right word, you can say im a bit numb now

[Doktor Oswaldo 901]

Just now, epninety said:

Of course there was, to all those, and many more and worse situations. I haven't complained at all about late delivery, nor would I. Communications is a whole other topic though. A simple 'official' statement along the lines of 'batch no x has left the factory for shipment to customers, this will complete x% of preorders' is all that is really required. Statements of when it is hoped batches will leave serve little purpose, especially with no indication of the size of the batches, relative to number of outstanding preorders.

That is another thing. Yes but as I said before: It is a small team of engineers not marketing guys. They may have a lot of stress and fear over their future. It might be not that easy for them.

But yeah they surely should!

[FlyingAntero 812]

20 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

That did not make much sense...

Of course you want your devices, but don't use that frustration to throw nasty words at the guys that are at least as eager to actually deliver them to you...

I believe that I didn't say anything cruel or bad. Just the facts and this is the current situation. I have been patient for a half year and tried to be supportive. But this thing just keep going to wrong direction and F(x)tec is not telling to us the what is going on. What is the current situation with 3rd batch and QWERTZ devices? At the same F(x)tec is delivering units to mighty Coderus and xda and but I can't get a device. I just hope that I will receive it soon 😊.

Edited December 5, 2019 by FlyingAntero

[EskeRahn 5,350]

2 minutes ago, kashif said:

I am also in software development and have been/am involved in fairly big projects.

for me i never failed my timeline, reason.

after looking at project req, if i know exactly what im doing here then i charge and give timeline (add decent extra time on top of what i estimate).

if its something new, i dont give any timeline and no charging. onc e i figure out and fully test hurdles then specify timeline and charge.

For the same reasons I avoid that too. Some times I do the whole project before giving a quote, gambling on getting it. But nevertheless from time to time we all depend on third party deliveries, that are beyond our control. And This would (obviously) be so much more in a hardware project like this, with certifications adding to the whole thing.

[is 65]

4 minutes ago, kashif said:

I am also in software development and have been/am involved in fairly big projects.

for me i never failed my timeline, reason.

wow, you are probably a god then. software development without missing deadlines? really? 🙂

[kashif 350]

1 minute ago, EskeRahn said:

For the same reasons I avoid that too. Some times I do the whole project before giving a quote, gambling on getting it. But nevertheless from time to time we all depend on third party deliveries, that are beyond our control. And This would (obviously) be so much more in a hardware project like this, with certifications adding to the whole thing.

Yes thats a different story if you have to depend on third party.

i can imagine it can get out of our hands