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On the production status and delivery

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1 hour ago, anonim001 said:

Another dumb question: can't we re-lock the BL after flashing LOS? Wouldn't it solve the problem? 

I'm not 100% sure how this all works, but I think that the bootloader check is just 1 of the safetynet checks. LOS wouldn't be verified by Google, which is also one of the checks.

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Posted (edited)

 

Quote

 

Hello,

We just wanted to send you another update with regards to you Pro1's production status. 

Following the obstacles we have faced over the last week, we have now received our re-scheduled components delivery from our suppliers. This means we expect things to be getting back to normal  to a certain extent and we can resume shipping as soon as next week.

We are trying our hardest to get through this difficult time as quickly and as carefully as we can, and will continue to send round regular updates to keep you in the loop.

If you have any further questions or queries, please do not hesitate to get int touch with our support desk on [email protected]

Thank you again for your continued patience and support. 

 

 

Sincerely,  


Adrian and Chen
Founders, F(x)tec

 

On the plus side, I might get my Pro1 just after the first anniversary of my pre-order. But then again, since France is about to go into full lockdown, chances are I will not be allowed to go get it from the delivery depot.

Edited by Raksura
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1 - again next week and given our big backlog, we expect that everything
Pre-order to receive your devices until the end of January.

2- Another batch of devices left the factory on Wednesday
and breaks through the F (x) tec logistics network over the next week. we
working with the factory on how quickly they can get the remaining pre-order devices
collected and ready, updates will come either through us directly or with a change in status to
your turn.

3 - do not want to overestimate once
therefore, again, our official statement on the delivery of your order by the end of January in accordance with the director’s detailed update


4 - We will be in touch with our
factories run daily to ensure that we are up to date with any updates / progress
done next week.

5 - and we can resume delivery as soon as
a week.
We are struggling to survive this difficult time as fast and thoroughly as we
may and will continue to send out regular updates to keep you posted.

6 - and we hope that we can continue production and shipment
all remaining customer orders from next week.


7 -, we can continue the production of all the rest
devices next week. We understand that this may not be the news that you were
hoping, but the current situation is completely beyond our control.


Do not you think that the phrase "next week" will be lousy as a mockery.

Another such letter and I withdraw my order.

 

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@sixaxis , you could add a number 8, see mail posted yesterday by @Raksura above.

Quote

Following the obstacles we have faced over the last week, we have now received our re-scheduled components delivery from our suppliers. This means we expect things to be getting back to normal  to a certain extent and we can resume shipping as soon as next week.

When they say nothing: people are whining
When they say something without a when: people are whining
When they try to give a vague estimate stating that it is out of their control. people are whining
When they tell that the supply lines are working again and production and shipping is expected to be resumed: People are whining too ?!?!?

What do you expect them to do in the current situation?

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18 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

@sixaxis , you could add a number 8, see mail posted yesterday by @Raksura above.

When they say nothing: people are whining
When they say something without a when: people are whining
When they try to give a vague estimate stating that it is out of their control. people are whining
When they tell that the supply lines are working again and production and shipping is expected to be resumed: People are whining too ?!?!?

What do you expect them to do in the current situation?

- Be probably already aware that people whine regardless of talks.
- Hopefully soon be able to crank out more of these awesome phones :).

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I'm just curious how big this batch will be 😀... I placed my order in January ( so I know I can't complain yet ) ... but I am a glass half full kinda person, so I'm kinda excited that the factory is getting back to work ( hopefully everyone is staying safe )

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10 hours ago, __fastcall said:

Whiney kids will whine ..

 

Ordered mine at the 13th of august. Good luck Chris. 😄 

Sometime late November. I'm stuck in the middle with you two. :P

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21 hours ago, sixaxis said:

1 - again next week and given our big backlog, we expect that everything
Pre-order to receive your devices until the end of January.

2- Another batch of devices left the factory on Wednesday
and breaks through the F (x) tec logistics network over the next week. we
working with the factory on how quickly they can get the remaining pre-order devices
collected and ready, updates will come either through us directly or with a change in status to
your turn.

3 - do not want to overestimate once
therefore, again, our official statement on the delivery of your order by the end of January in accordance with the director’s detailed update


4 - We will be in touch with our
factories run daily to ensure that we are up to date with any updates / progress
done next week.

5 - and we can resume delivery as soon as
a week.
We are struggling to survive this difficult time as fast and thoroughly as we
may and will continue to send out regular updates to keep you posted.

6 - and we hope that we can continue production and shipment
all remaining customer orders from next week.


7 -, we can continue the production of all the rest
devices next week. We understand that this may not be the news that you were
hoping, but the current situation is completely beyond our control.


Do not you think that the phrase "next week" will be lousy as a mockery.

Another such letter and I withdraw my order.

 

I'm very happy for getting any information at all. At this point, the best they can do is estimate. And I don't believe anybody who is in a place where Corona spreads out can handle it differently.

I'm impatient as well, but at least they don't ignore us (anymore) when they don't have secured/new information. Also think of them being treated the same. All companies and partners they work with will be promising that they will receive parts, start working, etc. They are in the same boat as we are.

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19 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

@sixaxis , you could add a number 8, see mail posted yesterday by @Raksura above.

When they say nothing: people are whining
When they say something without a when: people are whining
When they try to give a vague estimate stating that it is out of their control. people are whining
When they tell that the supply lines are working again and production and shipping is expected to be resumed: People are whining too ?!?!?

What do you expect them to do in the current situation?

I expect useful information. And not something like this - “next week the fleas on the ass of some Chinese will stop biting him,” or “next week the planet Mars will be closest to the earth” ... And where is all this? It gives me as much information about my phone as it gives me message information from fxtec - absolutely not at all. They don’t say something like - "next week the workers will return to the factory AND THIS MEANS THAT ON TUESDAY (FOR EXAMPLE) THEY WILL START PRODUCTION, AND ON FRIDAY (FOR EXAMPLE) YOU WILL PRODUCE YOUR PHONE AND BY SUNDAY (FOR EXAMPLE) WE ARE YOU. No, that’s not there, there is only "next week there will be something and this something will not give us any idea of when your phone will be made." Or - "we expect that by the end of January we will establish production." So what? Set up and? When will the next batch be released? In one day? month? year? 100 years? Do you understand what I'm trying to explain to you? Emails from fxtec carry absolutely no useful information. It would be useful for me to find out, for example, when My batch will start to be produced, or that people usually wait 6-8 months after ordering, or at least something that will give me at least a rough estimate of the time I wait.
  Today I will write a letter to "PLANET COMPUTERS" I will ask when they can deliver me their COSMO if I am satisfied with the deadline, I will place an order. I will laugh for a long time with tears in my eyes if the COSMO that I order today comes to me faster than pro1, which I ordered 4 months ago. But if I’m not mistaken, their factories are also located in China ...

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22 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

@sixaxis , you could add a number 8, see mail posted yesterday by @Raksura above.

When they say nothing: people are whining
When they say something without a when: people are whining
When they try to give a vague estimate stating that it is out of their control. people are whining
When they tell that the supply lines are working again and production and shipping is expected to be resumed: People are whining too ?!?!?

What do you expect them to do in the current situation?

Then a letter from texts like “wait, we work” will be sufficient for you.

Otherwise - 

When they say nothing: people are whining
When they say something without a when: people are whining
When they try to give a vague estimate stating that it is out of their control. people are whining
When they tell that the supply lines are working again and production and shipping is expected to be resumed: People are whining too ?!?!?

What do you expect them to do in the current situation?

 

 

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If anyone is interested, I wrote this letter in PLANET COMPUTERS - 

Body:

Hello! I want to order "COSMO" from you. 
I am in Russia, in St. Petersburg, and wanted to know if I order and pay for the device today, 
when will you be able to deliver it to Me?
Are your factories in China? Are you experiencing difficulties with manufacturing or shipping your goods due to the virus? 
I ask because I do not want to be deceived as with fxtec with PRO1, who promised to deliver the device in 4-6 weeks,
and I have been waiting for the fifth month.
I hope you are more honest with your clients. Thanks. 

Their answer - 

Paul E. Pinnock (Planet Computers)

Mar 18, 12:36 +01

Dear Dimitry,

Thank you for your enquiry.

Of course Coronavirus and Chinese New Year have caused massive delays in production.

However, Cosmos has resumed and we expect Cosmos to become available again in the second half of April.

If you place your order today for one Cosmo, we can guarantee that your Cosmo will be shipped out to you before the end of April.

This is the best we can offer given these trying times.

Also, for your information, we have Gemini 4G devices in stock today and there is a sale on for Gemini 4G devices with 25% of normal pricing. These units we ship out next working day following a valid order.
 
 
P.S.  "If you place your order today for one Cosmo, we can guarantee that your Cosmo will be shipped out to you before the end of April." -  I would like to hear something like this from fxtec.   I will make an order this week, if interested, I can keep you updated on COSMO delivery events. Do you bet? Who will come first? COSMO ordered this week or PRO1 ordered 4 months ago? Moreover, both fxtec and planet computers factories are located in China.  
 
Patience is over.

 

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28 minutes ago, brunoais said:

What are you trying to show us with that?

It’s better not to have business with fxtec. That they do not hesitate to feed with promises like "next week." And the fact that we are not completely respected. (It's my personal opinion). And the fact that I personally was disappointed in fxtec. I myself am a developer of both hardware and software,
and I understand that for YEARS it is possible not only to build a telephone, but to surrender it from scratch, patent, certify, test, navigation equipment for small aircraft. This is what My firm has done. If you think that creating a phone is hard, then you are not competent in the matter. For a long time, telephones are created roughly speaking from modules: you take SOC (a topic on the cross), and "tie" it with the necessary components like GSM GSM, GPS, etc. In the case of fxtec (my guess), they took the hardware from Samsung edge 7 as a basis, stuck a keyboard to it and made small changes to the kernel in order for this to work. During the time that fxtec is trying to stick a keyboard to a 3-year-old telephone, one could already (roughly speaking) build a plane. This is what I am trying to say.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, sixaxis said:

P.S.  "If you place your order today for one Cosmo, we can guarantee that your Cosmo will be shipped out to you before the end of April." 

Which might happen and might not. And if it happens, it still proves nothing. If the virus should come back to China, which everyone hopes it won't, but the rest of the world is already suffering higher infection rates than China had during the height of its crisis, that "guarantee" will immediately prove worthless.

9 minutes ago, sixaxis said:

I understand that for YEARS it is possible [...] to build [...] navigation equipment for small aircraft

Yeah, which of course is exactly the same as building and marketing an Android phone for mass market. You don't seem to "understand" much, actually.

We all want our phones and are not happy about the delays, but venting exaggerated (and, by the way, potentially illegal, since defamatory) accusations against the manufacturer won't make them ship faster. Get a grip on yourself. 

Edited by Rob. S.
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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, sixaxis said:

That they do not hesitate to feed with promises like "next week." And the fact that we are not completely respected.

Are you sure they are promises? When I read their texts, I read expectations:

Quote

Exciting update today. Liangchen is visiting the factory in China at the minute and he expects all of the pre-orders will be produced by the 18th of January, so in less than 5 days now. We have already produced a very significant number of pre-order devices, which are waiting for the full list to complete by the 18th.

Quote

We have provisionally been informed that factory workers might be able to return to work early next week.

Got any examples that state otherwise?

22 minutes ago, sixaxis said:

I myself am a developer of both hardware and software,

Good for you. So am I.

22 minutes ago, sixaxis said:

I myself am a developer of both hardware and software,
and I understand that for YEARS it is possible not only to build a telephone, but to surrender it from scratch, patent, certify, test, navigation equipment for small aircraft.

You do know that f(x)tec owners are not programmers, do you? You do know they are at mercy of snapdragon and google (android), don't you?

22 minutes ago, sixaxis said:

If you think that creating a phone is hard, then you are not competent in the matter.

What? It's not? Elaborate, please.

22 minutes ago, sixaxis said:

and "tie" it with the necessary components like GSM GSM, GPS, etc.

Please be more technical on what you mean by "tie".

22 minutes ago, sixaxis said:

In the case of fxtec (my guess), they took the hardware from Samsung edge 7 as a basis, stuck a keyboard to it and made small changes to the kernel in order for this to work.

So... You mean they changed linux for the PRO¹, is it? What kind of changes do you notice?

22 minutes ago, sixaxis said:

During the time that fxtec is trying to stick a keyboard to a 3-year-old telephone, one could already (roughly speaking) build a plane.

Have you ever tried to make a new piece of hardware that has never existed before to give to a general audience?

Edited by brunoais
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Ok, I understood everything. Justify and justify and believe in those who cannot cope with their duties. Come to us in Russia, here they are very fond of such “endlessly waiting” and “believing in promises”. They will squeeze out all the juices from you and throw them in the trash like a rag, while you wait and believe. This was my last post in this forum. Good luck and patience to all, it is useful to you. P.S. I do not believe in promises, but believe in deeds, so I do, so my firm does.

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3 minutes ago, brunoais said:

Are you sure they are promises? When I read their texts, I read expectations:

Got any examples that state otherwise?

Good for you. So am I.

You do know that f(x)tec owners are not programmers, do you? You do know they are at mercy of snapdragon and google (android), don't you?

What? It's not? Elaborate, please.

Please be more technical on what you mean by "tie".

So... You mean they changed linux for the PRO¹, is it? What kind of changes do you notice?

Have you ever tried to make a new piece of hardware that has never existed before?

Yes for example - http://aeroplan-pro.ru/elektronnyj-deselerometr-dep-5a/ 

This is completely my development, and software and hardware, all from scratch, I did 1 in 2 years.  That was 3 years ago.

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27 minutes ago, sixaxis said:

In the case of fxtec (my guess), they took the hardware from Samsung edge 7 as a basis, stuck a keyboard to it and made small changes to the kernel in order for this to work.

That's not how it works, Samsung will not just give you their stuff and reverse engineering it is more work than it's worth.

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16 minutes ago, sixaxis said:

Ok, I understood everything. Justify and justify and believe in those who cannot cope with their duties.

The burden of justification lies in the accusation, not the defendant.

12 minutes ago, sixaxis said:

Yes for example - http://aeroplan-pro.ru/elektronnyj-deselerometr-dep-5a/ 

This is completely my development, and software and hardware, all from scratch, I did 1 in 2 years.  That was 3 years ago.

... And with that you ignored everything else... Including

Quote

before to give to a general audience?

 

12 minutes ago, sixaxis said:

by by

You mean "bye bye"? If you say so. If you always run away from a discussion and keep giving accusations without proof, you will never win one.

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36 minutes ago, sixaxis said:

This was my last post in this forum.

And that lasted for five minutes 😄

It reminds me of some guys talking about promises not kept and/or expectations that did not hold.... 😇

Good luck to you too - and have mercy on the manufacturers of what ever you may pre-order in the future.

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Sheesh. Look, I understand not wanting to wait any longer and deciding to get something else (no, actually, I'm lying, this phone is so awesome, I can't imagine ever getting something else, but the frustration with waiting I understand 😉), but why do you have to throw a hissy fit on your way out the door. Why not just, "Okay, I'm tired of waiting so I'm moving on.  Good luck to the rest of you."

 

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This entire discussion makes it look like FxTec caused the delays on purpose. And we can be sure they wouldn't.

So as long as the delays are obviously out of their control it really doesn't make sense critizising them. They can't change anything anyways.

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8 minutes ago, sixaxis said:

I myself am a developer of both hardware and software,
and I understand that for YEARS it is possible not only to build a telephone, but to surrender it from scratch, patent, certify, test, navigation equipment for small aircraft. This is what My firm has done. If you think that creating a phone is hard, then you are not competent in the matter. For a long time, telephones are created roughly speaking from modules: you take SOC (a topic on the cross), and "tie" it with the necessary components like GSM GSM, GPS, etc. In the case of fxtec (my guess), they took the hardware from Samsung edge 7 as a basis, stuck a keyboard to it and made small changes to the kernel in order for this to work. During the time that fxtec is trying to stick a keyboard to a 3-year-old telephone, one could already (roughly speaking) build a plane. This is what I am trying to say.

I am also a developer of both hardware and software and I would not say that creating a phone from scratch is easy.

You are right about the SoC itself does a lot of things but you should follow several considerations, select appropriate components and routing, so you have to have appropriate skills and experiences.

Also, creating a phone from scratch can be relatively easy for an expert who is also familiar with multi-layer PCB design, but creating a good phone needs much more experience not speaking about good mechanical design and EMI / EMC considerations and the price of testing and certifications.

In a project which has a microcontroller, accelerometer, GPS receiver and display, the PCB can be relatively simple compared to a good phone's PCB.
On the other side, the main software can be complicated in other way (custom thing).
Also it is much simpler to find an appropriate box or design the whole thing the way to fit in an existing outfit than to find someone who will do a custom box for you which has the appropriate parameters, dimensions and outfit - not speaking about the price of a more complex solution.

Also, if you have a custom product, initiating the mass production needs different considerations and have potential problems.

On the other hand, electronics are built from components, there are really clever solutions nowadays. Also softwares are built from components (existing components and own components and components written based on data sheets and so on)... so what are you call easy (simple) - as not being hard?
Okay, it is not hard... but I would not call it simple even if it is simple for me.

Every complex products basically built up on relatively simple parts (in detail) which results in a complex product.
That is how an engineer builds up the project.

So that way it can be simple, but the whole task together can be complicated especially if a relatively few people have to have the knowledge required.

Anyway, not too long ago I had an old Rpi 1 in my hands and I have looked a bit of its PCB.
It definitively works, but it is not a really good design... compare it with their later products and you will see a huge difference.

So there can be a lot of differences between products even if all of them work.
Creating something that works is one thing but do it right is another one, however, I haven't seen Pro1's internals yet...

Building a plane is definitively not a one-man show or a show of a group of relatively few people.

However, I think you should know these things and you just lost your patience...

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