Pro1 and Pro1 X design change to use Snapdragon 662, no new devices before August 2021

[nobumacsuzuki 10]

I have requested to cancel my order and refund immediately.

If you agree, please do so.

If the sufficient buyers provide the loud voice, they will be more serious.

I am pretty sure, they have purchased subcomponents already, and if many claim the calcellation and refund, they will be financially negative, so as to avoid the situation, they shall more seriously think the better work-around.

[Rud 123]

7 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

Indeed. Those that want a strong gaming device should not go for a Pro1, and even less for the Pro1X now.

But I for one would hardly notice...
The only real 'chip upgrade' I felt when I went from the BB Priv, was in the Android Market doing updates. It took 'forever' on the Priv, but is much smoother on a Pro1 (and would most likely be even faster on a 885 device)
But I do not know how the usage patterns looks for the typical Pro1 user.

Regarding the 835, mine runs AAA games just fine. The only game that I had to turn the settings down just a bit on was "Forgotten Memories" and that's quite a demanding game. 

I have about 45 android games installed and also psp emulation works great.

I am very sorry that FxTec ran into this issue as personally I would prefer a 4th gen  i7 to a 8th gen i3, but it all depends on the intended use of the device.

Personally, even if I didn't already have my Pro1, I'd still buy the downgraded one as there isn't anything like it on the market and I need a keyboard on my phone.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Rud

[DieBruine 397]

Wow, I missed this. I should have upped my selling price 🤣. Seriously, I can totally understand the frustration. Been there, done that. Actually, still doing it, for one phone. 
I am totally keeping one Pro1 spare for myself, 'that's fo sho'. And the question becomes, how about repairs. You can forget that now. Or will they design so that you can swap out the mainboard and keep everything else 🙄. Questions , so many questions  🥴

To my fellow community members, my prayers are with you 🙏.

Edited February 11, 2021 by DieBruine
Mainboard

[michael.bosscha 142]

Oof. This is not so great news. Those are some hefty performance drops. Which, honestly, is weird seeing as the SoC is actually newer. I really hope FXtec can overcome this hurdle, get the people who still don't have their 1 their devices and go into full design mode for the Pro2. The 1X feels more and more as a mistake...

[nobumacsuzuki 10]

If you think "hey this guy is demanding something unreasonable"...

 

I am working for OEM business, and I know how the semiconductor companies announce EOL of the product.

They usually provide the notification 3 months before they announce the EOL.

F(x)tec mentioned "negotiate with supply chain" - actually it happened 3 month before.

 

It does mean, they had not placed the order in Nov 2020, while they had observed the back-orders, presumably from Jan 2020 to Nov 2020.

 

Don't you think their logistic management is seriously terrible, not to order the critical lead-time component seeing the EOL notification, and to announce this serious delay right now?

 

[Zamasu 258]

Any idea what this means for security updates for the 835 and LineageOS for example? 

[claude0001 1,352]

23 minutes ago, Zamasu said:

Any idea what this means for security updates for the 835 and LineageOS for example? 

Well, LineageOS is community driven. How long it supports a given device is up to the port maintainers, not the manufacturer. The maintainers can usually support only a device they own themselves, so probably nothing will change as long as there are only original Pro1's in the wild.

As far as I understand -- distinct ports for the original and new Pro1 will be necessary, so development for the 662 can start only after Fxtec provides a willing dev with a preproduction device.

Updates of official Android 9 may be a different story. But is there really any reason to use that (honest question)?

Edited February 11, 2021 by claude0001

[brunoais 334]

I rather wait 9 months to get the 720[G] instead of 5 to get the 622 and get a long-lasting good product, given how much I'm paying for it.

[Rud 123]

I honestly hope the way this "resolves" itself is that maybe FxTec somehow still make enough money from Pro1 and ProX sales in the future so that they can take their time, gather their resources and come out with a Pro2 that's truly a flagship device in a year or two.

We, their clients now, are part of this company's first stumbling steps and I hope we can get it to a constant sprint in a few years time. For the sort of "Mom and Pop" shop they are at the moment, I'm quite impressed with what they managed to do up to now.

But yes, if I didn't already have my Pro1, the downgrade news would really bring my piss to a boil. Mainly because as a physical keyboard user, we never seem to get true flagships with that feature, and that would just trigger some PTSD. :)) On the other hand, the PRO1 is as close as we got to a flagship QWERTY phone as far as I know.

What I hope this wouldn't impact is an official Android 10 upgrade. I got my stock android install perfect for me so I wouldn't want to scrap it and move to Lineage.

P.S.: What I see as an important hit from the downgrade is that this chip doesn't support video out, so all the advertising of the ProX as a portable linux desktop would pretty much go out the window. I am basing this on a comment I read in this thread, don't know if it's correct.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Rud

[FlyingAntero 871]

57 minutes ago, Zamasu said:

Any idea what this means for security updates for the 835 and LineageOS for example? 

Lineage OS developers can fix security issues from OS any time but vulnerabilities in the SoC code is a different thing. Qualcomm included SD835 in the security bulletins atleast back in November 2020. I don't know if that is going to continue anymore.

Google ended support for Pixel 2 devices (same SD835 chip) in October 2020 but Pixel 2 Preferred Care customers will receive security updates to April 2021. So, there is still some support left from Google.

[brunoais 334]

Also, does anyone here need android certification?

The certification is just a blessing from google so an Android installation passes the SafetyNet attestation.

In my case, I'll just buy a super cheap phone for 50$ or so just for those apps.

[Vladislav Mogilev 6]

The whole idea of the product is violated by downgrade! I will wait the required time to make it happened with SD835 to save necessary functionality for a well-build clever device suited its design target. The device capable of running linux is the main go to. Do not stick with Android limitations. Connection of external display is a very important feature and with SD662 it goes to waste.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Vladislav Mogilev

[FlyingAntero 871]

@brunoaisWhere did you get that information about SD720G and 9 months timeline?

[PsyDucky 20]

I would say  9-10 months is optimistic. But I understand what you are saying 12-18 months would still be fine in my mind id say.

Edited February 11, 2021 by PsyDucky

[Rob. S. 1,664]

14 minutes ago, brunoais said:

does anyone here need android certification

Yes, I need that certification. I don't buy a $700 phone just so that I have to carry yet another phone for the important things like communicating with my health insurance.

By the way, I voted "Other option", but I really meant "5 months but worse SoC" – it may sound worse, but if someone doesn't buy the Pro1 as a gaming device they won't even notice. I don't care for benchmark figures on paper. 

I've been using a Moto Z3 Play for 1½ years. It has a SD 636 which is slightly slower than than the 662, both in CPU and GPU, and it's been more than enough for anything I'll do in the foreseeable future. 

I didn't order the Pro1 for being the fastest phone on earth, I ordered it for the keyboard. I just want a decent performance that doesn't get in my way. When I originally placed the order, I didn't even look what CPU it was. I just didn't care. It would have be good enough, and so will this new one.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Rob. S.

[Robert 12]

This is a Keyboard phone that will be mostly used to connect to command lines and missing features like:

NX bit, AES, TrustZone (- Mobile Wallet !must have today!)

are not aceptable!

Also dynamic frequency scaling would probbably save more Battery lifetime than just lowering the frequency.

I would either wait for a redesign (+9 Months) for a CPU that supports this features or ask for refund. This CPU choise is not acceptable, even not with a better cam!

Edited February 11, 2021 by Robert

[brunoais 334]

15 minutes ago, FlyingAntero said:

@brunoaisWhere did you get that information about SD720G and 9 months timeline?

The announcement itself  🙂

Quote

Using a 5G chipset would require a complete overhaul of the design which is effectively like designing a completely new phone, putting us back a further 6-9 months

 

[Vladislav Mogilev 6]

2 minutes ago, Robert said:

This is a Keyboard phone that will be mostly used to connect to command lines and missing features like:

NX bit, AES, TrustZone (- Mobile Wallet !must have today!)

are not aceptable!

Also dynamic frequency scaling would probbably save more Battery lifetime than just lowering the frequency.

I would either wait for a redesign (~9 Months) for a CPU that supports this features or ask for refund. This CPU choise is not acceptable, even not with a better cam!

Exactly!

[bundyo 32]

From the spec, 720G also doesn't have video out. I would rather choose one that does, like 730G for instance.

Edited February 11, 2021 by bundyo

[Jacob_S 128]

 

3 minutes ago, brunoais said:

The announcement itself  🙂

 

5+6=11
5+9=14

At least that's how I'd understand this.

[FlyingAntero 871]

5 minutes ago, brunoais said:

The announcement itself  🙂

 

720G is not a 5G chip. If F(x)tec would use SD720G, SD730G or SD732G they would not need to redesign antennas. However, I don't know if it would be as easy swap as SD662.

[brunoais 334]

1 minute ago, FlyingAntero said:

720G is not a 5G chip. If F(x)tec would use SD720G, SD730G or SD732G they would not need to redesign antennas. However, I don't know if it would be as easy swap as SD662.

I see. I'm not much updated on that. I'd still rather have those and go forward than this bate and switch from Qualcomm who took the money and then didn't deliver to f(x)tec.

Maybe any of those ones would be easier and faster to work with... I just wonder if Qualcomm blocked F(x)tec from using them.

[Rob. S. 1,664]

40 minutes ago, FlyingAntero said:

Lineage OS developers can fix security issues from OS any time but vulnerabilities in the SoC code is a different thing. Qualcomm included SD835 in the security bulletins atleast back in November 2020. I don't know if that is going to continue anymore.

From Fxtec's communications I gather that one of the reasons for the original choice of the SD 835 as "last year's high-end SoC" instead of something that would have been "this year's midrange SoC" back then was that high-end chips get longer manufacturer support, so existing owners may get lucky there. (Two years later, now a recent midrange SoC like the 662 will have a support advantage over the now-old 835.)

Edited February 11, 2021 by Rob. S.

[claude0001 1,352]

Experience tells that time estimates from Fxtec tend to be very optimistic ...

I think a re-design of the device into a Pro2 (with different radios) would take very long before being ready for shipping. I woudn't expect anything less than a year, probably even significantly longer. During all that time they would not deliver a single phone anymore. I think Fxtec cannot afford such a long absence form the market.

I am also disappointed by this development, but downgrading to the inferior SoC for maximum compatibility with the existing design is probably the only thing they can do now. 

[matf-kabouik 414]

I could wait even longer. The Pro1x is a device I plan on using for years, it's an investment for the long term and being niche, I know it won't get iterations and updates every year. I'd rather wait years and have it finally delivered with no compromises. An older SOC is not an issue for me, I plan on using mainline eventually, which also answers the question on whether I care about certification (however, I believe having Android as an option really increased the backer base and was therefore likely a sound decision). My plan is to use the device to run Mobile Linux, meaning it's best if the SOC is actively being worked on by the Linux/Mainline community. As desktop applications in Linux can also be a bit demanding, I would like raw performance on par with the msm8998 (which I tried already and can confirm it's enough for what I need, but slower could be an issue).

I am not sure there is still room for reconsidering the choices at this stage, though. There are probably constraints we don't see as customers. But if I'm asked whether I could wait or not, then definitely, I could, and I would vastly prefer that.

Edited February 11, 2021 by matf