Sequence of order processing + issues with orders

[michael.bosscha 142]

... So, my post didn't get through the moderator queue or something? Something something Paypal's gone something something...

[EskeRahn 5,464]

Hmmm… The Paypal option was there this morning, but now that I’m ready to pay it’s gone :-(

 

Are you sure? I'm quite sure it was not there Thursday morning (CEST), I looked for it, and found only direct credit card payments.

[EskeRahn 5,464]

… So, my post didn’t get through the moderator queue or something? Something something Paypal’s gone something something…

 

....See other thread, I wish we had a queue.... we currently need to look at all threads one by one to see if anything is pending, so only the newer threads get somewhat frequent checks...But the comment in question was approved about two hours ago....

[david 929]

I have a rather large issue with my order that I tried to resolve privately but the email was ignored.

 

My phone order is being exported to the US, there is no need to charge VAT on the phone or on the shipping. See http://www.brighton-accountants.com/blog/vat-uk-usa/ , and consult Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs for specifics about zero rating exported items going to the US. I’d be fine paying a fair paperwork labor charge for the effort of documenting the export but I’m not fine with paying VAT.

 

I’m also being billed tax for my state, but my state has no reciprocal tax agreement with FxTec, so collecting this is not necessary. It is optional for an entity without an agreement and not in my state to collect this tax. If it is collected then the state must be paid, it’s a felony to collect this tax and not pay it. It appears that the VAT and shipping were included in the amount taxed, other taxes and shipping costs should not be counted when calculating state tax (a paperwork labor charge is also not billed state tax.)

 

Given the Chinese content in the phone, I’m expecting there to be a rather hefty customs bill as well which will bring the combination of appropriate and inappropriate taxes collected to as much as 64% (depending on what customs charges) of the initial cost. my total tax rate should total 0% plus whatever customs charges. Customs to the US is potentially 25% of the Chinese content but if the total cost of the Chinese content was under 50% of the total retail it can be marked UK origin and will likely get 0% customs charge. Chinese content excludes things like the imported SOC and screen even if the device is assembled in China. If marked “made in China” customs is likely to charge 25% without looking any further so it would be nice to know if the phone will be marked “made in China”, or “made in UK”, or if it will have a percentage Chinese content marked on he paperwork.

 

This isn’t a small discrepancy.

 

I brought up the state tax thing to them and was told their software has no way to not collect it. I'm in Minnesota. Until last year, most states didn't collect sales tax on remote purchases unless the seller had a physical business presence in the state. A poor US Supreme Court case overruled a previous case and now allows the states to collect sales tax even if the seller doesn't have a physical location in the state. More information can be found here: https://www.revenue.state.mn.us/remote-seller-faqs

 

However, there is an exception for smaller sellers. This exception is Minnesota specific. Other states may have other exceptions. Sellers don't need to collect state tax until they have sent at least 100 orders to Minnesota, or 10 orders that total more than $100,000.

 

I sent all this information to F(x)tec, but was told their software forces them to collect it. I didn't bring up the VAT, but I noticed that too. It might be something similar.

 

I certainly hope the customs issue is a non-issue. Nothing has been mentioned about that, so I'm guessing they don't need to worry about it.

 

I do agree that when all the greedy little money grabbers (the taxers) team up, it gets really ugly with double taxation and taxes on taxes, etc. It can become insignificant fairly quickly.

[Craig 1,435]

I have a rather large issue with my order that I tried to resolve privately but the email was ignored.

 

My phone order is being exported to the US, there is no need to charge VAT on the phone or on the shipping.

 

Unique issue. To resolve it, why not have it shipped direct to the US and pay the USD price+local tax that way? Or aren't you headed back for a while...

[B.X 19]

BX wrote:

I have a rather large issue with my order that I tried to resolve privately but the email was ignored.

 

My phone order is being exported to the US, there is no need to charge VAT on the phone or on the shipping.

Unique issue. To resolve it, why not have it shipped direct to the US and pay the USD price+local tax that way? Or aren’t you headed back for a while…

 

This is not a unique issue, I assume it's being done to hundreds or thousands of US customers. I'm in the US and having it shipped to me here, this isn't the case of a US person being in the UK or anything odd like that. It's a straight forward US purchase from a UK store being mishandled. Potentially criminally if they don't pay my state the money they collect for state taxes.

 

Fxtec's software definitely is collecting state tax, it's listed on the invoice and everything. My credit card has already been billed not only for state tax, but for VAT, and they're billing state tax on the VAT, and the shipping and the VAT on the shipping. The last two never apply, you never bill tax on tax nor bill tax on shipping. I do admit that they are permitted by my state to voluntarily collect the state tax (on the goods only) and forward that money to my state but if they collect it and do not forward it, it's a felony.

 

The Supreme Court decision does not apply to international sales, only Interstate within the US. The Supreme Court ruling also doesn't require states to demand sales tax from remote sellers, it permits them to make that demand. Since the ruling is new, only a few states like SD have such laws.

 

[david 929]

BX wrote:

I have a rather large issue with my order that I tried to resolve privately but the email was ignored.

 

My phone order is being exported to the US, there is no need to charge VAT on the phone or on the shipping.

Unique issue. To resolve it, why not have it shipped direct to the US and pay the USD price+local tax that way? Or aren’t you headed back for a while…

 

I took him to mean that he was having it shipped to the USA, not that he was buying it in the UK and then sending it home. I could be wrong, of course.

[Kabbone 36]

Thunderhaake wrote:

I get a payment-notification, but I can’t complete my payment, because both of my VISA-cards was declined by the payment-process…

 

Anyone else get tha issue?

 

The cards are valid, not expired, limit is above 1k€, end so on. I even used one card today at the local food store…

Sorry to hear there’s payment issues.

 

Please ensure the name on your card matches the name you have set on your F(x)tec profile. For example, if the name on your card is “J DOE”, you should set the name on your profile as “J DOE”. This seems to be happening to a very limited number of cards with this special protection enabled.

 

Erik

 

My credit card got declined like many others, but I think the problem could be because of what you mentioned. The problem is, the order seems not to be connected to my account, because I can't see it in pre orders or orders. Whom do I have to write?

[Noir 112]

Kabbone,

contact Thema there:

Contact form

[Erik 1,487]

I have a rather large issue with my order that I tried to resolve privately but the email was ignored.

 

My phone order is being exported to the US, there is no need to charge VAT on the phone or on the shipping. See http://www.brighton-accountants.com/blog/vat-uk-usa/ , and consult Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs for specifics about zero rating exported items going to the US. I’d be fine paying a fair paperwork labor charge for the effort of documenting the export but I’m not fine with paying VAT.

 

I’m also being billed tax for my state, but my state has no reciprocal tax agreement with FxTec, so collecting this is not necessary. It is optional for an entity without an agreement and not in my state to collect this tax. If it is collected then the state must be paid, it’s a felony to collect this tax and not pay it. It appears that the VAT and shipping were included in the amount taxed, other taxes and shipping costs should not be counted when calculating state tax (a paperwork labor charge is also not billed state tax.)

 

Given the Chinese content in the phone, I’m expecting there to be a rather hefty customs bill as well which will bring the combination of appropriate and inappropriate taxes collected to as much as 64% (depending on what customs charges) of the initial cost. my total tax rate should total 0% plus whatever customs charges. Customs to the US is potentially 25% of the Chinese content but if the total cost of the Chinese content was under 50% of the total retail it can be marked UK origin and will likely get 0% customs charge. Chinese content excludes things like the imported SOC and screen even if the device is assembled in China. If marked “made in China” customs is likely to charge 25% without looking any further so it would be nice to know if the phone will be marked “made in China”, or “made in UK”, or if it will have a percentage Chinese content marked on he paperwork.

 

This isn’t a small discrepancy.

 

Hi,

 

This has been brought to my attention as this is certainly not how our sales system is setup. I have checked your order, and I can confirm there is no VAT charge applied to it. Your order is completely VAT free.

 

As for the state tax, we're importing the Pro1 to the US and later shipping it to you from a US fulfilment centre. We don't ship from a different country, so there will be no additional import fees on your side. The price that is listed on your order is the final price including shipping and the state tax for goods sold.

 

If you have any further concerns, please contact us directly at https://www.fxtec.com/contact/ as we don't provide support over the community forums.

 

Erik

[EskeRahn 5,464]

...we’re importing the Pro1 to the US and later shipping it to you from a US fulfilment centre. We don’t ship from a different country, so there will be no additional import fees on your side. The price that is listed on your order is the final price including shipping and the state tax for goods sold.

 

Thanks for this clarification :)

Maybe something like that would be beneficial as some 'fine prints' on all orders to the US. (And similar to any other country where you will have a national "fulfilment centre")

[Hook 3,033]

Erik-FX wrote:

…we’re importing the Pro1 to the US and later shipping it to you from a US fulfilment centre. We don’t ship from a different country, so there will be no additional import fees on your side. The price that is listed on your order is the final price including shipping and the state tax for goods sold.

Thanks for this clarification :)

 

Maybe something like that would be beneficial as some ‘fine prints’ on all orders to the US. (And similar to any other country where you will have a national “fulfilment centre”)

 

It also helps explain why they had said Quertz were for Europe only. The US fulfillment center will probably not receive Quertz models.

 

This makes a lot of sense. Everything I've ever ordered from the UK has been shipped to me from a fulfillment center in the US, including my subscription to MOJO magazine. ;-)

[Craig 1,435]

This is not a unique issue, I assume it’s being done to hundreds or thousands of US customers. .

 

It wasn't done for me, I only paid USD649+$46 california tax + shipping, as advertised. Are you trying to say there is an additional charge on yours? Are you trying to imply they're not going to pay the state the tax the collect?

 

I assumed you were having it shipped to UK/EU, which is why you were getting charged VAT, but you were trying to avoid it cuz you were leaving right away or something, .

 

You realize people in europe are paying 649EURO which includes like 111EURO of VAT. People in Britain even worse at 649 GBP. The USD price is the best, especially if you live in a state with low or without sales tax (unlike me).

 

 

[david 929]

BX wrote:

I have a rather large issue with my order that I tried to resolve privately but the email was ignored.

 

My phone order is being exported to the US, there is no need to charge VAT on the phone or on the shipping. See

http://www.brighton-accountants.com/blog/vat-uk-usa/

, and consult Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs for specifics about zero rating exported items going to the US. I’d be fine paying a fair paperwork labor charge for the effort of documenting the export but I’m not fine with paying VAT.

 

I’m also being billed tax for my state, but my state has no reciprocal tax agreement with FxTec, so collecting this is not necessary. It is optional for an entity without an agreement and not in my state to collect this tax. If it is collected then the state must be paid, it’s a felony to collect this tax and not pay it. It appears that the VAT and shipping were included in the amount taxed, other taxes and shipping costs should not be counted when calculating state tax (a paperwork labor charge is also not billed state tax.)

 

Given the Chinese content in the phone, I’m expecting there to be a rather hefty customs bill as well which will bring the combination of appropriate and inappropriate taxes collected to as much as 64% (depending on what customs charges) of the initial cost. my total tax rate should total 0% plus whatever customs charges. Customs to the US is potentially 25% of the Chinese content but if the total cost of the Chinese content was under 50% of the total retail it can be marked UK origin and will likely get 0% customs charge. Chinese content excludes things like the imported SOC and screen even if the device is assembled in China. If marked “made in China” customs is likely to charge 25% without looking any further so it would be nice to know if the phone will be marked “made in China”, or “made in UK”, or if it will have a percentage Chinese content marked on he paperwork.

 

This isn’t a small discrepancy.

I brought up the state tax thing to them and was told their software has no way to not collect it. I’m in Minnesota. Until last year, most states didn’t collect sales tax on remote purchases unless the seller had a physical business presence in the state. A poor US Supreme Court case overruled a previous case and now allows the states to collect sales tax even if the seller doesn’t have a physical location in the state. More information can be found here: https://www.revenue.state.mn.us/remote-seller-faqs

 

However, there is an exception for smaller sellers. This exception is Minnesota specific. Other states may have other exceptions. Sellers don’t need to collect state tax until they have sent at least 100 orders to Minnesota, or 10 orders that total more than $100,000.

 

I sent all this information to F(x)tec, but was told their software forces them to collect it. I didn’t bring up the VAT, but I noticed that too. It might be something similar.

 

I certainly hope the customs issue is a non-issue. Nothing has been mentioned about that, so I’m guessing they don’t need to worry about it.

 

I do agree that when all the greedy little money grabbers (the taxers) team up, it gets really ugly with double taxation and taxes on taxes, etc. It can become insignificant fairly quickly.

 

It seems the customs issue has been cleared up, since the phones destined for US customers are imported to a US shipping center first and then shipped from there. For anyone else reading this thread, I thought it would be helpful to post my order confirmation email and break down the pricing. As with many things, communication is important, and in this case, the communication wasn't exactly clear, so it led to some confusion.

 

[attachment file=29539]

 

What I noticed first, when I went to the order page to pay, is that the price had changed from the advertised $649 to $693.65. Since there wasn't anything explaining why the price had gone up, I just assumed they changed the base price. It wasn't going to prevent me from ordering it, but I was a bit surprised at the change.

 

The next thing we see on the in the order confirmation email is "$10.69 (incl. VAT) via Shipping". The wording isn't the best and could mean multiple things. My best guess is that it means they are charging $10.69 to ship the device and *if* I would have been in the UK, that would have included a VAT. The same software is likely being used for UK and non-UK customers, so it is understandable they would have concepts that apply to all customers. They are including it on the shipping line, which does lead to possible confusion. It would have been better to have a separate VAT line showing $0. If the software didn't allow for that, the wording should have been better.

 

Now for the total line: "$704.34 (includes $45.34 MN State Tax) charged at a future date" I first read this and though "Oh, so they are going to charge me $45.34 at some future date, for Minnesota sales tax. I wasn't really happy about paying Minnesota sales tax for the purchase (see the comments in a previous post), so I did email them about the fact that they didn't need to collect this for my state until after 100 orders had been shipped to the state. Going off the wording, one would expect that I would be charged $704.34 now and $45.34 before the item ships. Now, the $649 phone becomes a $749.68 phone, with the other charges.

 

However, when we look at this closer, we find that what was stated and what is reality appear to be different.

 

$704.34 - $45.34 = $659 (subtracting out the sales tax)

 

$659 - $10.69 = $648.31 (subtracting out the shipping)

 

We are now very close to the original advertised price of $649.

 

Minnesota state sales tax is 6.875%. 6.875% of $649 would be $44.62 (rounding up). However, if we take $649 + %10.69 = $659.69 and apply 6.875% to that, we get $45.35 (rounding down). A penny off from what is being charged.

 

Going about it a different way, if we want to figure out what should be the true base price, we can take $45.34 divided by .06875, and we end up with $659.49 (rounding down). $659.49 minus $10.69 = $648.80.

 

So, what we have is a base price of $648.80 for the phone. Shipping brings that up to $659.49. Charging 6.875% Minnesota sales tax on that brings the total up to $704.34.

 

Why is the phone $648.80 instead of $649? Who knows? A mystery for the ages. Maybe there is a tiny bit of VAT included in the shipping line, as the wording states and maybe that tiny bit of VAT isn't being included in the Minnesota state sales tax? I'm sure this 20 cent difference will keep scholars busy for decades to come.

 

Now, why is sales tax being calculated on the base price plus the shipping price? Well, that's a good question. Some states require sales tax to be charged on shipping and handling and some do not. Here is a breakdown from 2017: https://blog.taxjar.com/sales-tax-and-shipping/ (Note that this was before the US Supreme Court ruling that affects sales tax, so they still make reference to the "nexus" concept.) In the case of Minnesota, they do require sales tax to be charged on the shipping and handling too: https://blog.taxjar.com/is-shipping-taxable-in-minnesota/

 

In summary, they should have included some wording on the pre-order page that the price listed includes sales tax. And the order summary should really be shown differently, because it is misrepresenting how the sub-charges are being applied. A clearer listing would have the true base price, then the shipping and handling, then a VAT line, then a sales tax line and then a total.

 

And it shouldn't include "charged at a future date," as it was clearly charged immediately. I'm assuming that is wording left over from the pre-order stage. It creates confusion that the state tax will be charged a future date, but it is really stating (I'm assuming) that the total will be charged at a future date. That future date is now, so no need to state that anymore.

 

Hopefully this will reduce confusion for other customers in the USA.

[Craig 1,435]

Ok, agreed, they should have it shown a seperate line item for for tax/vat instead of including it in the base price and it isnt super clear. Probably since tax (vat) is included in the advertised base price for europe. Note I looked closer at a euro invoice, they mention the 111euro vat the very bottom. So doing a little currency conversion, euro base price is USD597.50.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/604479731156385794/605421050980859904/unknown.png

 

But europe has higher tax and shipping costs than US. So comparing final price with tax and shipping including, USD741, Minessota still paid $36.62 less than that euro order which I believe is Belgium. I paid a couple bucks more than you for California due to higher tax.

[technopenguin 0]

I really hope my order went through correctly. Was away last week and noticed both the QWERTZ request mail AND payment mail today. Filled up the request and paid (went through immediately), but my receipt does not show QWERTZ separately like Eske's receipt does.

 

I did contact Fxtec via the contact form but my last two messages were never answered so I'm hoping this time there will be a quick answer.

[michael.bosscha 142]

Hey FX team, when will the Paypal option return? I'm really itching to throw my money at you guys but right now I can't...

[shani 14]

Hmmm… The Paypal option was there this morning, but now that I’m ready to pay it’s gone :-(

 

Yeah I heard it was there too, from a friend who paid his pre-order on August 2.

But now that I wanted to pay, the Paypal option seems to be gone. :(

[B.X 19]

If you have any further concerns, please contact us directly at https://www.fxtec.com/contact/ as we don’t provide support over the community forums.

 

The https://www.fxtec.com/contact/ form is only an mailto: link so it just bounces as undeliverable after 5 days. There doesn't seem to be any working way to get support outside of the forum as your mail server is unreachable. (Thank you for providing support via the forum.)

 

Thank you for the clarification that my card was billed no VAT, only state tax. I am seeing the pattern to the poorly written software including the phrase "Shipping: $10.63 (incl. VAT)" when that's simply the shipping and "VAT" is leftover from EU customers.

 

I have no issue with paying state tax to a US based distributor who is under US law. Collection of state tax is optional for most companies. It depends on an agreement with the states, or a state specific law such as the Minnesota law mentioned, but it has become common practice to assume that such an agreement or law exists even when it doesn't. These distributors correctly forward the payments appropriately, even though unnecessarily, so the issue of criminal collection of a tax without forwarding is a non-issue.

 

[magicafternoon 38]

I am confused about shipping. Is that quoted ~10 USD charged for international shipping to me, or domestic shipping from a US-based fulfillment center? The email I received makes it sound like $706.78 is my final cost?? I am in California.

[EskeRahn 5,464]

I am confused about shipping. Is that quoted ~10 USD charged for international shipping to me, or domestic shipping from a US-based fulfillment center? The email I received makes it sound like $706.78 is my final cost?? I am in California.

$10 in shipping... Lucky you, I was charged €24 (~$27) to Denmark.... :-o

 

See Erik's post earlier, they send to US-customers from a "Fulfilment centre" in the US.

[ddark-il 100]

$10 in shipping… Lucky you, I was charged €24 (~$27) to Denmark…. :-o

 

$40 to Israel :(

And it would be more than $100 taxes..

 

 

[EskeRahn 5,464]

The https://www.fxtec.com/contact/ form is only an mailto: link so it just bounces as undeliverable after 5 days.

 

It sounds to me like you might be sending from a mail-server that does not present itself in a proper way to the receiving server. A guess could be "Helo Reject"

Personally I have had issues like that where benign incoming mails where rejected by my hosting provider's spam server.

If might be that the fxtec mail-server got a strict setup too.

Try to send from a different mail-server, e.g. a gmail account, to check that it goes through.

[Siani_8 105]

I couldn't find the option for the "I want this phone NOW" tax.

[VaZso 1,998]

I did contact Fxtec via the contact form but my last two messages were never answered so I’m hoping this time there will be a quick answer.

 

For me, they even have not received my e-mail about being a Beta tester, so I have completely missed that option - even not received any reply about refused message. I bet their mail server treated my e-mail (sent through my ISP's official mail server) as SPAM and took over the message but has instantly destroyed it.

 

Try to send your message from a "trusted" e-mail provider's own system, it may help reaching them.

I mean send it from Gmail's or Yahoo's web interface for example.

 

$10 in shipping… Lucky you, I was charged €24 (~$27) to Denmark…. :-o

 

Me too (Hungary).

 

It sounds to me like you might be sending from a mail-server that does not present itself in a proper way to the receiving server. A guess could be “Helo Reject”

 

...or the sending server's IP address is excluded from the permitted IP range or is currently listed in one of the black lists or the specific IP address is not "resolving" to the sending domain name or too many e-mails arrived from that direction, etc...