On the pre-production status

[glumreaper 144]

36 minutes ago, Shilor said:

I don't get it why some users here are threatening to cancel their order because of the delays. 

I don't think it's because of the delays. The communication has been so bad - in fact bordering on dishonest, some people have said - that there's a feeling almost of customers being cheated. I believe a lot of the cancellations and threats to do so are essentially a protest. FXtec aren't listening to people on the forum. The customer support doesn't seem to know or be able to do much beyond vague responses. But there's one thing that people can do to send a clear message to FXtec.

Edited November 9, 2019 by glumreaper
Edit

[david 929]

5 minutes ago, Shilor said:

I don't get it why some users here are threatening to cancel their order because of the delays.

If you cancel now, you won't get a pro1 at all and I think that is not your final goal, is it?

And I, for instance, won't give up my position in the queue. 😉

My guess is that some people who are upset about the delays fear that there is a chance of losing their money.  They'd rather get their money refunded now, since that appears to be a sure thing, rather than risk it later (if it turned out to be a scam or fxtec were to go bankrupt...and to be clear, I don't think it is a scam, but some people from some countries do have that fear). 

The other reason could be that they need a phone sooner rather than later (due to issues with their current phones), and have been in that state for a number of months, so they are reaching their limit for waiting.

It could also be a way to voice their anger, but they really aren't going to cancel.

Aside from the people canceling, there are legitimate reasons to be upset.  We've received false information over the past few months and the date has been pushed into the future a number of times at the last minute.  There is a difference between poor communication and incorrect information.  We've received both types.  Whether the incorrect information has been intentionally dishonest, or due to the people reporting the information being misinformed themselves, or due to negligence is debatable.  Regardless, everyone handles being on the receiving end of this differently. 

Some people are simply pointing out the problems around honest communication, but are still happy that a company is making a keyboard phone finally.  I fall into that camp, but I'm sympathetic to other viewpoints.  It doesn't mean we don't want fxtec to succeed and it isn't that we don't think the phone will be a good product.

There could be others who like the idea of the phone, but aren't as desperate for a keyboard phone, so waiting is much more upsetting.  And then there are other people, for whom having their money tied up for an extra 3+ months from what was promised, is aggravating and worrisome.

I'm certainly not giving up my position in the queue either! 😉

[glumreaper 144]

Another masterful summary there, David.

[vlycop 38]

3 hours ago, Shilor said:

I don't get it why some users here are threatening to cancel their order because of the delays.

If you cancel now, you won't get a pro1 at all and I think that is not your final goal, is it?

And I, for instance, won't give up my position in the queue. 😉

This is wrong.

I have lost any trust in FX. This had happened in 2 wave.

First everything was silent or OK for the 29 of October, and on the said day they talked about a month of delay. Dick move, they knew they wouldn't be on time way before. It's not like half of the phone went KO. It made me doute them.

Then they cancelled the hard case who was supposed to be shipping with the phone AFTER they where send. This was another thing they purposefully didn't talked about but knew about it. There, right there i considered them as immoral and not trustworthy.

Rather then whine about it (did they ever listened ? Did we ever only had an officials PR person down there ?) i cancelled my order and got my money back quickly.

Pro:

I'm nolonger waiting for a products to ship god know when in the X batch

If the company goes under after the first couple batch, i already have my money (hop you have insurance, customer is last served)

If the phone have bug, or anything that will be seen by the early adopters, i will be able to consider theme.

I will be able to order it again, from stock, with fast shipping. If the company succeed and the device is well reviewed, NOTHING stop me from ordering again.

Con :

i won't get the device as quickly

i won't get the pouch that i didn't care about (i'm wasn't in for the headphone)

i am making it harder for FX

If FX failed i will never get a device

 

So ... If you trust FX enough, or having the device first is worth the risk to loose your money, stop complaining on a forum that isn't read by FX PR or Leader. It's more noise and source of anger

If you believe they are acting to fishy for you, cancel your order. In Europe the price is the same right now, but event if not, 200$ for a guaranteed shipping product isn't worth it ? Will you accept loosing it all if they close ?

Make a chose.

Edited November 9, 2019 by vlycop

[vlycop 38]

30 minutes ago, david said:

My guess is that some people who ... 

...dammit wasn't fast enougth 😄

[ksal95 227]

1 hour ago, Shilor said:

I don't get it why some users here are threatening to cancel their order because of the delays.

If you cancel now, you won't get a pro1 at all and I think that is not your final goal, is it?

And I, for instance, won't give up my position in the queue. 😉

 

They will be sorely lacking, in the clacking 

[glumreaper 144]

1 hour ago, vlycop said:

This is wrong.

I have lost any trust in FX. This had happend in 2 wave.

...

What you've said makes a lot of sense.

 

You know it's funny, looking back and thinking about how my own attitude has changed. I remember telling people at work about the phone excitedly. Then later when those people asked about it I remember explaining about the delay and saying "oh you know, small UK startup". But I don't feel like that know. I still want the phone but I don't have much faith in FXtec right now.

 

And yes, the case was a dick move, which has contributed to my feelings.

Edited November 9, 2019 by glumreaper
Edit

[VaZso 1,998]

1 minute ago, glumreaper said:

You know it's funny, looking back and thinking about for my own attitude has changed. I remember telling people at work about the phone excitedly. Then later when those people asked about it I remember explaining about the delay and saying "oh you know, small UK startup".

That is why I have not spoke about this phone at my work. They will see it when I have it in my hands.
(I spoke about Keyboard Mod earlier and did not want similar questions.)

I knew it will be a hard project and I expected the phone to come a bit later than it currently seems to come.
There were several things to solve and several problems may come up.

The only thing what I currently don't like is their current communication solution.
If there are any information one can use to count what may happen, I would like to hear it.
Also, I would like to hear if any delays. I don't mind if delays overcome my expectations. I may recount my expectations again.
The worst thing is if they say something, then have some delays but they also don't speak about delays till the last minute.

Maybe there are people who understand things like unexpected delays or best case-worst case expectations while others are not willing to even try to understand it.
Maybe there are some groups of people who worth to be informed.
Even it would be good to be somebody who can and will answer questions officially on their official forum...

 

[Gon009 70]

12 hours ago, vlycop said:

(...)

So ... If you trust FX enough, or having the device first is worth the risk to loose your money, stop complaining on a forum that isn't read by FX PR or Leader. It's more noise and source of anger

(...)

 

The forum is read by Fxtec, someone in this topic said that Fxtec lied and Chen made a twitter post whining about it. So, even the top person knows what is happening here on forums. Fxtec just decides to ignore own customers and treat us like we aren't even worth being told what is happening with the phone and they think that some information about first batch that barely covers anyone is enough. Anyway, I would be surprised if Fxtec didn't read the forum at all, it would be an insult to everyone who write here. This is the only way to force information from Fxtec because they don't tell their support about details either.

Also, pre-orders means that money should be protected. However someone posted here that he wanted to cancel the order but twice that person got emails from fxtec persuading to not to cancel his order instead. I wish that person could share more info about email contents but so far no messages from that person. If this is really true then it may be very worrying but without more details we can't know what really happened in these emails or if the situation was even real.

Another thing is that Fxtec promised to ask for payment only few weeks before shipping and we were lied about it(let's see if they will whine about it again). In case Fxtec goes out of business, you can even chargeback. I paid with Revolut and there are 120 days from transaction or from supposed delivery date so I am pretty safe. So if you write to support with questions about delivery date of your Pro1 you will have a proof just in case they go bankrupt. It's not igg or kickstarter anyway so they will have to refund your money but chargeback will be the last resort if they will be unable to do this.

We don't know what is happening in Fxtec and if they are already going down, we won't know this until the last moment.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Gon009

[Zamasu 258]

9 minutes ago, Gon009 said:

Another thing is that Fxtec promised to ask for payment only few weeks before shipping and we were lied about it

To be fair, it's not a lie if they fully believe that to be the case at the moment they say that. I'm not completely sure about the timeline regarding this, but I think they've only said that a couple of times way before asking for payments, and I think it's very plausible that they thought they would ship soon after asking for payment then. When they started talking about when they were asking for payments, I think they clarified that the shipping wouldn't be a few weeks after anymore, that things have changed.

A lie is a lie if you're aware that you're wrong, if you're not aware that you're wrong, you're just wrong. In this case I don't see enough reason to call them liars, it's very likely plans just changed outside of their control.

[VaZso 1,998]

20 minutes ago, Gon009 said:

However someone posted here that he wanted to cancel the order but twice that person got emails from fxtec persuading to not to cancel his order instead. I wish that person could share more info about email contents but so far no messages from that person. If this is really true then it may be very worrying but without more details we can't know what really happened in these emails or if the situation was even real.

Yes, we don't know what happened or not.

Anyway, support may have been asked to stay because an order number had been associated to that order and wanted to ensure the situation of receiving both the phone and refund will not happen. Maybe the modification of the list they sent to partners is not even easy.

I don't know the background but there may be several reasons in a specific case.

Also, we heard in this forum about successful refund and also IGG backers were refunded on request.

Edited November 10, 2019 by VaZso

[vlycop 38]

18 minutes ago, Gon009 said:

Also, pre-orders means that money should be protected.

No, not really, in your case yes because your bank protect you. But if FX go under, customer don't get refund until the bank and all dept to other company (component, phone already build, sas subscription) are paid for. Usealy customers get little to nothing.

[EskeRahn 5,459]

56 minutes ago, VaZso said:

Yes, we don't know what happened or not.

Anyway, support may have been asked to stay because an order number had been associated to that order and wanted to ensure the situation of receiving both the phone and refund will not happen. Maybe the modification of the list they sent to partners is not even easy.

I don't know the background but there may be several reasons in a specific case.

Also, we heard in this forum about successful refund and also IGG backers were refunded on request.

Also remember that not all in this very long thread that have been talking about refunds actually have an order. Like any other site here are trolls too.

[Hook 3,018]

4 hours ago, Gon009 said:

The forum is read by Fxtec, someone in this topic said that Fxtec lied and Chen made a twitter post whining about it.

Actually, I believe that tweet was for comments being made elsewhere—Telegram, IIRC, but I could be wrong.  He does post here, as Waxberry I believe.  I doubt he has a lot of time to spend here these days.  

If he does read here, hopefully he remains aware of the rule of forums.  People tend to post most when they have complaints but there are probably a lot more people who are disappointed by delays, but are happy to keep going and give them their support.

Yes, their communication sucks. But their phone won't.

The communication won't get fixed right now.  I still trust them.  Because I have seen steady if slow progress.

They are only really guilty of believing up to the last minute that other companies are going to come through for them. 😉 And, frankly, I'm glad they are putting all effort into getting us our phones rather than circling back about the case thing.  I freely admit I didn't like the first case they showed and I don't tend to use cases anyway, so I'm biased there.

Go, Chen, Go!

[Zamasu 258]

Reading some other forums, and there are still people that are expecting their phones to ship soon, even though they're not in the first batch. And realistically they'll only get a tracking code in 2 to 3 weeks. Personally I am annoyed at the subpar communication, but at least I think I have a decent grasp of the upcoming timeline now. No wonder some people are pissed, they've been waiting for 11 days without any update and they think they should've gotten a tracking code already, and they'll wait for 2 to 3 weeks still.

[Gon009 70]

35 minutes ago, Hook said:

Actually, I believe that tweet was for comments being made elsewhere—Telegram, IIRC, but I could be wrong.  He does post here, as Waxberry I believe.  I doubt he has a lot of time to spend here these days.  

If he does read here, hopefully he remains aware of the rule of forums.  People tend to post most when they have complaints but there are probably a lot more people who are disappointed by delays, but are happy to keep going and give them their support.

Yes, their communication sucks. But their phone won't.

The communication won't get fixed right now.  I still trust them.  Because I have seen steady if slow progress.

They are only really guilty of believing up to the last minute that other companies are going to come through for them. 😉 And, frankly, I'm glad they are putting all effort into getting us our phones rather than circling back about the case thing.  I freely admit I didn't like the first case they showed and I don't tend to use cases anyway, so I'm biased there.

Go, Chen, Go!

Post and tweet was on the same day but I don't know which was first because forums show only date.  I guess it was about the forums because the word "lie" was used few times in that post.

Phone won't suck also if it won't be delivered because something that doesn't exist can't suck. Still they didn't try to give us any proof of any other batch than first one and still first batch info starts to be really confusing as people here pointed this. Soon it will be two week since shipping date and shipping didn't even start yet. Fxtec still didn't admit that they have delays.

About the case, they could tell us much sooner, again, we got to know about it only because people wanted to know if case will be included in all preorders. If people didn't ask we would probably know about this until people unboxed their phones. This is clear dishonesty. Still, even if we can be at least glad that they didn't delay the phone because of case, they decided to include almost useless sleeve, so they had to put effort into fancy looking sock that most of us will probably throw into closet. How many people we see in daily life use sleeves for their phones? I don't know anyone. However I know many people who use hard cases or elastic ones. Also quite few people I know use tempered glass protectors, something we can't use on Pro1 because of curved screen and case was meant to solve the problem of not being able to protect the screen in accidental drops. Eske had really interesting ideas of possible Pro1 case.

It seems that Unihertz Titan campaigns ended because the production is about to start now in November. If Fxtec fails now I will be pissed and probably will have to buy overpriced BB Key2, this will be the only option now to have qwerty. Still, I doubt I could survive having a crappy screen size and probably would stay with slabs.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Gon009

[EskeRahn 5,459]

7 hours ago, Gon009 said:

Phone won't suck also if it won't be delivered because something that doesn't exist can't suck

🙄

[divstar 164]

Well I am not entirely sure since I haven't checked my banking account since Thursday, but apparently since I didn't get a notice of the phone being shipped, I was not charged. Scam wouldn't do that; they'd get as much money fast as they can - and run. But they don't. I believe it's just their poor communication with their customers. But other than that they are probably doing well.

[VaZso 1,998]

47 minutes ago, divstar said:

I believe it's just their poor communication with their customers. But other than that they are probably doing well.

I am also hope so.

Anyway, some of us (who are in the first batch and received mails) may receive valid tracking numbers during this week and maybe they will receive their phone soon.
So something may change on this forum very soon if everything go right. 🙂

I am looking forward to see their feedback soon.

[netman 1,424]

2 hours ago, divstar said:

I believe it's just their poor communication with their customers. But other than that they are probably doing well.

This should end this thread :D. As Kintaro Hattori said: "don't hurry, don't stop".

[twelfth 6]

On 11/9/2019 at 11:27 AM, glumreaper said:

I don't think it's because of the delays. The communication has been so bad - in fact bordering on dishonest, some people have said - that there's a feeling almost of customers being cheated. I believe a lot of the cancellations and threats to do so are essentially a protest. FXtec aren't listening to people on the forum. The customer support doesn't seem to know or be able to do much beyond vague responses. But there's one thing that people can do to send a clear message to FXtec.

Precisely. This is why I cancelled. Their lack of communication and updates is a shockingly typical habit of shady kickstarters. 

I wouldn't care of the delays extended until next year... *if they bothered to keep us in the loop every step of the way.*
 

On 11/3/2019 at 10:53 AM, EskeRahn said:

And more in accordance with reality, the same goes for  "sorry something did not go as planned and the shipping has been delayed because X"

It is more than likely that the delays are related to things outside their control.

Keeping us updated is not outside of their control.

[Foop 5]

35 minutes ago, twelfth said:

Precisely. This is why I cancelled.

Then why are you still hanging around on the forum? 

[ksal95 227]

48 minutes ago, Foop said:

Then why are you still hanging around on the forum? 

Because it'd make too much sense to cancel an order and leave the forum.

[vlycop 38]

1 hour ago, Foop said:

Then why are you still hanging around on the forum? 

I'm still around to , and i have send proof of cancellation.

Being invested in a project, wanting to know how it's going... There is nothing wrong in staying around. It's actually because i was passionate that i feal let down and betray.

You just can't complaint again and again ... 

[A Dude 99]

The more people cancel, the faster I'll get mine! 😄