On the pre-production status

[rejujacob 77]

2 hours ago, Gon009 said:

All that confusion is probably because people in Fxtec who handle contracts with factory/shipment companies are trying to hide everything what isn't related to first batch from people like it is some sort of national security thing. Support and probably also Eric aren't allowed to know what is happening. So small company, so many secrets...

I think the delays are mainly because many things are not in their direct control. Small company, hence maybe at mercy of various vendors...

I am sure things will be different if there will be Pro2, with better experience and buying power...

[Sailfishmods 0]

Is it batch 2 or 3 if the order ID is 30xxx?

[mahasamatman 2]

I sure hope my order number 6418 puts me in the first batch. My current phone is on its last legs...

[VaZso 1,997]

41 minutes ago, mahasamatman said:

I sure hope my order number 6418 puts me in the first batch. My current phone is on its last legs...

Have you received any e-mail from them regarding that your order is being assigned to a Pro1?

If not, you may be in the second batch I think...

[_DW_ 628]

9 minutes ago, VaZso said:

Have you received any e-mail from them regarding that your order is being assigned to a Pro1?

If not, you may be in the second batch I think...

Your only in first if you backed the keyboard mod

[npatel1050 132]

7 hours ago, SchattengestaIt said:

I asked specifically when I would receive my device (regular order in mid-october) and they told me that all preorders should receive their device by end of November (shipping from factory starts mid-November).

They were also optimistic to complete shipping all orders until then, definitely before christmas.

This wouldn't be the first time they have pushed back timelines, they're just simply not announcing them now in emails or videos. We are subject to sifting through these forums to find answers.

As far as I can see they shipped a small batch on the 29th of October and called that on schedule. Feels misleading to the masses even if it's technically correct.

They are still avoiding telling us how big the batches are and which batch we're in, let alone when we should expect our device. Not being very forthcoming...

Remember originally they were planning on launching in summer. Multiple delays later we're in November and still getting murky answers. Mid November? End of November? Before Christmas? I don't appreciate it at all.

Delays can happen but I wish they owned up to it. Really feels like they're withholding information and we're getting strung along. They know for sure how big the batches are, production capacity and estimated ship times. With all that info I think they can be more detailed than "mid November"

[Gon009 70]

7 hours ago, rejujacob said:

I think the delays are mainly because many things are not in their direct control. Small company, hence maybe at mercy of various vendors...

I am sure things will be different if there will be Pro2, with better experience and buying power...

Except now Fxtec don't even admit that they have delays. The know things but they hide it from us, it was also like before but now it's worse. They are making even worse mistakes than before but now at least there's a high chance that people will be able to get their phones so people try to be patient for a while now. Fxtec can't learn at all and if Pro2 will ever exist then I doubt it will sell better. Let's see first if people will start buying Pro1s after they finally can be ordered without any delays, so far Unihertz Titan has more than twice of backers than Pro1 and Unihertz is a crowdfunded project so money can't be 100% safe in case of something bad. Also, if Pro1 is really about to be a long-term device, very little amount of people will buy Pro2 unless Pro2 will be announced after ~4-5 years from Pro1 release. Many people who bought Pro1 never paid so much for a phone and expect it to survive for many years, for that high price 2 years lifespan would be an insult to everyone who bought it.

Let's see first how Pro1 will work when people will use it for a year or two. So far based on opinions of prototypes Pro1 seems to be a really good device. Maybe Fxtec are good designers but having a PR and treating customers like customers and not like brainwashed sheep is also important. For these reasons I don't expect many people wanting to go into that crapstorm ever again if Pro2 will be announced even after many years and only most devoted fans or people who didn't know about Pro1 will order it. Personally if Pro1 will be a really godly device and in ~2025 they will announce Pro2, I will wait for the general availability and then maybe buy it. I will never preorder anything from Fxtec again. 

[electristan 34]

2 minutes ago, Gon009 said:

 in ~2025 they will announce Pro2, I will wait for the general availability and then maybe buy it. I will never preorder anything from Fxtec again. 

Very well said, and where i am at as well.

[theo.hallenius 31]

I just hope to receive my pre-order before Christmas (that's when postal delays take even longer) and if that doesn't happen I will be requesting a refund in mid-December. That's pretty much the deadline I've set for myself. Otherwise there will be holidays and shipping and manufacturing may not resume until mid-Jan, which means arrival most likely February, exactly a year after I placed the pre-order.

Edited November 7, 2019 by theo.hallenius

[benoitjeffrey 61]

51 minutes ago, VaZso said:

Have you received any e-mail from them regarding that your order is being assigned to a Pro1?

If not, you may be in the second batch I think...

I'm part of the moto mod backers and I didn't received this email yet, maybe it's a regional think?

[Hook 2,907]

7 minutes ago, benoitjeffrey said:

I'm part of the moto mod backers and I didn't received this email yet, maybe it's a regional think?

What Erik said was:

" there aren't enough units in the first batch for all of the backers. The coming second batch will cover all IGG backers + most normal pre-orders "

 

That was, I believe, the last update he gave.  Don't know what "most" means but he said they intend to start sending orders (not pre-orders) in December.

 

(Found the neat trick of finding Erik's updates, in order, without navigating through this thread by clicking on the link to Erik's profile. 😉

[Kabbone 36]

20 minutes ago, benoitjeffrey said:

I'm part of the moto mod backers and I didn't received this email yet, maybe it's a regional think?

like Hook already stated, there just weren't enough devices in the first batch to satisfy all IGG Pre orders. In my region have been people on the first batch, but me neither as a IGG backer, so it's not just regional 😉 

Let's just be optimistic for the second batch in November. Here are already wild speculations ongoing again

[Swond 120]

When talking about some Pro2, if it would just hypotheticaly come one day.. There won´t be any backers in the beginning and maybe also no need of preorders. If they will sometime make another device, then it will be definitely only when the first one succeeded. And therefore they should have some money from the company profit. What I mean, they should prepare the second device quietly and then introduce it just before the final products are leading to the factory line. When you try to date it on nowadays PRO1 and what we know about the production status: If I were them, I would show the new device (just imagine it is this year) on IFA Berlin 2019. That means some two/three months before you can fully purchase (well at least what FxTec says for Pro1). And after the IFA show, there MAY be preorder availible. Just for two months.. I am pretty sure that the plan was like this - preorders much closer to the production date, but it was for the first time and many many things happened. So lets see if some successor will come and whether the circumstances will change 🙂 I hope the answer will be positive. Lets see after few years.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Swond

[VaZso 1,997]

2 hours ago, _DW_ said:

Your only in first if you backed the keyboard mod

 

39 minutes ago, benoitjeffrey said:

I'm part of the moto mod backers and I didn't received this email yet, maybe it's a regional think?

 

I'm also part of the Moto Mod backers and I have also not received that mail.

 

1 hour ago, Gon009 said:

Also, if Pro1 is really about to be a long-term device, very little amount of people will buy Pro2 unless Pro2 will be announced after ~4-5 years from Pro1 release. Many people who bought Pro1 never paid so much for a phone and expect it to survive for many years, for that high price 2 years lifespan would be an insult to everyone who bought it.

 

For me, I would buy Pro2 even when my Pro1 is still functioning well.
...mainly because I would like to keep this style of phone being produced.

I also hope the phone will have much more than 2-3 years of lifespan, but I also hope a Pro2 device may be available in not more than 2-3 years from now.

[rejujacob 77]

56 minutes ago, Gon009 said:

Except now Fxtec don't even admit that they have delays. The know things but they hide it from us, it was also like before but now it's worse. They are making even worse mistakes than before but now at least there's a high chance that people will be able to get their phones so people try to be patient for a while now. Fxtec can't learn at all and if Pro2 will ever exist then I doubt it will sell better. Let's see first if people will start buying Pro1s after they finally can be ordered without any delays, so far Unihertz Titan has more than twice of backers than Pro1 and Unihertz is a crowdfunded project so money can't be 100% safe in case of something bad. Also, if Pro1 is really about to be a long-term device, very little amount of people will buy Pro2 unless Pro2 will be announced after ~4-5 years from Pro1 release. Many people who bought Pro1 never paid so much for a phone and expect it to survive for many years, for that high price 2 years lifespan would be an insult to everyone who bought it.

Let's see first how Pro1 will work when people will use it for a year or two. So far based on opinions of prototypes Pro1 seems to be a really good device. Maybe Fxtec are good designers but having a PR and treating customers like customers and not like brainwashed sheep is also important. For these reasons I don't expect many people wanting to go into that crapstorm ever again if Pro2 will be announced even after many years and only most devoted fans or people who didn't know about Pro1 will order it. Personally if Pro1 will be a really godly device and in ~2025 they will announce Pro2, I will wait for the general availability and then maybe buy it. I will never preorder anything from Fxtec again. 

No one can deny their communication has been very poor. I too have pointed it out in my other posts. But since they are on the job now, I am willing to put it behind and look at them more positively, considering it's only 1-2 year old startup with no name in the market. As you maybe aware they had to settle for Snapdragon 835 because Qualcomm would not supply them 845 or 855. Like wise many vendors may fail to meet their demands in time as these vendors may need to supply to other "big" players. So I believe the repeatedly failed delivery promises may have these reasons, and it might have been much embarrassing for them as well.

Many people like to splurge and change to "latest" models every year, including flagship phones from Samsung, iphone etc., which are much more expensive than Pro1. 
So not necessary everyone would wait for it to complete it's lifespan, if more models/ options are available in the market. (Though personally I would like to use it at least for 4-5 years).

So I feel even if Pro1 gets average success, F(x)tec  may try to bring out Pro2 within 2 years, to make a better presence in the market and ensure that people don't forget F(x)tec.

 

 

 

 

[VaZso 1,997]

3 minutes ago, rejujacob said:

So I feel even if Pro1 gets average success, F(x)tec  may try to bring out Pro2 within 2 years, to make a better presence in the market and ensure that people don't forget F(x)tec.

Today's people may think also Pro1 as an outdated device. It isn't, but they will definitively not buy it one or two years later. Also, people don't really like "downgrading" from a higher-spec device to buy a phone which has real keyboard.

So in this point of view, its worth considering to start designing a higher-spec successor in a few months and reach manufacturing state in 1-1.5 years from now.
...just to make higher presence and reach people who would like to have higher-spec phones with more current hardware.

[enPfzr4v 239]

14 minutes ago, rejujacob said:

they had to settle for Snapdragon 835 because Qualcomm would not supply them 845 or 855

The 845 is only 14% faster than the 835. I wouldn't sweat that small of a difference.

[EskeRahn 5,399]

17 minutes ago, VaZso said:

For me, I would buy Pro2 even when my Pro1 is still functioning well.
...mainly because I would like to keep this style of phone being produced.

I also hope the phone will have much more than 2-3 years of lifespan, but I also hope a Pro2 device may be available in not more than 2-3 years from now.

I hope they will have enough success to make a successor every 2-3 years. Those that would like the device to be active for 4-5 years, would simple skip the next - as easy as that.

[VaZso 1,997]

5 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

I hope they will have enough success to make a successor every 2-3 years. Those that would like the device to be active for 4-5 years, would simple skip the next - as easy as that.

I also hope the same.
That also means they will have to start doing something in 1-1.5 years to have enough time for a new design.

Maybe a new design can be done a bit earlier as there may have solutions which are exists now in Por1's design. Also electronically, also mechanically, also the experience and business connections.

However, the next few months will be very important in this aspect for them as it will be the interval when they may decide about a successor and find if its worth the effort.
So I hope they gain as much profit as possible and for this reason, the availability of shipment-ready stocks before Christmas would be very welcome...

[glumreaper 144]

2 hours ago, Gon009 said:

Except now Fxtec don't even admit that they have delays. The know things but they hide it from us, it was also like before but now it's worse. 

This is how I feel. The communications were poor, but now they seem to have given up and think it's ok to just maintain silence. (Apart from the odd snarky comment on twitter from Liangchen.)

 

If anyone's interested to hear, I also e-mailed support, and was told that my 17xxx order number should be in the mid-November batch, which they confirmed meant getting to me in early December.

 

I thought I'd contact them because my old phone is on its last legs and I seriously need to decide if I keep on waiting or cancel. At this point I want to wait, but am just finding I don't trust that December isn't going to slip to January with no official explanation.

[Tim6263 134]

I have given a good bit of time over the last few days to ponder this thread ... How about taking a broader way of thinking about F(x)tec and the ‘factory’ - the ‘warehouse’ - the ‘fulfilment centres’?  The very first thing to keep in mind: F(x)tec is a small start-up. I know we've all paid what for a lot of us is a big $€£amount; but as Liangchen said in the second video, the Pro1 is not like most other phones around just now, and takes quite a bit more assembly. Given this significant design difference, for what F(x)tec are offering I consider that what we’ve paid is not so OTT.  Extend this then to F(x)tec; they also are trying to deliver an industry non-standard form factor device, to a fixed budget.
On another level, keeping in mind that F(x)tec are a small UK start-up, not only do they have limited financial resources, I suspect that they have a relatively small human resource pool too.   We therefore have to consider that the ‘factory’, ‘warehouse’ & ‘fulfilment centres’ do not belong to F(x)tec; they are services outsourced, purchased or commissioned by F(x)tec.  This was made plain by Liangchen Chen’s tweet (5:12 PM · Nov 3, 2019) “...no private warehouse...”. Taken together with his tweet the following day in which he mentioned ‘Fedex’, in connection with “regional fulfilment centre” and a tracking number, and it is possible to piece together a picture of how F(x)tec is employing 3rd party resources, on its behalf, to manage the global operation required to turn their vision of the Pro1 into physical product. [...]

 

 

[Tim6263 134]

[...]  Liangchen &/or Adrian &/or others take the specification, design, etc. for the Pro1 to ‘X’ number of factories, eventually settling on one that gives a sensible balance between quality, performance and price;
The chosen Shenzen factory takes the many parts and assembles them according F(x)tec plans and specifications;
The finished product is transported to the (non-F(x)tec) warehouse in Hong Kong;
HK warehouse staff, with existing expertise, acting on F(x)tec instructions, allocate the shipment to the various international export shipping agents;
The shipping agents, independent of but under the instructions of F(x)tec, receive their shipments from customs.  At their ‘fulfilment centres’, they then re-address the individual orders – with information again provided by F(x)tec – and make the final deliveries to individual customers.
What I hope I have set out is detailed & logical enough to make sense; yet also shows how a relatively small London start-up is both employing and managing global resources, for our benefit, yet on a limited budget.  It ought also show that with the number of different actors taking part in the play – who are not in the direct employ of F(x)tec – it is perhaps more understandable how F(x)tec struggle to put an accurate and timely date on production and shipping much of the time. [...]

[david 918]

I may buy the Pro2 (assuming there is one) just as an insurance policy, to have a keyboard phone for a longer period of time.  There may not be other similar phones produced by other companies, and I intend to keep using keyboard phones as long as I can.  Buying a Pro2 while the Pro1 is still fully functional will allow me to go back to the Pro1 if/when the Pro2 fails.

Unlike other phones that are more mass produced, I don't think there will be many Pro1s to be found new, or even used, after a handful of years.  A lot of people are going to hold onto these phones or quickly buy any that become available at a reduced price.

Skipping the Pro2 and waiting for the Pro3 is risky, because if no Pro3 is produced, then it is too late to get a Pro2 possibly (assuming they sell out of them).  Same goes for waiting for the Pro2 and not buying a Pro1 now.

[Tim6263 134]

[...]  The one nagging doubt I have is their continued message that subsequent batches will be a lot larger than the first.  Given that Liangchen stated: [transcription, 2nd update video, https://vimeo.com/369691049]:
“so average one workforce probably takes up to 4 to 5 hours to assemble a full device”
Also that it took over a month (sometime in September through to the end of October) to produce the first small batch, why should it take only a few weeks to produce & ship a much larger batch in mid-November?  It seems more reasonable to suppose monthly shipments of a similar size to the first; which in turn means pre-orders are unlikely to be completed until some time in the New Year.  I acknowledge that that’s conjecture, and it would be nice to be proved wrong.  Only time will tell, so for now I will wait and see.

[EskeRahn 5,399]

3 minutes ago, Tim6263 said:

[...]  The one nagging doubt I have is their continued message that subsequent batches will be a lot larger than the first.  Given that Liangchen stated: [transcription, 2nd update video, https://vimeo.com/369691049]:
“so average one workforce probably takes up to 4 to 5 hours to assemble a full device”
Also that it took over a month (sometime in September through to the end of October) to produce the first small batch, why should it take only a few weeks to produce & ship a much larger batch in mid-November?  It seems more reasonable to suppose monthly shipments of a similar size to the first; which in turn means pre-orders are unlikely to be completed until some time in the New Year.  I acknowledge that that’s conjecture, and it would be nice to be proved wrong.  Only time will tell, so for now I will wait and see.

I do not recall the exact comment, but at some point they said that an important factor in choosing the factory they did, was its ability to quickly change scale. So could be that there are a lot more people doing batch two than batch one. I mean they are highly unlikely to have had any machines particularly created for the Pro1, so if a company with a lot of programmable machines are in play, they can quickly scale up, after F(x)tec have seen with batch one that they can produce the product to the required specs and quality demands, they can do a large batch 2.