On the pre-production status

[EskeRahn 5,350]

11 minutes ago, dreamflasher said:

So there is no 2nd batch anymore? Units will be shipped unit-by-unit?

You are loosing me... I read it as there is no third batch, but that the INFO to each customer will be giving drip by drip as things are done.

It is like the old joke, How do you eat an Elephant: Bit by bit. The whole thing does not happen by simply pressing a button,

[ksal95 227]

29 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

It is like the old joke, How do you eat an Elephant: Bit by bit.

Idk man, I'm pretty hungry 😁

[Waxberry 638]

The batch size will increase (quite rapidly) and we aim to deliver to everyone under batch 3.

The reason of starting from smaller but gradually to much bigger production batch is purely on manufacturing perspective. 

As we are all aware of this product is much more complicated in production than almost any of the general smartphones nowadays. We have encountered about twice of the procedures than producing a normal phone.

In general each production step/procedure has a successful rate. Before the production we could only estimate the rate and do the work carefully in order to minimise the waste/loss during some process. For example, the process of removing the light leak from edge of screen (happens 100% with another phone model using the same display module) has a certain successful rate. 

In order to control the successful rate and to save the material, the best way is to improve gradually with all the processes and not putting everything together at once. For example, we start with X amount of production and we get (X - Y) units that can be shipped. With the experience we learned during this process, we can then do 2X amount of production and we can ship (2X - Z) units, where Z < 2Y

Now we have passed the X and will finish the 2X this week. And we will speed up more and more.

[Zamasu 258]

I completely understand that people want more information, since the wait is painful (maybe even moreso now that people are getting theirs). But asking for specifics like how many orders there are in a batch is something you can't expect Fxtec to just give. Yes they're a startup that's fairly close to their customers, but they're still a business.

1 hour ago, dreamflasher said:

Thank you very much Erik for responding here. I am an IGG backer, QWERTZ, and my payment was a couple of days later after it was possible because the ordering system back then was quite buggy and I had to create a new order, because the support couldn't rescue my first order. I was told be the support two weeks ago that I will be in the 2nd batch. Now my simply question is: When will the 2nd batch get their stock assigned emails? Would be great if you could get this information for us, thank you for your help!

Assuming it's about the same as the previous batch, it would be 4 business days after shipment from factories. So, middle of this week would be the shipment from factories, or the 20th, and stock assigned would be the 26th. The second batch would probably be arriving at customers in week 49 or week 50 I'd guess. Note, this is obviously not official, and is mostly based on how the first batch went with a bit of a buffer because nothing seems to to fluidly. There's a chance the second batch might go faster, or slower.

[gfragkistas 9]

I am surprised at the level of unprofessionalism. I sent an inquiry asking for a delivery estimate of my number 83xx order. I got a generic reply that I will get the unit before Christmas!! When I challenged this I got a lengthy totaly silly incomprehensible description of how things work(according to them). The long and short of this is that they have no idea about how much and when they produce, they have no idea about when and how many they will ship. Quite irritating considering that I have been coerced to pay at end of July for a two weeks delivery. 

A bunch of amateurs trying to do business.......... 

 

 

 

[Swond 120]

8 minutes ago, gfragkistas said:

I am surprised at the level of unprofessionalism. I sent an inquiry asking for a delivery estimate of my number 83xx order. I got a generic reply that I will get the unit before Christmas!! When I challenged this I got a lengthy totaly silly incomprehensible description of how things work(according to them). The long and short of this is that they have no idea about how much and when they produce, they have no idea about when and how many they will ship. Quite irritating considering that I have been coerced to pay at end of July for a two weeks delivery. 

A bunch of amateurs trying to do business.......... 

 

 

 

Would be nice to let us know what is your business and when you projected, built, producted and post your mobile device last time 🙂 Or any other product..

Edited November 18, 2019 by Swond

[Craig 1,435]

14 minutes ago, gfragkistas said:

A bunch of amateurs trying to do business..........

 

Gotta start somewhere 🙂 - and I'm glad it was with this device, nobody else with more experience is making it, so if it takes them a little time to get it right and figure out logistics at the beginning, I'll deal with that. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Craig

[gfragkistas 9]

I agree entirely. It is fine with me and there would not be a problem if they did not ask me to pay for a 2 week delivery. 

[Hook 2,821]

Just now, gfragkistas said:

I agree entirely. It is fine with me and there would not be a problem if they did not ask me to pay for a 2 week delivery. 

They didn't.  Although they didn't meet their deadline, it was made clear in the request for payment that it would be about 6 weeks (mid-September) for delivery. 

[gfragkistas 9]

I stand to be corrected on the 2 or 6 weeks. It does not change much though. Money should not be requested to be paid 

[netman 1,424]

10 minutes ago, gfragkistas said:

Money should not be requested to be paid 

🤔 I have been shopping the wrong way all my life.

[Waxberry 638]

47 minutes ago, gfragkistas said:

I am surprised at the level of unprofessionalism. I sent an inquiry asking for a delivery estimate of my number 83xx order. I got a generic reply that I will get the unit before Christmas!! When I challenged this I got a lengthy totaly silly incomprehensible description of how things work(according to them). The long and short of this is that they have no idea about how much and when they produce, they have no idea about when and how many they will ship. Quite irritating considering that I have been coerced to pay at end of July for a two weeks delivery. 

A bunch of amateurs trying to do business.......... 

 

 

 

I think it is very easy to put a conclusion such as "amateur" or "unprofessional" to anything doesn't meet expectations. From restaurant failed to cook a meal meets customers specific  taste to train did not come in time. Anything can be unprofessional if it happens.

But in reality we all know life doesn't always go as expected, there is no simple definition of professionalism but many many small factors. A simple conclusion like this can't take into account of every aspect but only show the original PoV over simplifies this world.

But nonetheless I take the criticism. We probably indeed can be defined as "unprofessional" because the whole team from marketing to R&D to manufacturing adding up together is probably smaller than a PR department of a big player. But we aimed high and we wanted to deliver something they can't. We are unprofessional also because we also didn't have deep pocket to pay for another round of components if first manufacturing goes wrong. Or to hire more work force to help on some small aspects and for the team to take a holiday. 

I guess non of the above matters because the device did come as originally planned, so I accept that. And I am proud even Samsung Huawei etc with the deep pocket they are also unprofessional with their folding phones. Which despite being expensive, not more difficult than what we are doing. 

Also let me clear that when we took payment on the beginning of August we intended to dispatch by September. I didn't know where you got the mis-placed information which was definitely incorrect. 

[robert.prior1985 97]

1 hour ago, Waxberry said:

The batch size will increase (quite rapidly) and we aim to deliver to everyone under batch 3.

The reason of starting from smaller but gradually to much bigger production batch is purely on manufacturing perspective. 

As we are all aware of this product is much more complicated in production than almost any of the general smartphones nowadays. We have encountered about twice of the procedures than producing a normal phone.

In general each production step/procedure has a successful rate. Before the production we could only estimate the rate and do the work carefully in order to minimise the waste/loss during some process. For example, the process of removing the light leak from edge of screen (happens 100% with another phone model using the same display module) has a certain successful rate. 

In order to control the successful rate and to save the material, the best way is to improve gradually with all the processes and not putting everything together at once. For example, we start with X amount of production and we get (X - Y) units that can be shipped. With the experience we learned during this process, we can then do 2X amount of production and we can ship (2X - Z) units, where Z < 2Y

Now we have passed the X and will finish the 2X this week. And we will speed up more and more.

@Waxberry I can smash out XL Sheets, however, Algebra confuses me. I am taking this post as.. 'Your phone should be with you within the first two weeks of December' and I am completely here for it. (Obviously I am in London so if you happen to have a few handsets in your office I am more than happy to jump on my bike and pick it up (Save you the aggravation of UPS and all) Lol. 

On a serious note I would! 

Reality is I am happy to wait and am literally overly excited about all of this. 🙂

I AM A GEEK I KNOW!

[ksal95 227]

21 minutes ago, robert.prior1985 said:

@Waxberry(Obviously I am in London so if you happen to have a few handsets in your office I am more than happy to jump on my bike and pick it up (Save you the aggravation of UPS and all) Lol. 

On a serious note I would! 

🙂

That'd be awesome if they let you!

[EskeRahn 5,350]

56 minutes ago, Waxberry said:

Also let me clear that when we took payment on the beginning of August we intended to dispatch by September. I didn't know where you got the mis-placed information which was definitely incorrect. 

In all fairness it should be said that when we made the pre-orders back in the spring, a text on the pre-order page said that payment would only be requested 2-3 weeks before shipping. BUT this was clearly changed BEFORE we were requested to pay, with the ETA of september. But of course in theory some might have paid remembering the original text only...

[robert.prior1985 97]

11 minutes ago, ksal95 said:

That'd be awesome if they let you!

Lets make this happen!!!! Lol!

Ugh I am so seriously in need of this bad boy of a phone! The un-boxing video and images are killing me!

I will not lie #GreenWithEnvy 

[EskeRahn 5,350]

2 minutes ago, robert.prior1985 said:

I will not lie #GreenWithEnvy 

The Kid counts the days to Christmas. You are luckier, you should have it before Christmas. LOL

[robert.prior1985 97]

2 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

The Kid counts the days to Christmas. You are luckier, you should have it before Christmas. LOL

@EskeRahn Do Not even get me started Mr!!!! you are getting yours by end of play tomorrow! I can not believe it! I bet this is all because all of the Xenophobic UK people who voted Brexit have ruined it for me! (I blame everything on that).

I do expect pics and Videos though and step by step tutorials! Thank you! 🙂 

[ksal95 227]

23 minutes ago, robert.prior1985 said:

Lets make this happen!!!! Lol!

Ugh I am so seriously in need of this bad boy of a phone! The un-boxing video and images are killing me!

I'm sure you'll have it in no time 😁

Meanwhile I get to wait on US customs 🙃

[glumreaper 144]

I would not accuse FXtec of unprofessionalism on their aims, nor what (I hope) they're achieving with the Pro1. But I do think the word applies to the communications which have been vague, incomplete, and some might say dishonest in parts.

[Tim6263 134]

"The batch size will increase (quite rapidly) and we aim to deliver to everyone under batch 3. ... we start with X amount of production and we get (X - Y) units that can be shipped. With the experience we learned during this process, we can then do 2X amount of production and we can ship (2X - Z) units, where Z < 2Y  Now we have passed the X and will finish the 2X this week."

So if Batch 1 = X, & Batch 2 = 2X, then the 2nd batch isn't going to fulfill many general pre-orders coz they'll still be completing IGG orders...  They will barely have time to get Batch 2 through customs & shipping before Christmas; so no chance for Batch 3.

So I won't expect my Pro1 until 2020...

[Shilor 71]

3 hours ago, Waxberry said:

The batch size will increase (quite rapidly) and we aim to deliver to everyone under batch 3.

The reason of starting from smaller but gradually to much bigger production batch is purely on manufacturing perspective. 

As we are all aware of this product is much more complicated in production than almost any of the general smartphones nowadays. We have encountered about twice of the procedures than producing a normal phone.

In general each production step/procedure has a successful rate. Before the production we could only estimate the rate and do the work carefully in order to minimise the waste/loss during some process. For example, the process of removing the light leak from edge of screen (happens 100% with another phone model using the same display module) has a certain successful rate. 

In order to control the successful rate and to save the material, the best way is to improve gradually with all the processes and not putting everything together at once. For example, we start with X amount of production and we get (X - Y) units that can be shipped. With the experience we learned during this process, we can then do 2X amount of production and we can ship (2X - Z) units, where Z < 2Y

Now we have passed the X and will finish the 2X this week. And we will speed up more and more.

As someone who has not much to do with Tech, I was not aware of the reason why you chose to produce and ship only a small batch first.

Just wanted to say thank you for the detailed inside look. 😀

[Shilor 71]

 

1 hour ago, Tim6263 said:

"The batch size will increase (quite rapidly) and we aim to deliver to everyone under batch 3. ... we start with X amount of production and we get (X - Y) units that can be shipped. With the experience we learned during this process, we can then do 2X amount of production and we can ship (2X - Z) units, where Z < 2Y  Now we have passed the X and will finish the 2X this week."

So if Batch 1 = X, & Batch 2 = 2X, then the 2nd batch isn't going to fulfill many general pre-orders coz they'll still be completing IGG orders...  They will barely have time to get Batch 2 through customs & shipping before Christmas; so no chance for Batch 3.

So I won't expect my Pro1 until 2020...

Just read the following quote from Eric 🙂
We will get our phones before christmas.

6 hours ago, Erik said:

Yes and no. Early-December is the time within which we expect all Pro1 pre-orders to have been shipped. As you might know, we want to be in general availability with a stock surplus at least 1 week before Christmas. From now, until all orders are complete by early-December, our customers will still receive their stock assigned and dispatch notices as soon as units are produced and are on their way to the logistics warehouses.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Shilor
spelling

[EskeRahn 5,350]

8 minutes ago, Tim6263 said:

So if Batch 1 = X, & Batch 2 = 2X, then the 2nd batch isn't going to fulfill many general pre-orders coz they'll still be completing IGG orders...  They will barely have time to get Batch 2 through customs & shipping before Christmas; so no chance for Batch 3.

I do not know any more details than you, but you seem to be assuming things being serial and not parallel. Why?? It would seem HIGHLY unlikely that they did not start producing batch 2 shortly after batch 1 was finished from the factory (not first after sent to consumer). And similar I would expect batch 3 to start shortly after batch 2 is produced.

They have previously told us that they chose this factory for their ability to scale rapidly, so for all we know batches could follow in increasing size and quick succession.

[netman 1,424]

2 hours ago, gfragkistas said:

I am surprised at the level of unprofessionalism. I sent an inquiry asking for a delivery estimate of my number 83xx order. I got a generic reply that I will get the unit before Christmas!! When I challenged this I got a lengthy totaly silly incomprehensible description of how things work(according to them). The long and short of this is that they have no idea about how much and when they produce, they have no idea about when and how many they will ship.

Pre-order any other phone and ask for a delivery date weeks ahead of time... They will either tell a vague estimate such as "before christmas", or they are very much making a gamble. It's quite normal not to have an exact idea of the yields the first production runs will have (it's simply fact of life not all phones produced will pass QA tests) so the exact size of batches may not be known, or the exact time when they are ready (depending on whether they aim for a date or a number of phones). And logistics companies are not the most dependable things in the world either. Would you rather be given a guess that turns out wrong? Some processes are simply inherently impossible to predict exactly, for example if you have a roofing contractor work on your home they can only proceed when it is not raining.

If you take a look at others doing the same, starting companies that are manufacturing a phone from the ground up (and even big guys like Samsung), you will also see it is almost never without hiccups and Hofstadters Law applies to their original target date. The only reason it is different when you buy a phone as a straightforward order is that there is a buffer of ready made stock to back up any hiccups in production and logistics.