On the pre-production status

[silversolver 849]

I really don't care to hear from smug people who managed to use the lawyer-muscling of retail partners to cut in line.

[silversolver 849]

44 minutes ago, silversolver said:

I really don't care to hear from smug people who managed to use the lawyer-muscling of retail partners to cut in line.

Let me clarify my feelings on this: not only is it rude to cut in line, but it is incredibly shortsighted. This is a very special device, and we are its enthusiasts--the Guardians of the Clack, so to speak. If we do not do what is necessary to make this device a success, and it fails, the odds are good that no one will attempt it again.

While it is annoying that some retailers got their devices ahead of us, the wise response would have been to leave those devices for non-enthusiasts, shopping for their next impulse buy phone, who then could come to love the Clack, and become enthusiasts, thereby broadening the customer base for the keyboard phone. Taking those phones for a few of ourselves who just refused to wait a few more weeks to get our Clacks not only takes badly-needed (I assume) capital away from F(x)tec, but also takes away an opportunity for a member of the general public who happened to be shopping that retailer to become a Clack lover.

In brief, a few people here were willing to hurt the company in the long term to get their devices a few weeks sooner. I find that appalling, and would appreciate it if those of you did so would stop rubbing our noses in it.

Edited January 5, 2020 by silversolver
typo

[Craig 1,435]

It's not the end users fault fxtec sold to retailers first.  The end user did nothing wrong by buying from retailer.  Once fxtec sold them to retailers, you think everyone should have boycotted those retailers?  Those retailers did nothing wrong either.  Anyone who cancelled a preorder to buy from a retailer only hurt fxtec, cuz fxtec presumably sold the retailers at some discount. 

[VaZso 1,988]

16 minutes ago, Craig said:

It's not the end users fault fxtec sold to retailers first.  The end user did nothing wrong by buying from retailer.  Once fxtec sold them to retailers, you think everyone should have boycotted those retailers?  Those retailers did nothing wrong either.  Anyone who cancelled a preorder to buy from a retailer only hurt fxtec, cuz fxtec presumably sold the retailers at some discount. 

Additionally, it seems retailers have also received a very few amount of Pro1 phones and maybe much fewer than what they wanted.

I am sure they will have additional stock after other orders are fulfilled here and that will be the time when generally anybody will be able to buy it.
It also allows some more time of polishing the firmware anyway.

Also, I think canceling a pre-order because a few phones have appeared at retailers is not a really good decision anyway.

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by VaZso

[Rob. S. 1,616]

3 hours ago, silversolver said:

Let me clarify my feelings on this: not only is it rude to cut in line, but it is incredibly shortsighted. This is a very special device, and we are its enthusiasts--the Guardians of the Clack, so to speak. If we do not do what is necessary to make this device a success, and it fails, the odds are good that no one will attempt it again.

While it is annoying that some retailers got their devices ahead of us, the wise response would have been to leave those devices for non-enthusiasts, shopping for their next impulse buy phone, who then could come to love the Clack, and become enthusiasts, thereby broadening the customer base for the keyboard phone. Taking those phones for a few of ourselves who just refused to wait a few more weeks to get our Clacks not only takes badly-needed (I assume) capital away from F(x)tec, but also takes away an opportunity for a member of the general public who happened to be shopping that retailer to become a Clack lover.

In brief, a few people here were willing to hurt the company in the long term to get their devices a few weeks sooner. I find that appalling, and would appreciate it if those of you did so would stop rubbing our noses in it.

What you write is, mostly, technically correct, but you're largely overrating this. In the light of the total of pre-orders, even if that would have been only a few thousand, a couple of dozen devices shipped to three small retailers already wasn't a big deal in the first place, and three or four of them being bought by pre-orderers to accelerate delivery won't drive F(x)tec into bankruptcy, either.

Those few small retailers are not, by the way, shops that cater to the "general public", with their product range they explicitly cater to "enthusiasts". Which is why F(x)tec served them before Christmas in the first place. (Not that I'd feel comfortable with the notion of us pre-orderers being the legion of the last keyboard-phone saving superheroes or something.)

I generally agree to the ethics of your judgement, because this is an exceptional case with a small company trying something that might serve us "enthusiasts" longer than just for this one phone if everything works out, which is also the reason why I insist on pleading not guilty in the case of F(x)tec supplying those retailers before all pre-orders were served. 

But on the other hand I hold absolutely no grudge against anyone who feels they're entitled to make use of a completely legal option to shorten their wait a bit, which has long since become far too long by any conceivable standard. None of those who pre-ordered their phones and now took that shortcut had a contract with anyone else in the line, just with F(x)tec, and F(x)tec failed that contract already on several accounts. Those cases do not justify demanding from people to be holier than their neighbor.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Rob. S.

[silversolver 849]

5 hours ago, Craig said:

Anyone who cancelled a preorder to buy from a retailer only hurt fxtec, cuz fxtec presumably sold the retailers at some discount. 

My point exactly. Is that how we ensure that this phone has a future? It's not boycotting the retailer to leave the devices they have for non-enthusiasts. @Rob. S. Sometimes things that we can legally do are still not wise.

Edited January 6, 2020 by silversolver
Continued thought

[silversolver 849]

5 hours ago, VaZso said:

Additionally, it seems retailers have also received a very few amount of Pro1 phones and maybe much fewer than what they wanted.

I am sure they will have additional stock after other orders are fulfilled here and that will be the time when generally anybody will be able to buy it.
It also allows some more time of polishing the firmware anyway.

Also, I think canceling a pre-order because a few phones have appeared at retailers is not a really good decision anyway.

 

It sounds like you're agreeing with me, especially your last sentence. We need to wait for our pre-orders to be fulfilled, and leave the retail devices, however annoying it is that they even exist before all pre-orders are fulfilled, for the general public.

[VaZso 1,988]

1 hour ago, silversolver said:

It sounds like you're agreeing with me, especially your last sentence. We need to wait for our pre-orders to be fulfilled, and leave the retail devices, however annoying it is that they even exist before all pre-orders are fulfilled, for the general public.

Yes, basically I am agree with you.
However, I have bought a Pro1 from a reseller despite of I am still waiting for my pre-order and having IGG coupon here.

I was thinking for a while that I will buy another one mostly because I will  not do experiments on my daily driver and I would like to try Sailfish OS and maybe do experiments with rooting or recovery solutions later. However, I wanted to wait for general availability and see maybe if an unshifted QWERTY version will be available... but as I heard no news about my pre-order and I wanted to move to this phone while I have some time to work with it, I have decided on that purchase just when I saw an available stock of QWERTZ devices (however, I have waited some hours before I took my purchase and it was still there).

So, I will not cancel my pre-order. I would like to also use that device for some testing and having another device as spare may not be a wrong decision and this way F(x)tec will not loose money - this is also some kind of support I think.

I only use this device as a daily driver since one / two days now and I have already done most of the settings I wanted to do. The most important thing yet to do is currently a modified keyboard layout for my own.

Anyway, I wrote this message completely on my Pro1.

[silversolver 849]

Certainly no one can criticize someone who supports the project so much they bought two, by whatever means. I like your idea of having one to use, and one to use as a test bed for development. I have entertained the idea of doing the same thing. I would imagine your second device will arrive soon.

You are definitely not the (type of) person to whom my grumpy-old-man sounding rant was directed. I know for a fact that a number of people did in fact buy through resellers and cancel their pre-orders, and it was with those people in particular that I was perturbed. We really need the Clack to be a resounding FINANCIAL success, not just a great device, so that its makers have a future in the marketplace with this and hopefully other devices.

In other news, it's good to hear that after only 2 days you have the phone the way you like it and pleasing you. I have a feeling I'll dislike Pie, being used to rather older versions of Android, but it seems that most of the things I'll dislike most can be changed.

Edited January 6, 2020 by silversolver
Autoincorrected again

[Bruce Wayne 65]

On 1/5/2020 at 4:10 AM, VaZso said:

It works - at least currently I am using a similar adapter (a cheaper one bought at Aliexpress).

Please provide link bro.

 

Have anyone received shipping status.

I hope Fx Teams holidays are over now.

 

[vlycop 38]

2 minutes ago, Bruce Wayne said:

Please provide link

https://m.fr.aliexpress.com/item/33002215990.html

[Bruce Wayne 65]

1 minute ago, vlycop said:

https://m.fr.aliexpress.com/item/33002215990.html

Thanks

[netman 1,424]

3 hours ago, silversolver said:

I have a feeling I'll dislike Pie, being used to rather older versions of Android, but it seems that most of the things I'll dislike most can be changed.

If you are willing to tinker a bit running an android 10 GSI works rather well except for some keyboard related bugs (it considers keyboard always open, backlight does not turn on, no fxtec magic to force landscape mode).

[edit] I should read proper, didn't realize you mentioned coming from OLDER versions of android. Yeah, you will dislike Pie, and 10, as I also do xD.

Edited January 6, 2020 by netman
trim the quote

[VaZso 1,988]

4 hours ago, Bruce Wayne said:

Please provide link bro.

I see @vlycop has already gave you a link, but here it is: link

I have just ordered also this one. 

Edited January 6, 2020 by VaZso

[bundyo 32]

On 1/4/2020 at 1:01 AM, rpimonitrbtch said:

QWERTY, US, with coupon, Order# 12xxx, also still nothing.

QWERTY, EU, with coupon, order# 51xx, still Processing.

Edited January 6, 2020 by bundyo
I'm an idiot - wrote US instead of EU.

[rinrailin 4]

QWERTY, EU, with IGG coupon, order # 9xxx, paid Aug 1. also still nothing =(

[Bruce Wayne 65]

As usual they again delay and shipping a small batch this week message.

 

[Raksura 270]

1 hour ago, Bruce Wayne said:

As usual they again delay and shipping a small batch this week message.

What is the delay here? Tracking numbers for the small batch have been sent. The large one is only due this week, and we are still on the very first day.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Raksura

[shani 14]

On 12/17/2019 at 10:25 AM, A Dude said:

not to be mean or anything - but seriously - if you are THAT short on money, you really should not waste it on an expensive phone. There is NOTHING a 200€ phone + 30€ BT-keyboard cannot do what the pro1 could. The only difference is convenience.

Really - using a credit to buy a phone is a very bad decision. You should ask for a refund, no matter the delivery time!

 

You do realize people's situations can change over time?
When I pre-ordered in early 2019, my financial situation was different from when they asked us to pay in August. And I would've cancelled my order if my friend hadn't offered to lend me the money. And even now my situation is different from back in August.

That said: I'd rather cut back on other things than not have a slider keyboard phone. I've been waiting for this for a decade. I imported and used outdated US phones in the past because touchscreen keyboards are a nightmare (for any kind of purpose). I used the Galaxy S4 with a BT keyboard case until the case fell apart. Bought another case, same thing happened (cheap accessory). Now they don't even sell those cases no more. I went back to the Droid 4 and the Photon Q. I tried the Blackberry Priv (nope). I even tried the Cosmo Gemini PDA in 2018 but that thing is simply not usable like a keyboard slider would.
About a year ago I was so desperate that I even made a DIY project by buying a BT qwerty case for iphones, then cutting off the plastic to stick a Samsung S7 (the most recent phone that would roughly fit the size) onto it. But even that wasn't a viable long-term solution for multiple reasons.

And don't be ridiculous. An external BT keyboard is not remotely the same. Where in your pants would you stash that keyboard? And how would you possibly type on it blindly while out on the go? Humans have only two arms. With 4 hands it would maybe be possible, but still be inconvenient.

But it's not even really about convenience. It's simply not viable as a device you rely on daily (otherwise I wouldn't have gave in and replaced it with a keyboardless phone, which is still a nightmare to me). You can't just quickly pull out a phone and BT keyboard out of your pockets to write a text.

You obviously haven't tried all kinds of "solutions" like I did, otherwise you'd know that your suggestion is nonsense.

 

On 12/16/2019 at 10:14 PM, Kabbone said:

You are clearly not an engineer. This is a common "problem" of engineers (note: I'm myself one), you always pursue of perfection without accounting costs or other stuff.

And here lies the problem. People don't need perfection. People just need a device they can use daily.

No smartphone in the world is perfect.

Perfection isn't even achievable, it's an ideal to strive for, not something you can actually accomplish. So delaying production out of perfectionism like this is pointless. And the light leak isn't even noticeable. So far I can't even find it (and mine is supposed to have the issue).

On 12/16/2019 at 10:08 PM, Zamasu said:

Speak for yourself, I wanted a premium phone. One that's worth 650€. The keyboard alone does not do that.

What's a 'premium' phone? 😂

Even the most expensive phones often have flaws that make them not 'premium'.
That said, I just got my pro1 and build quality is great. Certainly of a higher quality than top phones from Samsung & co.

Yes, you're right, the keyboard is not the best I've ever experienced, that is true. But it's still a hardware keyboard, which makes it better than any other phone out there without one.
What I'm noticing though is that the touchscreen is unresponsive in the outer areas (e.g. the send button in Telegram isn't clickable at all).

And FYI: I specifically got one of the allegedly 'faulty' devices to give feedback to fxtec and I don't even see any light leaks. That's what I was talking about. It's not a real problem.

Edited January 6, 2020 by shani

[silversolver 849]

7 hours ago, shani said:

You do realize people's situations can change over time?
When I pre-ordered in early 2019, my financial situation was different from when they asked us to pay in August. And I would've cancelled my order if my friend hadn't offered to lend me the money. And even now my situation is different from back in August.

That said: I'd rather cut back on other things than not have a slider keyboard phone. I've been waiting for this for a decade. I imported and used outdated US phones in the past because touchscreen keyboards are a nightmare (for any kind of purpose). I used the Galaxy S4 with a BT keyboard case until the case fell apart. Bought another case, same thing happened (cheap accessory). Now they don't even sell those cases no more. I went back to the Droid 4 and the Photon Q. I tried the Blackberry Priv (nope). I even tried the Cosmo Gemini PDA in 2018 but that thing is simply not usable like a keyboard slider would.
About a year ago I was so desperate that I even made a DIY project by buying a BT qwerty case for iphones, then cutting off the plastic to stick a Samsung S7 (the most recent phone that would roughly fit the size) onto it. But even that wasn't a viable long-term solution for multiple reasons.

And don't be ridiculous. An external BT keyboard is not remotely the same. Where in your pants would you stash that keyboard? And how would you possibly type on it blindly while out on the go? Humans have only two arms. With 4 hands it would maybe be possible, but still be inconvenient.

But it's not even really about convenience. It's simply not viable as a device you rely on daily (otherwise I wouldn't have gave in and replaced it with a keyboardless phone, which is still a nightmare to me). You can't just quickly pull out a phone and BT keyboard out of your pockets to write a text.

You obviously haven't tried all kinds of "solutions" like I did, otherwise you'd know that your suggestion is nonsense.

 

And here lies the problem. People don't need perfection. People just need a device they can use daily.

No smartphone in the world is perfect.

Perfection isn't even achievable, it's an ideal to strive for, not something you can actually accomplish. So delaying production out of perfectionism like this is pointless. And the light leak isn't even noticeable. So far I can't even find it (and mine is supposed to have the issue).

What's a 'premium' phone? 😂

Even the most expensive phones often have flaws that make them not 'premium'.
That said, I just got my pro1 and build quality is great. Certainly of a higher quality than top phones from Samsung & co.

Yes, you're right, the keyboard is not the best I've ever experienced, that is true. But it's still a hardware keyboard, which makes it better than any other phone out there without one.
What I'm noticing though is that the touchscreen is unresponsive in the outer areas (e.g. the send button in Telegram isn't clickable at all).

And FYI: I specifically got one of the allegedly 'faulty' devices to give feedback to fxtec and I don't even see any light leaks. That's what I was talking about. It's not a real problem.

Bluetooth keyboards are THIS:

 

[Bruce Wayne 65]

7 hours ago, Raksura said:

What is the delay here? Tracking numbers for the small batch have been sent. The large one is only due this week, and we are still on the very first day.

My current phone is damaged, and in current situation I cannot waste my money to order new one while your playing delay games. I can understand the problems Fx team is facing. But from last 4month I'm using broken phone. I request Fx Teams if possible please send me the device. First they said before Christmas, then again end of December, then 1st week of Jan now again End of Jan. This thing I'm facing from September. Now I'm going on leave from 20 Jan. Fx tec promised they will deliver before 20Jan. now agin i received mail stating the deliver is will be end of January. If it arrives after 20 Jan No one will here at my home to receive package.

I really don't know what is going on.

[Raksura 270]

40 minutes ago, Bruce Wayne said:

My current phone is damaged, and in current situation I cannot waste my money to order new one while your playing delay games. I can understand the problems Fx team is facing. But from last 4month I'm using broken phone. I request Fx Teams if possible please send me the device. First they said before Christmas, then again end of December, then 1st week of Jan now again End of Jan. This thing I'm facing from September. Now I'm going on leave from 20 Jan. Fx tec promised they will deliver before 20Jan. now agin i received mail stating the deliver is will be end of January. If it arrives after 20 Jan No one will here at my home to receive package.

I really don't know what is going on.

I am not disputing the other delays you mentioned, but the two last deadlines are still relevant, I believe. From what I understand, the "first (full) week on January" is for the large batch that is intended to cover 30% of the remaining pre-orders, and the "End of January" deadline is for the entirety of all remaining pre-orders.

Considering how things have gone so far, I would very strongly recommend taking actions to ensure things go smoothly even if they have to delay again. Could you not change your shipping address to that of someone who would be able to forward your phone to wherever you currently are?

[Bruce Wayne 65]

19 minutes ago, Raksura said:

I am not disputing the other delays you mentioned, but the two last deadlines are still relevant, I believe. From what I understand, the "first (full) week on January" is for the large batch that is intended to cover 30% of the remaining pre-orders, and the "End of January" deadline is for the entirety of all remaining pre-orders.

Considering how things have gone so far, I would very strongly recommend taking actions to ensure things go smoothly even if they have to delay again. Could you not change your shipping address to that of someone who would be able to forward your phone to wherever you currently are?

Changing address will not help, But device is useless for me if I dont have before I go on holidays.

[Maplesteel 97]

On 1/3/2020 at 3:19 AM, Bruce Wayne said:

Whatever but they given preference to retailers than the preorders

Semi-OT but for whatever reason, this message is the last one I got email notifications about. I had to visit this threat and re-subscribe for email notifications. Thought it had gone rather quiet around here...

[ttodd 23]

2 hours ago, Raksura said:

 the "End of January" deadline is for the entirety of all remaining pre-orders.

https://www.travelchinaguide.com/essential/holidays/new-year/dates.htm
"The Chinese New Year of 2020 falls on January 25th (Saturday), and the festival will last to February 8th, about 15 days in total. 2020 is a Year of the Rat according to Chinese zodiac. As an official public holiday, Chinese people can get seven days' absence from work, from January 24th to 30th."