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Erik

On the production status and delivery

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3 minutes ago, Tim6263 said:

[...]  The one nagging doubt I have is their continued message that subsequent batches will be a lot larger than the first.  Given that Liangchen stated: [transcription, 2nd update video, https://vimeo.com/369691049]:
“so average one workforce probably takes up to 4 to 5 hours to assemble a full device”
Also that it took over a month (sometime in September through to the end of October) to produce the first small batch, why should it take only a few weeks to produce & ship a much larger batch in mid-November?  It seems more reasonable to suppose monthly shipments of a similar size to the first; which in turn means pre-orders are unlikely to be completed until some time in the New Year.  I acknowledge that that’s conjecture, and it would be nice to be proved wrong.  Only time will tell, so for now I will wait and see.

I do not recall the exact comment, but at some point they said that an important factor in choosing the factory they did, was its ability to quickly change scale. So could be that there are a lot more people doing batch two than batch one. I mean they are highly unlikely to have had any machines particularly created for the Pro1, so if a company with a lot of programmable machines are in play, they can quickly scale up, after F(x)tec have seen with batch one that they can produce the product to the required specs and quality demands, they can do a large batch 2.

 

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10 minutes ago, david said:

Skipping the Pro2 and waiting for the Pro3 is risky, because if no Pro3 is produced, then it is too late to get a Pro2 possibly (assuming they sell out of them).  Same goes for waiting for the Pro2 and not buying a Pro1 now.

This much depends on how the Pro1 is received in a market. If it is seen at an odd thing for the few, you are right, but if they manage to wheel in a substantial number of touch users, it might be a revival of the form factor. We will all now in half a year or so...

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3 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

I do not recall the exact comment, but at some point they said that an important factor in choosing the factory they did, was its ability to quickly change scale. So could be that there are a lot more people doing batch two than batch one. I mean they are highly unlikely to have had any machines particularly created for the Pro1, so if a company with a lot of programmable machines are in play, they can quickly scale up, after F(x)tec have seen with batch one that they can produce the product to the required specs and quality demands, they can do a large batch 2.

 

And maybe there were adjustments to the assembly process for the first batch and that made it take longer.  I'm just happy that I'll get one of the batch 2 phones that doesn't have all the mistakes of the batch 1 phones, where they were learning how to put them together for the first time.  😂

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2 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

This much depends on how the Pro1 is received in a market. If it is seen at an odd thing for the few, you are right, but if they manage to wheel in a substantial number of touch users, it might be a revival of the form factor. We will all now in half a year or so...

...odd as it may seem, if this shows to NOT be a success, I'm likely to buy a couple for spares. But if it is a huge success, I'm likely to settle for two, and then hope for a Pro2/3/4....

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3 minutes ago, david said:

And maybe there were adjustments to the assembly process for the first batch and that made it take longer.  I'm just happy that I'll get one of the batch 2 phones that doesn't have all the mistakes of the batch 1 phones, where they were learning how to put them together for the first time.  😂

Good point, all of us with a batch one device, should order a batch 3 device and compare... 😜😇

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35 minutes ago, Tim6263 said:


What I hope I have set out is detailed & logical enough to make sense; yet also shows how a relatively small London start-up is both employing and managing global resources, for our benefit, yet on a limited budget.  It ought also show that with the number of different actors taking part in the play – who are not in the direct employ of F(x)tec – it is perhaps more understandable how F(x)tec struggle to put an accurate and timely date on production and shipping much of the time. [...]

Thanks for the detailed thoughts there. I think you're right.

Where they've fallen down isn't in what they're trying to achieve, or how, but simply in how they communicate about it.

If someone at FXtec had written what you just set out, ending it with "sorry, this is why it's taking a while, please bear with us", I'd feel happier.

I can't believe they're so naive as to not realise that when they sent out a big official notice to all customers, saying "we're starting to ship on 29/10" that they didn't realise customers would begin to expect their devices early in November. They could've easily clarified the different phases of shipping, and what percentage of orders would be fulfilled (to the customer) within what periods. Even if those were guesses that ended up having to be revised, just say so and explain why!

Edited by glumreaper
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33 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

...odd as it may seem, if this shows to NOT be a success, I'm likely to buy a couple for spares. But if it is a huge success, I'm likely to settle for two, and then hope for a Pro2/3/4....

Yes, that's my thinking as well.  Those of us who want to have keyboard phones for some time into the future will buy more of them if they are less successful and fewer if they are more successful.  I'm not sure how we'll know if they are successful though.  The main way to know might be if they bring out another revision of the phone, but by the time they do that, the previous revision might be sold out.  I guess a person can buy extras and then sell them if a new one is announced, but people will be less likely to buy the old version once a new one is announced.  LOL

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1 hour ago, EskeRahn said:

...odd as it may seem, if this shows to NOT be a success, I'm likely to buy a couple for spares. But if it is a huge success, I'm likely to settle for two, and then hope for a Pro2/3/4....

I have the exact same thoughts regarding this and I also even hope to be a huge success.
Also, how high the success is may be found when (and if) they start selling Pro2.

If people see Pro1 (also those who did not bought it) and they find its quality good and hearing good opinions of their users, then they may also buy the successor and can be braver to buy it than any preorderers of Pro1. 🙂

I don't think other manufacturers are starting to produce similar hardware by that time, that may be more risky if we are speaking about Pro3.
Otherwise, if they can build up a good reputation since then, they could be something like the new No*ia wih their appropriate fans, so if they do well, a long-term business can be also built up by them.

I wish them to do that while they are close (closer than now) to their community.

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2 hours ago, VaZso said:

I wish them to do that while they are close (closer than now) to their community.

That would be nice. 

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I just hope for great reviews when the product is finally received by original backers. Anything less will be a major setback.

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Just as a quick BTW regarding specs:

I currently own a Oneplus 3T - Snapdragon 821. I'm running it on LineageOS since day one - it's (as of today) BLAZINGLY fast!

There is no input lag whatsoever, everything is just super-smooth (and I have the 'performance' setting one tick towards 'save envergy' from the center position).

As long as you are not using performance demanding games (that's what PCs are for), this thing could still last for years without problems! (Stuff like GTA does run super-smooth as well - but that is all I ever tried in terms of 'mobile gaming').

Pro1's 835 is ~30% faster compared to the 821, if I read the benchmarks correctly. So there should be more than ample power in this device to actually run everything you need for maybe even the next decade.

Only RAM is where in like 5..10years from now a problem could arise, but probably not on CPU-performance (look at PCs right now - a 10yrs old PC with a GTX 2080ti is still top-notch for gaming today, if it was not too shabby back then - we hit a plateau on that tech, and now we're plateau-ing with cell phones right now. All you can get as 'an upgrade' on your next phone is 12 Cameras running a combined 42 Gigapixels - but that's about that ;)).

Yet, I might stand corrected - is anyone here owning a device with a Snapdragon 8{4,5,6}5 who thinks that his/her old 835/825 device was too slow?

 

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4 minutes ago, A Dude said:

Just as a quick BTW regarding specs:

I currently own a Oneplus 3T - Snapdragon 821. I'm running it on LineageOS since day one - it's (as of today) BLAZINGLY fast!

There is no input lag whatsoever, everything is just super-smooth (and I have the 'performance' setting one tick towards 'save envergy' from the center position).

As long as you are not using performance demanding games (that's what PCs are for), this thing could still last for years without problems! (Stuff like GTA does run super-smooth as well - but that is all I ever tried in terms of 'mobile gaming').

Pro1's 835 is ~30% faster compared to the 821, if I read the benchmarks correctly. So there should be more than ample power in this device to actually run everything you need for maybe even the next decade.

Only RAM is where in like 5..10years from now a problem could arise, but probably not on CPU-performance (look at PCs right now - a 10yrs old PC with a GTX 2080ti is still top-notch for gaming today, if it was not too shabby back then - we hit a plateau on that tech, and now we're plateau-ing with cell phones right now. All you can get as 'an upgrade' on your next phone is 12 Cameras running a combined 42 Gigapixels - but that's about that ;)).

Yet, I might stand corrected - is anyone here owning a device with a Snapdragon 8{4,5,6}5 who thinks that his/her old 835/825 device was too slow?

 

I have an 835 right now in my Pixel 2 XL and have not had any issues regarding the speed or in mobile games

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The software plays a big role here too. In the past I've had a HTC Wizard, which was then replaced by Toshiba G900. Although the Toshiba had better specs, using it was a total disaster comparing to the old HTC - constant battery management issues (sudden drops from 100 to 75%, shutting down at 30%, refreshing battery state every 5% systemwise) and low priority for keyboard-managing process were a nightmare. The software was constantly losing every 4-5 characters typed on the physical keyboard (software keyboard worked fine!), even with all the tweaks people could find console this. This taught me, that software optimization may have huge impact on the total experience and even the best hardware with bad software can be rubbish.

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A lot of people don't realise the CPU is pretty irrelevant these days (like mentioned above) as it's got to the point where each new CPU doesn't double/triple the performance.

 

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19 minutes ago, _DW_ said:

A lot of people don't realise the CPU is pretty irrelevant these days (like mentioned above) as it's got to the point where each new CPU doesn't double/triple the performance.

 

I agree with you.  That said, Pro1 would have sold more units with the latest chip based on comments I read on the F(x) tec FB page as well as comments on the various YouTube videos of reviews with early production versions of the Pro1.  

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Just now, Siani_8 said:

I agree with you.  That said, Pro1 would have sold more units with the latest chip based on comments I read on the F(x) tec FB page as well as comments on the various YouTube videos of reviews with early production versions of the Pro1.  

Because they are idiots 😄 

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1 hour ago, _DW_ said:

A lot of people don't realise the CPU is pretty irrelevant these days (like mentioned above) as it's got to the point where each new CPU doesn't double/triple the performance.

I think flash speed can be more impact on the overall speed if it is relatively slow.
(Anyway, they said it is connected on UFS interface so it is not eMMC which sounds good anyway, so I hope it is relatively fast.)

Also software optimizations may have high impact on overall performance.

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18 minutes ago, VaZso said:

I think flash speed can be more impact on the overall speed if it is relatively slow.
(Anyway, they said it is connected on UFS interface so it is not eMMC which sounds good anyway, so I hope it is relatively fast.)

Also software optimizations may have high impact on overall performance.

Hopefully 3 but any is better than eMMC it's so slow!

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For those not watching Twitter, Liangchen Chen just tweeted: "Confirmed first shipment is on the way to US / UK warehouse and takes 1-2 working days to handle forward shipping and custom. (They don't work over weekend) aiming to get tracking code sent out early next week. Getting there "

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1 minute ago, Jim Chapman said:

For those not watching Twitter, Liangchen Chen just tweeted: "Confirmed first shipment is on the way to US / UK warehouse and takes 1-2 working days to handle forward shipping and custom. (They don't work over weekend) aiming to get tracking code sent out early next week. Getting there "

Thanks for sharing. So if they truly shipped on the 29th, it's taking around 10 business days to get to tracking number stage. So if it's the same for the second batch and they ship in mid-November, tracking numbers would probably go out in early December, to hopefully arrive by Christmas. I'm not seeing how further batches could reach by Christmas at this rate though. 

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3 minutes ago, _DW_ said:

Hopefully 3 but any is better than eMMC it's so slow!

eMMC also has some versions (just like UFS anyway), so it can be relatively fast, but UFS interface is definitively better. 🙂

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Just now, cboehm91 said:

Thanks for sharing. So if they truly shipped on the 29th, it's taking around 10 business days to get to tracking number stage. So if it's the same for the second batch and they ship in mid-November, tracking numbers would probably go out in early December, to hopefully arrive by Christmas. I'm not seeing how further batches could reach by Christmas at this rate though. 

Maybe second batch can be faster if that is true that customs can be much slower on the first run of a new device.

However, expecting 10 days and experiencing 5 for example is much better than expecting 5 days and experiencing 10. 🙂

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4 minutes ago, Jim Chapman said:

For those not watching Twitter, Liangchen Chen just tweeted: "Confirmed first shipment is on the way to US / UK warehouse and takes 1-2 working days to handle forward shipping and custom. (They don't work over weekend) aiming to get tracking code sent out early next week. Getting there "

Lol.  It's the same information tweeted on Nov 6th except he has added the word "confirmed."  It's still progress.  In what they are managing right now, with so much in the control of third parties, confirmation is key (along with function 😉 ).  I predicted we wouldn't see tracking numbers before next Monday. Fingers crossed the "early" part is right.

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