On the pre-production status

[EskeRahn 5,471]

7 hours ago, netman said:

This should end this thread :D. As Kintaro Hattori said: "don't hurry, don't stop".

Well at the least all the whining seems (almost) limited to this thread, so it is better than having it cluttering all over other threads (IMHO)

[A Dude 99]

I am always a little bewildered by how 'emotional' some people are, especially regarding a buying decision pertaining a cell phone. I mean, it's just a phone. If the amount of money that I "invest" into a phone is anything but negligible, I made a wrong decision in the first place!

(read: if your "business success" depends on a cell phone, I might question the business case :D)

Sure, I get the hype about finally having a cell with an actual keyboard again. Trust me - I want it just as much as the other guy, but honestly: It's just a phone and if I have to be honest to myself: 95%+ a Jobs Slab is all about I need. Most of my "unlocks" are to read an incoming message, check the whether, etc.pp..

Less than 5% I actually need to type stuff (OTOH I would not dare to try to logon to my systems via passphrase using an onscreen-keyboard - so there will be an old use-case re-added as soon as I receive this device ;)).

While I do not expect the money for this pre-order to be a write-off, I do not really care about it being 'locked' to this purchase. Given, if your current device is on its edge to give up, you're probably a little more on fingernail biting, but really - one month more or less, does this really matter?

(Gear-lust-related: of course, it does - but if you can distract your self, time will fly and sooner or later you have a (hopefully) nice phone at your doorstep. So relax and smile to your future self ;))

 

 

[Craig 1,435]

5 hours ago, Foop said:

Then why are you still hanging around on the forum? 

Silly question.  If I was someone who'd cancelled, it means I want the phone, I'm just crazy paranoid.  Doesn't mean I dont wanna see if I'm wrong, or how it works out for ppl, and buy later once I'm not worried.

[Doktor Oswaldo 906]

5 minutes ago, A Dude said:

so there will be an old use-case re-added as soon as I receive this device

That is the point. There is a lot of stuff I only do on my phone if it has to be done immediately (like writing mails).
So this device will make my everyday life more efficient again!

[mcdinner 375]

5 minutes ago, Craig said:

Silly question.  If I was someone who'd cancelled, it means I want the phone, I'm just crazy paranoid.  Doesn't mean I dont wanna see if I'm wrong, or how it works out for ppl, and buy later once I'm not worried.

This is a user 2 user forum, so technically no user anymore if canceled.
But you are right, there is no reason not to stay here if you still interested but too scared to wait. In this case those ppl shoud not participate in the conspiration theories and whining here in the thread. 

[Gon009 70]

31 minutes ago, A Dude said:

I am always a little bewildered by how 'emotional' some people are, especially regarding a buying decision pertaining a cell phone. I mean, it's just a phone. If the amount of money that I "invest" into a phone is anything but negligible, I made a wrong decision in the first place!

(read: if your "business success" depends on a cell phone, I might question the business case :D)

Sure, I get the hype about finally having a cell with an actual keyboard again. Trust me - I want it just as much as the other guy, but honestly: It's just a phone and if I have to be honest to myself: 95%+ a Jobs Slab is all about I need. Most of my "unlocks" are to read an incoming message, check the whether, etc.pp..

Less than 5% I actually need to type stuff (OTOH I would not dare to try to logon to my systems via passphrase using an onscreen-keyboard - so there will be an old use-case re-added as soon as I receive this device ;)).

While I do not expect the money for this pre-order to be a write-off, I do not really care about it being 'locked' to this purchase. Given, if your current device is on its edge to give up, you're probably a little more on fingernail biting, but really - one month more or less, does this really matter?

(Gear-lust-related: of course, it does - but if you can distract your self, time will fly and sooner or later you have a (hopefully) nice phone at your doorstep. So relax and smile to your future self ;))

 

 

First, if you treat 650 euros "negligible" then either you have rich parents or you have extremely well paid job, no offense. Pro1 is extremely expensive phone and for most of us the most expensive phone even "bought". There are no alternatives to Pro1 right now so you can't just buy other landscape slider and Pro1 is meant to be long lasting device unlike other android phones like Samsungs. Also, it doesn't mean if it's a phone, a PC, a car or whatever, 650 euros is 650 euros. I guess that less that 1% of people who "bought" Pro1 see 650 euros as "negligible".

Second, as I said already "one month more or less" was already happening for few months and honestly I started thinking that Fxtec knew about the huge needed delay already months ago but they preferred to split into into small one months delays so people think exactly like that, I realized that their early-September promise of mid-September shipping was just impossible and unrealistic because there was no way a phone could be produced and shipped to warehouses in two weeks, including customs. They had to know that they set unrealistic dates and probably did so so people wont' cancel because "it's only month more". So far two weeks from shipping date and no one got their tracking numbers. My current phone was already in bad shape when first delays came, now it's barely usable and it seems that getting the phone in November is impossible because we are now in mid-November still without even first batch.

And also, we still can't be sure that Fxtec won't suddenly say "sorry but there will be no more phones than first batch". Remember that first batch(~120 phones) took them few months to produce. They said that will magically fulfill all current orders to the end of November but so far it seems like BS. Whoever relays info to support to tell us, second batch is supposed to leave factories in mid-November(now) and third batch is about to arrive to customers by the end of November. If you compare them to first batch, third one should be already leaving factories too which is not realistic.  So far it's getting worse and worse and few days ago first batch suddenly was again at customs. Fxtec doesn't try to give us any valid info and all they tell us is vagueness and things that quickly are proven to invalid. Suddenly shipping to warehouses by air takes two weeks, I guess the plane must be circling around airport for days(lol) or they took boxed for a tourist trip around the world.

Fxtec could end all of this now by giving us a feed of HONEST info but they still prefer to ignore their customers. I shouldn't be writing all of this and I do this only because Fxtec is dishonest and disrespectful and they know that they can do things like that because people who want landscape slider have literally no other choice.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Gon009

[netman 1,424]

19 minutes ago, A Dude said:

I am always a little bewildered by how 'emotional' some people are, especially regarding a buying decision pertaining a cell phone. I mean, it's just a phone. If the amount of money that I "invest" into a phone is anything but negligible, I made a wrong decision in the first place!

Hmm the amount of money isn't neglegible to me, but I'm not gonna panic over it, I knew when joining a pre-order there are certain risks but getting the phone as fast as possible outweighs those in this case 😄. I'd be more worried if I didn't have a pre-order.

[VaZso 1,998]

1 hour ago, Gon009 said:

So far it's getting worse and worse and few days ago first batch suddenly was again at customs.

Regardless of when they have shipped these phones or what happened in the background about other potential problems, I would like to mention that customs exists both at sender and recipient countries. So if the package is again at customs potentially means it has left China customs, they traveled to recipient country where is currently at local customs.

So this information seems to be valid as this is the normal process of international shipments.

[Geobueck 0]

 I don't dare to preorder after all the months of delay. I'm afraid of the possibility to pay for a device that will never come. Or at least not this year. 

[rejujacob 77]

14 minutes ago, VaZso said:

Regardless of when they have shipped these phones or what happened in the background about other potential problems, I would like to mention that customs exists both at sender and recipient countries. So if the package is again at customs potentially means it has left China customs, they traveled to recipient country where is currently at local customs.

So this information seems to be valid as this is the normal process of international shipments.

I don't think it has been dispatched to the recipient country, as otherwise they would have provided tracking numbers...

[EskeRahn 5,471]

2 hours ago, netman said:

Hmm the amount of money isn't neglegible to me, but I'm not gonna panic over it, I knew when joining a pre-order there are certain risks but getting the phone as fast as possible outweighs those in this case 😄. I'd be more worried if I didn't have a pre-order.

I think the word "neglegible" he used might be not that well chosen, but his point stands that no one should  depend that much on a particular device.

Let's think of alternatives. For the user that is on a tight budget but still wants/needs a real keyboard, a BT-keyboard  and a simple smartphone is a cheaper alternative. Sure it is by far as convenient to carry around and use - but the functionality is there. So from that perspective what we are buying is the convenience. Thus we are (primarily) talking those willing to spend the extra money on convenience - sure there are those that will get increased productivity, that can make a gain covering the expenses, but I doubt that will be the majority of the user group.

[A Dude 99]

1 hour ago, EskeRahn said:

I think the word "neglegible" he used might be not that well chosen, but his point stands that you should not depend that much on a particular device.

I agree.

3 hours ago, Gon009 said:

First, if you treat 650 euros "negligible" then either you have rich parents or you have extremely well paid job, no offense.

Non taken!

This is very likely super subjective. For me a PC is the most important 'tool'. Therefore I would rate a laptop second and a cell phone third (while priorities decrease quickly). Any money invested into a cell phone would therefore be a 'left-over' from the other two. So if (from my point-of-view ;)) you have a 1k€ phone, you'd better have a 4k€ PC! 😉

What I meant with 'neglegible' was in the domain of 'having that money locked'. I think we can agree, that this money won't be lost. The only thing is, that you cannot use it right now for something else. Therefore if locking <amount of money for a phone> is causing you trouble, you're opting for a device that might be out of budget for you, if you would be honest to yourself and put gear acquisition syndrome aside.

Regarding phone prices, I have a feeling like every 5th person is running around with the current gen iPhone, which is more in the realm of 1k...1,2k€ (besides those Samsung devices which also typically go for 800€+ and with models like the Note also breaching the 1k€ barrier).

So in phone price domain the Pro1 is definitely mid-range -- upper midrange -- granted -- but midrange (I just checked: my Note 1 (successor to my N900, which was 500€ early 2010) in 2012 was 581€ whereas a Note 10+ 5G currently sells on Amazon for 1166€ - which is the second cheapest price after Ebay).

I guess, what I'm saying is, a phone is 50% a luxury item and money for luxury items shouldn't be money you *really need*.

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by A Dude
typo

[VaZso 1,998]

30 minutes ago, rejujacob said:

I don't think it has been dispatched to the recipient country, as otherwise they would have provided tracking numbers...

I mean sending from China to "Fulfillment centres" - I think they are speaking about this process.

So the process is something like this:
- Sending phones to EU/USA - ticked
- Being at outbound Customs in China - ticked
- Left China - ticked
- Arrive in EU/USA - ticked (as far as it seems to be)
- Being at inbound Customs of the country in EU/USA - ticked
- Arriving at destination in EU/USA - unticked (or currently in question)

After arrival of the phones:
- Separate them by final recipients and sending every phones to its final country/address - unticked

So if I understand well, the last process should be completed this week and tracking number will be available then.

[TeZtdevice 303]

2 minutes ago, VaZso said:

So if I understand well, the last process should be completed this week and tracking number will be available then.

100% correct!

[david 929]

2 hours ago, VaZso said:

Regardless of when they have shipped these phones or what happened in the background about other potential problems, I would like to mention that customs exists both at sender and recipient countries. So if the package is again at customs potentially means it has left China customs, they traveled to recipient country where is currently at local customs.

So this information seems to be valid as this is the normal process of international shipments.

What is being referred to is that on Nov 6, a tweet went out that stated the phones were past destination customs and at the destination warehouses and it was just a matter to get them to the shippers and send out tracking codes.  2 days later, another tweet was sent out that stated the phones had not cleared destination customs yet.

[david 929]

1 hour ago, VaZso said:

I mean sending from China to "Fulfillment centres" - I think they are speaking about this process.

So the process is something like this:
- Sending phones to EU/USA - ticked
- Being at outbound Customs in China - ticked
- Left China - ticked
- Arrive in EU/USA - ticked (as far as it seems to be)
- Being at inbound Customs of the country in EU/USA - ticked
- Arriving at destination in EU/USA - unticked (or currently in question)

After arrival of the phones:
- Separate them by final recipients and sending every phones to its final country/address - unticked

So if I understand well, the last process should be completed this week and tracking number will be available then.

The Nov 8 tweet stated that the phone still needed to clear customs in the destination country(ies).  They could have been at the 3rd, 4th or 5th tick above.  It should be an interesting week.

[Doktor Oswaldo 906]

From TMO:

Quote

APAC users will likely get tracking code tomorrow (once final dispatch is made) US/EU user will likely* to receive code on Wednesday

New batch also being built.

*Should happen but not definitely, if not then Thursday

 

[glumreaper 144]

3 hours ago, A Dude said:

 

This is very likely super subjective. For me a PC is the most important 'tool'.  

You're right there. This is very subjective.

 

Personally, my phone has become my de facto primary computing device. (Which makes these delays very annoying as I'm currently using an old phone that I only expected to need up until July.)

My PC is in storage (don't have room since having kids) and while I have a laptop, I don't have all that much opportunity to sit and use it. I do most things I would need it for on my phone. At the moment that means some text-heavy tasks get put off or not done because they're so time-consuming or just annoying to do on a phone. I'm hoping a decent keyboard on my phone will this help me be more efficient in those ways.

The Pro1 will be the most expensive phone I've ever bought. If I don't cancel it. Anyway, that's why it matters to me and why I try and express the frustration I feel on here. I do believe in FXtec - I definitely support the return of keyboard phones - but I don't think it's unfair to say they could do better in some ways.

Edited November 11, 2019 by glumreaper

[glumreaper 144]

1 hour ago, Doktor Oswaldo said:

From TMO:

 

Is the 'new batch' the second, or third, I wonder?

[mcdinner 375]

1 minute ago, glumreaper said:

Is the 'new batch' the second, or third, I wonder?

Lets say the new batch is just the next one !?

[VaZso 1,998]

9 minutes ago, glumreaper said:

Is the 'new batch' the second, or third, I wonder?

I think that is about second batch.

[kashif 350]

32 minutes ago, mcdinner said:

Lets say the new batch is just the next one !?

Lets say the new batch is just the next one that includes me 😝

[AnnieC 115]

What bugs me is that a few hundred or even few thousand phones are a really low number for a properly set up manufacturing process, even if the assembly is mostly done by humans. Nokia back in the day could produce more than five thousand phones with similar complexity and design on a single day on a single manufacturing line with maybe 30-40 people. Of course they first had to have a continuous source of all the parts, create all the tools and processes for mass manufacturing and testing which took a lot of time. But they didn't claim that they were ready for mass manufacturing until they worked out most of the issues which prevented them from creating a few thousand phones a day.

I admire F(x)tec for what they are trying to do but it really seems that they underestimated the work it takes to mass manufacture a new phone from scratch.

Edited November 11, 2019 by AnnieC

[EskeRahn 5,471]

8 minutes ago, AnnieC said:

What bugs me is that a few hundred or even few thousand phones are a really low number for a properly set up manufacturing process, even if the assembly is mostly done by humans. Nokia back in the day could produce more than five thousand phones with similar complexity and design on a single day on a single manufacturing line with maybe 30-40 people. Of course they first had to create all the tools and processes for mass manufacturing and testing which took a lot of time. But they didn't claim that they were ready for mass manufacturing until they worked out most of the issues which prevented them from creating a few thousand phones a day.

I admire F(x)tec for what they are trying to do but it really seems that they underestimated the work it takes to mass manufacture a new phone from scratch.

Though I would love it if the Pro1 would sell in the multi milions like Nokia did in the hay days, I find it highly unlikely. So dedicated tools are hardly in play here, more than perhaps some moulds - but honestly I think it more likely that it is programable machines that cut things than moulds.

[Hook 3,043]

7 minutes ago, AnnieC said:

What bugs me is that a few hundred or even few thousand phones are a really low number for a properly set up manufacturing process, even if the assembly is mostly done by humans. Nokia back in the day could produce more than five thousand phones with similar complexity and design on a single day on a single manufacturing line with maybe 30-40 people. Of course they first had to create all the tools and processes for mass manufacturing and testing which took a lot of time. But they didn't claim that they were ready for mass manufacturing until they worked out most of the issues which prevented them from creating a few thousand phones a day.

I admire F(x)tec for what they are trying to do but it really seems that they underestimated the work it takes to mass manufacture a new phone from scratch.

I think the point is, yes they are not (a properly set up manufacturing process) and yes, they did (underestimate  what was involved in manufacturing).  I think this is a small group of engineers with corporate titles who overestimated how smoothly things would go with third parties for whom they are low priority.  I bet they are way more frustrated than we are. But they are also, thankfully, dedicated to seeing it through.