On the pre-production status

[Polaris 423]

5 hours ago, Tim6263 said:

I'm afraid three months plus now does not look like "short order" they've had plenty of time to 'come clean' with us ... just seems to me like, "It starts to look like very poor management of the whole project...", and ever more reason, sadly, to distrust any dates they proffer - to the point of giving up & seeking a refund.  Much as I truly do Love the concept, I simply cannot afford to throw away £660 😪 

By "short order" I meant f(x)tec got in over their heads very early on and haven't recovered from it yet.  NOT that they were only in deep water for a short time period.

I don't see how you are throwing away £660.  I have personally witnessed a different company manufacture newly designed electronic devices to be shipped worldwide.  I can promise you that everything that has happened with f(x)tec is par for the course!  I agree they should have handled communication better than they have, and it comes across like they are being dishonest.  However, I don't believe there is any dishonesty here; instead, it's more that they were really excited about, and very hopeful for, what they were involved in, and what was about to come.  Combined with not having any prior experience, and the knowledge needed, to understand that this kind of manufacturing (1) never goes as planned, and (2) there are a ton of unforeseen events that will need to play out (many with solutions that will need to be found).  Let's stop and take a look at what is actually happening here...

Essentially two guys decided they were going to bring a new kind of hi-tech gizmo to market with worldwide distribution.  I say new here because there hasn't been a good landscape (keyboard) QWERTY phone since the Droid 4 was released back in 2012.  Additionally the Pro1 is not just a mere copy of Moto's Droids with newer internals.  Everything about it, but the concept itself is new.  Please ruminate on this for a minute (or two, three, or four).  Again, two guys worked diligently to get a smart phone designed that ended up with a new kind of cell phone being produced and made available to the public via worldwide distribution.  This is no simple task!  Think about how daunting it would be if you grabbed one of your buddies and attempted something like what they are doing here!  Do you think you could pull off something like this? 

Then add into the mix that they originally claimed the first phones would be in customer's hands in July 2019.  They didn't meet that date (which I could have told them back in July 2018 (notice the 8 ) that it wasn't going to happen, but, again, I have prior experience, they didn't/don't.  So what actually happened?  Instead of getting the first phones in customer's hands by July of this year, they the first phones in customer's hands in November of the same year.  I can promise you that THIS IS DAMN GOOD for what they undertook!!  To quote a line from one of my wife's favorite movies, "It's six months. It's nothing. It's a hockey season!"

Clearly, this seems like an eternity to those of you who believed, *like f(x)tec themselves did*, you would have your phones back in July.  I also understand that it's very frustrating to be promised something (time and time again) and it not come to fruition.  I can only reiterate that (1) I agree the communication on their end has been poor, and (2) if you speak with anyone knowledgeable about large scale manufacturing of newly designed hi-tech devices they will tell you that, for a first attempt, a six month delay is nothing to worry about because it's common, standard, normal, and will happen no matter how hard one tries to prevent it from occurring.

As I have said before, I really believe the best thing to do is understand what's actually taking place here, then calm down, relax, breathe, and expect the phone to arrive sometime, say 2nd quarter of 2020.  Then be pleasantly surprised if it shows up before then (which I believe it will, but for many it will, most likely be, 1st quarter of 2020 by the time it's actually in your hands).

Edited December 4, 2019 by Polaris
VaZso's comment below inspired a minor edit.

[VaZso 1,998]

30 minutes ago, Polaris said:

Again, two guys have designed, and put into production a new kind of cell phone that will be available to the public via worldwide distribution.  This is no simple task! 

They are definitively more than two guys but yes, they were able to manage the project from scratch. There are really much technical knowledge had to be there to design a phone (including schematics, PCB, antenna system, mechanical parts, outfit design and tune all of them together - the process is much more longer). They also had to prepare manufacturing documentation, organize manufacturing process, had to check how it is going, etc.

Prior to that, they had to do tests, apply for certification (and design the whole thing including PCB and antenna system to pass these tests), etc...
...and the whole process needs a plenty of money. A huge amount of money.

Maybe they are not really good at marketing and they had no prior experience in this process, thus, they were too optimistic on manufacturing / shipping times.

...but they are currently at the finish line and believe it or not, they are definitively passed to hardest part - they could design a phone which seems to be working well and has good quality. Manufacturing has also started and problems can be resolved.

One thing has to be really improved and it is the communication.
However, they may be really tired at this point...

[Polaris 423]

13 minutes ago, VaZso said:

They are definitively more than two guys but yes, they were able to manage the project from scratch.

.

.

One thing has to be really improved and it is the communication.
However, they may be really tired at this point...

Oh right, absolutely!  I meant it was a couple of guys who came up with the idea and started the ball rolling.

Tired isn't a legitimate excuse for poor communication.    Maybe I'll see what I can post to get them started.  After all my (very wise) dad always said if you don't like something, don't just sit around and complain, get up and do something about it.

[david 929]

2 hours ago, Polaris said:

Heat my rump!  It's freezing to me, lol.  I grew up out here and it's usually mid 70s (24 C) right now.  Sometimes it's in the mid 80s (30 C) on Christmas.  That's my kind of weather, none of this can't wear short sleeve shirts stuff that we have now!

Live in Minnesota long enough, and you can wear short sleeves any time of year. 😉

[elvissteinjr 359]

Oh, they are reasonably talkative when everything's fine. Just look at the posts made when the first devices shipped.
This however, also leads me to believe not much is fine right now. Maybe even beyond what we're speculating already.

[Pico 27]

12 hours ago, silversolver said:

I don't think that anyone at F(x)tec has been toying with anyone, but can see where it could feel that way. 

No, I don't think it was ever intentionally toying with anyone, but the roller coaster of fxtec getting excited and saying soon only to come back and more or less say well not that soon a few days later felt that way. 

[Pico 27]

Since we're off topic and talking about the weather. I'd like to thank all of you for being a decent group. For all the frustration and aggravation of the waiting and not knowing everyone seems to be pretty chill. It's nice not seeing name calling and all the other trash that could be here.

[david 929]

12 minutes ago, Pico said:

Since we're off topic and talking about the weather. I'd like to thank all of you for being a decent group. For all the frustration and aggravation of the waiting and not knowing everyone seems to be pretty chill. It's nice not seeing name calling and all the other trash that could be here.

Jerk.

 

 

 

 

 

😉

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Edited December 4, 2019 by david

[JillieBo 16]

36 minutes ago, Pico said:

Since we're off topic and talking about the weather. I'd like to thank all of you for being a decent group. For all the frustration and aggravation of the waiting and not knowing everyone seems to be pretty chill. It's nice not seeing name calling and all the other trash that could be here.

I have to agree! I’ve been thinking the same thing. I never see anyone like....being dicks. Lol You guys rock!

[ksal95 227]

6 minutes ago, JillieBo said:

I have to agree! I’ve been thinking the same thing. I never see anyone like....being dicks. Lol You guys rock!

Alright, who here is named Richard?

Edited December 4, 2019 by ksal95
Asking for a friend

[Tim6263 134]

6 hours ago, Polaris said:

Do you think you could pull off something like this ...

I can promise you that THIS IS DAMN GOOD for what they undertook!!  ...

if you speak with anyone knowledgeable about large scale manufacturing of newly designed hi-tech devices they will tell you that, for a first attempt, a six month delay is nothing to worry about because it's common, standard, normal, 

expect the phone to arrive sometime, say 2nd quarter of 2020. 

Your criticism of me Fails on a number of points

"Do you think" - I'm not the one trying to

"if you speak with anyone..." maybe; but I'm not, should not be expected to.  My order is with F(x), & they are over-promising, & under communicating

UR very good spouting experience & hind-sight which is also unhelpful for most of us ordinary folks 😒🙁 

 

[VaZso 1,998]

5 hours ago, elvissteinjr said:

Oh, they are reasonably talkative when everything's fine. Just look at the posts made when the first devices shipped.
This however, also leads me to believe not much is fine right now. Maybe even beyond what we're speculating already.

Right now they have / had some troubles that is why there are complains in forum and maybe they are also currently working on a solution or just as nervous as others (or even more) because delay affects general availability and inconvenience is also not good.

...but it does not mean that generally they are in trouble, just that these are harder days for them also.

Maybe you also know the feeling when something seems to be run by its own and you are being happy that things finally started working (I mean production and shipping progress) - they are also curious what experience people have with their product anyway...

[Polaris 423]

1 hour ago, Tim6263 said:

Your criticism of me Fails on a number of points

"Do you think" - I'm not the one trying to

"if you speak with anyone..." maybe; but I'm not, should not be expected to.  My order is with F(x), & they are over-promising, & under communicating

UR very good spouting experience & hind-sight which is also unhelpful for most of us ordinary folks 😒🙁 

 

It wasn't so much a criticism as it was me trying to impart real world experiences aligning with their struggles.  I was hoping it would be helpful for you to see things from their perspective.

When I asked the question, I didn't mean only you, I meant you, as in the reader (all of us).  I know your not the one trying to; however, it's a good idea to view this (and just about everything else in life) from multiple perspectives.

I'm truly sorry you found my spouting unhelpful as my intent was for the exact opposite to occur.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Polaris

[Polaris 423]

41 minutes ago, VaZso said:

...but it does not mean that generally they are in trouble, just that these are harder days for them also.

I 100% concur with this statement.

[anonim001 105]

9 hours ago, VaZso said:

The weather is perfect - inside. 😄
Outside it is -3 Celsius now (evening here).

On Sunday I went diving to Czech Republic, the weather was perfect, but the temperature not: -3

[Guest]

Since the second batch is sent and contained only a very small number of units, I am wondering about the 3rd batch.

Do we have any info on when it will be sent?

All I find in the official fx production update email is:

"We’re working with the factory on how quickly they can get the remaining pre-order devices assembled and ready, updates will come either through us directly or a change in status to your order."

Not much.

 

[epninety 87]

1 hour ago, EskeRahn said:

This whole thread is just a variant of the discussion over there IMHO.... 😥

Until FxTec manage to deliver in quantity, this whole forum has pretty much nothing to discuss except how much and in what ways they are ****ing it up.

[EskeRahn 5,471]

I'm so sick of all this whining and blaming.... Yes their communication could clearly have been better.

Have you guys ever been involved in a company manufacturing anything complex? Do you even have a clue on what you are talking about? If you want to be sure, why did you even consider to do a pre-order rather than wait for a on-the-shelf-product? If you do not understand or can accept that things happens in a manufacturing process that is out of the manufacturers control, your are just torturing yourself by doing pre-orders.

I'm surprised that many in here can be so naïve as to expect a start-up can get things done on time, or have better esimates, when even the largest player on the market Samsung can not. Samsung said for five YEARS that their foldable device would come "next year", and Samsung got (compared to F(x)tec ) infinite more resources to draw from....

And yet the first of the Pro1s have actually already been produced and delivered. So one could claim this proves they are more competent than even Samsung....

SURE a few, and far from ALL has been delivered, but it should be obvious that the ones that mostly wish all delivered fast is F(x)tec. It clearly hurts their sales that the Pro1 did not get available in good time before Christmas, and they might not even get to that point until after (or best case very short before) Christmas.

Try to read some of the comments in this thread from people that actually knows what a manufacturing process is all about, and have done stuff themselves. Some in here have talked about what troubles Nokia could have,

[divstar 164]

Well.. I ordered mine back a month or so for 736€. And yet when connecting to my Ubuntu server via RDP from my phone yesterday I was once again reminded why there's no alternative to waiting patiently for the pro1 to arrive: keyboard input was nearly impossible.

So while I most certainly can understand the disappointment in regards to fxtec not delivering on time, I see no other way than to wait and keep the fingers crossed.

The only real other way is to ask for a refund - which apparently does work, too. But as mentioned above: it's not an option for me.

[AnnieC 115]

27 minutes ago, divstar said:

Well.. I ordered mine back a month or so for 736€. And yet when connecting to my Ubuntu server via RDP from my phone yesterday I was once again reminded why there's no alternative to waiting patiently for the pro1 to arrive: keyboard input was nearly impossible.

So while I most certainly can understand the disappointment in regards to fxtec not delivering on time, I see no other way than to wait and keep the fingers crossed.

The only real other way is to ask for a refund - which apparently does work, too. But as mentioned above: it's not an option for me.

I'm in the same situation, I had to do some work while I was traveling without my company laptop and I had no other choice but to RDP into my work computer from my MotoZ. It was hell to do even simple and small tasks with a touch screen only. From what I've seen so far the Pro1 is the exact device I would need and simply there is no alternative for me.

Edited December 4, 2019 by AnnieC

[Siani_8 105]

Personally, I pre-ordered on July 12 back when it was advertised on the site that ALL pre-orders would receive the ear buds and case only to have Erik say months later that only pre-orders by June 24 would receive the ear buds.  Though I'm still patiently waiting cause I want the phone, I feel the backpedaling on the ear buds was a very unprofessional move and honestly, they should be including them with all pre-orders as promised and even more so now with all the problems and delays.  

48 minutes ago, EskeRahn said:

 

why did you even consider to do a pre-order rather than wait for a on-the-shelf-product? 

[FlyingAntero 871]

22 hours ago, EskeRahn said:

I'm so sick of all this whining and blaming.... Yes their communication could clearly have been better.

Have you guys ever been involved in a company manufacturing anything complex? Do you even have a clue on what you are talking about? If you want to be sure, why did you even consider to do a pre-order rather than wait for a on-the-shelf-product? If you do not understand or can accept that things happens in a manufacturing process that is out of the manufacturers control, your are just torturing yourself by doing pre-orders.

I'm surprised that many in here can be so naïve as to expect a start-up can get things done on time, or have better esimates, when even the largest player on the market Samsung can not. Samsung said for five YEARS that their foldable device would come "next year", and Samsung got (compared to F(x)tec ) infinite more resources to draw from....

And yet the first of the Pro1s have actually already been produced and delivered. So one could claim this proves they are more competent than even Samsung....

SURE a few, and far from ALL has been delivered, but it should be obvious that the ones that mostly wish all delivered fast is F(x)tec. It clearly hurts their sales that the Pro1 did not get available in good time before Christmas, and they might not even get to that point until after (or best case very short before) Christmas.

Try to read some of the comments in this thread from people that actually knows what a manufacturing process is all about, and have done stuff themselves. Some in here have talked about what troubles Nokia could have,

It is easy you to say that when you have two working phones already + a toy unit to play with. It is wrong to blame us customers. And if you have followed this journey closely you might remember that Chen actually told us that they are not going to ask our money before they actually have a stock to deliver. Well, that did change during this journey. In addition, this is not first time when some of the guys behind f(x)tec are doing manufacturing business.

I still like the device though and can't wait to have it.

Edited December 5, 2019 by FlyingAntero

[matf-kabouik 414]

For what it's worth, Youyota was not related to Livermorium/F(x)tec. The guy behind Youyota was just a work contact, who got some light on TMO thanks to Liangchen who, at the time, thought the project was going to work just as we did. If I remember correctly, Liangchen actually invested money to help and has lost more than we, end customers, have. 

Edited December 4, 2019 by matf

[A Dude 99]

13 minutes ago, Siani_8 said:

 ear buds [...] they should be including them with all pre-orders as promised

But please only as opt-in. I really do not need more electronic waste (as in: what do you expect from 'free ear buds'? - probably the same junk that's being shipped with Samsung devices, or worse, what comes with Apple stuff). I think buying one for 30 bucks will probably put you already in a much higher quality-domain, than what would ever be shipped 'for free' (while good in-ear monitors set you back several hundreds of dollars..).

I do see the point for a "case from manufacturer", because device dimensions and button placement is highly device-specific, but ear buds.. IMHO there is really no point for those..

[FlyingAntero 871]

21 hours ago, matf said:

For what it's worth, Youyota was not related to Livermorium/F(x)tec. The guy behind Youyota was just a work contact, who got some light on TMO thanks to Liangchen who, at the time, thought the project was going to work just as we did. If I remember correctly, Liangchen actually invested money to help and has lost more than we, end customers, have. 

I know that Chen was just trying to help the other project by funding it. Even so, with the knowledge of these two projects before Pro1, F(x)tec should have managed things better.

It was just 3 weeks ago when Chen personally told me that I will be in the second batch. I am just so disappointed that it did not happen.

EDIT: That disappointment was pretty tough but feeling better now. I see light in the end of the tunnel 😎.

Edited December 5, 2019 by FlyingAntero